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upgrading from 2700X to 5900X on a MSI B450M Mortar

You could run higher settings without much of a performance loss, but you'd have the same FPS ceiling your current CPU gives you



If you run lower settings and the FPS doesn't go up, that's the CPU limit
 
ModelPrice (cheapest)Cores /
Threads
Base
Clock
Max.
Boost
L3
Cache
TDP
Ryzen 7 2700X-8 / 163.7 GHz4.3 GHz16 MB105 W
Ryzen 5 5600X212€6 / 123.7 GHz4.6 GHz32 MB65 W
Ryzen 7 5700X283€8 / 163.4 GHz4.6 GHz32 MB65 W
Ryzen 7 5800X310€8 / 163.8 GHz4.7 GHz32 MB105 W
Ryzen 7 5800X3D459€8 / 163.4 GHz4.5 GHz96 MB105 W
Ryzen 9 3900X421,9€12 / 243.8 GHz4.6 GHz64 MB105 W



5900X​
5700X​
PROs​
PROs​
More cores and cachesimilar gaming performance with less power and cheaper
CONs​
CONs​
more power/heatsame # threads as 2700X ("psychologically" feels like a smaller upgrade)
recommended cooler upgrade to optimize boost performance
price


The 5600X has incredible gaming value, but I can't see myself going for a lower core count, so that leaves the 5700X as the closest contender. I think in the end it will come down to price and since the 5900X is an older part I expect it will have a bigger discount (%) around Black Friday week.
 
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ModelPrice (cheapest)Cores /
Threads
Base
Clock
Max.
Boost
L3
Cache
TDP
Ryzen 7 2700X-8 / 163.7 GHz4.3 GHz16 MB105 W
Ryzen 5 5600X212€6 / 123.7 GHz4.6 GHz32 MB65 W
Ryzen 7 5700X283€8 / 163.4 GHz4.6 GHz32 MB65 W
Ryzen 7 5800X310€8 / 163.8 GHz4.7 GHz32 MB105 W
Ryzen 7 5800X3D459€8 / 163.4 GHz4.5 GHz96 MB105 W
Ryzen 9 3900X421,9€12 / 243.8 GHz4.6 GHz64 MB105 W



5900X​
5700X​
PROs​
PROs​
More cores and cachesimilar gaming performance with less power and cheaper
CONs​
CONs​
more power/heatsame # threads as 2700X ("psychologically" feels like a smaller upgrade)
recommended cooler upgrade to optimize boost performance
price


The 5600X has incredible gaming value, but I can't see myself going for a lower core count, so that leaves the 5700X as the closest contender. I think in the end it will come down to price and since the 5900X is an older part I expect it will have a bigger discount (%) around Black Friday week.

For practical intents and purposes, the 5900X has 2x32MB of L3, not 64MB. It does have somewhat higher cache bandwidth in AIDA64, but that's about it. As with Ryzen 3000 and 7000 there is no direct connection between the two CCDs (cross-CCX communication goes the long way through the IO die and two IFOP links), and inter-CCD latency has always been slow, so in practice there's really no reason to consider the 5900X to have an L3 advantage. If any core was able to access 64MB in a meaningfully fast way, the 5900X/5950X would already have stood out the way the 5800X3D does.

I've spent about a year and half with my 5900X and watched its behaviour mature from AGESA 1100 to 1207, through a bunch of different boards, and Windows 10 to 11. I know exactly how you feel about the "psychological" upgrade. ST-wise and MT-wise it is a very strong CPU, and only gets stronger if you put it under custom water - but as the AM4 lineup sits right now, it would be my last choice for gaming, only ahead of the APUs. As far as the few games that I've seen utilize enough threads to matter, it's functionally a 5600X.

There is one unexpected feature that came of Windows 11, is that 5900X/5950X are essentially treated as big.little CPUs (think 12900K) in the new OS. Demanding ST tasks can be reserved for CCD1 cores (which always houses your best cores), whilst the scheduler will pick a core on CCD2 to handle the vast majority of your daily background tasks. I'm not committing to saying that it's a benefit, however, because in practice that CCD2 background core actually hogs a lot of gaming load too instead of giving it to Preferred Cores, so inter-CCD load juggling happens very often as a result possibly reducing performance. Windows 10 behaves very conventionally, meaning CCD2 is basically always dark until you fire up an all-core workload.

On the temperature front, however, it's not hard to cool. I understand you have a smaller AIO, but it should not be a problem (I'd be more worried about the age and reliability of your AIO).

I paid a rather mediocre price for my 5800X3D, but I just can't see any reason why I would go back to my 5900X. I just don't do enough to make use of those cores.
 
