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So the new RTX cards have been released with reviews...

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Jack of all trades,master of none. Good for the company,but if a consumer has a very particular focus they'll likely go nvidia.

I miss ATI.

When I heard AMD was buying out ATI I had a mixed reaction.

I was like, on one side "maybe Ruby will finally go away..."

But the other side was like "but they've been making good high-end gaming GPUs and I don't want them to screw around with that."

In the end I cheered in joyous glee as Ruby dissolved away from their ads in a pile of boob goo and shallow storyline juice.

Fast forward, and sadly, I wish Ruby was still bouncing her boobs around here and we had high end altnernative GPUs.

What did getting rid of Ruby cost us?

Everything.
 
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I was like, on one side "maybe Ruby will finally go away..."

Why would you even want that ? :cry:

I miss those weird ass looking boxes with their surreal art.
 
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If anyone contemplates splurging on Turing, I would think waiting a bit for prices to settle down would be the smart thing to do. I mean, with the mining craze over, there's very little chance of prices going up. And if these collect enough dust on shelves, prices will have to "adjust".

1. That's a universal statement... been true with every new release.

2. Here in the US, we're looking at tariff's going from 10% to 30% in January

As for the tired old and silly "few games support it" comment

a) If you made a match.com profile would you add "pretty girls need not respond" because 7 outta the 10 pretty girls you asked out said no ?

b) Sir, would you please only show me only used cars without air conditioning cause I'll only use it 50-60 days a year ?

c) Let's not go to that franchise restaurant 10 miles east of town with no free drinks cause the one that's only 5 miles west, even tho it has better food, only offers free unlimited drinks with 30% of their menu;

d) I won't go to that delicatessen for my breakfast special cause. even tho their food is better, they give away a free lottery ticket and the odds of winning ar not that favorable. News Flash... 0% chance is less favorable.

When an extra feature is provided, especially if it doesn't cost anything that's not a bad thing. I remember an old THG review on PhyX back when it was worth reading (Pre Purch acquisition) on PhysX and it said something to the effect that it wasn't going to knock you out of your chair when you enable PhysX but once you use it, you are certainly not going to turn it off. I expect that once drivers are updated, games are written to use it, we will see most major titles incorporate it. The less popular titles are less likely to spend what's necessary to include it, but then again... most gamers are not buying most of those titles. Checking w/ my boys, youngest plays 15-16 games, middle guy about 7-8 and oldest 3-5.

When handicapping sports events, bookies will add a few points (3.5 typical for college football ... say 4 to get rid of the decimal) to the spread for the home team ... so a 20-17 game on a neutral field could be 24 -17 on one site and a 20-21 on the other. I look at these features the same way. If I am comparing two games, for story, game play, graphics, challenge ... whatever ... and they come up equal, the availability of extra features over the years .... i,e, PhyX, Ray Tracing, SLI / CF support gets extra points as it delivers an improved experience. You may not notice it "going in" ... but w/ PhysX for example, replaying the game where explosions don't produce debris, papers and leaves on the floor that don't move as you walk thu them, curtains that don't move... fog and steam that doesn't exist certainly detract from the game experience.

I had the same experience with IPS. Our 1st one was a Dell Ultrasharp as my son minored in Photography in college .... It was great for PhotoShop... sucked (IPS Glow / slow) for gaming.... he bought a TN panel and used dual monitors using the TN for gaming and IPS everything else. When he graduated and landed 1st job, treated himself to an Acer Predator with the 27" 165Hz 3 ms IPS screens ... his room mate got a 34' curved TN. I payed on both the same day, 1st the IPS ... in going to the curved, i was initially somewhat impressed by the sense of immersion but then going back to the IPS was like getting slapped hard in the face. All of a sudden the difference was so obvious ya find yaself wondering why at 1st glance it wasn't all that impressive. But after the experience, going back feels empty and washed out by comparison. I have the same attitude towards PhysX, I agree with the THG author, if it's available, you are certainly not going to play with it off. As far Ray Tracing, we're not in a position to know just yet. What baffles me is people's ability, for lack of a better word, to make a decision on something that have not yet experienced.

