Reallocated Sectors Count - Time for a new HDD?

[lexluthermiester]

and only when it can't be moved or recovered, does it mark it as unrecoverable, but reallocated sectors means that it was moved without issue.

That is only partly true. When a drive controller detects a defect or a failing sector that has not yet failed, it will attempt to copy the data in said sector to an nearby sector that is marked as "free" or "unused" and will then mark the failing or defective sector as bad.

The SSD argument interests me greatly.

That one is simple. NAND cells have a limited number of Program/Erase cycles. When the cell wears out, it becomes non-functional. SLC, is the most durable as well manufactured SLC can easily last 200,000 P/E cycles. MLC can last up to 30,000 cycles(depending on how it's made and used). TLC can last up to 8,000 cycles. QLC is literal garbage as it will last only upto 1,100(at best). QLC should NEVER be used for mission critical or OS storage.

This was off topic but I wanted to address your comment...

 

[djisas]

That is only partly true. When a drive controller detects a defect or a failing sector that has not yet failed, it will attempt to copy the data in said sector to an nearby sector that is marked as "free" or "unused" and will then mark the failing or defective sector as bad.


That one is simple. NAND cells have a limited number of Program/Erase cycles. When the cell wears out, it become non-functional. SLC, is the most durable as well manufacture SLC can easily last 200,000 P/E cycles. MLC can last up to 30,000 cycles(depending on how it's made and used). TLC can last up to 8,000 cycles. QLC is literal garbage as it will last only upto 1,100. QLC should NEVER be used for mission critical or OS storage.

This was off topic but I wanted to address your comment...

Deviating a little from the main topic, how does 3D NAND from WD\ Toshiba compare to QLC?

 

[lexluthermiester]

Deviating a little from the main topic, how does 3D NAND from WD\ Toshiba compare to QLC?

Simple comparison? 3D-TLC is vastly superior to QLC(all QLC is 3D AFAIK). 3D-TLC is good if you replace your drives every 3 or 4 years. QLC should only be used for incidental storage, IE, storage you don't write to very often like external USB drives or a drive in your system that acts as a secondary/backup/mass storage drive. Don't use QLC as a primary boot drive or working drive for frequent use scratch/temp storage.

3D-MLC is vastly superior to 3D-TLC. Simple advice, pay more and get MLC based drives if you want your drive to last you a long time. Full stop.

 

[Aquinus]

That is only partly true. When a drive controller detects a defect or a failing sector that has not yet failed, it will attempt to copy the data in said sector to an nearby sector that is marked as "free" or "unused" and will then mark the failing or defective sector as bad.

Sure, but there is a different SMART attribute that describes the cases when copying from the bad sector fails and that's not the reallocated sector count, which was my point. Basically just having reallocated sectors alone is not a bad thing unless it's constantly growing or one of the other more critical attributes starts growing.

 

[R-T-B]

I tend to be on the paranoid side.

If a drive has reallocated sectors, it is backed up. Immediately.

I may still use it. The drive may be fine. But if nothing else, it's an excuse to backup, and that's never a bad thing.

 

[Flogger23m]

That simply means that the drive has passed Toshiba's requirements for proper operation, which are a tad on the stringent side. I'd say the drive is fine. Reallocated sectors is something that happens on mechanical hard drives as time goes on and is automatically handled by the drive controller. All HDDs come from the factory that way because no disk platter is ever completely perfect. Carry on using the drive as you were. Keep checking it every 6 months though.

Thanks. I backed up everything. Will probably replace it but won't rush out to buy one tonight. Will hope for a sale in the coming weeks and replace when a good deal comes along.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Thanks. I backed up everything. Will probably replace it but won't rush out to buy one tonight. Will hope for a sale in the coming weeks and replace when a good deal comes along.

Seriously, if Toshiba's own utility tells you you're fine, you're fine. No need to worry at all.

 

[Aquinus]

If a drive has reallocated sectors, it is backed up. Immediately.

It shouldn't matter if you're already backing your stuff up regularly.

