Wednesday, February 17th 2021

Bitcoin Breaks $50,000 Barrier, Hitting the Highest Value Ever

Cryptocurrency has in the past few years gained a lot of popularity, mostly fueled by Bitcoin's rapid growth and its massive price increasing over time. Today, Bitcoin, the world's leading cryptocurrency, has managed to make history and broke the record of 50,000 USD. As of now, on February 17th at 07:00 UTC, Bitcoin has reached 50,452.60 USD value. What is driving the price up you must wonder? It is the market adoption of the currency. Tesla Inc. has invested 1.5 billion USD in Bitcoin as it intends to accept it as payment for its products. Next up is Mastercard, which is preparing to support cryptocurrency on its network. In addition to Mastercard, Apple is also preparing its services for cryptocurrency payments. Right now, the market cap of Bitcoin is $935,359,977,182 at the time of writing, just shy of one trillion USD.
Source: TweakTown
Add your own comment

94 Comments on Bitcoin Breaks $50,000 Barrier, Hitting the Highest Value Ever

#51
hv43082
What I read is "RIP gamers. No more GPU for you ever."
Posted on Reply
#52
PowerPC
Valantar
I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post, but that initial statement needs a continuation: "it's just that those potential uses are extremely few and far between." Given that the entire premise of the system is increasing difficulty over time, inefficiency is built into it, so the level of security provided becomes moot. The main "useful" use presented has been secure transactions, but that falls apart once you get to the point of "thank you for your purchase, your transaction will be approved in approximately three weeks once our crypto farm in China has processed the secure transaction and provides the proof of purchase. Have a nice three weeks!" Which won't take long, given how these systems are designed. Any system with that level of built-in inefficiency is inherently useless.

I'll admit it did hurt my brain a bit to see that collection of false equivalencies and straw men thrown up as if they represented an argument, but overall I wasn't hurt, thankfully, just baffled at the level of delusion. It's also rather telling that you, rather than presenting actual counterarguments or following up on your "points" jump to "sorry I hurt you". It's almost as if there's no substance behind your claims... :rolleyes:
I'm going to just quote this comment because most of the other comments in this thread are just surface-level calling crypto a "Ponzi scheme" without actual facts or knowledge behind it. If you think it's a Ponzi scheme and that's it, I have nothing to tell you. You might just as well believe in conspiracy theories or fairy tales then.

This comment here actually makes some claims. But these claims also happen not to be true. Otherwise, I would have said total bullshit but I'm in a good mood. Where in the hell did you hear that it takes "three weeks" to transfer Bitcoin? And what does it even have to do with crypto farms in China???? Bitcoin transfers take 10 minutes at most! And that's literally anywhere around the whole damn world. Show me a bank that will transfer your money anywhere in the world in 10 minutes?! Yea, if you want to talk about efficiencies, there is no match for crypto! Mining is just the process of making new crypto. It has nothing to do with transferring it from A to B. I can't even imagine where this connection in your mind comes from besides a very bad understanding of crypto. Yes, mining is inefficient. blabla, whatever. But once you have the coins, there is no system that is more secure and efficient for exchanging currency between two individuals than crypto. Full stop on that.

