The Pirate Bay in Legal Soup, Owners Fined and Jailed

[FordGT90Concept]

look at Napster, for example . . .

Heh, I just edited the post. I thought of that one after that edit. XD

Still, I can't help but think this "issue" won't be resolved until more youngins get in political positions--those that grew up with the Internet and computers in general.

 

[Tyr.1358]

What software companies need to protect is their licenses. Microsoft for example is developing a model to protect their licenses, and they won't care if you download a piece of software cause your disc got destroyed. You paid for the license to use the software, not the software itself in a sense.

More companies should follow this.

As per movies and cds, why not cut down costs a bit. May get people more willing to purchase products.

I agree. I see movies in walmart now with two prices. One is $20, the other is $35. The $35 version has a "digital copy for your computer!". What is up with that? Do I own it or not? The rights are not transferrable?

That is what I thought steam was about (I was so excited, because I have more than one computer), but now I have $300 worth of steam games that won't install. You press the install button and nothing happens. You open up the disc drive directory and run the setup app and nothing happens. Reinstall windows and flash the dvd-rom firmware, nothing happens. Go online to activate a product I actually payed for and nothing happens. Submit a support ticket and nothing happens. Go to TPB and download it, then it works fine.

I guess it is ok to put software on a subscription based service, but what happens when the activation servers die off and no one takes responsibility? I'm the only person I know that has this problem with steam, but just because my account is an isolated incident doesn't mean it couldn't happen to everyone else; especially with other companies. What was the name of that game, Table Rusa? Tabul Rasu? IDK but I think all the people who bought a copy got screwed.:shadedshu

 

[Hayder_Master]

Ya know man after I said that I thought it might be taken the wrong way. I'm really glad you took it as humor and not a dig at your country man.

sure my friend this is what i should be , in iraq culture people think like that the problem is the ignored people wrong that is iraq problem

 

[FryingWeesel]

Apparently so. It's wrong but it's in Sweden so what can we do about it? Hell, it happened here too with a lot of "demo" groups getting taken down...and Kazaa...and eDonkey...and Napster. I'd say it's anti-new-technology on the Government's (not just USA either--international) behalf for not stepping in and stopping it. Which begs another question: When is UDP and TCP, the base framework for transmitting digital information, going to become illegal?

Again, when does it stop?

1. kazza sucked, just a bunch of bugged crappy quility mp3's and viruses/fakes

2. edonky was dead long b4 the leigal action was taken, their software was replaced by emule and shareaza and other BETTER clients.

3. Napster........dont get me started on that.

blah, i would like to see all these fuckers just fucking die and leave the rest of us alone!!!(riaa/mpaa/exct)

 

[mrw1986]

I would download gas illegally if I could.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

1. kazza sucked, just a bunch of bugged crappy quility mp3's and viruses/fakes

Sherman Network had to pay $100 million and as a result, sold off to Brilliant Digital Entertainment, Inc. which turned it into a subscription music download service.

2. edonky was dead long b4 the leigal action was taken, their software was replaced by emule and shareaza and other BETTER clients.

MetaMachine Inc. had to pay $30 million to the RIAA and discontinue the client, eDonkey2000.

3. Napster........dont get me started on that.

Napster paid $36 million to the RIAA making it a subscription service in order to pay down the debt. It was later bankrupted after a judge denied a German company to buy it up. Roxio now owns the rights to the name "Napster."


Yes, their software isn't the best but that isn't the point. They were killed and/or forced to change their business to subscriptions just because they linked to data on other people's computers.

 

[FryingWeesel]

i am aware of all that, but kazza was CRAP, it was only so popular because it was one of the first easy to use searching clients.

as to the others, really it dosnt matter, they where really done to give the RIAA/MPAA moral victorys, just like this case with TPB will fade now that the mpaa/riaa have their moral victory and thus justification to them sueing kids, old people, dead people, homeless people...exct

 

[Relayer]

All of this "intent of the pirate bay" is meaningless. You have either broken a law or you haven't. It's that black and white. What law did the pirate bay break? As has been mentioned there is nothing on the pirate bay that is not on Google as well. If the pirate bay was breaking the law by having this content so is every other site that carries the same content.

