Saturday, February 2nd 2019

Metro Exodus Developer Discusses Boycott of the PC Platform for Sequels over Steam Review Bombing

Update 2: February 5th, 2019: A post on TwitLonger from the official @MetroVideoGame handle has looked to bring a more positive outlook to this whole scenario, in an attempt to bridge the gap between a lone developer's sentiment and the entire 4A Games studio. The post follows:
The recent decision to move Metro Exodus from Steam to the Epic Game Store was made by Koch Media / Deep Silver alone.

The recent comments made by a member of the 4A Games development team do not reflect Deep Silver's or 4A Games' view on the future of the franchise. They do reflect the hurt and disappointment of a passionate individual who has seen what was previously nothing but positive goodwill towards his work turn to controversy due to a business decision he had no control over. We respectfully ask that any and all valid feedback over this decision is directed at Koch Media / Deep Silver, and not the developers at 4A Games.

The future release strategy of the Metro series lies with Koch Media / Deep Silver. Our decision to partner with Epic Games was based on the goal of investing in the future of the series and our development partner at 4A Games. We have every intention of continuing this franchise, and a PC version will always be at the heart of our plans.
The entire handling of this issue has seen wrong turns of hand on all parts involved, the way this particular editor sees it (my, Ravenlord's, sole opinion and not TPU's, so as to avoid a Metro-style situation here), whether it be Valve, 4A Games, the lone developer who made the initial comments, and yes, the particular users in the Metro community that reacted too passionately, inflamming what was already a sticky situation. I, for one, will never see the justice in extrapolating one "wrong" move as a reason for bringing down either the trust or confidence in a whole team of people working hard to bring their creative vision to life. But I suppose gaming is like a relationship, in a way. You can read the original story below.

The whole Metro Exodus saga has been getting uglier as we get closer to launch date. We had reported earlier this very week how Metro Exodus had jumped over to the Epic Games Store for a timed exclusive through February 2020, with Valve and THQ Nordic putting out statements on this move. The move was clearly an unpopular one, and arguably for valid reasons too, but this then led to the mob turning against Metro 2033 and Metro: Last Light by leaving an extreme number of negative reviews on the respective Steam store pages.
We do not agree with this behavior, but neither do we condone what happened next. A user by the handle scynet on the Russian Gameinator forums claimed to be one of the developers on the Metro game franchise, and expressed disappointment, and even anger at the review bombing ongoing. Perhaps emotions took over, when he then effectively threatened that the Metro series would not come to the PC platform again, and be a console exclusive, should this behavior continue and also if PC gamers in turn decide to not buy Metro Exodus as a result of the move from Steam to the Epic Games Store. We will note here that (a) the identity of said person has not been confirmed to be an actual developer for the game, and (b) such decisions are usually in the publisher hands. Regardless, both parties are not showing their best here, and hopefully cooler heads will prevail soon.

[Update: Feb 3, 2019: TechPowerUp user birdie has provided what appears to be the most accurate translation at this time, which can be seen past the break.]

An English translation by a native Russian (TechPowerUp user birdie) is seen below.
I've watched the shit storm that gave me contradicting impressions. On the one hand, Steam withdrawal was dubious, no one before us has done this so abruptly (as far as I know). This is new and and it could have caused resentment. And also this move makes it necessary to install the Epic launcher, so it could have inconvenienced certain gamers, and caused resentment.

On the other hand a reaction of the certain category of players ("torrents" only and likewise [he meant those who pirate games]) is hardly adequate. I've got the impression that people didn't really want to play and they have been waiting for a reason to pour out bile. It turns out that we (the developers) have toiled over for years trying to create something extraordinary but a certain category of players believes that our work isn't worth two minutes of installing a new game launcher. Naturally, it's their life and right, but why do they care about Metro at all? Obviously, they are not interested. I can only say that they've never been our players, they are not interested in our work, and as a result, for example, I'm not interested in their opinion. What's the point of me (and not only me) listening to their opinion?

But! Let's take a deeper look at the situation. Someone says that having shit on Metro Exodus and other games of the series has made the world a better place and put the greedy developers in their place. For that, I can only say that, at the worst scenario if all [PC] players boycott the game, then future games, if they get released at all, certainly won't be for PC. Will it be for the better or worse, is up to you. Personally, I will be sorry for devoted fans. But it won't change my appreciation of the work done by me, my friends and co-workers. I'm absolutely certain that almost everyone who is smearing us on the internet is not capable of the tiniest part of the work already done, and I hope, is yet to be done. Which means they are totally unaware of what they are talking about.

