How to push past 5Ghz on 8700K?

[silkstone]

Important is that your cooling is good enough, so that your CPU doesn't get too high and also your Mainboards VRM, cause they also have more work on OC systems. The Voltage at around 1.4V is ok then if you have good temps.

I'm aiming for under 90 C spikes in AIDA Extreme. I've pushed the voltage back up to 1.4 V from 1.39 as it wasn't stable
I guess the chip is only mediocre, even when delidded. I'd hoped for more, but Before I started, I was only getting 4.6 on all core boost.

 

[JackCarver]

Try testing with Prime95 Version 26.6 First, cause it has no AVX instructions. Try the settings I posted earlier and do it for about 30 mins. If you don‘t get any errors or Blue Screens you are fine. Then use latest Prime95 version with AVX support and test again to see if your offset is fine. Monitor the test with CPU-Z and CPUID Hardware Monitor to see voltages and temps. If both tests run stable for at least 30 mins you are fine.

 

[Vayra86]

I wouldn't go much higher than 1.4V and of course setting higher voltage will reduce life span, but it will easy last for 5 years. Without OC it will last 7-8 years but most people doing oc are enthusiasts buying a new system much earlier.

Its still nice to be able to resell these CPUs or use them in another system for someone else, like the kids... and its even nicer if you didn't burn the CPU to a crisp by then just so you could grab that last 100mhz. Because that's what this is most of the time. So I wouldn't say 'enthusiast, so its fine'... its very clear this is a case of minimal gains at high cost. Its fine to go there, but let's not fool each other. These high end CPUs will remain relevant for quite some time.

A CPU with mild/ non extreme OC can easily last 10+ years without showing degradation (depending on how tight your OC is voltage wise). Go beyond feasible and that number goes down fast. Its even plausible that mild OC will improve longevity because you're also going to look at the spiky voltage behavior; lowering VCCIO/SA is beneficial and stock voltages always have some headroom.

I'm aiming for under 90 C spikes in AIDA Extreme. I've pushed the voltage back up to 1.4 V from 1.39 as it wasn't stable
I guess the chip is only mediocre, even when delidded. I'd hoped for more, but Before I started, I was only getting 3.6 on all core boost.

Join the club. Mine is so-so as well. I've opted for going back to 4.6 Ghz all core (!) but then with rather low vcore, of 1.21-23V its not like I'm missing performance atm. And it is still not a very cool CPU.

Note: getting knocked back to 3.6 base clock is a sign your CPU ran into short or long duration power limit, use the highest or a custom number there. Its Intel's way of limiting TDP over prolonged load.

 

[Crowley]

I'm aiming for under 90 C spikes in AIDA Extreme. I've pushed the voltage back up to 1.4 V from 1.39 as it wasn't stable
I guess the chip is only mediocre, even when delidded. I'd hoped for more, but Before I started, I was only getting 3.6 on all core boost.

Only getting 3.6 on all core is a problem. Without touching any settings you should be getting 4.3 on all cores. Right now I run 4.7 on all cores with only enabling Enhanced mode on my Z390 Aurous Pro. I didn't touch any of the voltage settings and just left them at auto. I do have a Corsair H115i water cooler on it and during gaming sessions or Folding at Home I don't see temps above low 70's

 

[JackCarver]

Yeah long duration and short duration power Limit needs to be raised up

Its still nice to be able to resell these CPUs or use them in another system for someone else, like the kids... and its even nicer if you didn't burn the CPU to a crisp by then just so you could grab that last 100mhz. Because that's what this is most of the time. So I wouldn't say 'enthusiast, so its fine'... its very clear this is a case of minimal gains at high cost. Its fine to go there, but let's not fool each other. These high end CPUs will remain relevant for quite some time.

A CPU with mild/ non extreme OC can easily last 10+ years without showing degradation (depending on how tight your OC is voltage wise). Go beyond feasible and that number goes down fast. Its even plausible that mild OC will improve longevity because you're also going to look at the spiky voltage behavior; lowering VCCIO/SA is beneficial and stock voltages always have some headroom.

Yes the benefit isn't that much, you can measure it in benchmarks but mostly you won't feel it. But on the other side water colling the entire system is also not necessary but it makes fun ;-)
I think it's like tuning a car, not necessary at all but fun. And I mean that most Core i7 8700K make that 5GHz with moderate voltage settings like 1.3-1.36.

Beyond 5GHz you need a very good CPU that you can reach it below 1.4V.