Aren't the makers of p2p software just as guilty? It can just as easily be argued that bittorrent software assists in breaking copyright laws.

 

[Mussels]

All of this "intent of the pirate bay" is meaningless. You have either broken a law or you haven't. It's that black and white. What law did the pirate bay break? As has been mentioned there is nothing on the pirate bay that is not on Google as well. If the pirate bay was breaking the law by having this content so is every other site that carries the same content.

Aren't the makers of p2p software just as guilty? It can just as easily be argued that bittorrent software assists in breaking copyright laws.

oh dont forget the companies that made the web browsers, without them we never could have got the pirated materials.

Oh and shut down every ISP as well, they havent blocked it.

 

[FryingWeesel]

they also need to kill bulitin bord systems(bbs) and telnet, hell outlaw networking, and any kind of media that can be writen to, since its "piracy" to install something you PAYED FOR on more then one system(like a game, or windows)

 

[Mussels]

actually the final step is to outlaw the original programs in the first place. no operating systems, no PC hardware, nothing - if we dont have PC's we cant pirate! simple!

 

[DrPepper]

oh dont forget the companies that made the web browsers, without them we never could have got the pirated materials.

Oh and shut down every ISP as well, they havent blocked it.

Don't forget hard drives for letting us store it. Anything and everything can be involved in assisting piracy so its pretty much a silly law.

 

[FryingWeesel]

well, see alot of companys want to move to "Cloud computing" meaning the "computer" at your end CANT run by itself, you MUST be online and the OS and other apps/files are stored on the companys servers, so they can carge you effectivly a rental fee for using your computer since all the software is "theirs"

dosnt that sound fun?

 

[mdm-adph]

mdm-adph! Only you would bring child porn into this conversation.

I've no more "brought" it than you have by mentioning it in your post.

 

[3870x2]

sure my friend this is what i should be , in iraq culture people think like that the problem is the ignored people wrong that is iraq problem

Where are you in iraq? I was in balad for about 8 months from oct 07 to june 08, and might be coming back at some time.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

well, see alot of companys want to move to "Cloud computing" meaning the "computer" at your end CANT run by itself, you MUST be online and the OS and other apps/files are stored on the companys servers, so they can carge you effectivly a rental fee for using your computer since all the software is "theirs"

dosnt that sound fun?

To the people making billions on it, yeah. Not everyone else.

 

[IcrushitI]

well, see alot of companys want to move to "Cloud computing" meaning the "computer" at your end CANT run by itself, you MUST be online and the OS and other apps/files are stored on the companys servers, so they can carge you effectivly a rental fee for using your computer since all the software is "theirs"

dosnt that sound fun?

A little off topic, but we seem to be going in a full circle. The internet first started by being open, now it seems the net is being filtered to the point of I'm being taken by the hand and told this is what you can and cannot do and what ever way we decide, you will obey. I just hope the Post Office is still open incase I need to send mail to my friends and family when I decide to let go of this control.

 

[DaMulta]

Arrrrr

 

[TheMailMan78]

To the people making billions on it, yeah. Not everyone else.

I don't like the sound but at the same time it would solve a lot of piracy issues. Anyway how is that any different than cable TV?

question, whats your definition of theft/stealing?

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Theft


sorry but p2p/file SHARING dosnt consist of "taking of property" it consists of COPYING bits of data from one/many systems to one/many others, nothing is TAKEN or STOLEN.

Im being very literal here, because the law, its intents and how its implemented are two very differnt things, If you got enough money you can get away with literally anything, OR cause somebody to be found guilty of anything as well.

the US leigal system is quite flawed, its better then many places, but still, its more about "who has the most $ wins the case" or "he who has the $ makes the rules"

If you have an object and I take it from you, that is stealing. You no longer have said object, I do. With digitized content and lossless, virtually free copying of data, even if I take it from you, you still have it. How is that stealing? The only way it is stealing is if you feel entitled to compensation for me copying it. The legal questions is: do you deserve compensation for something you didn't actually lose?