One extra thing. Despite the fact that during development I've finished every level of the game countless times, I still love playing Metro. I've completely finished previous games of the series several times and right now when we are putting the finishing touches to the game I'm going to finish it once more. For me it's already a tradition when I finish the game right before its release. It allows to evaluate the work we've done. What am I talking about? I remember the words of Prof [some nickname presumably - no idea who this person is] which I've heard straight from him several times and also on the Internet: you must create a game for yourself, so that first and most you like it yourself. And only now I'm starting to fully understand that - no smartass will make me doubt the work we've done. And there always will be the dissatisfied.
This does not seem as feverous as initial translations make it out to be, however the underlying tones are still applicable to the same bottom line. We also are more confident now that the original poster is a verified employee of 4A Games, and likely a developer on Metro Exodus as well. He/she is no doubt passionate about the work put in to the game, and ideally recognizes that the deeds (however undeserving the review bombing of past games may be) of some members of the PC gaming community does not speak for everyone. At the same time, this does not mean that 4A Games/Koch Media/THQ Nordic/Epic Games Store are all blameless in this debacle either, just that here too the work of few is affecting the rest adversely. Sources: User 'scynet' on Gameinator Forums, TwitLonger
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288 Comments on Metro Exodus Developer Discusses Boycott of the PC Platform for Sequels over Steam Review Bombing

#176
lexluthermiester
Vayra86, post: 3987206, member: 152404"
Got numbers? All I see is noise.
How about the people in this thread?
Posted on Reply
#177
Vayra86
Minus Infinity, post: 3987015, member: 178790"
I'd be more sympathetic if EA were actually trying to give STEAM real competition and thus helping improve STEAM as well. Competition is good for consumers and businesses. This is just EA trying to undercut STEAM but in no way improve the model. Consumers will lose out in the end. Metro should have been on both services and let the market decide where they want to purchase the game. You can't say it's coming to STEAM and take pre-orders and then screw people over because you found a better deal. If they had never announced it was coming to STEAM in the first place they wouldn't be in this shit storm. I won't be using EA's store ever.
This isnt about EA. ;)

lexluthermiester, post: 3987211, member: 134537"
How about the people in this thread?
That is noise, not a sales number. I think a lot of people here are not quite as strict as they say they are. Same as Reddit et al. Thats why its called vocal minority. Those same people that already have five launchers installed.. so much for principles ey ;)
Posted on Reply
#178
Manu_PT
phanbuey, post: 3986476, member: 45008"
It's not about the platform -- it's about exclusivity. The whole " you can ONLY buy it here" that EA, EPIC and others are trying to push.

Just because a Chinese company threw some money at these guys now the gamers who bought it from steam HAVE to download epic game launcher and HAVE to use the EPIC launcher which already got hacked twice.

Enjoy having that running on your computer.

Honestly if they want to publish their FPS for console only, good luck to them. I'm not buying this game until it comes to Steam.
PC gamers are such cry babies, unbelievable. I bet they would still make loads of money with console only versions. You guys are toxic as f but in the end you´re all playing counter strike or dota.
Posted on Reply
#179
Shambles1980
they wont boycott pc.
gamers wont boycott the game though some may wait for it to come out on steam.
personally im happy just to wait for it it to come out on steam..
yes you can argue "whats an extra installer." but i have amazon prime which gives me free games with twitch. I don't use that launcher even for free games.

Most of my games are on steam, and i dont plan to use a diferent launcher to add to the mix anytime soon. So i understand why people are angry given they did state it would be on steam at launch then changed their mind.

Now i understand steam charges quite a bit more for devs/publishers and so steam needs to make things better for them.
But that's not my problem. epic may be making guarantees of sales figures which they will cover if sales are not hit to try and get more publishers to use them exclusively (think that's anti competitive to be honest but im not a laywer, and havent seen any actual contracts or the wording in them) Again not my problem.

now i am a consumer and i don't want more launchers. i stoped using origin, and the blizzard one i also never used the uplay one, and the Bethesda one can go whistle hell i dont even have the windows store on my windows 10 and i dont use the twitch one which has lots of free games.
The only launcher i allow to start is steam, so that is my problem. and im happy with it, if they want me to buy their game it needs to come on steam.

Review bombing is a bit shitty to be fair, but it has become a way for people to voice their displeasure with publishers/devs choices. I genuinly dont agree with it but given pc gamer boycots just dont work because gamers want to game so they buy the game any way then this is what happens.

so for me it either comes out on steam where i have all my games or it does not.
I will even buy games on steam i already have for free on twitch because its easier for me.
there is a reason why I tunes became so massive and combated so much of music piracy, "it was a single easy to access platform" if you start spliting things up in to other needed launchers making the process of getting the game harder or more annoying then people will just find other means.

Epic does have one thing going for it though. it has pretty much every teen gamer already in their pocket due to fortnight. (a free game i only played like 3-4 times because well its an extra launcher and it genuinly inst that good) but they do have it so thats a massive player base they have there..