 

[R-T-B]

It shouldn't matter if you're already backing your stuff up regularly.

Some stuff is. But some isn't. Some doesn't even need to be. Priorities. Odds of failure factor in too, which drive health is part of.

 

[Rei]

Deviating a little from the main topic, how does 3D NAND from WD\ Toshiba compare to QLC?

3D NAND is a stacking technology & is not a direct comparison to MLCs. Basically, it is a complementary technology to support longevity of MLCs.

QLC should only be used for incidental storage, IE, storage you don't write to very often like external USB drives or a drive in your system that acts as a secondary/backup/mass storage drive. Don't use QLC as a primary boot drive or working drive for frequent use scratch/temp storage.

Obviously, I don't have QLC drives, but if I did have one, I would still use it as an OS drive as for my use case scenario even with only 1000 PE cycle it most likely still last me 5+ years. I'm not much of a gamer nor do I install/uninstall alotta software & for the non drive-intensive software, I usually install on a separate mechanical HDD anyway, nor do I shuffle files around in SSD, basically, I'm more of a casual user. I'm also keeping in mind to TRIM regularly to not shorten expected lifespan. Other than that, If a user does the opposite of my use case scenario, then yeah, don't use QLC drive. Of course, this is all basic figures. We will see how well each companies can leverage QLC with "lifespan lengthening" technology.
While using it as secondary drive is fine but using it as backup drive is prolly a bad call. Not only will mechanical HDD last longer, it is also cheaper.

As I understand it a reallocated sector is information lost; I consider that serious and would not consider that 'runs perfectly'.
One failure is an indication of other impending failures.
For me just one bit lost is reason for concern, even if it is out of 1 TB

Reallocated sector count may be an indication of impending failure but it not an indication that the drive itself is failing. As long as the number doesn't just sporadically rise, then it should be fine for years to come. One of my laptop & it's IDE drive is manufactured in 2002 but it still is running WinXP just fine even with a few reallocated sectors.

 

[Aquinus]

Some stuff is. But some isn't. Some doesn't even need to be. Priorities. Odds of failure factor in too, which drive health is part of.

Nah. With a good backup strategy it shouldn't matter and you should always maintain a backup even if your drives are fine because tomorrow they might not be.

 

[ExcuseMeWtf]

Thanks. I backed up everything. Will probably replace it but won't rush out to buy one tonight. Will hope for a sale in the coming weeks and replace when a good deal comes along.

Keep watching regularly if reallocated/unrecoverable/pending count isn't increasing. If it is, then yeah, it's high time for a new drive.

 

[djisas]

I've lost two laptop drives with unrecoverable data, not mine but died while attempting diagnosing and backing up, the symptoms where major slowness of the system, inability to even run explorer reliably without crashing, I don't remember if managed to run any smart test on them and connecting one of them to my own pc caused a major crash and required windows to be reinstalled on the desktop.

But on the other hand, had 2 seagate 7200.12 500GB showing reallocated sectors run for years without slowing down, sold them for cheap and never had any complain.

On the other hand, I'm slowly replacing my sata drivers with nvme and im looking to add a second 1TB WD SN550, I guess it will be mostly a storage unit, and will use an EVO860 as a download drive...
There are some interesting units from pny and Team with 1600TBW for a 1TB unit...

 

[Rei]

I've lost two laptop drivers with unrecoverable data, not mine but died while attempting diagnosing and backing up, the symptoms where major slowness of the system, inability to even run explorer reliably without crashing, I don't remember if managed to run any smart test on them and connecting one of them to my own pc caused a major crash and required windows to be reinstalled on the desktop.

But on the other hand, had 2 seagate 7200.12 500GB showing reallocated sectors run for years without slowing down, sold them for cheap and never had any complain.

I assume you meant two laptop "drives", not "drivers"? There could be a number of reason why those drives crashed without a proper diagnostic. Should've done a thorough check for future reference.
There shouldn't be any cause for concern if he count for sectors that have been reallocated is minor & doesn't show much signs of rising count.