The other part of crypto and especially Bitcoin is the value it has in terms of investment. Bitcoin is the new gold in many ways. I would even say it's the evolution of gold. Gold isn't actually limited in supply as many people like to claim. Bitcoin is. People never questioned the inherent value of gold for thousands of years even though its utilitarian value is very limited. It has a value beyond its utilitarian value. That's just the way it is and some things are just like that. Nobody questioned it before because maybe they owned some gold or didn't care to look into it enough. But Bitcoin can actually be seen as digital gold just without many of the inefficiencies that gold brings like where you can store it (and who you can trust to store it for you). Bitcoin removes all that and lets you store it in your own virtual wallet that nobody can steal from you, not even the government. You can just claim that you forgot the password or whatever and they literally can't do anything. Have fun burying your Gold in the woods and hoping nobody finds it.... Yes, some people actually do that. So yes, Bitcoin just made Gold digital, even if you don't want to use it as a currency. Most of the people here are just angry they didn't mine/buy this stuff when it was pennies on the dollar and now have to cry about it. Grow up! And really, what's so damn bad about some tech-savvy individuals getting rich off of this? Is it better to leave everything to the 1%??? Alternatives are always good. And I can imagine there were also a lot of really poor geeky people who are now filthy rich. The horror, right? I really don't get all this crying about having alternatives.
Posted on Reply
#53
R-T-B
Vya Domus
It's not considered or used as a currency, never has and probably never will be.
It is in some places, and the very article you just quoted points out Mastercard is preparing to accept it on it's network.

I think you just need to get up to speed.
Valantar
You mean organized crime beat them to the punch? That's probably true, money laundering is one of the major uses of crypto after all.
According to the studies I have seen, it's not even a minor use case.
Vya Domus
And lastly, I can buy exactly jack shit with crypto where
That's going to change then if you are in a place that accepts mastercard. Also, I assume you have paypal? Then you can buy with crypto.
Posted on Reply
#54
PowerPC
Vya Domus
And lastly, I can buy exactly jack shit with crypto where I live and I doubt this is any different in 99.99% of places.
Complains that he can't buy anything with crypto. Also complains that big companies like Tesla are now taking it as payment and investing in it. :kookoo::sleep:
Posted on Reply
#55
Vya Domus
R-T-B
It is in some places, and the very article you just quoted points out Mastercard is preparing to accept it on it's network.

That's going to change then if you are in a place that accepts mastercard. Also, I assume you have paypal? Then you can buy with crypto.
I have to see some sort of payments breakdown of different kinds of currencies to be convinced crypto is actually being used in any significant manner.
Posted on Reply
#56
fullinfusion
Vanguard Beta Tester
PooPipeBoy
How is bitcoin considered a valid currency when the value is going up and down like a whore's drawers?
Elon Musk has stated he's accepting Bitcoin to purchase his Tesla Cars.. He obviously knows whats going on and why the market has shot up. This guy knows what's up don't you think?

The end times state One world currency, And chips to be implanted into everyone. Covid PPL? What ya think is up with forced vaccines? Tin foil hat is on :pimp:
Posted on Reply
#57
Valantar
boulard83
There are over 8000 cryptos right now, BTC is far from alone. Some if not most of these have actual working product (working right now, adding more later) or are in the making of a product. Some other are just currency that want to become the money of the future. But, i have to agree that some crypto are just shit coins, they exist.
I get where you're coming from here, but there are a few issues with this paragraph:
  • What is a "product", and how many of them are fundamentally reliant on blockchain tech to exist? I.e. how many of them could have existed just as easily without any relation to crypto or blockchain tech? If one is trying to prove the usefulness of a technology, one needs to demonstrate that it either enables us to do something new, or to do something far better or more efficiently than previously. So far I've seen evidence of neither.
  • The fact that there are >8000 cryptocurrencies out there tells us exactly two things: that it's far too easy to create one, and that creating one is incentivized through the promise of creating something potentially valuable. There being a lot of something says nothing of its inherent value - just look at shell companies in tax havens. There are thousands of those, and the only things they are useful for is tax evasion and other forms of theft. Existence is not proof of usefulness or value.
  • Even if the vast majority of those >8000 "coins" were created by staunch idealists wanting to create a democratically controlled and decentralized international currency of the future, the extreme number of alternatives would render them all useless, and thus "shitcoins". >8000 competing standards just means nobody can agree on anything.
boulard83
All the post i see in here like "it's a lottery", "it's a ponzy", "only for money laundering" and i can just quote and quote and quote on every non-sense that I've seen here. All these comment sound like people that have read a single article about BTC/Crypto stating the said shit and they stopped here.... and now just repeat the same shit every time they see CRYPTO anywhere.
You're right that it's not a Ponzi scheme - that's a very specific form of scam, after all. But given the massive amount of fraud and crime related to cryptocurrency in general, it's a pretty reasonable approach to think of it all as a scam. The uncomfortable consequence of something being decentralized and unrelated to any type of government or supragovernmental organization is that there's an inherent lack of accountability, after all.