IMO
ball is in steams court. And im not changing from steam unless epic will port all my steam games to the epic launcher for free.
Posted on Reply
#180
Valantar
I have to applaud any effort to break up Steam's de facto monopoly, frankly. Even if their competitor is an industry giant like Epic - it's not like Valve is an underdog, after all. Would I much rather that a smaller competitor like GOG make it big? Sure, absolutely. But a duopoly is still better than a monopoly, and at least Epic has the clout to actually make a dent in Steam's dominance. Gamers ought to be thankful for any and all efforts to diversify this market. While the timing of this is absolutely an issue, it's not like they're refusing to honor Steam pre-orders or barring people ordering on Steam from getting DLC or anything like that. And I would be shocked if this affected multiplayer in any way.

As for this post, I think it's entirely reasonable. Why on earth should gamers care what installer/launcher they use? As long as it doesn't lack crucial features or have an egregious EULA, I don't see any issues with having more than one, even if there is a slight inconvenience in having a bunch of launchers - that's better than a monopoly. And if people attack the developer, including their previous work, for such a spurious and nonsensical reason as this, well, I wouldn't be surprised if the developer chose not to focus their efforts on serving this audience the next time around. Why would they, if all they're going to get is abuse for reasons that don't relate to the actual game itself? The way I read this, it's not at all a threat, but a reasonably measured response to an absurd and offensive situation.
Posted on Reply
#181
lexluthermiester
Vayra86, post: 3987220, member: 152404"
That is noise, not a sales number. I think a lot of people here are not quite as strict as they say they are. Same as Reddit et al. Thats why its called vocal minority. Those same people that already have five launchers installed.. so much for principles ey ;)
Or people actually do what they say. Example, I have one installed client; Steam. But I buy most of my game titles on GOG. I rarely use Steam.

While I try out all the other client platforms, it is done only to see what they're like and how they work so that I can render an informed opinion. Having said that, beyond the scope of being inquisitive, they were swiftly deleted from my test system. Most people don't go to those measures and just don't use what they don't like regardless of how good a game is.

Valantar, post: 3987238, member: 171585"
Would I much rather that a smaller competitor like GOG make it big? Sure, absolutely.
Completely agree!
Valantar, post: 3987238, member: 171585"
even if there is a slight inconvenience in having a bunch of launchers
That all start with your system when it boots up and stay running in the background. That's a bit more than a "slight inconvenience" as it can kill system resources.
Posted on Reply
#182
rtwjunkie
PC Gaming Enthusiast
bajs11, post: 3987188, member: 171095"
well people here in the West should be boycotting Russian products after their attempts to manipulate elections in several western countries
so yeah no more Metro games for me at least
Except 4A isn’t Russian. :rolleyes:
Posted on Reply
#183
RoutedScripter
If that's a real Metro developer posting there, there is a point about gamers being lazy for a 2 minutes store install. Average non-computer savvy gamers are notorious for being very sissy-like, a lot of people I knew and played PC games with back in the old young days I had to constantly bother with very super lazy people who were not lazy in real life, they just took everything on a computer as a BIG TIRING CHORE. I used to install 5 games and 10 programs and do all kinds of stuff on a PC while some of my friends barely had the patience to install one game or make an account, so these slow boring slobs are absolutely REAL out there, and it's mostly children who probably eat sugary snacks and fast food all day makes their brain rot out, no wonder.

However, here's the reflection, the fans decision to reviewbomb and boycott is as ridicolous as the publisher's decision to abruptly switch to store exclusivity, so in a sense they were asking for it, made a stupid decision and got a stupid response, especially as it already was being pre-sold on Steam. This decision was infact absolutely insane from a customer point of view, it would make it far more understandable if the decision was made prior the game started selling on Steam, ofcourse technically there was no deal with Steam violated, so in some way it's somehow justified to have an insane response, an eye for an eye I guess, even tho I do not promote it.

What the gamers should do is to basically demand from EPIC to get support and continue work on the store before launch, voice the opinion on Epic forums to get things done and provide feedback, it has barely launched, gamers are also notorious for having little idea of how software is developed and the logistics around that, it's not a small deal to run a digital game store, steam didn't release fully featured, blizzard battle net didn't relase fully featured.

The announcement could have been that the next game would move to Epic Store, or that DLC would only be on Epic Store. This is some kind of weird greed that, who the heck is running THQ Nordic or Deep Silver, the acquisition of Deep Silver is also fishy, wasn't Deep Silver who bought Metro IP from the defunct and supposably dead THQ ?!?! I was deeply following that story.

