How to push past 5Ghz on 8700K?

[silkstone]

Hi All,

Question for anyone who has got past the 5 ghz barrier on coffee lake chips.

I'm currently at 5 Ghz @ 1.415v and LLC of extreme. My temps seem pretty reasonable at ~72 C average and some spikes into the low 90's.
What settings do I need to look at next to getting past this level? My voltage seems a little high, and I'm hoping to run 24/7 so while I know I can likely get more speed out of more volts, is there anything else I can do for higher overclocks 24/7?

 

[EarthDog]

I'd call you maxed out. 1.41V 24/7 is a lot and if you are reaching into the low 90s, that's it on temps too...

What did you use to stress test and reach those temps? Avg means little, note.

Edit: you seem to have a negative offset?? Your settings confuse me. You have 1.3V set, an offset of -.11 LLC on extreme and reach. 1.41V on load?

System agent and vccio are likely a bit high for 16gb running at 3600mhz... I don't imagine either needing over 1v...

 

[FreedomEclipse]

Delidding might help. I say 'might' - yes, no, maybe. Who knows

 

[bonehead123]

Just bump everything upwards by 50%, then pray you don't fry it hahahahahah

j/k

 

[silkstone]

I'd call you maxed out. 1.41V 24/7 is a lot and if you are reaching into the low 90s, that's it on temps too...

What did you use to stress test and reach those temps? Avg means little, note.

Edit: you seem to have a negative offset?? Your settings confuse me. You have 1.3V set, an offset of -.11 LLC on extreme and reach. 1.41V on load?

System avent and vcci are likely a bit high for 16gb running at 3600mhz... I don't imagine either needing over 1v...

My settings confuse me as well, which is why I'm reaching out. Yeah. I had to set voltages manually to get 1.41, otherwise, it would automatically pump the voltage up to 1.5v!
Same story with the System Agent and VCCIO, I dropped them from 1.25 V. I'll try lowering them some more and test whether it's still stable.

The CPU is delidded and I'm stressing with AIDA, which is a pretty extreme test so temps never get that high in real world use. But, my aim is to get stability under this test.

 

[EarthDog]

I don't usually run a dynamic/offset in any way. I manually set things from the BIOS, not windows.

I would use 1.4V set manually and see what LLC is really needed to keep the load voltage the same as what you set in the BIOS. That is typically how it (LLC) should be used. Your negative offset and then LLC bumping it back up seems incredibly counterproductive.

But yeah, System agent and VCCIO look high for the settings. You may be able to shave a degree or two off, but, you are tapped out temp wise currently. If you cannot beng Vcore and temps down, then you are where you are with this CPU.

 

[silkstone]

I don't usually run a dynamic/offset in any way. I manually set things from the BIOS, not windows.

I would use 1.4V set manually and see what LLC is really needed to keep the load voltage the same as what you set in the BIOS. That is typically how it (LLC) should be used. Your negative offset and then LLC bumping it back up seems incredibly counterproductive.

But yeah, System agent and VCCIO look high for the settings. You may be able to shave a degree or two off, but, you are tapped out temp wise currently. If you cannot beng Vcore and temps down, then you are where you are with this CPU.

I just use the windows tool for testing values then set everything in the Bios.

I guess I don't get how LLC works, it doesn't seem to matter whether I put it as normal/high/extreme, it doesn't effect the load voltage.

Wouldn't manually setting the voltage keep it continually running at 1.4V? I'd like it to go down, when the cores are idle.

 

[EarthDog]

LLC prevents vdroop (the difference between idle and load voltage). Ideally, you should use the setting that has the voltage stay the same under load. To test, disable it(set to lowest if disabling isn't possible), and check load voltage... set to extreme, then run again... you should see a difference, then know which will be which. I don't know if using adaptive/offset works with LLC... again, I leave my voltage set manually so it is static (done so for decades, note).

Yes, you would be at 1.4V.

 

[silkstone]

LLC prevents vdroop (the difference between idle and load voltage). Ideally, you should use the setting that has the voltage stay the same under load. To test, disable it(set to lowest if disabling isn't possible), and check load voltage... set to extreme, then run again... you should see a difference, then know which will be which. I don't know if using adaptive/offset works with LLC... again, I leave my voltage set manually so it is static (done so for decades, note).