 

[djisas]

I assume you meant two laptop "drives", not "drivers"? There could be a number of reason why those drives crashed without a proper diagnostic. Should've done a thorough check for future reference.
There shouldn't be any cause for concern if he count for sectors that have been reallocated is minor & doesn't show much signs of rising count.

Fixed, ty...
When I got my hand on the laptops, I could not run them properly so tried to plug them to the desktop directly but they died before anything could be done with normal hardware\software, if the drives don't show on bios, nothing can be done anymore on my part...

 

[Rei]

Fixed, ty...
When I got my hand on the laptops, I could not run them properly so tried to plug them to the desktop directly but they died before anything could be done with normal hardware\software, if the drives don't show on bios, nothing can be done anymore on my part...

Then it's unlikely to be sector reallocation problem. It's likely that they are just straight-up dead. It could also be connection issue but I'd guess that the drive's board is the cause of death in most cases like that symptom.

 

[R-T-B]

Nah. With a good backup strategy it shouldn't matter and you should always maintain a backup even if your drives are fine because tomorrow they might not be.

When 90% of your data is steam games, that becomes quite excessive.

 

[djisas]

When 90% of your data is steam games, that becomes quite excessive.

Only backup I do is saves and I like to backup some program setting too, the roaming folder usually is the only backup I need from C: and w\e left on the desktop...

 

[Aquinus]

When 90% of your data is steam games, that becomes quite excessive.

Then don't backup steam. That doesn't stop you from maintaining a backup for the stuff you care about on that drive. My point is that there is absolutely no reason to avoid maintaining a backup. It doesn't have to be for the entire drive, but you should maintain one if there is anything on that drive you care about, regardless of the state of the drive, because a failure can occur even without warning signs.

 

[lexluthermiester]

because a failure can occur even without warning signs.

TRUTH!!

 

[kiriakost]

I would not use a hard drive with any reallocated sectors...

You seem reacting here as you do also at the other forum that you are member at, in which you talk too much with out cost for your wallet.
You may confirm what ever information seems strange to you, by reading Hard-drive related technical white papers.

From the other hand, to me it is in my benefit the public opinion to be mislead when I am thinking as buyer, how else I can explain that I got this May 2020, two perfect hard-drives for 10 Euro its one from eBay as buy-now when as new, they were sold 181 Euro its one.

Does it mater that both HDD (origin Spain) they have over 60000 hours of operation as they have the ones at my system?
Does it matter that one has Reallocated Sectors Count ?
No it does not. ( Total cost 30 EUR shipped )

Personally I am from the idiots keeping proofs from all my purchases over the years.
I am keeping track of how much is my loss as computer parts shopper.

 

[R-T-B]

Then don't backup steam. That doesn't stop you from maintaining a backup for the stuff you care about on that drive. My point is that there is absolutely no reason to avoid maintaining a backup. It doesn't have to be for the entire drive, but you should maintain one if there is anything on that drive you care about, regardless of the state of the drive, because a failure can occur even without warning signs.

I practice this, but I also do complete system images to save time. Reallocated sectors generally mean "update the image."

I mean, you're sorta preaching to the choir here man.

Does it mater that both HDD (origin Spain) they have over 60000 hours of operation as they have the ones at my system?
Does it matter that one has Reallocated Sectors Count ?
No it does not. ( Total cost 30 EUR shipped )

Good luck. I hope your data is worth less than 30 EUR and/or well backed up.

 

[kiriakost]

Good luck. I hope your data is worth less than 30 EUR and/or well backed up.

Thanks, feel free to check again the images library (updated), not all products has specification of 1.200.000 hours of operation.
in the past our industries was making more reliable products.
I would expect that modern SSD they would be a huge jump to perfection regarding robustness and life cycle, which unfortunately they are not.

 

[lexluthermiester]

not all products has specification of 1.200.000 hours of operation.

SSD's don't have such a classification. Really sad and desperately needed.

 

[djisas]

SSD's don't have such a classification. Really sad and desperately needed.

But they tell you how much data they can handle, I read reports of testing done on ssd drives going well beyond their estimated life...