Acer Nitro 5 AN515-53 - Does undervolting CPU affect turbo boost?

[unclewebb]

does ThrottleStop ever park cores?

ThrottleStop does not have any core parking features. I have never found a need for core parking. Intel CPU cores automatically enter the low power C7 state when they are not being used.

Does it usually utilize all threads at all times

Windows and the CPU control what tasks run on what cores. ThrottleStop has nothing to do with this.

Here is an example of my computer when it is idle. The individual cores are spending 99% of the time in the low power C7 state.

Most people have a lot of useless stuff running in the background 24/7. Apps are randomly installed with no regard to how those apps impact their computer. This is why computers tend to slow down over time. Too many background tasks sucking up CPU cycles when they really do not need to be doing that.

Open the Task Manager, go to the Details tab and have a look for anything running on your computer that does not need to be running all of the time. Your average core C7 percent shows that there is room for improvement.

 

[ShangWang]

ThrottleStop does not have any core parking features. I have never found a need for core parking. Intel CPU cores automatically enter the low power C7 state when they are not being used.


Windows and the CPU control what tasks run on what cores. ThrottleStop has nothing to do with this.

Here is an example of my computer when it is idle. The individual cores are spending 99% of the time in the low power C7 state.

Most people have a lot of useless stuff running in the background 24/7. Apps are randomly installed with no regard to how those apps impact their computer. This is why computers tend to slow down over time. Too many background tasks sucking up CPU cycles when they really do not need to be doing that.

Open the Task Manager, go to the Details tab and have a look for anything running on your computer that does not need to be running all of the time. Your average core C7 percent shows that there is room for improvement.

Thank you for the explanation, it seems like there's nothing in the background I can get rid of so this is as far as I would go.
Sorry again for asking so many things this should be the last, I tried looking up what C states AC does, my best guess is checking it will kick CPU into a high performance state or something like that?

 

[unclewebb]

The C States AC function allows users to toggle the C States on or off. Some users that use their computers for music production hate the C states because they can cause latency and pops and ticks when recording. Most laptops do not have any options to disable the C states in the BIOS so this is a useful feature for some users. This feature only works when plugged in while you are running on AC power.

If you are feeling lucky and want to try this, Check the C States AC box, select Off and then press Apply. You should see all of the C state percentages change to 0 in the monitoring table. Not having the C states enabled will increase idle power consumption and this will add some heat to your system.

When you are finished testing, check the C States AC box and select the On option and press Apply. This is making a change to whatever Windows power plan you are currently using. Make sure to reset this to C States On if you do not want to use this feature.

 

[ShangWang]

The C States AC function allows users to toggle the C States on or off. Some users that use their computers for music production hate the C states because they can cause latency and pops and ticks when recording. Most laptops do not have any options to disable the C states in the BIOS so this is a useful feature for some users. This feature only works when plugged in while you are running on AC power.

If you are feeling lucky and want to try this, Check the C States AC box, select Off and then press Apply. You should see all of the C state percentages change to 0 in the monitoring table. Not having the C states enabled will increase idle power consumption and this will add some heat to your system.

When you are finished testing, check the C States AC box and select the On option and press Apply. This is making a change to whatever Windows power plan you are currently using. Make sure to reset this to C States On if you do not want to use this feature.

Definitely not for me, I believe the defaults for C states are the best but thank you for the info again.

So I do not have to pester you hopefully in the future is there a site that you can refer me to so I can look at everything throttlestop does and has to offer? This website I found useful was limited to only more relevant info: The ThrottleStop Guide (2021): How to Lower Temperatures, Increase Performance and Boost Battery Life (ultrabookreview.com)

 

[unclewebb]

I add new features faster than I document them. If you have a new question just ask. Answering questions keeps me busy.

 

[ShangWang]

I add new features faster than I document them. If you have a new question just ask. Answering questions keeps me busy.

Oh wow you're the author I had no idea!
In that case there is another thing I'm wondering about:

For some reason on AC mode with EPP set at 84 on better performance my Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8300H CPU @ 2.30GHz only runs up to 2.2GHz, but if I enable speedshift even on 128 it does allow it to go to 2.30Ghz. This is not an issue on best performance.

Is this a normal feature on windows or is this possibly because of the settings from QuickCPU even after uninstallation? Is there anyway to fix this?

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[unclewebb]

the settings from QuickCPU even after uninstallation?

I do not know what long term changes QuickCPU can make to the Windows power plan. If you are done using QuickCPU, I would open the Power Options and I would try resetting your Windows power plan. Push the Restore plan defaults button.

If your CPU is being limited to 2.2 GHz, check to see what Speed Shift Max is set to in the TPL window.
This is one way to limit the maximum CPU speed but there are several others.

 

[ShangWang]

If your CPU is being limited to 2.2 GHz, check to see what Speed Shift Max is set to in the TPL window.