Yes, you would be at 1.4V.

I set it manually to 1.415 and disabled LLC, the computer instantly bluescreened

Setting to 1.415 and LLC highest causes VCore to jump to 1.428 on load from 1.415 on idle, but it's stable

 

[EarthDog]

Now try extreme... see if it works.....obviously 1.41V and no LLC has some droop and isn't stable.

You may need to lower your core clocks so it at least boots and runs a quick stress test to see the voltage change from off to extreme.

 

[silkstone]

Now try extreme... see if it works.....obviously 1.41V and no LLC has some droop and isn't stable.

You may need to lower your core clocks so it at least boots and runs a quick stress test to see the voltage.

Yeah, it works on turbo/extreme, though I have to set it to 1.405 and it jumps to 1.415 on load.

Excuse my ignorance, this is the first real attempt at tweaking an overclock since my 2500K. Why would this be better than setting dynamic offset whereby the voltage will lower itself when idle?

 

[EarthDog]

It isn't better, per say... just the way I do it. Most prefer to have the voltage drop, but, Im from the old school and, frankly, don't care about playing games with offset and dynamic voltages...

I simply cannot make heads or tails of how you come to 1.4xV. Looking at your screenshot, you have 1.3V set, a NEGATIVE offset for voltage, and you are managing to reach 1.428V... that doesn't make sense to me at all...

EDIT: Changing variables (vcore) isn't going to help determine what LLC setting yields the least/no droop. You don't want to overshoot it either. Leave it at a voltage and lower the core to isolate.

EDIT2: Honestly, I think you are at the limits as I said out of the gate. Temperatures are at the limit and the voltage is too...

 

[silkstone]

It isn't better, per say... just the way I do it. Most prefer to have the voltage drop, but, Im from the old school and, frankly, don't care about playing games with offset and dynamic voltages...

I simply cannot make heads or tails of how you come to 1.4xV. Looking at your screenshot, you have 1.3V set, a NEGATIVE offset for voltage, and you are managing to reach 1.428V... that doesn't make sense to me at all...

EDIT: Changing variables (vcore) isn't going to help determine what LLC setting yields the least/no droop. You don't want to overshoot it either. Leave it at a voltage and lower the core to isolate.

EDIT2: Honestly, I think you are at the limits as I said out of the gate. Temperatures are at the limit and the voltage is too...

Oh, I see what you mean. Dropping the offset to high (instead of Turbo) and Offset to -1.0 makes the voltage on load jump between 1.404 and 1.415.
Let me try with static . . .
Okay . . High LLC cause the voltage to drop by 0.25 V, Turbo LLC raises the voltage by 0.1 V

I'm testing stability now at -1 V offset, High LLC. This puts the core at an average of 1.406V (though I see jumps to 1.416 and drops to 1.39)

Edit - I think you're right about the limits. Though I am making progress on Temps, If It's stable.
I've down to 1.404 V LLC Turbo Max temp is 88 (Though it's only been 4 mins into the stability test)

Edit 2 - Should I play with disabling AVX and then setting an AVX offset in Bios? The stability test I am using has AVXC enabled at the moment.

 

[EarthDog]

0.25V was that correct? That is a HUGE (unbelievably huge) drop...

Due to using an offset, I am not sure we have any idea what is really the stock voltage (hence why I run manually). I'm not going to be much help with playing the offset/dynamic voltage game as it isn't a game I play. Sorry.

BUt either way you slice it, you are maxed out on temps and voltage.

 

[silkstone]

0.25V was that correct? That is a HUGE (unbelievably huge) drop...

Due to using an offset, I am not sure we have any idea what is really the stock voltage (hence why I run manually). I'm not going to be much help with playing the offset/dynamic voltage game as it isn't a game I play. Sorry.

BUt either way you slice it, you are maxed out on temps and voltage.

My bad, I forgot a zero. 0.025 V. That is a drop with Static voltage enabled. With offset, the voltage variation is minor when loaded. It obviouslly drops when idle though.