 

[silkstone]

Only getting 3.6 on all core is a problem. Without touching any settings you should be getting 4.3 on all cores. Right now I run 4.7 on all cores with only enabling Enhanced mode on my Z390 Aurous Pro. I didn't touch any of the voltage settings and just left them at auto. I do have a Corsair H115i water cooler on it and during gaming sessions or Folding at Home I don't see temps above low 70's

My apologies, it was late when I was writing that. I meant 4.6 Ghz (it was also using more voltage)

Urgh and back at 4.8 Ghz.

I'm not sure how or why, but even the old settings are now unstable at 5 GHz. I need to go back through everything
I'll try with static voltage control this time to see whether that makes a difference.

 

[JackCarver]

Yes try static voltage setting. It‘s more reliable than the dynamic modes. The only downside to dynamic modes is that voltage isn‘t lowered or raised while the frequency goes up and down. You still remain at fix voltage but for higher oc this is more reliable. Try 1.35 to 1.36v for 5 GHz all Core Turbo with AVX Offset of -2 or -3, this should be sufficient. If you go higher than 5 GHz then slightly raise voltage till you get it stable and test after each step.

 

[silkstone]

Yes try static voltage setting. It‘s more reliable than the dynamic modes. The only downside to dynamic modes is that voltage isn‘t lowered or raised while the frequency goes up and down. You still remain at fix voltage but for higher oc this is more reliable. Try 1.35 to 1.36v for 5 GHz all Core Turbo with AVX Offset of -2 or -3, this should be sufficient. If you go higher than 5 GHz then slightly raise voltage till you get it stable and test after each step.

Thanks.

I know it's stable at 1.4V (1.415 Real V) @5Ghz. I'm testing 1.39 V (1.405 Real V) @5Ghz for stability now.

No AVX offset.

Question. Is it safe to run at this voltage 24/7?

Edit - Additional Question: What voltages should I trust? I just downloaded HWInfo and it gives VID of under 1.37, but both AIDA and Gigabyte monitor give around 1.405 V
VID isn't the voltage supplied, I'm not sure how to use it to help overclock tho.

Edit 2 - At manual voltages, should I be changing the AC/DC LLC limits? I came across a post below, but it's pretty confusing. At the moment HW info is reporting my IA Domain Loadline as 1.7/1.7 MOhm and GT Domain LL at 3.1/3.1 MOhm

Understanding LLC & Voltage readings (8700k Overclock)

Hi all, In the past I've followed overclocking guides & YouTube videos where there is little thought involved (On my behalf - Not to discredit the authors) and have blindly followed their advice - I'm now trying to steer away from this and gain an understanding of how each setting works. To s...

linustechtips.com

Thanks for any help.

 

[JackCarver]

I would suggest using an AVX offset. Only a few apps use AVX instructions, so it would be no problem running those apps with 200 or 300MHz below. I have an AVX offset of -3 and an all core turbo of 5 GHz which means in AVX apps the cpu runs at 4.7 and in non AVX apps with 5 GHz. You can easily reach those 5 GHz with lower voltage settings if you are using an AVX offset. AVX also heats up the cpu, so with offset it will stay cooler.

If your temps are ok and not too high, then those 1.4V are ok for 24/7 usage. I would monitor the temps in every day usage scenarios, so that you can see how far the cpu heats up in gaming, rendering or what you are using mostly. If you stay at max in the 70's or low 80's then there is no problem, you can use CoreTemp or similar apps to monitor your temps.

VID is not the voltage your cpu runs at, it is only a value from Intel which voltage is needed for which frequency. As an example the VID for 1.5 GHz may be 0.8V. So this is used in dynamic modes from your mainboards BIOS to supply your CPU with the right voltage according to the CPUs frequency. It helps nothing to overclock, you use static vcore and you have to test which vcore is needed that your cpu is stable at for example 5 GHz all core turbo. Test with prime 95 and when you get the needed vcore, then your cpu runs always at this vcore independent of the frequency. VID is only important if you use dynamic modes.

You should be using an LLC mode where the vcore in idle is same as vcore under load. You can use CPU-Z to monitor your vcore in idle and in benchmarks. It should not vary too much between idle and load, then it is ok. If you use an LLC mode where vcore under load is lower than vcore in idle, that's named VDROOP and that's the way Intel wants it, then you have to set a much higher idle vcore to get stable under load. For example you are stable under load at 1.35 GHz and you have a VDROOP of -0.05V, then you need an idle vcore of 1.4V to get stable under load. So much too high as what you need.
If you use an LLC mode where vcore idle=vcore load then you only need 1.35V.