Now I figured it out myself, THQ Nordic is a completely different company that bought the dead THQ brand/trandemark, it should be noted in an update or something.
Posted on Reply
#184
ne6togadno
lexluthermiester, post: 3987240, member: 134537"
That all start with your system when it boots up and stay running in the background. That's a bit more than a "slight inconvenience" as it can kill system resources.
invalid argument.
steam, origin, upaly, gog galaxy, battlent launcher (havent tried epic launcher yet) all have the option "start when pc start" that can be disabled. in fact this is first thing that is turned off when i install all those launchers and no launcher is alowed to reside on my pc if this option cannot be turned off (valid also for music/video players, tramspeack, discord and all other tones of softwere "require" to run on your pc all the time).
it is me who deside what start when how long it stay running and when it is closed.
Posted on Reply
#185
RoutedScripter
rtwjunkie, post: 3987249, member: 56774"
Except 4A isn’t Russian. :rolleyes:
Well actually that's technically right but it may be only on paper today, if we were going into that stuff deeply just so you guys don't forget that the whole area is mixed good around there, by actual population Crimea is overwhelmingly Russian (and official now), most of south and east today's Ukraine is mostly Russian people, so it's a huge gray area, many of the devs might have family in today's Russia, they may be living in more than 1 place even, my schoolmate who was Ukrainian but had half the family in Russia, so they're traveling back and forth constantly over there.

Lastly, Kiev was a capital city of what was supposably a precursor to the precursors of Russia like over 1000 years ago, the Kievan Rus'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus'
So there you go.

Posted on Reply
#186
DeathtoGnomes
ne6togadno, post: 3987269, member: 130089"
invalid argument.
steam, origin, upaly, gog galaxy, battlent launcher (havent tried epic launcher yet) all have the option "start when pc start" that can be disabled. in fact this is first thing that is turned off when i install all those launchers and no launcher is alowed to reside on my pc if this option cannot be turned off (valid also for music/video players, tramspeack, discord and all other tones of softwere "require" to run on your pc all the time).
it is me who deside what start when how long it stay running and when it is closed.
I am the same, nothing launches with windows, but I use my desktop for other things besides games and during those times I cant have a game launcher running.
Posted on Reply
#187
Valantar
lexluthermiester, post: 3987240, member: 134537"
That all start with your system when it boots up and stay running in the background. That's a bit more than a "slight inconvenience" as it can kill system resources.
I have a 6c12t CPU and 16GB of RAM. I've never seen RAM usage above 12 GB except when I'm using Adobe Premiere. Even though the Windows scheduler is rather poor, I don't think this'll cause any slowdown to speak of. Sure, it's likely measurable even on systems with this high a core count, but noticeable? I doubt it.

Personally, I only let Steam start when my PC starts, as that's my most used launcher (no wonder, seeing how I've been using it more or less since launch), but I have GOG Galaxy, Origin, Uplay, and recently also the Epic launcher installed, and use them when wanted/needed. The only inconvenience/annoyance is the need to update launchers when it's been a while since I've used them.

RuskiSnajper, post: 3987282, member: 66408"
Well actually that's technically right but it may be only on paper today, if we were going into that stuff deeply just so you guys don't forget that the whole area is mixed good around there, by actual population Crimea is overwhelmingly Russian (and official now), most of south and east today's Ukraine is mostly Russian people, so it's a huge gray area, many of the devs might have family in today's Russia, they may be living in more than 1 place even, my schoolmate who was Ukrainian but had half the family in Russia, so they're traveling back and forth constantly over there.

Lastly, Kiev was a capital city of what was supposably a precursor to the precursors of Russia like over 1000 years ago, the Kievan Rus'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus'
So there you go.


Just like the border between Germany and Poland is largely illusory, as is the German-French border, etc., etc.. Where ever there are borders that aren't drawn along natural barriers to migration, people have moved across, back and forth, as long as there have been people there to do so. That's humanity for you. As such, claiming that "Crimea is really Russian" or "Ukraine is really Russian" is an absurd claim, as neither of those current countries/areas are the same as whatever previous entity might have occupied/claimed those lands previously. That's just selective reading of history. If anything, the Kievan Rus' being centered around Kiev does kind of underscore how the Russia of today is a modern construct, no? Pretty much all countries are.

Tl;dr: nation states are largely arbitrary constructs that have ever less value in a modern, connected, global society, and clinging to outdated and illusory ideas of nationalism is harmful to everyone involved. Please stop.
Posted on Reply
#188
BorgOvermind
Sad to see that various arguments lead to the result of games going away from PC.

P.S. Crimea status is irrelevant since Ukraine came to existence out of nothing. Of course each side in a situation like this will quote only the part of the historic time-line that favors them, so I suggest such debates are left for other-than-tech boards.

@[USER=171585]Valantar[/USER] - Nation states are no more. They exist only on paper and are lead by th same world oppressors. Want to check if that's correct ? Try finding out how many countries still have independent banks. The answer is 3 and decreasing.
Posted on Reply
#189
sepheronx
RuskiSnajper, post: 3987282, member: 66408"
Well actually that's technically right but it may be only on paper today, if we were going into that stuff deeply just so you guys don't forget that the whole area is mixed good around there, by actual population Crimea is overwhelmingly Russian (and official now), most of south and east today's Ukraine is mostly Russian people, so it's a huge gray area, many of the devs might have family in today's Russia, they may be living in more than 1 place even, my schoolmate who was Ukrainian but had half the family in Russia, so they're traveling back and forth constantly over there.

