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Laptop storage upgrade, undecided between Kingston KC3000 vs Lexar NM790 1TB

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zorbakun

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I am looking to upgrade my latop storage from Micron 2400 512GB PCIe 4.0x4 to either Kingston KC3000 or Lexar NM 790 1 TB. They are similarly priced where I live, I will use the drive to boot the OS with standard usage like browsing, gaming and frequent file copying between drives. I'm worried about temperatures that could throttle my new drives or worst case scenario kill it long term. So which would be better for my use case?

Laptop is Asus TUF A15 2023 Model with Ryzen 9 7940HS & 32GB DDR5 4800 RAM.
 
The KC3000 is hot, as are other SSDs based on the same controller (Phison E18). I'd consider the NM790 and the WD SN770 if you can get it at a similar price point, but look at other recent reviews at TPU too, they now include very useful data about power.
 
Samsung SSDs are among the most efficient to have in your laptop, consumption at idle is practically zero. :)
 
Having used many, many different brands & models of SSD's in the past few years, I absolutely agree with Denver's & Wirko's WD & Sammy recommendations above, as they are the 2 best ones out there for low heat & non-throttling performance, however, all SSD's MUST have sufficient cooling to accomplish this...be it from airflow (which is usually limited in lappys) and/or a good heatsink, and both of them can be purchased with or without...

If you want a top-performing drive, I suggest you go with the WD SN850x instead of the 770, due to the addition of the DRAM cache and the higher-end controller and firmware. And if you act quickly, you can get it for really low prices in the 2TB or 4TB sizes, which will be going way up real soon :D
 
bonehead123 said:
Having used many, many different brands & models of SSD's in the past few years, I absolutely agree with Denver's & Wirko's WD & Sammy recommendations above, as they are the 2 best ones out there for low heat & non-throttling performance, however, all SSD's MUST have sufficient cooling to accomplish this...be it from airflow (which is usually limited in lappys) and/or a good heatsink, and both of them can be purchased with or without...

If you want a top-performing drive, I suggest you go with the WD SN850x instead of the 770, due to the addition of the DRAM cache and the higher-end controller and firmware. And if you act quickly, you can get it for really low prices in the 2TB or 4TB sizes, which will be going way up real soon :D
Click to expand...
What about generated heat from SN850x? if i use it in laptop, it wont throttle?
 
Hugis said:
High ish idle draw on the 850 and 850x btw 1.2-1.5w
www.techpowerup.com

Western Digital SN850X (w/ Heatsink) 1 TB Specs

1 TB, TLC, PCIe 4.0 x4, M.2 2280
www.techpowerup.com www.techpowerup.com
www.techpowerup.com

Western Digital SN850 (w/ Heatsink) 1 TB Specs

1 TB, TLC, PCIe 4.0 x4, M.2 2280
www.techpowerup.com www.techpowerup.com
Click to expand...
I don't think I can fit a SSD with heatsink in my laptop.
so does the SN850x w/o heatsink work cooler than KC3000 & NM790 genrating less heat? that it could work fine without throttling or getting damaged over time?
 
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the 850x comes with & without a heatsink its just tpu shows it like that

see here


If your bothered about throttling and heat tbh i think your best bet would be the nm790

www.techpowerup.com

Lexar NM790 4 TB Review - Tons of Fast Storage at a Great Price

The Lexar NM790 is one of the fastest SSDs we've ever tested, being able to match the Samsung 990 Pro. It is still priced very competitively, at just $210 for the 4 TB version. Not long ago that only got you 2 TB. Thanks to a highly optimized controller design, the NM790 runs very efficiently...
www.techpowerup.com www.techpowerup.com

Maybe someone with a laptop and any these drives could give you some input with reagrds to heat and throttling?
 
you can actually get some pretty low profile SSD heatsinks....

This one is made by EK but there are offbrand ones on amazon that are much cheaper.

1698412484634.png


Alternatively go to a machine shop and ask nicely if you could root around in their scrap metal bin for some aluminium, They might even cut it for you to size for free or beer money.

Even if the aluminium is 1 or 2mm thick its still better than nothing.

Rubber bands you could get from any hobbycraft store or shop hardware store that specialises in plumbing or electrics. those rubber bands might be more durable than standard stationary shop ones.

The aluminium doesnt need to be very thick or have a load of fins. Its just there to soak up the heat from the controller for a bit.

- If you dont have thermal pads. Its just easier to by the pre-made heatsinks off amazon/ebay that come with everything (like the EK) a lot of the cheap offbrand heatsinks will supply their own thermal pads with their heatsinks.