If Google gets taken to court, I hope they win saying that copying digital content, so long as it isn't for profit, is legal. That is, if person A downloads music for themselves, it isn't a crime. If person A downloads music, burns it to a disk, and sells the disks to person B, C, and D, it is illegal due to forgery of the content (new author).

If Google loses the case, then the next thing they'll go after backing up anything. If they succeed with making backups illegal, then say good bye to the "Copy" function in computers. If they succeed there, say good bye to your computer (because memory operations are illegal which all Intel processors do on the lowest level).

Where does it stop?

I am an artist by profession. What I am paid to create is property of the company I work for. If I take one of my designs and I GIVE it to a competitor I can go to jail for theft. However you guys think if I shared that same exact design online it should be ok? Intellectual property is called property for a reason. If you do not respect the laws of copyrights than you cant respect the laws of identity. Mickey Mouse is property of Disney. It's an identity. Years ago they shut down SCHOOLS for violating Disney copyright by putting Mickey on the side of the schools or anywhere that wasn't approved by Disney and had not paid to use his likeness. No one bitched. Now since its affecting a bunch of people who have no respect of the law you start to redefine words like "theft" and phrases like "Civil Disobedience". Where does that stop? I can go extreme also. Lets redefine rape and molestation.

That seems stupid doesn't it? Now imagine you bust your ass for years perfecting your trade. Now a service comes along and take away your right for compensation for your effort. Where does THAT end? Do you only pay for material things? So we only pay for parts? Not the time the individual took to assemble it? You guys need to think REAL hard why copyright laws exist. You want to talk about the ultimate extreme? Without artist civilizations dies. Keep taking money from the creative population and watch society crumble.

Thats rather subjective. Being under the poverty line is making less than $16,000 in the US. $16,000 could buy a computer....

I've been on food stamps. I didn't have enough for a computer. Thats my definition of poor. You make less that 16,000 a year then you are most defiantly poor.

Here is another definition of Civil Disobedience:

Philosophy Dictionary: civil disobedience
"The political tactic of disobeying a law deliberately, in order to bring about some change. The disobedience should ideally be public, non-violent, and committed by activists willing to face the penalties of the law."
Does that not describe what TPB is doing, or anybody else that is fighting through whatever means because the law is unjust and favors a select few that have the wealth to influence, through lobbying (influence peddling) the politicians.

You can not rewrite the context of it or bend the definition above to prove theft of a luxury is acceptible.

I would download gas illegally if I could.

Here is a perfect example of what I am talking about.

All of this "intent of the pirate bay" is meaningless. You have either broken a law or you haven't. It's that black and white. What law did the pirate bay break? As has been mentioned there is nothing on the pirate bay that is not on Google as well. If the pirate bay was breaking the law by having this content so is every other site that carries the same content.

Yes they broke the law and were convicted.

partially agree - it's a torrent site, and merely passes along the information necessary for your rig to download a torrent from someone else's rig . . . nothing on the site's servers.


It's the equivalent, IMHO, of walking up to someone and asking "hey, you know where I can get a hold of some red?" and that person responding "no, I don't mess with that crap - but if you go check out my buddy down the road . . . he can hook you up."

Can someone be held legally accountable for illegal drug trade just because they know someone who is in the business . . . even though they've never touched the stuff in their life?

The difference between Google was again its intent. Your analogy for the person who knows how to score some "red" is spot on. Now imagine that same person puts in add in the paper to come to his house and he will direct you to all the best drugs some illegal. Some not. When the cops come that person refuses to give up his sources. Illegal or not. He is now upstructing justice and is an accomplice to illegal activities. That is "Pirate Bay".

 

[FryingWeesel]

so you have no problem with ISOhunt then? because it was started as a simple torrent indexing and searching service reguardless of these "intellectual properties rights" people like you are so fond of.

Hate to tell you this but the mere concept of such rights dosnt excist in many cultures.

The problem with people like you is that you think that because you created something that you should have to give your permission for them to even take a photo of it or to copy it, when infact the world thrives on copying , look at china, that place THRIVES on making clones/copy's of stuff other people create/invent.