Lastly, Kiev was a capital city of what was supposably a precursor to the precursors of Russia like over 1000 years ago, the Kievan Rus'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus'
So there you go.


While I applaud you for having knowledge of my people, A4 games is actually based not in Ukraine anymore. It is in Malta. They left because of 2014 coup.
Posted on Reply
#190
Valantar
BorgOvermind, post: 3987299, member: 89504"
Sad to see that various arguments lead to the result of games going away from PC.

P.S. Crimea status is irrelevant since Ukraine came to existence out of nothing. Of course each side in a situation like this will quote only the part of the historic time-line that favors them, so I suggest such debates are left for other-than-tech boards.

@[USER=171585]Valantar[/USER] - Nation states are no more. They exist only on paper and are lead by th same world oppressors. Want to check if that's correct ? Try finding out how many countries still have independent banks. The answer is 3 and decreasing.
Well, a lot of their bad sides (xenophobia, war-mongering, etc.) still linger, but on the other hand, we've mostly only gotten the bad sides of supranational society too (largely thanks to nation states refusing to cede power to any official supragovernmental organization, so instead they cede power to global corporations where the people have zero influence instead of some. Smart, that.). Global politics and governance is fun. Yay.

Back to the topic, though:
sepheronx, post: 3987300, member: 16941"
While I applaud you for having knowledge of my people, A4 games is actually based not in Ukraine anymore. It is in Malta. They left because of 2014 coup.
They moved their HQ, but not the development team - their Kiev office is still the main development office. If they moved for political reasons, the notorious tax haven of Malta was an ... odd choice. Sure sounds like there might have been another motive behind that.


The more I read about this, the more I'm struck by the absurdity of people calling for boycotts of a developer not for limiting their game to one online store, but for limiting their game to one online store that isn't their chosen one. Principled? Not quite. At least they're not even trying to camouflage this as something more than sheer, blind fanboyism. Even if Steam is a good, feature-rich platform (it ought to be, after 15 years in development), people are quite blind to their own best interests if they're actually campaigning for games to always be on Steam. What has Valve done to deserve this good will? Are people actually claiming that Valve has done anything worthwhile with their massive hoard of wealth? 'Cause I can't see it - and thus they might do well with a kick in the shin, so to speak.
Posted on Reply
#191
rtwjunkie
PC Gaming Enthusiast
RuskiSnajper, post: 3987282, member: 66408"
Well actually that's technically right but it may be only on paper today, if we were going into that stuff deeply just so you guys don't forget that the whole area is mixed good around there, by actual population Crimea is overwhelmingly Russian (and official now), most of south and east today's Ukraine is mostly Russian people, so it's a huge gray area, many of the devs might have family in today's Russia, they may be living in more than 1 place even, my schoolmate who was Ukrainian but had half the family in Russia, so they're traveling back and forth constantly over there.

Lastly, Kiev was a capital city of what was supposably a precursor to the precursors of Russia like over 1000 years ago, the Kievan Rus'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus'
So there you go.


Yep, I was aware of that. Just trying to keep it simple for him.
Posted on Reply
#192
RoutedScripter
Valantar, post: 3987286, member: 171585"
As such, claiming that "Crimea is really Russian" is an absurd claim.

Tl;dr: nation states are largely arbitrary constructs that have ever less value in a modern, connected, global society, and clinging to outdated and illusory ideas of nationalism is harmful to everyone involved. Please stop.
You are misunderstanding the post. You should have read the first statement "if were were to dig into that nationality stuff deeply". You are technically correct but you are twisting it and putting it on me as if I was for one or the other. I'm explaining the reality currently in place and in practice and in history. However there are many more sides you can look at this.

Universally there is no ownership of anything, there's no inherency, but that's how it would be in the perfect world, but in practice every living thing on the planet has it's own corner and enforces ownership, and everyone would need to reach extremely high levels of understanding and philosophy close to achieveing some kind of enlightenment for all of them to live in peace without borders and move around freely, which very hard to achieve in practice with so many people and so many views and experiences in life as well as deep-rooted beliefs, it's just nearly impossible, so your apparently leftist ideas aren't correct because you would have to became the same that you are supposably fighting against, to do this impossible task you'll either have to mindcontrol or destroy everyone to make them "understand".

In the EU we're seeing the results of "unification", that it actually downgrates the value of individual cultures and morphs into one, everyone who tricked by the unification now calls themselfs "proud european", isn't this downward, isn't this backward, replacing 50x European difference and diverse cultures with just one? All this inclusiveness is actually destryoing the diversity they're claiming to be protecting.

That said, you seemed to go way out with the last paragraph, nobody in the universe has the right to decide for every only living being how they must live and in what conditions and dictate them they have to be "connected" and "global". I am obviously not promoting barbarism and nationalism in the conquest sense, where the group is greedy for more land and wants to take over more and more endlessly, there are MANY TYPES of nationalism and your first big mistake is putting them all in one bunch. Your supposable idea that borders are just "illusions of the past" is your own subjective opinion (or illusion) as well, you are not any more different, you have an idea or a vision which is not any less radical than the radical nationalism.