 

[silkstone]

Thanks.
I'm testing now at 1.38 V LLC High. For some reason, unlike higher voltages, this LLC results in little VDroop. (0.01-0.005)

Temps are spiking to low 90's on one core, but briefly and are otherwise spiking to low 80's on AIDA with AVX.

I'm going to keep dropping voltage until it becomes unstable and then raise it a few levels

 

[EarthDog]

I would suggest using an AVX offset. Only a few apps use AVX instructions, so it would be no problem running those apps with 200 or 300MHz below. I have an AVX offset of -3 and an all core turbo of 5 GHz which means in AVX apps the cpu runs at 4.7 and in non AVX apps with 5 GHz. You can easily reach those 5 GHz with lower voltage settings if you are using an AVX offset. AVX also heats up the cpu, so with offset it will stay cooler.

If your temps are ok and not too high, then those 1.4V are ok for 24/7 usage. I would monitor the temps in every day usage scenarios, so that you can see how far the cpu heats up in gaming, rendering or what you are using mostly. If you stay at max in the 70's or low 80's then there is no problem, you can use CoreTemp or similar apps to monitor your temps.

VID is not the voltage your cpu runs at, it is only a value from Intel which voltage is needed for which frequency. As an example the VID for 1.5 GHz may be 0.8V. So this is used in dynamic modes from your mainboards BIOS to supply your CPU with the right voltage according to the CPUs frequency. It helps nothing to overclock, you use static vcore and you have to test which vcore is needed that your cpu is stable at for example 5 GHz all core turbo. Test with prime 95 and when you get the needed vcore, then your cpu runs always at this vcore independent of the frequency. VID is only important if you use dynamic modes.

You should be using an LLC mode where the vcore in idle is same as vcore under load. You can use CPU-Z to monitor your vcore in idle and in benchmarks. It should not vary too much between idle and load, then it is ok. If you use an LLC mode where vcore under load is lower than vcore in idle, that's named VDROOP and that's the way Intel wants it, then you have to set a much higher idle vcore to get stable under load. For example you are stable under load at 1.35 GHz and you have a VDROOP of -0.05V, then you need an idle vcore of 1.4V to get stable under load. So much too high as what you need.
If you use an LLC mode where vcore idle=vcore load then you only need 1.35V.

Yep! I said all of this earlier!

 

[JackCarver]

LLC mode is good and benchmark temps also. In most every day apps your cpu won't get as high as in benchmarks

Yep! I said all of this earlier!

Yeah that's true

 

[Vario]

Thanks.
I'm testing now at 1.38 V LLC High. For some reason, unlike higher voltages, this LLC results in little VDroop. (0.01-0.005)

Temps are spiking to low 90's on one core, but briefly and are otherwise spiking to low 80's on AIDA with AVX.

I'm going to keep dropping voltage until it becomes unstable and then raise it a few levels

My advice is to just drop it down to 4.8 and you won't notice any difference in frame rate, but you will use less voltage and generate less heat.

 

[Vayra86]

Thanks.
I'm testing now at 1.38 V LLC High. For some reason, unlike higher voltages, this LLC results in little VDroop. (0.01-0.005)

Temps are spiking to low 90's on one core, but briefly and are otherwise spiking to low 80's on AIDA with AVX.

I'm going to keep dropping voltage until it becomes unstable and then raise it a few levels

Good man, if you spike to 88-90C, its time to back down a little. Keep in mind, its not summer anymore either...

The spiky behavior is so crap with these CPUs, it really is a limiting factor. VCCIO/SA voltage reduction does some positive work here, but its really hard to get them out completely - I didn't manage to.

Funny to read your LLC is also wonky... One thing to keep in mind is that Intel also sets a voltage table for each multiplier as a base for these CPUs and if you use offset voltage, you will see different volts at different clocks with the same settings. So losing frequency also drops voltage even if you may not intend it to. That's also how the AVX offset works (and why I don't fancy using it, because there is AVX code in many applications and also in games. Fire up Overwatch = AVX.)

Like @Vario said, don't go hard on the 5 Ghz but instead find a middle ground, just 100mhz less can make life alot easier. I will say, I thought I was fine at 4.7 last summer and then poof, BSOD on starting Overwatch 100C exceeded.

 

[Deleted member 185158]

At 5.4ghz 1.510v HT disabled.

Cache at 4.8ghz.

Max temp 73c.

I use this setting for benchmarking only.