As for it being "only for money laundering" - not only, but it is a major use case, and something that can't really be controlled for. This is a fundamental issue of cryptocurrencies just as with any other unregulated exchange system.

As for it being a lottery: no, it's not a lottery, it's a gamble. As is all investment. The only real difference from for example stocks is that you can't generate stocks by running your GPU for a few weeks and wasting a bunch of electricity. But at least the stock market - which is indeed nothing more than organized gambling at this point - has some claim to being linked to actual value of some sort. Crypto is valuable because people with money agree that it's valuable - it's pure abstraction, all the way down. The thing traded might as well be magic unicorn dust or leprechaun beards, as those would be just as linked to any real value as crypto is. Cryptocurrencies are only, and it's worth underscoring only, an arbitrary item attributed a value so that it can be traded and gambled with. This is nothing new - after all, perhaps the most traded commodity in the finance "industry" (calling that an industry is really a stretch!) is promises. Promises to pay someone back, promises that you'll owe someone if they do X for you, promises that you'll be able to transform X money into >X money, etc., etc. Finance is fundamentally built on ever-increasing layers of abstraction, which is why it's so important to have strong regulations as those abstractions can link back to actual people and actual lives and cause actual harm when things go bust.
boulard83
FYI : Right now you can make your everyday grocery with crypto. Right now there are games, casino, software and more running on crypto as their "transaction database/currency". There are lots of working product and currency running with crypto and it's been like that for quite some time now. It's just growing and growing.
None of that proves that it's useful or necessary. It just shows that it can (barely) do what conventional currencies and payment systems already do. Which returns us to the issue that making an alternative solution that doesn't do anything new or better is just making a mess - and when that mess enables crime and causes major environmental harm, that is deeply problematic.
PowerPC
This comment here actually makes some claims. But these claims also happen not to be true. Otherwise, I would have said total bullshit but I'm in a good mood. Where in the hell did you hear that it takes "three weeks" to transfer Bitcoin? And what does it even have to do with crypto farms in China???? Bitcoin transfers take 10 minutes at most! And that's literally anywhere around the whole damn world. Show me a bank that will transfer your money anywhere in the world in 10 minutes?! Yea, if you want to talk about efficiencies, there is no match for crypto! Mining is just the process of making new crypto. It has nothing to do with transferring it from A to B. I can't even imagine where this connection in your mind comes from besides a very bad understanding of crypto. Yes, mining is inefficient. blabla, whatever. But once you have the coins, there is no system that is more secure and efficient for exchanging currency between two individuals than crypto. Full stop on that.
Thanks for actually engaging with the arguments, though sadly you're conflating two things here: cryptocurrencies as an extension of the concept of blockchain, and cryptocurrencies as a system for money transfer. My argument did not engage with both, so conflating both in your answer makes the answer ill suited. The example I provided was meant as an example of people arguing that blockchain will somehow revolutionize everything, where secure transactions is one of the chief arguments. If that argument relies on tokens/coins/whatever being pre-calculated, then it literally removes the question of blockchain tech from the equation - the same could be done with any traceable, open transaction system. Unless the processing of the transaction requires some unique input from the transaction itself and uses that to generate a unique output, you're essentially just using a system of high-tech receipts, after all. So unless the blockchain tech is used to generate a secure proof of transaction after the fact, I don't see how it makes a difference.