Here's an example: My house is my property, and I regard it as my property based on the work/effort/time I spent building it, it doesn't bother anyone nor do anyone harm, I decided that you are not allowed inside, I will enforce my ownership and rules with my life if necessary, that's the choice I made and I'm ready to live with the consequences, so now you have a choice to acknowledge/respect that decision and leave me alone, or you can try to enforce your idea of "everyone should live with ethernet cord sticked up their butt and have to smell 10 other feet in an inclusive bedroom every night" but because I'm not a sissy that gets folled by the modern information and perception based warfare, I will not budge and the only way you would be able to get inside would be to destroy me. owever, if you leave me alone, most likely I will leave you alone too, so who's the one looking for a fight around here? That's pretty much the summary of whats happening in the world, sure there are some bad nationalist dictators, but many are being falsely accused and it's their right to defend themsefls.

You think you can take over a country/tribe/groupofpeople by just comparing one of their leaders with Hitler, you thought we would drop our pants that easy? Bwahaha

And I didn't want to debate this, I wanted to mention it only as a side thing. The last thing we need is anyone boycotting anything Russian or Ukrainian or Maltian around Metro Exodus. Who the heck even came up with the idea.
Posted on Reply
#193
64K
I'm not going to boycott a Studio or Publisher over where they decide to put their game but I will wait a couple of years for Epic to prove that they will keep their site up and running well and that the store will be secure. I waited a couple of years before signing up for Steam and did the same for Origin. I don't really want yet another account but it is inevitable I guess that all of the big Publishers will do it. Bethesda will probably make the next Elder Scrolls exclusive to their site as well.

Edit: This review bombing stunt on Steam is why I don't bother reading reviews there or on Metacritic. Sometimes people slam a game for no good reason just because they have a grudge against the Developer or Publisher. There is no sensible reason at all to slam Metro 2033 or Last Light due to Exodus being exclusively on the Epic Store for a while. Those are both very good games imo. It's just childish to review bomb those 2 games for that reason.
Posted on Reply
#194
RoutedScripter
Valantar, post: 3987324, member: 171585"
Well, a lot of their bad sides (xenophobia, war-mongering, etc.) still linger, but on the other hand, we've mostly only gotten the bad sides of supranational society too (largely thanks to nation states refusing to cede power to any official supragovernmental organization, so instead they cede power to global corporations where the people have zero influence instead of some. Smart, that.). Global politics and governance is fun. Yay.
Remember, if we all agree, when you are born you simply randomly show up with no inherent ownership of anything, there is none, you roam the natural world for search of resources to survive. Unless artificially provided (Royalty, Family, etc) there is none right.

So that same thing should go for these global organizations who are assuming they have control over everything else, who the heck do they think they are they can dictate to tribes/groups/countries to "respect migration law". What law? It's not our law right? Unless we agree and sign it we aren't part of it, we don't have to respect it. It's like aliens came from another planet and told us to do this or that, so we're just going to pull pants down and surrender?

Remember independent countries/groups may be close together geographically, but if they have no treaties(contracts) between them, under the law (in this case no law exists between them) there is technically zero requrement for any acknowledgment between them to do as either one says, a country doesn't even have to acknowledge other one's existance/borders, they can just mark it as , not technically, it is only in good heart and good faith that you respect other entities/countries and acknowledge their existance, but there is no universal law that requires you to do that. The proximity/geolocation is just a coincidence, it's the same as if independent tribes/groups/countries were 100 light years apart on a different planet.

Same way goes for ..., there is no law in the universe made by nature that tells you that you have to provide house/food/water for any living being in need. You do it only from your good faith and good heart and only IF YOU HAVE A SURPLUS TO SPARE. Nobody has a right to DEMAND help and nobody has a duty/requirement to RESPECT that demand, help comes if it can, unfortunately it's random, it goes by luck, you and others being in the right place at the right time doing the right things, circumstances, and nobody has a right to dictate the circumstances for that to happen either.

But you can't just IMPOSE some made up vision on people that never agreed to be part of your idea. Which is correct, that's why they hiddenly get control of countries leaders to sign up to these treaties so that when people finally figure out what happend, they can give them the answer: "Well that's what your leaders signed up for 50 years ago."

And one big important point: Nobody has to respect UN/EU laws if they don't want to, nobody has to respect any laws of anyone else, if they don't both agree to each other, laws/treaties are form of contracts, if you're not a party to the contract it does not apply to you, we all understand that right, but in practice as I said with the "MY HOUSE" example, in practice the EU/NATO might destroy you if you don't do how they want, so here's my question: how is that TOLERANT ?!?!? And that's how you figure out they're just one more group out of many groups in the universe who are conquerors, but they cleverly use psychological operations, the "tolerance" trick and "help da children" guise for their domination.