As for the cost ... The cost (in 2017 dollars) of the 'top card' since the year 2000 has ranged from $460 (GTX 285) to $992 (8800 Ultra)
https://www.hardocp.com/news/2017/03/10/some_perspective_zarathustras_nvidia_price_history

The 1080 launched in May 2016 for $600.... inflation adds 5% and, I expect, add another 10% for the China tariff (30% in january)... that's $693. The TPU review puts the price of the RTX 2080 ($3 less than expected) at $699 and the FE at $799. Of course MSRPs are meaningless until one can actually buy the cards. Here's what I'd recommend. The Asus Vega 64 Strix is as low as $650 ($770 on newegg) ... The Asus 2080 is $870 ... That's a 50% increase in performance for a 34% increase in price.

Since nVidia could not keep up w/ demand during the mining craze, accelerated production, and then got caught with excess inventory when mining craze crashed and burned. So, the price of the 20xx will remain inflated until those cards are gone. And what are your other choices ? ... unless you need less than a 1060, AMD doesn't have a horse in the race.

a) Upgraders at 1080p can grab a 1060 / 1070 ... upgraders at 1440p can grab a 1070 / 1080.
b) Upgraders at 1440p 144 Hz and 2160p should stand pat unless money doesn't matter.
c) If doing a new build would advise waiting, but if one can't fight the itch, the 1080 isn't a bad choice but I expect there will be some buyers remorse when the AIB cards drop to $700. In US, probably more unless the tariffs don't go up.
d) Unless money is no object, or being the 1st on the block to have the latest shiny thing is really, really important let the Ti sit on the shelves.
e) Any consideration of purchasing 1st stepping cards should be made knowing that you may be one of these customers:
... you bought the EVGA 970 SC and the 1/3 of the heat sink "missed" the GPU
... you bought the 1060 - 1080 SC / FTW which didn't have thermal pads for VRMs and memory
... you bought one of the early MSI 9xx cards where the adhesive tape over the fan shroud was a bit to sticky and in removing it, you damaged the fan bearing.

Another thing ... I took special note of the review comments which said cards were power limited ... so one question I think is relevant is, "Why are AIBs providing power deliver systems capable of handling 375 watts (2080) and then limiting power to 260 watts . Why design the 2080 / 2080 Ti to handle 375 / 450 watts and then set the default to 260 / 300 and allow a boost only to 296 / 330 ? In the past, nVidia's strategy in response to a new AMD card was to introduce the xx80 Ti and then adjust the pricing of all the cards below 1 tier. Gotta wonder, will the next response to competition be to simply provide a new series using the same hardware with a BIOS upgrade increasing the power limit adjustment .
 
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AMD have competed just fine, the only thing they have lost out in is the top, high end: ie: 1080ti. They were competitive all the way from the low end to 1070 and 1080 (Vega 56/64) just couldnt compete with 1080ti and let's face it, thats probably 5% of all NVIDIA users.
 
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Why would you even want that ? :cry:

I miss those weird ass looking boxes with their surreal art.

Because it was transparent as hell.

...

Or I'm a SJW who wants to take all your fun away. Take your pick. :)

AMD have competed just fine, the only thing they have lost out in is the top, high end: ie: 1080ti. They were competitive all the way from the low end to 1070 and 1080 (Vega 56/64) just couldnt compete with 1080ti and let's face it, thats probably 5% of all NVIDIA users.

Flagship leader status affects total marketshare across the entire price gamut. Time tested principle.
 
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1. That's a universal statement... been true with every new release.