I never said that making a transfer with Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency takes any amount of time. But again, your argument here is rather ... hollow. Sure, global banking systems are slow and ponderous, and can stand to be improved. But ... how does that relate directly to blockchain tech or cryptocurrencies? Yes, they present an alternative, but they also present a heap of other new solutions and challenges entirely unrelated to accelerating money transfers. So if that's your end goal, you still need to take into account the other effects of the technology in question. You can't divorce the (relatively minor, especially given the extremely high threshold of entry) increase in transfer speed from other consequences such as the (frankly utterly ridiculous) need to waste massive amounts of electricity producing the medium of transfer, or how the fundamental anonymization and deregulation of the system enables massive criminality and no oversight. Call me conservative, but I'd much rather wait a day or two and pay a small fee than have my money transfers underpinned by massive pollution with literally nothing to show for it.
PowerPC
The other part of crypto and especially Bitcoin is the value it has in terms of investment. Bitcoin is the new gold in many ways. I would even say it's the evolution of gold. Gold isn't actually limited in supply as many people like to claim. Bitcoin is. People never questioned the inherent value of gold for thousands of years even though its utilitarian value is very limited. It has a value beyond its utilitarian value. That's just the way it is and some things are just like that. Nobody questioned it before because maybe they owned some gold or didn't care to look into it enough. But Bitcoin can actually be seen as digital gold just without many of the inefficiencies that gold brings like where you can store it (and who you can trust to store it for you). Bitcoin removes all that and lets you store it in your own virtual wallet that nobody can steal from you, not even the government. You can just claim that you forgot the password or whatever and they literally can't do anything. Have fun burying your Gold in the woods and hoping nobody finds it.... Yes, some people actually do that. So yes, Bitcoin just made Gold digital, even if you don't want to use it as a currency. Most of the people here are just angry they didn't mine/buy this stuff when it was pennies on the dollar and now have to cry about it. Grow up! And really, what's so damn bad about some tech-savvy individuals getting rich off of this? Is it better to leave everything to the 1%??? Alternatives are always good. And I can imagine there were also a lot of really poor geeky people who are now filthy rich. The horror, right? I really don't get all this crying about having alternatives.
As for this part though ... well, let's just start with "People never questioned the inherent value of gold for thousands of years even though its utilitarian value is very limited." Have you missed the fact that for those thousands of years, the major global currency was salt? Gold as a major trade commodity and dominant standard of value is a relatively new concept, precisely because of its low usefulness. Gold was for baubles and was only valued by monarchy/emperors/the ultra-rich, while salt made life livable for humans and created global trade routes. It's true that some sort of gold standard has existed in parallel with salt as the major denomination of value in many situations, but given its lack of use and scarcity (then), it was of little to no actual consequence outside of very select circles. So stating that "people never questioned the inherent value of gold" is just pure nonsense.

Next up:
PowerPC
That's just the way it is and some things are just like that.
To paraphrase this a bit based on the immediate context: we should never object to anything or try to change something that we deem harmful or problematic. That's what you're trying to say there, right? If not, what is the point of that sentence? Are you actually arguing that because people in ancient times (or the 19th century, or whenever) didn't question something, we shouldn't either? (Regardless of the fact that the initial premise, that they didn't question it, is false.) Because that is ... quite absurd. How is any sort of progress supposed to happen if we don't question how the world works? And questioning arbitrary measures of value with limited availability seems like a prime candidate for some close examination to me.
PowerPC
Most of the people here are just angry they didn't mine/buy this stuff when it was pennies on the dollar and now have to cry about it. Grow up!
And there comes the jealousy argument, and the belittlement of people disagreeing with you. It's too bad, really. Initially it actually seemed like you were trying to have an on-topic discussion. That probably sounded better in your head.
PowerPC
And really, what's so damn bad about some tech-savvy individuals getting rich off of this? Is it better to leave everything to the 1%???
I have to ask: would you say the same if you didn't happen to be within the group mentioned there? Say, if we redefined it to "what's so bad about some experts in sewing getting rich off of this?" - would you make the same argument? Because it's rather hard to ignore the possible self-interest underpinning such arguments. Also, presenting it as if "leaving everything to the 1%" is the only alternative is the most plain-faced false equivalency I've seen in a while. (And yes, that includes that ridiculous post I responded to previously.) It really shouldn't need saying, but there are more alternatives than "leave everything as it is" and "make cryptocurrencies the new standard for [something]". There are many, many, many alternatives besides those two, and many of them are far better.