Resetting the plan didn't seem to work and speedshift isn't limiting anything, it will work on speedshift but not on windows default. I believe these are changes made by QuickCPU I could not remove earlier. https://prnt.sc/1u473em

 

[unclewebb]

You do not have the Speed Shift option checked so ThrottleStop is not doing anything to adjust this.

Edit - The basics are always the same. In the TPL window, check the MMIO Lock box, clear the Disable Power Limit Control box, check the Speed Shift box and set Power Limit 4 to 0. Those adjustments can fix a wide variety of throttling problems.

 

[ShangWang]

You do not have the Speed Shift option checked so ThrottleStop is not doing anything to adjust this.

I enabled it and put the laptop to sleep, it did not seem to take affect unfortunately and likely only works with speedshift on. I will try using QuickCPU to fix these changes later on.

For now do you know what these limits are? I remember there was only one limit each for CPU and GPU but they disappeared when I clicked on them, do you know what they might have been and am I still ok?

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[unclewebb]

When your laptop shows SST in green on the main screen of ThrottleStop, Speed Shift is enabled. In the TPL window, you have to check the Speed Shift box if you want the Speed Shift Min and Max values sent to the CPU. If these values are not being sent to the CPU, then any software on your computer or Windows can change these.

I will try using QuickCPU

Use QuickCPU or use ThrottleStop but do not use both programs at the same time. They can both write different values to some of the same CPU registers. You will end up with conflicts and the CPU not knowing what it should be doing.

I believe the two boxes at the top of Limit Reasons show BD PROCHOT throttling. I recommend clearing the BD PROCHOT box on the main screen of ThrottleStop. This type of throttling has proved to be excessive and completely unnecessary for most computers. When the BD PROCHOT box is clear, your CPU will still be able to thermal throttle and slow down if it ever gets too hot. BD PROCHOT and PROCHOT (processor hot) are two different things.

Edit - Check what your turbo ratios are set to in the FIVR window. This is another way to limit your CPU speed.

 

[ShangWang]

Edit - Check what your turbo ratios are set to in the FIVR window. This is another way to limit your CPU speed.

27 at the very least, I've only noticed my CPU speed is stuck at 2.2Ghz WITHOUT enabling speedshift because I've had speedshift on all the time.

Use QuickCPU or use ThrottleStop but do not use both programs at the same time

I reinstalled QuickCPU to try to revert the Ghz changes, it seems on AC mode it has a weird speedshift setting with 2.0 ghz min to 2.2 ghz max. I set the max to 4.0ghz, applied changes, uninstalled and my ghz is still stuck at 2.2 ghz without speedshift. I am trying to see if anyone knows how to revert this without a system restore.

I cleared limit reasons for now, I'm assuming whatever limits I enabled will come back if I don't disable them.

If all else fails, is it honestly that bad to use speedshift? It only "conflicts" on battery mode and windows doesn't even allow EPP changes to be overwrriten.

 

[unclewebb]

I've only noticed my CPU speed is stuck at 2.2Ghz WITHOUT enabling speedshift

If you are having a problem with your CPU and checking the Speed Shift option in ThrottleStop solves that problem then I would be checking Speed Shift.

I cleared limit reasons for now

The Limit Reasons data is constantly updated every second in ThrottleStop. Clearing this data does not prevent the CPU from throttling.

 

[ShangWang]

If you are having a problem with your CPU and checking the Speed Shift option in ThrottleStop solves that problem then I would be checking Speed Shift.

Yep, I would. It's not a big deal to lose 100ghz when I'm not playing games so I'll keep it off and find a solution to fix it hopefully in the future.

The Limit Reasons data is constantly updated every second in ThrottleStop. Clearing this data does not prevent the CPU from throttling.

I see, this is what the limits got updated to: https://prnt.sc/1u6876s
I believe thermal is the prochot at 95 deg but what are PL1 and 2? What does the EDP ring dictate?

 

[unclewebb]

EDP OTHER lights up under the RING column whenever PL1, PL2 or THERMAL light up under the CORE column. It is the CORE column that you have to watch. PL1 and PL2 are the two turbo power limits.

 

[ShangWang]

EDP OTHER lights up under the RING column whenever PL1, PL2 or THERMAL light up under the CORE column. It is the CORE column that you have to watch. PL1 and PL2 are the two turbo power limits.

Thanks, though I'm a bit confused, why are there 2 of them? Does lighting up in the core column mean throttling has occured?

Do you also think there might be any other TPL settings that I can experiment with to possibly fix my base frequency?: https://prnt.sc/1u6cxhr

 

[unclewebb]

why are there 2 of them?

That is how Intel CPUs work. There is a short term power limit called PL2. The CPU is allowed to run at this power level for a short period of time. There is also a long term power limit called PL1. During any long term stress test, the CPU will be limited to PL1.

Does lighting up in the core column mean throttling has occured?

Yes. Yellow boxes are a record of any previous throttling and red boxes indicate throttling is in progress.

possibly fix my base frequency?