2. Here in the US, we're looking at tariff's going from 10% to 30% in January

As for the tired old and silly "few games support it" comment

a) If you made a match.com profile would you add "pretty girls need not respond" because 7 outta the 10 pretty girls you asked out said no ?

b) Sir, would you please only show me only used cars without air conditioning cause I'll only use it 50-60 days a year ?

c) Let's not go to that franchise restaurant 10 miles east of town with no free drinks cause the one that's only 5 miles west, even tho it has better food, only offers free unlimited drinks with 30% of their menu;

d) I won't go to that delicatessen for my breakfast special cause. even tho their food is better, they give away a free lottery ticket and the odds of winning ar not that favorable. News Flash... 0% chance is less favorable.

When an extra feature is provided, especially if it doesn't cost anything that's not a bad thing. I remember an old THG review on PhyX back when it was worth reading (Pre Purch acquisition) on PhysX and it said something to the effect that it wasn't going to knock you out of your chair when you enable PhysX but once you use it, you are certainly not going to turn it off. I expect that once drivers are updated, games are written to use it, we will see most major titles incorporate it. The less popular titles are less likely to spend what's necessary to include it, but then again... most gamers are not buying most of those titles. Checking w/ my boys, youngest plays 15-16 games, middle guy about 7-8 and oldest 3-5.

When handicapping sports events, bookies will add a few points (3.5 typical for college football ... say 4 to get rid of the decimal) to the spread for the home team ... so a 20-17 game on a neutral field could be 24 -17 on one site and a 20-21 on the other. I look at these features the same way. If I am comparing two games, for story, game play, graphics, challenge ... whatever ... and they come up equal, the availability of extra features over the years .... i,e, PhyX, Ray Tracing, SLI / CF support gets extra points as it delivers an improved experience. You may not notice it "going in" ... but w/ PhysX for example, replaying the game where explosions don't produce debris, papers and leaves on the floor that don't move as you walk thu them, curtains that don't move... fog and steam that doesn't exist certainly detract from the game experience.

I had the same experience with IPS. Our 1st one was a Dell Ultrasharp as my son minored in Photography in college .... It was great for PhotoShop... sucked (IPS Glow / slow) for gaming.... he bought a TN panel and used dual monitors using the TN for gaming and IPS everything else. When he graduated and landed 1st job, treated himself to an Acer Predator with the 27" 165Hz 3 ms IPS screens ... his room mate got a 34' curved TN. I payed on both the same day, 1st the IPS ... in going to the curved, i was initially somewhat impressed by the sense of immersion but then going back to the IPS was like getting slapped hard in the face. All of a sudden the difference was so obvious ya find yaself wondering why at 1st glance it wasn't all that impressive. But after the experience, going back feels empty and washed out by comparison. I have the same attitude towards PhysX, I agree with the THG author, if it's available, you are certainly not going to play with it off. As far Ray Tracing, we're not in a position to know just yet. What baffles me is people's ability, for lack of a better word, to make a decision on something that have not yet experienced.

As for the cost ... The cost (in 2017 dollars) of the 'top card' since the year 2000 has ranged from $460 (GTX 285) to $992 (8800 Ultra)
https://www.hardocp.com/news/2017/03/10/some_perspective_zarathustras_nvidia_price_history

The 1080 launched in May 2016 for $600.... inflation adds 5% and, I expect, add another 10% for the China tariff (30% in january)... that's $693. The TPU review puts the price of the RTX 2080 ($3 less than expected) at $699 and the FE at $799. Of course MSRPs are meaningless until one can actually buy the cards. Here's what I'd recommend. The Asus Vega 64 Strix is as low as $650 ($770 on newegg) ... The Asus 2080 is $870 ... That's a 50% increase in performance for a 34% increase in price.