Current copyright laws are NOT built for the world we live in, they where writen by greedy men who wanted to be payed every time sombody even viewed something they owned the copyright on be it a movie, music, or hell a damn picture.

there are plenty of articals about ways to fix the copyright and IP laws in this country/world, but people like you wouldnt like it because it would mean you having to give up some(not all but some) right to you work.

the fact is that if people like you dont adapt, your just gonna get runover by the buss, and as i see it, theres no real loss there, people who cant/wont adapt are bad for the human race and would have died by being mauled by an animal or from exposure to to much sun or cold because they couldnt adapt to changing conditions.(ok could have starved because they refused to adapt to moving of game animals as well)

people should be compensated for their work, but not forever and IMHO things even software should go "public domain" after a set number of years, there are alot of older games that people would love to fix or re-make due to bugs but they cant because companys like atari and VUG hold onto the IP rights with a steal glove dispite admiting they never expect to make another game based on said IP rights because theres no profit in it for them.

How is it fair to sell a game for ful retail, after pushing it out MONTHS early then not fixing it because you already got the bulk of your $ out of it, and when the community wants to fix it telling them in effect to "fuck off" because you own the "IP" for said game????


blah, i will come back to this i gotta helps somebody update his seagate hdd's

 

[farlex85]

Creativity won't suffer from lack of monetary compensation. Never has. But it will be improved by the fantastic variety of influences the internet provides. For creativity, this can only be a good thing, and the argument that file sharing will destroy the artistic community is absurdity. Change it's values and it's form, but creativity will flourish with freedom.

 

[FryingWeesel]

well, i agree, alot of people who couldn't get backing for their work will beable to get their work out there.

alot of bands have started using the net to get attention, where they couldnt get their works published under the RIAA's regime.

alot of torrent sites promote bands, one i spend alot of time on puts their works on the front page infact

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Mickey Mouse is property of Disney. It's an identity.

Disney doesn't own the billions of bits that represent every instance of "Mickey Mouse." They only own the right to create new Mickey Mouse content. That is, I can't make something and call it "Mickey Mouse" because I don't own that trademark/copyright. Just by watching a DVD that features Mickey Mouse, your DVD player is copying those bits to a frame buffer to render it. That, in itself, violates traditional copyright laws. Not to mention, all those ebooks, by nature, violate copyright laws. There is nothing to distinguish legal from non-legal copies except when a copyright holder points a finger and pouts at a specific case. In which case, the end user usually gets screwed just because of the nature of the business (copy from CD/DVD to hard drive, copy from hard drive to RAM, copy from RAM to VRAM, copy from RAM to L3, copy from L3 to L2, copy from L2 to L1, write back to RAM, etc.).

 

[troyrae360]

COME on, the stuff people download is BlockBuster Movies mostley, now in those blockbuster movies there are people that are getting payed millions of dollers while the rest of us work our jobs (that all in all are just as important for socitiey, if not more important) for a small fraction of what these actors earn.
really it sickins me to see people strugeling so survive to feed there family, let alone take them all to the movies while some lawer is getting payed more for a months work trying to sue someone like TPB while another man works his guts out to make that same money in a year!!, im sure that same man would take his familey to the movies or rent a movie just as often as before the internet came along.
if i want a night out ill go to the movies, if i want to watch a movie at home ill hire it, if i want to download a movie i will but when i do it dosnt take away from my hireing or my night out so in that case its a win win situation
and at the end of the day, SO FUKEN WHAT IF Hugh Jackman or Tom Cruze or whoever only make 1mill instead of some crazey amount of money that would set the avarage man up for life.
i could keep ranting but hopfully you all see where im coming from.

 

[DaedalusHelios]

Time magazine just published the annual "what people make in a year" issue. Youy should read it.... It might have been Parade magazine.....??? But you get the point that wealth differences in the USA are rediculous and are getting worse.

The cost of "goods"(milk, bread, etc.) go up, the wealthy get paid more, they pay there workers less because nobody stops them. Due to this "no regulation" atitude it will only get worse. I am not saying we can stop it though.