 

[silkstone]

Good man, if you spike to 88-90C, its time to back down a little. Keep in mind, its not summer anymore either...

The spiky behavior is so crap with these CPUs, it really is a limiting factor. VCCIO/SA voltage reduction does some positive work here, but its really hard to get them out completely - I didn't manage to.

Funny to read your LLC is also wonky... One thing to keep in mind is that Intel also sets a voltage table for each multiplier as a base for these CPUs and if you use offset voltage, you will see different volts at different clocks with the same settings. So losing frequency also drops voltage even if you may not intend it to. That's also how the AVX offset works (and why I don't fancy using it, because there is AVX code in many applications and also in games. Fire up Overwatch = AVX.)

Like @Vario said, don't go hard on the 5 Ghz but instead find a middle ground, just 100mhz less can make life alot easier. I will say, I thought I was fine at 4.7 last summer and then poof, BSOD on starting Overwatch 100C exceeded.

Hehe, I live in a place where the only season is summer. I'm down at areound 1.38 V stable right now @ Turbo LLC, spikes into high 80's on temps so am making good progress.
It's just really time-consuming retesting and watching/waiting for voltage spikes. So far they don't seem too high.

 

[EarthDog]

Why are you looking for voltage spikes? It shouldn't be doing that once you have the LLC and other voltage set.

 

[JackCarver]

Well there are always voltage spikes when the cpu goes from idle to load and vice versa. That's because the VRMs cannot immediately provide the exact voltage when the state changes, it always comes to voltage over- and undershoot. I mean this effect is even higher when the state changes from idle to load and that's the reason Intel wants the loadline to provide less voltage under load. So the spikes won't exceed the critic voltage. But for all I know you can't see those spikes with tools like CPU-Z or HW-Monitor the only possibility to see them is an oscilloscope.

 

[EarthDog]

Well there are always voltage spikes when the cpu goes from idle to load and vice versa. That's because the VRMs cannot immediately provide the exact voltage when the state changes, it always comes to voltage over- and undershoot. I mean this effect is even higher when the state changes from idle to load and that's the reason Intel wants the loadline to provide less voltage under load. So the spikes won't exceed the critic voltage. But for all I know you can't see those spikes with tools like CPU-Z or HW-Monitor the only possibility to see them is an oscilloscope.

Yes... and yes for the part where you cant really catch it. I d9nt think silk is talking about transient loads however.

EDIT: All I am saying here is once you set the voltage and LLC, you won't be seeing any spikes... so just test.

 

[silkstone]

I'm seeing spikes up to 1.488 volts right now while keeping the sensor software open.
That's with 'Turbo' LLC, so I may need to go back and recalibrate.

 

[EarthDog]

Are you back on dynamic/offset? You shouldn't see any with manual/static. Using dynamic/offset will always show higher voltage because it is using the VID for the multiplier +/- your offset.

 

[JackCarver]

According to other tests of Z370 Gigabyte Boards out there, trhey all use Turbo Mode for LLC. This should work. Do you use the latest BIOS version? Perhaps you need a BIOS reset before and then set the values again.

Edit:
If you did a BIOS update before then do also BIOS reset.

 

[silkstone]

Are you back on dynamic/offset? You shouldn't see any with manual/static. Using dynamic/offset will always show higher voltage because it is using the VID for the multiplier +/- your offset.

Nope, I'm on manual. The spikes are few and far between. If I leave HWInfo open in the background, it will eventually show 1.488 V as a max, but this doesn't happen on load

 

[TxGrin]

The i9-9900ks will do 5.3Ghz with 1.32 voltage

Intel Core i9 @ 5302.86 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR

[cs4dc6] Validated Dump by DESKTOP-SLI (2019-11-03 15:48:39) - MB: Gigabyte Z390 AORUS MASTER-CF - RAM: 32768 MB

valid.x86.fr

 

[silkstone]

The i9-9900ks will do 5.3Ghz with 1.32 voltage

Intel Core i9 @ 5302.86 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR

[cs4dc6] Validated Dump by DESKTOP-SLI (2019-11-03 15:48:39) - MB: Gigabyte Z390 AORUS MASTER-CF - RAM: 32768 MB

valid.x86.fr

Very nice. I don't think I want to upgrade just yet though. I'm hoping this chip lasts me at least another 4 generations. My most recent upgrade path has been from E3110 - i5 2500K - 8700K. I try to run my hardware until it becomes almost obsolete.
Similar story with GPUs. 4850 - 6970 - 1060 - 1080Ti (the last upgrade to 1080Ti paid for itself through mining)