I might have some luck disabling AVX in my benchmark. I got about 5 mins of stability at 5.1 Ghz with AVX disabled at 1.405 V

 

[EarthDog]

I wouldn't do that, personally... more and more things are using AVX instructions and if you aren't stable, it will show when using such. The way to work around that is to use an AVX offset for the core speed. Typically this is 200-300 MHz.

 

[silkstone]

I wouldn't do that, personally... more and more things are using AVX instructions and if you aren't stable, it will show when using such. The way to work around that is to use an AVX offset for the core speed. Typically this is 200-300 MHz.

Yeah, though if I can get 5.2 stable without AVX, can I just set the offset in bios to 200 MHz and then have it stable with and without AVX?

 

[JackCarver]

I have an Core i7 8700K@5 GHz with 1.36V. It is delidded and watercooled, so temps reaching at highest 60 degrees in prime 95. I would recommend to set your voltage manually, not dynamic and test how much voltage you need to reach your goals. Loadline Calibration use a mode with a flat line, so that voltage in idle is same as voltage under load. AVX Offset of -2 or -3, means -200 or -300 MHz should be fine, i have an negative offset of -2 for AVX instructions. So if you set your offset in BIOS to -200 or -300 MHz you can run your CPU stable at 5.2 GHz in non AVX instructions and 5 GHz or 4.9 GHz with AVX instructions.

Edit:
For testing you can use Prime 95 Version 26.6 for non AVX usage cause this version doesn't has AVX tests. So you can see if your CPU is stable at 5.2 GHz
Then use the latest Prime 95 Version with AVX for testing and you can see if your offset is fine or if you need another offset.

In Prime I use the following settings:
Custom Torture Test
Min FFT Size 1344, max FFT Size 1344
Run FFT in place

Run each test for 30 min, that should be enough

Edit 2:
There are also a few options you might look at. Don't know how it is named by Gigabyte but MSI names it:

- Long Duration Power Limit
- Short Duration Power Limit
- CPU Current Limit

Their usage is to set how much current the cpu can draw and you can push it to max. I have Long Duration Limit and Short Duration Limit of 4096 and CPU Current Limit of 256 which is max on my MSI Board. Also I set System over Current Protection to 140%. With this settings your CPU can use much more TDP values as it is specified. In a test with latest Prime 95 my CPU reaches 210 Watts at max although it is specified as 95 Watts TDP.

 

[Ruru]

Delidding might help. I say 'might' - yes, no, maybe. Who knows

At least it did with 7700K. 5.2GHz (AVX -2) stable with Alphacool Eisbaer 240. Without delidding, 5GHz was the absolute maximum.

 

[EarthDog]

Delidding might help. I say 'might' - yes, no, maybe. Who knows

At least it did with 7700K. 5.2GHz (AVX -2) stable with Alphacool Eisbaer 240. Without delidding, 5GHz was the absolute maximum.

He has already delidded.

 

[Ruru]

He has already delidded.

Ok, I guess I need more coffee since I missed that.

 

[Vayra86]

My thought before entering the topic was a comment along the lines of "set multiplier at 51, done"...

But yeah. 1.4V and up and you're well into the danger zone for longevity and diminishing returns.

As for lowering VCCIO and SA below 1V... My 8700K started spitting out WATCHDOG_ERROR BSODs when I did that. And that is with slower sticks too. Its lottery just like the rest of these tweaks...

 

[JackCarver]

I wouldn't go much higher than 1.4V and of course setting higher voltage will reduce life span, but it will easy last for 5 years. Without OC it will last 7-8 years but most people doing oc are enthusiasts buying a new system much earlier.

 

[silkstone]

I wouldn't go much higher than 1.4V and of course setting higher voltage will reduce life span, but it will easy last for 5 years. Without OC it will last 7-8 years but most people doing oc are enthusiasts buying a new system much earlier.

Thanks. I'm working on Voltage now then. . . I guess if It can't get past 5 Ghz on 1.415, it's not worth it.

At the moment, I am down to 1.39 V @ 5GHz . . . Testing stability now.
I may try pushing it back up and disabling AVX after I find the lower limits of the voltage.

 

[JackCarver]

Important is that your cooling is good enough, so that your CPU doesn't get too high and also your Mainboards VRM, cause they also have more work on OC systems. The Voltage at around 1.4V is ok then if you have good temps.