Beyond that, though, these two last quotes seem to betray something fundamental to your support of this: you're benefitting from it, so rather than engage with the uncomfortable sides of it and risk losing those benefits, you're couching some really base selfishness in a skin of rationalizations. "What's so damn bad about [me] getting rich off this? [...] [You're] just angry that [you] didn't mine/buy this stuff when it was pennies on the dollar and now have to cry about it. Grow up!" That there? That's the emotional core of your argument. That's the most honest and truthful thing in your entire post. That shows us where you are coming from. And it's just as hollow and selfish an argument as it is every single time someone lucky enough to succeed within capitalism raises it against the people criticizing the system they are benefiting from.

This is where the fundamental issue of the "crypto will save the world" argument comes in: it has zero solutions towards actually solving real problems in the real world. In fact it's far more likely to exacerbate many major problems, as that is what happens when you deregulate something. Deregulation becomes a free-for-all, and who wins in a free-for-all? Whoever has the most resources. There are always a handful of exceptions (people with ingenious new solutions etc., people rushing to copy those new solutions), but the general rule is that those with the most resources always come out on top. I mean, your alternative of "leaving it to the 1%" assumes that crypto somehow doesn't do that. Which ... well, it does. There might just be a few new members of the 1% along the way. And that's how harmful myths like "the American dream" aka. the myth of individual success in capitalism, proliferate. The adage of "Anyone can succeed in a capitalist society - but everyone can't" really can't be repeated enough.

Capitalism is a system of high-stakes, intensive competition, with close to winner-take-all outcomes. It is a system where there will and must always be more losers than winners - if everyone won equally, that wouldn't be competition in a capitalist sense, and the system would fall apart. The system relies on a mythos of success to encourage people to play the game, and to avoid those on the bottom to organize against those on the top. It relies on a constant flux of failures with a few steady successes rising to the top. Why? Because capitalist society is a massively complex collection of interlinked systems in which any ordinary individual actor has zero chance of any real control over their own situation. The only ones with any control are the ones with massive amounts of resources - i.e. money. Some small fry will always luck out with a fortuitous combination of luck, timing, an idea or solution, hard work, etc., but those have always been and will always be the minority - there are easily a thousand losers for every winner. And by upholding the tantalizing ideal of "anyone can succeed" without mentioning the uncomfortable addendum "but everyone can't", the 1% get to keep their power. Crypto does exactly zero to counteract that. And arguably makes the issue worse, as it serves as yet another tool for those with a lot of resources to further entrench their position.
PowerPC
Alternatives are always good.
Only to those with the resources to make use of them.
PowerPC
And I can imagine there were also a lot of really poor geeky people who are now filthy rich.
Really? Really poor geeky people? Even if RX 570s were pretty good for mining and >$200, someone really poor is rarely able to afford a $200 GPU, let alone several. DIY PCs in general aren't very accessible to the poor. "A lot" is also pretty vague. Are there a few thousand people out there who have made millions on crypto? Sure, but most of those were already quite wealthy, as they could afford a lot of expensive hardware. Are there hundreds of thousands that have made perhaps a few thousand on crypto? No doubt. That hardly qualifies as "filthy rich" though. If I were to guess, I'd say the amount of people going from "really poor" to "filthy rich" through crypto is in the low hundreds at best. They would after all have had to risk going without food and shelter in order to pay for this hardware, a risk it's highly unlikely many would be willing or able to take. For reference, the US had an average poverty rate of 12.3% in 2019, with a population estimated at 328,239,523, so 40.4 million US citizens were living in poverty in 2019. I really don't see how even a few thousand poor people lucking out on crypto would amount to anything compared to that.