There's nothing bad about being good to someone who's in need of assistance to survive, nobody's even against this, never was, it's just that this is being abused by bad guys who act as good guys, the genuine good guys NEED to figure this out. The imposters who are benefiting from all of this "free help" are all for the oppoite goal they're claiming to be, that's the ultimate problem the helpful group doesn't get, that they're being hugely fooled and exploited by these imposters.

Okay I made my point, back to Metro now.
largely thanks to nation states refusing to cede power to any official supragovernmental organization
Yeah but they're not required to by any law in the universe. It's not their problem, only from your viewpoint. Legally you can't do much other than wage warfare, even if we all disagree with them and their practices, and that's the unfortunate reality of the universe, every kind is going to find a corner for themselfs and there is no one that is right, anyone that tries to enforce it's rules on everyone will become a tyrant.

One day some Aliens could come and promote themselfs as higher-level than the "supragovernmental organizations", from their point of view they would look at your quote and pretty much say the same you just said "Well the problem is here that planet Earth just won't cede power to our solar dominion, these supragovernmental organizations are just so in deep in the illusory past".

So you see this can go round and round forever, always someone more powerful, or importantly, someone acting more powerful, comes around and assumes control and starts propagating "how this is bad how it's old we have to replace it bla bla bla". It can be correct, but it can equally be someone posing as fair who's using just another classic military trick.

If you think truly you are doing best you can and you think you can defend your property then you can simply say to the Aliens: KTHXBYE and watch the radar screens for any missile launches or laser blasts. Reality 101. Then it's all about information, you will be confident to just say KTHXBYE to themif you believe you're more powerful to what they have, they will attack if they feel they can defeat all of your your secret weapons and bases, they will not attack if they know they will lose, but they might attack and lose, if they didn't knew about the secret weapons. (but this is a quick summary)

Did someone say it's all about information? Aren't so many corporations providing "FREE" stuff in exchange for your "usage reporting", oh gee what do we have here.

Telemetry (read: Military Intelligence) in various software is an extremely insulting term the corporations are using, because usually telemetry was something only NASA (etc) had with their SPACE PROBES which are soul-less robots, so basically these corporations see you as mindless consumers who report their telemetry back to them as if they own you and your life.
Posted on Reply
#195
Ferrum Master
Godwin's law is triggered, this thread should end. Leave politics aside. Especially Russian and Ukraine war.

Once again, most are kinda off the reality, how things work in real life.

Developer has no right to express public his view as company representative, without coordinating with upper CEO, sales management. It is like a janitor starts to bumble how things should be made at CERN. It's plain and totally wrong. He must do his job coding or designing the game, selling and marketing is left for other positions in the company. He should be scolded or fired for such actions, as it taints the franchise. It is a product they sell. It ain't pennies, but near million, it involves many people. This cannot be taken seriously. Calm down everyone. It is just one person.

It looks like scripted, even the reviews at steam, it could be set up to make steam look like that. Knowing all that. Someone is financially interested and paid making all this fuss. Losers are 4A and Steam from this both, so look elsewhere.

Acting like dumb sheeps.
Posted on Reply
#196
phanbuey
Manu_PT, post: 3987227, member: 168799"
PC gamers are such cry babies, unbelievable. I bet they would still make loads of money with console only versions. You guys are toxic as f but in the end you´re all playing counter strike or dota.
How is that toxic - in what way is not supporting exclusive distribution toxic? Or are you just spouting off what you hear without any evidence?

Counterstrike and Dota huh? Ok.

Enjoy buying your 8 future consoles just so you can play the games you want because publishers/developers arbitrarily go exclusive.
Posted on Reply
#197
Gungar
natr0n, post: 3986473, member: 102496"
If you were a dev you would want to make the most profit possible to insure you will still have a studio for new games.

To jump on a new platform offered backed by a powerhouse in the industry is only logical.

People love to slander others for any reason.

The mentality of this generation is so corrupted it is unfathomable.
The only corrupted mind here is yours if you can't see how this stupidity is anti consumer.
Posted on Reply
#198
RoutedScripter
Ferrum Master, post: 3987348, member: 90058"
Developer has no right to express public his view as company representative, without coordinating with upper CEO, sales management. It is like a janitor starts to bumble how things should be made at CERN. It's plain and totally wrong. He must do his job coding or designing the game, selling and marketing is left for other positions in the company. He should be scolded or fired for such actions, as it taints the franchise. It is a product they sell. It ain't pennies, but near million, it involves many people. This cannot be taken seriously. Calm down everyone. It is just one person.

It looks like scripted, even the reviews at steam, it could be set up to make steam look like that. Knowing all that. Someone is financially interested and paid making all this fuss. Losers are 4A and Steam from this both, so look elsewhere.