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For practical intents and purposes, the 5900X has 2x32MB of L3. It does have somewhat higher cache bandwidth in AIDA64, but that's about it. As with Ryzen 3000 and 7000 there is no direct connection between the two CCDs (cross-CCX communication goes the long way through the IO die and two IFOP links), and inter-CCD latency has always been slow, so in practice there's really no reason to consider the 5900X to have an L3 advantage.
I remember this from when Zen 2 came out. I thought this wasn't an issue any more.
There is one unexpected feature that came of Windows 11, and it's that 5900X/5950X are essentially treated as big.little CPUs (think 12900K) in the new OS. Demanding ST tasks can be reserved for CCD1 cores (which always houses your best cores), whilst the scheduler will pick a core on CCD2 to handle the vast majority of your daily background tasks. I'm not willing to commit to saying that it's a benefit, however, because in practice that CCD2 background core actually hogs a lot of gaming load too instead of giving it to Preferred Cores as is expected, and inter-CCD load juggling happens very often as a result possibly reducing performance. Windows 10 behaves very conventionally, meaning CCD2 is basically always dark until you fire up an all-core workload.
You truly are a well of wisdom! Thanks for sharing.

Suddenly it became really hard to justify spending >200€ on a CPU for ~10% performance uplift (@ 1440p) when 400~500€ on a GPU will likely improve 80~100%
1664581775023.png
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croped from:
 
I upgraded recently from 5600/5600X to 5800X using the same mobo.
I have no major issues. The VRM on the B450M Mortar Max is nothing short of outstanding.
It would handle a 5900X maybe a 5950X OC'd with no problem.

I have noticed a better min fps in games compared to my 5600/5600X at stock.

Maybe look at the 5800X I seen it on sale for 260USD I think its a good deal at that price.
https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-5800X-16-Thread-Processor/dp/B0815XFSGK/

The price is good. But is it worth it to increase FPS at such a low value?
 
I remember this from when Zen 2 came out. I thought this wasn't an issue any more.

You truly are a well of wisdom! Thanks for sharing.

Suddenly it became really hard to justify spending >200€ on a CPU for ~10% performance uplift (@ 1440p) when 400~500€ on a GPU will likely improve 80~100%

The only difference for Zen 2 is that the CCX (4 cores) was half of the CCD (8 cores), so only Matisse's inter-CCX latency was just as bad as inter-CCD latency even when staying on the same CCD. The same design for Ryzen 3000, 5000 and 7000 chiplet products - there is only 1 Fabric link from each CCD to the IO die, latency between CCDs has never improved because there is no direct path to take.

With a 1060, it's better to think of the platform upgrade as setting you up for a newer GPU rather than getting extra performance out of your 1060. Whatever benefits you get are a nice bonus, but not too much reason to make the upgrade if you intend to stay with the 1060 for a while. Keeping the 2700X isn't the end of the world, especially if you want to wait a bit to leave AM4 behind entirely.

Radeon should be a little better than Geforce with old CPUs in some CPU-limited situations, shouldn't be a huge deal either, just something to think about:

 
Im in the same boat but I dont want to spend $720 on a 5800X3D.......considering the 7700X is cheaper and faster :ohwell:

I dont have any issues running any games at good FPS with my 2700X so im not worried but a CPU upgrade is next on the list thats for sure.
 
The price is good. But is it worth it to increase FPS at such a low value?
For the Op who has a 2700X and gaming at 1440p a 5800X is less than 5% slower than a ZEN 4 7600X overall his 2700X is 30% slower compared to the 7600X.
So I would say yes. it is worth the upgrade.

*Depending on what game you play performance gap can change but in CS GO ZEN3 CPUs can offer almost double the fps compared to ZEN/+

relative-performance-games-2560-1440.png

 
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For the Op who has a 2700X and gaming at 1440p a 5800X is less than 5% slower than a ZEN 4 7600X overall his 2700X is 30% slower compared to the 7600X.
So I would say yes. it is worth the upgrade.

We can indirectly compare the 2700X with newer generations as they include in their charts the R5 3600.
Roughly the R7 2700X = R5 3600 for games.

This chart (with too few games though) shows that the R5 7600X is about 50% faster (avg and lows) than the R5 3600
Consider also the 1080p, low settings and the 3090Ti. On more realistic res, settings and GPU this could be 30~40%? ...maybe less?

1664623705861.png
 
For the Op who has a 2700X and gaming at 1440p a 5800X is less than 5% slower than a ZEN 4 7600X overall his 2700X is 30% slower compared to the 7600X.
So I would say yes. it is worth the upgrade.