Getting in early on a new tradable commodity always allows a handful of people to get somewhat rich. That doesn't make that fact anything but a continuation of the status quo for a fundamentally unequal system.
Posted on Reply
#59
Valantar
R-T-B
According to the studies I have seen, it's not even a minor use case.
Guess that depends on how you define major and minor.

If "not even a minor use case" is based on it being less than 0.5% of transfers, that's a poor metric - most crypto transfers are people buying and selling crypto to each other after all, so it being a tradeable commodity interesting to finance people makes transfer numbers balloon. If youre basing it on actual sums of money, remember that all financial benefit from stolen crypto, scams, ransomware, etc., relies on said money being laundered - and that is most likely to happen through crypto. Even if we assume that half of it is lost or laundered elsewhere, that is still at least a billion dollars of money laundered every single year through crypto. I'd call that major.
Posted on Reply
#60
basco
this is why i do not start with i found a site that said this and i found a site that said that+++++ - because on the inet you can find anything backing up your sense or nonsense.
i am not exclaiming myself of this sheit.
www.valuewalk.com/2020/07/money-laundering-traditional-banks-cryptocurrencies/

but i am sure you can find something that is totally the opposite.

and dont forget bitcoin is still so small its just a fart in the wind against big banks +++
Posted on Reply
#61
mtcn77
Solid State Soul ( SSS )
Goodbye GPUs availability, hello consoles :')
Yep, anything useful they port it over to the consoles anyway.
Posted on Reply
#62
Valantar
basco
this is why i do not start with i found a site that said this and i found a site that said that+++++ - because on the inet you can find anything backing up your sense or nonsense.
i am not exclaiming myself of this sheit.
www.valuewalk.com/2020/07/money-laundering-traditional-banks-cryptocurrencies/

but i am sure you can find something that is totally the opposite.

and dont forget bitcoin is still so small its just a fart in the wind against big banks +++
It's entirely true that money laundering happens at absolutely staggering scales by traditional banks - and is indeed enabled by them, no matter how much they proclaim their innocence. Still, adding yet another opportunity for criminals to escape justice hardly serves as a fix to that, it just further complicates investigation and enforcement efforts.
Posted on Reply
#63
kapone32
Vya Domus
Shitcoins don't just exist, most of them are shitcoins. And there is real proof that at least of them, apart from being worthless, are also actual scams and their creators have been caught outright lying and misleading people like was the case with Tether.

People keep saying that it's a Ponzi scheme because of the colossal amount of scams and services that went bust or which have stolen money related to crypto, I don't have to list them all I am sure you're well aware of them. And if you want to argue that it has nothing to do with crypto itself I am still not buying it (pun not intended), it's the nature of crypto which enables these massive scams to be executed so freely and effective.

And lastly, I can buy exactly jack shit with crypto where I live and I doubt this is any different in 99.99% of places.
There are Bitcoin ATMs all over Toronto.
Posted on Reply
#64
Valantar
kapone32
There are Bitcoin ATMs all over Toronto.
And how many other cities globally? I mean, it's something, but that's still one city.
Posted on Reply
#65
Vya Domus
Valantar
And how many other cities globally? I mean, it's something, but that's still one city.
They could be everywhere and it would still not prove that bitcoin is used in any significant manner for actual purchases.
Posted on Reply
#66
R0H1T
kapone32
There are Bitcoin ATMs all over Toronto.
How many people does that cover?
Posted on Reply
#67
kapone32
R0H1T
How many people does that cover?
They are in just about every convenience store per one for every square mile. There may be more now as I have been working from home since April of last year. Even some major retailers are accepting Bitcoin payment.
Posted on Reply
#68
boulard83
Valantar
It's entirely true that money laundering happens at absolutely staggering scales by traditional banks - and is indeed enabled by them, no matter how much they proclaim their innocence. Still, adding yet another opportunity for criminals to escape justice hardly serves as a fix to that, it just further complicates investigation and enforcement efforts.
I've read trough all the wall of text you posted and still think you look like someone who dont know much about crypto but dislike it and you try very hard to prove your point.