Since nVidia could not keep up w/ demand during the mining craze, accelerated production, and then got caught with excess inventory when mining craze crashed and burned. So, the price of the 20xx will remain inflated until those cards are gone. And what are your other choices ? ... unless you need less than a 1060, AMD doesn't have a horse in the race.

a) Upgraders at 1080p can grab a 1060 / 1070 ... upgraders at 1440p can grab a 1070 / 1080.
b) Upgraders at 1440p 144 Hz and 2160p should stand pat unless money doesn't matter.
c) If doing a new build would advise waiting, but if one can't fight the itch, the 1080 isn't a bad choice but I expect there will be some buyers remorse when the AIB cards drop to $700. In US, probably more unless the tariffs don't go up.
d) Unless money is no object, or being the 1st on the block to have the latest shiny thing is really, really important let the Ti sit on the shelves.
e) Any consideration of purchasing 1st stepping cards should be made knowing that you may be one of these customers:
... you bought the EVGA 970 SC and the 1/3 of the heat sink "missed" the GPU
... you bought the 1060 - 1080 SC / FTW which didn't have thermal pads for VRMs and memory
... you bought one of the early MSI 9xx cards where the adhesive tape over the fan shroud was a bit to sticky and in removing it, you damaged the fan bearing.

Another thing ... I took special note of the review comments which said cards were power limited ... so one question I think is relevant is, "Why are AIBs providing power deliver systems capable of handling 375 watts (2080) and then limiting power to 260 watts . Why design the 2080 / 2080 Ti to handle 375 / 450 watts and then set the default to 260 / 300 and allow a boost only to 296 / 330 ? In the past, nVidia's strategy in response to a new AMD card was to introduce the xx80 Ti and then adjust the pricing of all the cards below 1 tier. Gotta wonder, will the next response to competition be to simply provide a new series using the same hardware with a BIOS upgrade increasing the power limit adjustment .
Had fun reading this.


Anyway,the situation is weird here in PL since rtx 2080 is same price as 1080ti. To get a cheaper one you gottta get sth like 1080ti mini,and you only save a little.
 
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Another thing ... I took special note of the review comments which said cards were power limited ... so one question I think is relevant is, "Why are AIBs providing power deliver systems capable of handling 375 watts (2080) and then limiting power to 260 watts . Why design the 2080 / 2080 Ti to handle 375 / 450 watts and then set the default to 260 / 300 and allow a boost only to 296 / 330 ? In the past, nVidia's strategy in response to a new AMD card was to introduce the xx80 Ti and then adjust the pricing of all the cards below 1 tier. Gotta wonder, will the next response to competition be to simply provide a new series using the same hardware with a BIOS upgrade increasing the power limit adjustment .
Efficiency and reliability of the power delivery. Overclockers are no doubt a consideration but not the primary one.
As for limiting, Nvidia has been sticking exactly to the AIB specs for a long while now, that 260W TDP on 2080Ti FE is even a bit strange in this regard.

@Squiggy McPew, how is that Alienware's blower? My MSI's blower was godawful both in terms of noise as well as temperatures and resulting clocks, lower than FE cards :/
 
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@Squiggy McPew, how is that Alienware's blower? My MSI's blower was godawful both in terms of noise as well as temperatures and resulting clocks, lower than FE cards :/

Looks like I broke a rule linking that card and they banned that account. My apologies to the mods was just trying to be helpful. :(

As to your question after setting the card to maximum power in the driver settings it boosts the gpu core to just over 1900mhz and the temps are in the 60~70c range running games like fortnite and conan exiles at 4k ultra. I have them locked at 60 since that's the tcl tv's refresh rate and unlocked frames are in the low hundreds but then the card spikes past 80c with the fan at 100%. Fan noise I can't hear but the case is under the desk and I use headphones. It may well perform less than say an evga with the acx coolers but I came from an evga gtx 960 ftw so its all gravy to me. :rockout:
 
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When I heard AMD was buying out ATI I had a mixed reaction.
Not here, I was totally against it.
I was like, on one side "maybe Ruby will finally go away..."
Really? What better way to show off your tech than with gloriously realistic bouncing boobies? Seriously the world's primary audience at the that time were males. While there are more women in gaming, it's still predominantly guys.
What did getting rid of Ruby cost us? Everything.
To be fair AMD has done well with ATI's asset's.
Or I'm a SJW who wants to take all your fun away. Take your pick. :)
You're funny!