What is wrong with your base frequency? I would be more concerned with the 34°C difference in your maximum core temperatures. Time to redo the thermal paste.

 

[ShangWang]

What is wrong with your base frequency? I would be more concerned with the 34°C difference in your maximum core temperatures. Time to redo the thermal paste.

Yeah, I might have messed up the thermal paste a bit but I don't mind the temps as long as it doesn't cause throttling. Haven't noticed any performance issues with heat so I'm likely repasting next year.

As mentioned before QuickCPU likely caused my max frequency WITHOUT speedshift to be stuck at 2.2Ghz max when using the power slider on "better battery/better performance."

It can never reach 2.3Ghz unless I put the slider to "Best performance" which will set EPP to 0 all the time or turn on speedshift which will cause windows EPP control interference as you said. So I'm wondering if there's anything else you know I can do or if this 100 Ghz base frequency down is normal and fine when not gaming.

 

[ShangWang]

That is how Intel CPUs work. There is a short term power limit called PL2. The CPU is allowed to run at this power level for a short period of time. There is also a long term power limit called PL1. During any long term stress test, the CPU will be limited to PL1.


Yes. Yellow boxes are a record of any previous throttling and red boxes indicate throttling is in progress.


What is wrong with your base frequency? I would be more concerned with the 34°C difference in your maximum core temperatures. Time to redo the thermal paste.

Hello, I just wanted to update you that having 0.10Ghz reduced from the max on better performance or better battery is completely normal, QuickCPU had nothing to do with it. It's a feature on windows to save power but not hinder performance.

Edit: Nope never mind, setting max frequency to 99% does this, I had no idea that it would reduce the base down 100mhz.

That is how Intel CPUs work. There is a short term power limit called PL2. The CPU is allowed to run at this power level for a short period of time. There is also a long term power limit called PL1. During any long term stress test, the CPU will be limited to PL1.


Yes. Yellow boxes are a record of any previous throttling and red boxes indicate throttling is in progress.


What is wrong with your base frequency? I would be more concerned with the 34°C difference in your maximum core temperatures. Time to redo the thermal paste.

Also just curious, why is frequency measured by multiplying by 100mhz? How come some frequencies are not exactly multiplied by 100? It seems mine is 99.768

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That is how Intel CPUs work. There is a short term power limit called PL2. The CPU is allowed to run at this power level for a short period of time. There is also a long term power limit called PL1. During any long term stress test, the CPU will be limited to PL1.


Yes. Yellow boxes are a record of any previous throttling and red boxes indicate throttling is in progress.


What is wrong with your base frequency? I would be more concerned with the 34°C difference in your maximum core temperatures. Time to redo the thermal paste.

Do you also know if there's any possibility that speedshift TPL values for min and max conflict with windows as well? I've never had it checked before but disabling turbo boost and setting a max seems to work just fine.

Do you recommend enabling the TPL value anyway? Does closing the throttlestop application reset speedshift min and max by windows on sleep wake up?

Screenshot

Captured with Lightshot

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Screenshot

Captured with Lightshot

prnt.sc

 

[ShangWang]

That is how Intel CPUs work. There is a short term power limit called PL2. The CPU is allowed to run at this power level for a short period of time. There is also a long term power limit called PL1. During any long term stress test, the CPU will be limited to PL1.


Yes. Yellow boxes are a record of any previous throttling and red boxes indicate throttling is in progress.


What is wrong with your base frequency? I would be more concerned with the 34°C difference in your maximum core temperatures. Time to redo the thermal paste.

Hi again, I was just wondering if you knew what "size" means in TS Bench. What does the M stand for?

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[unclewebb]

size

The size of the problem being solved.

M

Metric (SI) Prefixes

As of August 16, 2023 the physics.nist.gov historic SI Units site has permanently retired.

www.nist.gov

 

[ShangWang]

The size of the problem being solved.

Metric (SI) Prefixes

As of August 16, 2023 the physics.nist.gov historic SI Units site has permanently retired.

www.nist.gov

I see, thanks.
Do you know if there's any real difference between EPP and minimum processor state? They seem to do the same thing.

 

[unclewebb]

EPP and minimum processor state

Those are two different things.

What are you trying to accomplish?

 

[ShangWang]

Those are two different things.

What are you trying to accomplish?

Just curious on how they differ and how they can affect performance.
My guess is minimum is a hard range for what the frequency can be, and EPP is how often the system will prefer a higher frequency.

 

[ShangWang]

You do not have the Speed Shift option checked so ThrottleStop is not doing anything to adjust this.

Edit - The basics are always the same. In the TPL window, check the MMIO Lock box, clear the Disable Power Limit Control box, check the Speed Shift box and set Power Limit 4 to 0. Those adjustments can fix a wide variety of throttling problems.

Hi again, could you briefly explain what the things you mentioned do? This is what my TPL looked like by default except the speedshift box being checked:
I'm not having any throttling issues but I'm wondering if making the changes you described actually does anything for me.