Nothing wrong here, i hope you enjoy your "traditionnal" money as much as i like my "crypto" money.
Posted on Reply
#69
mtcn77
boulard83
traditionnal
He discusses that way.
Posted on Reply
#70
Valantar
boulard83
I've read trough all the wall of text you posted and still think you look like someone who dont know much about crypto but dislike it and you try very hard to prove your point.

Nothing wrong here, i hope you enjoy your "traditionnal" money as much as i like my "crypto" money.
I mean, you're more than welcome to present some counterarguments, or arguments of your own. Until that time, I'll have to assume you don't have any, sadly. Every claim you made in your post was easily countered.
mtcn77
He discusses that way.
Indeed, I actually respond to what people say. The shame!
Posted on Reply
#71
PowerPC
Valantar
Capitalism is a system of high-stakes, intensive competition, with close to winner-take-all outcomes. It is a system where there will and must always be more losers than winners
This is really all I need to quote to show that you have no clue about what you're talking about. None of this produces more losers. It just produces more winners and more opportunities. This is not about "us" vs. "them". In fact, just stop thinking like this altogether for once. This is not a healthy philosophy to carry around and it's demonstrably, factually, and rationally wrong. You can't prove that any of this is causing somebody to "lose" something. You just can't. That's why I'm stopping you right here. I'm not gonna argue with someone who literally will not be able to factually back anything with numbers. There is something called rational optimism. Matt Ridley wrote some books about it. Maybe come again when you read those. Then you can try telling me again how the world is literally burning. When the world has actually been improving by every possible rational metric astronomically fast for the last 100 years. Switch your perspective one time in your life and you will be free of all this bullshit you are coming up with against capitalism. Or maybe someone is feeding you with false information. It doesn't matter. You just really are blind to the facts.
Posted on Reply
#72
Valantar
PowerPC
This is really all I need to quote to show that you have no clue about what you're talking about. None of this produces more losers. It just produces more winners and more opportunities. This is not about "us" vs. "them". In fact, just stop thinking like this altogether for once. This is not a healthy philosophy to carry around and it's demonstrably, factually, and rationally wrong. You can't prove that any of this is causing somebody to "lose" something. You just can't. That's why I'm stopping you right here. I'm not gonna argue with someone who literally will not be able to factually back anything with numbers. There is something called rational optimism. Matt Ridley wrote some books about it. Maybe come again when you read those. Then you can try telling me again how the world is literally burning. When the world has actually been improving by every possible rational metric astronomically fast for the last 100 years. Switch your perspective one time in your life and you will be free of all this bullshit you are coming up with against capitalism. Or maybe someone is feeding you with false information. It doesn't matter. You just really are blind to the facts.
Wait, what? Will not be able to back anything with numbers? Where did you get that from? For starters, here is some light reading for you. Next, take even a cursory look at the distribution of wealth in western economies - one of the stand-out features is that the more tightly regulated the economy, the more equal the distribution of wealth, and typically also the lower the poverty rate. Here's a challenge: show me even a single data point from a trustworthy source showing capitalism creating more winners than losers across a large population.