I'm very certain that AMD has an answer in store for RTX. When and how good it is are the only questions.
 
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To be fair AMD has done well with ATI's asset's.
A rather brave thesis... considering the tech quality and market share ATI had in 2006.

That's a good material for all the conspiracy theory believers on the forum. If AMD didn't buy ATI, we might still have a 50:50 dGPU market...
I'm very certain that AMD has an answer in store for RTX. When and how good it is are the only questions.
Well, there is another interesting questions.
How will all AMD fanboys react to AMD releasing Tensor and RT core alternatives?
We know what they said about RTX. :)
It seems Tensor alternative is in in development and could arrive with Navi already.
 
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It was never 50/50. Ever.
Well... I don't remember exact figures, but I do remember ATI was leading around 2004, so this graph is plausible.

 
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Well... I don't remember exact figures, but I do remember ATI was leading around 2004, so this graph is plausible.

There have been a few brief cross-over points, sure, but nothing sustained. It's important to remember at that time there were still a few smaller yet viable alternatives to ATI and NVidia. So a true 50/50 was not possible at that time.
 
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AMD have competed just fine, the only thing they have lost out in is the top, high end: ie: 1080ti. They were competitive all the way from the low end to 1070 and 1080 (Vega 56/64) just couldnt compete with 1080ti and let's face it, thats probably 5% of all NVIDIA users.

Exactly. I mean wasn't the RX 580 one of the best selling GPUs like ever?

Anyways, the new RTX cards are not worth it for what they are- the RTX 2080ti offers a 80% price mark-up from the GTX 1080ti at only a 30% performance boost. Absolutely ridiculous. These cards aren't going to do well at the moment, but they are going to make the GTX and Vega cards plummet which I guess is a good thing for us.
 
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Exactly. I mean wasn't the RX 580 one of the best selling GPUs like ever?

Anyways, the new RTX cards are not worth it for what they are- the RTX 2080ti offers a 80% price mark-up from the GTX 1080ti at only a 30% performance boost. Absolutely ridiculous. These cards aren't going to do well at the moment, but they are going to make the GTX and Vega cards plummet which I guess is a good thing for us.
I use 3 in trifire on a 50" 4k tv , for 660£ they give really good performance , the wattage sucks at 360 for all three but lots of fps for moderate clocks.
Not a bad choice for dx11 based games.


They sold a fair few it's fair to say.
 

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Well, RX580 sales figures (and all others from the same time period) are going to be outliers, thanks to the mining boom. It was hardly business as usual for either AMD or nVidia.

That graph from 3/14 onwards really shows RTG's lack of innovation, though. Since R200 it's been tweaks, rebrands, tweaked rebrands and rebranded tweaks... oh look, a squirrel!
 
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Jack of all trades,master of none. Good for the company,but if a consumer has a very particular focus they'll likely go nvidia.
Yeah, I hadn't quite thought of it that way, but yeah, that's the route AMD chose to go. AMD doesn't have the resources (monetary and manpower) to keep up with nVidia on the gaming front, but they do make pretty good gaming cards that are wallet friendly (can't blame them for the mining craze and inflated costs of their cards). Like now, after the mining craze, I can snag an RX 580 8GB for less than a GTX1060......but, I'm actually waiting for a VEGA to turn up at a more reasonable price.

Meanwhile, being an AMD fanboy isn't stopping me from getting nVidia cards since I do game a bit now that I'm retired. Snagged a used Leadtek GTX 1080 for 330'ish USD (great value in my neck of the woods) for use on my 4k TV.


Since I now have the time to play more games, I was thinking that the 2x R9 290X in my main rig isn't quite doing it for me (had to turn down some ingame setting due to 4GB VRAM limitation) @3440x1440. I had lunch with my friend (and his son) yesterday and we decided to pop in on a local tech mall as he'd wanted to get a couple of keyboards. I stumbled into one of the shops and was stunned at the number of RTX2080's and RTX 2080 Ti's that were on the shelves. Made an impulse buy and went for the cheapest RTX 2080 Ti available, a Palit RTX 2080 Ti Gaming Pro OC, cost me a pretty penny but I guess I'll make more use of it since I do have plenty of free time now.