I think something funny happened in the Zen4 reviews. If you compare actual frame rates from a couple of specific games from the 5600X review with the 7600X one, although the GPU went from a 2080ti to a 3080, in the common games between the 2 reviews, the 2700X managed to get less FPS.

with RTX 2080 TIwith RTX 3080
1664624293027.png
1664624166067.png
1664624328572.png
1664624243338.png
You could run higher settings without much of a performance loss, but you'd have the same FPS ceiling your current CPU gives you
I'm not sure this is what you meant with FPS ceiling, as we see in BF V.
 
I'm not sure this is what you meant with FPS ceiling, as we see in BF V.
He's referring to a CPU bottleneck that's affecting the GPU.

CPU and GPU struggles​

When CPU slowdown occurs, it impacts the GPU, which cannot process the information fast enough, either. As a result, the GPU will struggle to render the game’s frames, leading to frame rate lag and a lackluster performance.

It is important to note that every system has some form of CPU bottleneck. It is impossible to have complete synchronization between a CPU and a GPU. However, a game can only run as well as its slowest component allows, and it is important to know if the CPU is the component causing the bottleneck.
 
Have had some problems with the MSI Tomahawk B450 and 4 dims with a 3800x cpu - so not sure if the Mortare would suffer from the same issue - but the Thomahawk - actually 3 of them actually killed memory modules when adding the second pair - was using Viper Steel 4400MHz dimms
 
Have had some problems with the MSI Tomahawk B450 and 4 dims with a 3800x cpu - so not sure if the Mortare would suffer from the same issue - but the Thomahawk - actually 3 of them actually killed memory modules when adding the second pair - was using Viper Steel 4400MHz dimms
I have no issue running 32GB 4X8GB DIMMS @ 3800 CL14 on my Mortar Max with my 5600 / 5600X. Running same the RAM Viper 4400 C19

Will update a screenshot later. Getting a server error msg at the moment trying to upload an image here.
ZenTimings_Screenshot 3800 CL14 TM5 Pass.png
 
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Radeon should be a little better than Geforce with old CPUs in some CPU-limited situations, shouldn't be a huge deal either, just something to think about:
Amazing video, really interesting stuff going on there. (I usually don't watch this guy's videos because I don't like his accent, but this one was worth the "sacrifice")

Radeon should be a little better than Geforce with old CPUs
I was already planning on it. The Sapphire RX 6700 (non-XT) is cheaper than most 6600XT, so something between the 6700, 6700XT or (wishful thinking) 6800.
 
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I have no issue running 32GB 4X8GB DIMMS @ 3800 CL14 on my Mortar Max with my 5600 / 5600X. Running same the RAM Viper 4400 C19

Will update a screenshot later. Getting a server error msg at the moment trying to upload an image here.
Good to hear, have helped build 3 Motar setups with 2 sticks and did fear that those setup would suffer from the same problem
 
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I'm not sure this is what you meant with FPS ceiling, as we see in BF V.
In any game, a CPU will always have a limit. That limit will vary per frame and per scene.

As an example, in starcraft II it doesnt matter if i have a 4090Ti, because i'll be at 30FPS due to single threaded AI late game - if i had a 5800x3D instead of a 5800x, I might be capped to 35FPS in that situation


I found my 3700x stuck at ~110FPS in a lot of DX12 titles on my 1080, my 5800x upgraded that to 160-200FPS. The 3090 let me achieve that same FPS, with higher graphical settings (mostly, the move from 1440p to 4k)
 
missed this one...
1667299800692.png
 
Good to hear, have helped build 3 Motar setups with 2 sticks and did fear that those setup would suffer from the same problem
Running GMD off real 1T is also possible now with both my B450M Mortar Max Boards despite it being a 4 DIMM mobo.
I was able to do it with 2 different sets of RAM Patriot Viper Steel 4000 C19 another 4133 C19.

 
he s from portugal so i think it was in FINLAND
 
  • Haha
Reactions: SL2
View attachment 263507

I reckon a 240 would fit, maybe even a 280. The above image was from the NOX-Extreme website. It sounds like you have a good upgrade roadmap.

I've been looking into this, and they say a 240mm can be installed in the front and on top. One of the strongest candidates in this category is the Arctic freezer II and looking at the installation manual installing it in the front is a no go:
1668671921716.png
1668671940796.png

Also:

I'll have to check the clearance at the top. The Arctic Freezer radiator is quite bulky.
 
units like the be quiet with the pump in the hoses can be shoved anywhere
 
Idk if a cpu has been bought but In actuality, if You can get a 5800 OEM for less than a 5700X, go for it because they are exactly the same CPU. Also the mobo you have supports 3466 Ram via AMP, it may go higher with manual overclocking but that board would need good power phasing for the cpu and ram. A 5900 is still a viable option along with the 58003D.
 
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