Unregulated capitalism creates inequality. It is a fundamental trait of the system, as it promotes wealth as an ideal and thus makes people hoard it. And there isn't enough money to go around to make more people rich than poor. So, sorry, but unregulated capitalism does indeed create more losers than winners. And as the world has moved towards less regulation over the past 3-5 decades, economic inequality has skyrocketed, working and middle class wages have stagnated (literally 30 years ago in the US) and social mobility has all but frozen. Capitalism is a lottery of birth and circumstance where what you start out with largely determines your outcome, which is shown by how the vast majority of rich people are born into wealth. People like to promote myths like "work hard, and you can become rich too", but there is literally zero truth to that. There is no direct causal link between hard work and wealth, and there never has been - that's a useful myth for business owners to keep people slaving away rather than demanding better conditions. Some succeed from unlikely circumstances through some combination of luck, opportunity, outside help, work, and other factors, but far more fail. Always. And just as many succeed without any hard work at all, of course. Capitalism is typically sold to us as a meritocracy, but it has never, ever been one. And it never will be. It's a game rigged in favor of those with wealth.

I'm not in any way denying that the world has become better in most ways over the past century. And capitalism has contributed to that (mainly through spreading its ideology of growth) but most increases in general prosperity have been brought about by explicitly anti-capitalist movements and policies - workers' rights movements, women's rights movements, etc. Without them, most people would be far, far worse off than they are today, and the rich would be richer. Concessions and rights have been won through collective action against the wealthy and powerful. So general prosperity (and a large portion of the increased productivity over the past century) is a hard-fought outcome of countercultural movements struggling against the consequences of capitalism, not an outcome of capitalism itself.

And of course we're rapidly running into a wall of reality regarding the myth of infinite growth fuelling capitalism, with the environmental damage we have wrought over the past centuries starting to become unmanageable. And given that capitalism fundamentally requires growth (unless you have significant growth, you'll have a crash), that's an insurmountable issue. We can't keep consuming resources like we have. Capitalism is fundamentally unsustainable. I'm not familiar with "rational optimism", but if it's promoting a view that capitalism is beneficial for most people and a good way forward for humanity, then it's too caught up in the ideological baggage of capitalism to see reality.
Posted on Reply
#73
R-T-B
Vya Domus
I have to see some sort of payments breakdown of different kinds of currencies to be convinced crypto is actually being used in any significant manner.
Which is it, use or acceptance? The use is certainly there. You can look at any block explorer to see that. The acceptance I just showed to you. You seem to be moving meaningless goalposts.
Valantar
Guess that depends on how you define major and minor.
I define it as a percentage of total transactions. I also use modern rather than historic sources.

Have a look.

www.nasdaq.com/articles/stop-the-bitcoin-fud%3A-criminal-cryptocurrency-transactions-are-falling-2021-01-20

2.1 percent is not even in the realm of "major"
Posted on Reply
#74
Vya Domus
R-T-B
The use is certainly there. You can look at any block explorer to see that.
And see what exactly, there are a lot of transactions, yes, but it doesn't tell you anything about what they're for.
R-T-B
www.nasdaq.com/articles/stop-the-bitcoin-fud%3A-criminal-cryptocurrency-transactions-are-falling-2021-01-20
I am sure that you are aware though that crypto rose in popularity massively in the last few years, it's easy to make it look like criminal related activities have fallen in frequency. They may have not fallen at all, it's just that the number of those who don't use it for that has increased by a lot more.

And also I have to point out the obvious, there is no reliable way to know any of this for sure. One thing for sure is that crypto made it easier than ever to hide money away.
Posted on Reply
#75
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
Vya Domus
And also I have to point out the obvious, there is no reliable way to know any of this for sure. One thing for sure is that crypto made it easier than ever to hide money away.
Monero is really the only coin where you can effectively hide money away. It has a large userbase and seems to be the most stable and secure. Even then it is a huge risk that the value tanks you lose most of your hidden "money." Bitcoin, ethereum, etc are not anonymous and your transactions on the blockchain can be traced back to you through forensic auditing. You take a big risk hiding money using crypto. If you really want to hide money just hoard cash. It has been the tried and true method of hiding money for hundreds of years.
Posted on Reply
Add your own comment