Right now, AMD has nothing to match this card, but I'm hopeful that they would come out with something spectacular on the GPU front, much like what they'd done on the CPU front with Zen. Meanwhile, I'll be replacing the dual GTX Titan 6GB in my 3rd rig (selling off the cards) and replacing them with the dual R9 290X'es.....just so I can keep waving the AMD flag.
 
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There have been a few brief cross-over points, sure, but nothing sustained. It's important to remember at that time there were still a few smaller yet viable alternatives to ATI and NVidia. So a true 50/50 was not possible at that time.
LOL you're really holding on to your theories. Was this graph a surprise or what? :)
Yes, you're right. I'm sure there wasn't a year where Nvidia sold 14818297 GPUs and AMD sold 14818297 as well. Nvidia might have sold 14818298, so not a 50:50 market.
And of course there is also Matrox! I'm sure they've easily sold like 17 cards.

Anyway, the period where the gap was around 10 percentage points was pretty much 3 years. That's 2 chip generations. I'd call that "sustained".
 
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Was this graph a surprise or what? :)
I think you're putting way too much stock in this one graph, from one source. Got any more sources? And at the time Matrox had a healthy, if small, presence. Then you left out Intel and AMD inhouse GPU's. If you are going to compare GPU's that can be gamed on for the PC platform, you have to include all options, no matter how small.
Anyway, the period where the gap was around 10 percentage points was pretty much 3 years. That's 2 chip generations. I'd call that "sustained".
You can call it whatever you wish, by the graph you supplied, it doesn't look that way. Not even close.

Regardless, we're off topic, let's rope it back in..
 
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eidairaman1

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Those who spend over 500 on a consumer gpu need to rethink priorities and realize if bulk refuses to pay they will eventually have to drop prices
 
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Those who spend over 500 on a consumer gpu need to rethink priorities and realize if bulk refuses to pay they will eventually have to drop prices

Slightly off subject, but do you think AMD's Navi cards will be resonanably priced to combat Nvidia's RTX cards?
 
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Slightly off subject, but do you think AMD's Navi cards will be resonanably priced to combat Nvidia's RTX cards?

Yeah, AMD owns the middle low class card devision/s. they will be aiming at that again, OR rather assume they will or take a big leap over green team
 
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LOL you're really holding on to your theories. Was this graph a surprise or what? :)
Yes, you're right. I'm sure there wasn't a year where Nvidia sold 14818297 GPUs and AMD sold 14818297 as well. Nvidia might have sold 14818298, so not a 50:50 market.
And of course there is also Matrox! I'm sure they've easily sold like 17 cards.

Anyway, the period where the gap was around 10 percentage points was pretty much 3 years. That's 2 chip generations. I'd call that "sustained".

Don't worry about it, its obvious @lexluthermiester is in denial about AMD market/mindshare... RX580 sold like hotcakes, in spite of AMD still hovering around 30% market share regardless, and that includes cards sold to miners. No less than a couple of months ago, news hit of an 80-20 split on the discrete gaming market.

But hey, they sold fantastically. Market share soared from 27% in 2016 to 30% now - with some wishful thinking involved. In the meantime, RX x80 cards were hard to find for years while the 1060's were flying around in people's gaming rigs. If you look on any gaming related forum you can easily see the same 70-30 split (or worse, 80-20 or 90-10, never better) when it comes to number of topics about Nvidia cards as opposed to AMD cards. But, don't go on that either, it can't be credible, surely AMD sold more inferior product. If you look at Steam Survey, you can see an even worse number of RX480/580 cards compared to 1060's. And that's just 1060's...

Oh, and Lex also seems to know AMD has a perfect answer for Tensor / RTRT as well. I can't wait! :roll:

Stop mixing up wishful thinking with reality... Every trend completely counters everything you say here.
 
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