Acting like dumb sheeps.
Indeed, it gets into the legal stuff whether or not he's allowed or not from expressing those views, there is confidentiality, but there's other anti-corruption and whistleblower laws so it gets complicated.

The no-right is only internal between the employess of the company in that case, I would assume. But wait a minute, you don't know the actual contract, nobody does, some companies have more relaxed policy than others, so don't jump to conclusions.

That said, if the person is a real developer and the company does not stand behind those claims, it's just whatever, it's the same subjective opinion as if someone random said it on the street,, in true fairness any action by fans against the whole company on the game based on an unofficial and personal opinion would be unjustified. Gamers wouldn't win in court using tha persons opinion as argument if that's not the official stance of the company.

Ferrum Master, post: 3987348, member: 90058"
Godwin's law is triggered, this thread should end. Leave politics aside. Especially Russian and Ukraine war.

Once again, most are kinda off the reality, how things work in real life.
Every thread has more or less natural possibility to derail, where evolved people are present those derails can naturally rerail themselfs, but it also takes some patience, so there's 2 factors, and in many other places re-rails would eventually happen if it weren't for the impatience.
Posted on Reply
#199
sepheronx
Valantar, post: 3987286, member: 171585"
Just like the border between Germany and Poland is largely illusory, as is the German-French border, etc., etc.. Where ever there are borders that aren't drawn along natural barriers to migration, people have moved across, back and forth, as long as there have been people there to do so. That's humanity for you. As such, claiming that "Crimea is really Russian" or "Ukraine is really Russian" is an absurd claim, as neither of those current countries/areas are the same as whatever previous entity might have occupied/claimed those lands previously. That's just selective reading of history. If anything, the Kievan Rus' being centered around Kiev does kind of underscore how the Russia of today is a modern construct, no? Pretty much all countries are.

Tl;dr: nation states are largely arbitrary constructs that have ever less value in a modern, connected, global society, and clinging to outdated and illusory ideas of nationalism is harmful to everyone involved. Please stop.
Except modern Ukraine is really a construct of what was given by the USSR
RuskiSnajper, post: 3987338, member: 66408"
You are misunderstanding the post. You should have read the first statement "if were were to dig into that nationality stuff deeply". You are technically correct but you are twisting it and putting it on me as if I was for one or the other. I'm explaining the reality currently in place and in practice and in history. However there are many more sides you can look at this.

Universally there is no ownership of anything, there's no inherency, but that's how it would be in the perfect world, but in practice every living thing on the planet has it's own corner and enforces ownership, and everyone would need to reach extremely high levels of understanding and philosophy close to achieveing some kind of enlightenment for all of them to live in peace without borders and move around freely, but beign unified doesn't that actually destroy the diversity of various cultures, which very hard to achieve, if not impossible, your leftist ways aren't correct and you'll either have to mindcontrol or destroy everyone to make them "understand".

All this inclusiveness is actually destryoing diversity they're claiming to be protecting.

That said, you seemed to go way out with the last paragraph, nobody in the universe has the right to decide for every only living being how they must live and in what conditions and dictate them they have to be "connected" and "global". I am obviously not promoting barbarism and nationalism in the conquest sense, where the group is greedy for more land and wants to take over more and more endlessly, there are MANY TYPES of nationalism and your first big mistake is putting them all in one bunch. Your supposable idea that borders are just "illusions of the past" is your own subjective opinion (or illusion) as well, you are not any more different, you have an idea or a vision which is not any less radical than the radical nationalism.
Here's an example: My house is my property, and I regard it as my property based on the work/effort/time I spent building it, it doesn't bother anyone nor do anyone harm, I decided that you are not allowed inside, I will enforce my ownership and rules with my life if necessary, that's the choice I made and I'm ready to live with the consequences, so now you have a choice to acknowledge/respect that decision and leave me alone, or you can try to enforce your idea of "everyone should live with ethernet cord sticked up their butt and have to smell 10 other feet in an inclusive bedroom every night" but because I'm not a sissy that gets folled by the modern information and perception based warfare, I will not budge and the only way you would be able to get inside would be to destroy me. owever, if you leave me alone, most likely I will leave you alone too, so who's the one looking for a fight around here? That's pretty much the summary of whats happening in the world, sure there are some bad nationalist dictators, but many are being falsely accused and it's their right to defend themsefls.

You think you can take over a country/tribe/groupofpeople by just comparing one of their leaders with Hitler, you thought we would drop our pants that easy? Bwahaha

And I didn't want to debate this, I wanted to mention it only as a side thing. The last thing we need is anyone boycotting anything Russian or Ukrainian or Maltian around Metro Exodus. Who the heck even came up with the idea.
You quoting the wrong dude man.
Posted on Reply
#200
RoutedScripter
sepheronx, post: 3987383, member: 16941"
You quoting the wrong dude man.
Fixed, I had some issues with multi-quote and back and forth.
Posted on Reply
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