:EDIT::

An example of a much more lower profile one

1698413359869.png
 
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Hugis said:
High ish idle draw on the 850 and 850x btw 1.2-1.5w
www.techpowerup.com

Western Digital SN850X (w/ Heatsink) 1 TB Specs

1 TB, TLC, PCIe 4.0 x4, M.2 2280
www.techpowerup.com www.techpowerup.com
www.techpowerup.com

Western Digital SN850 (w/ Heatsink) 1 TB Specs

1 TB, TLC, PCIe 4.0 x4, M.2 2280
www.techpowerup.com www.techpowerup.com
Click to expand...
I'm certain that TPU's power measurements have a flaw: power gets measured in a desktop PC, which can't properly put every SSD to notebook-specific L1 ASPM power state. Or maybe it could but only after a very long idle period. ~1W (as measured for most WDs and some others) is plain unbelievable, it would disqualify a SSD for use in notebooks.
 
Wirko said:
I'm certain that TPU's power measurements have a flaw: power gets measured in a desktop PC, which can't properly put every SSD to notebook-specific L1 ASPM power state. Or maybe it could but only after a very long idle period. ~1W (as measured for most WDs and some others) is plain unbelievable, it would disqualify a SSD for use in notebooks.
Click to expand...
I get your point, does that mean KC3000 with Phison controller with idle power draw of 0.72W a better fit for laptops compared to SN850x?
 
Wirko said:
The KC3000 is hot, as are other SSDs based on the same controller (Phison E18). I'd consider the NM790 and the WD SN770 if you can get it at a similar price point, but look at other recent reviews at TPU too, they now include very useful data about power.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the KC3000 needs a decent heatsink, as I can attest to as it even throttled with the motherboard heatsinks on my previous board.

FreedomEclipse said:
you can actually get some pretty low profile SSD heatsinks....

This one is made by EK but there are offbrand ones on amazon that are much cheaper.

View attachment 319119

Alternatively go to a machine shop and ask nicely if you could root around in their scrap metal bin for some aluminium, They might even cut it for you to size for free or beer money.

Even if the aluminium is 1 or 2mm thick its still better than nothing.

Rubber bands you could get from any hobbycraft store or shop hardware store that specialises in plumbing or electrics. those rubber bands might be more durable than standard stationary shop ones.

The aluminium doesnt need to be very thick or have a load of fins. Its just there to soak up the heat from the controller for a bit.

- If you dont have thermal pads. Its just easier to by the pre-made heatsinks off amazon/ebay that come with everything (like the EK) a lot of the cheap offbrand heatsinks will supply their own thermal pads with their heatsinks.

:EDIT::

An example of a much more lower profile one

View attachment 319120
Click to expand...
The KC3000 will eat those for breakfast.

I swapped the OEM drive in my laptop for a Solidgm P44 Pro and it seems to be behaving just fine.
 
Wirko said:
I'm certain that TPU's power measurements have a flaw: power gets measured in a desktop PC, which can't properly put every SSD to notebook-specific L1 ASPM power state. Or maybe it could but only after a very long idle period. ~1W (as measured for most WDs and some others) is plain unbelievable, it would disqualify a SSD for use in notebooks.
Click to expand...
I agree that WD's numbers are unexpected, yet there's tons of other drives that reach the lowest state just fine
 
W1zzard said:
I agree that WD's numbers are unexpected, yet there's tons of other drives that reach the lowest state just fine
Click to expand...
Any possibility of measuring the idle consumption of those WD drives again in a notebook? And a couple other SSDs too, like the Samsung 990 Pro?

The 990 Pro (2TB) specifications are quite comprehensive and include consumption: 55 mW on idle, 5 mW in device sleep. StorageReview translates these two modes as "Idle (APST on)" and "L1.2 mode".

zorbakun said:
I get your point, does that mean KC3000 with Phison controller with idle power draw of 0.72W a better fit for laptops compared to SN850x?
Click to expand...
That's questionable. TPU reviewed the SN850, not the newer SN850x. Also, Idle power isn't everything that matters, but it sure matters for battery life. W1zzard's testing procedure did manage to put the KC3000 to a very low power L1 sleep state (0.078W) but not the SN850, and the reason might be some hardware or BIOS incompatibility.
 
Well, I have a mini-me box @home, which is smaller inside and more limited in airflow than a lappy, and my 850x with a thin graphene thermal pad & very small, low RPM internal fan has been running hard for the past 8 hours doing heavy database & spreadsheet work, as well as email, surfin, and watchin some videos, and is currently showing a temp of 48-50c.... and guess what.....it aint throttlin one bit, with read/write speeds in the 7000-7400Mb/s range, just like it should be :D

OTOH, my Dell & Clevo workstation lappys @the office have the same drive installed and do even more/heavier work (CAD drawing creation & manipulations) and they never throttle even a little...

Granted these are only MY experiences, which account for like .0000217% of the many lappy owners out there, but they work for me & make me $$$$$, so I'm not complaining :D
 
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TheLostSwede said:
I swapped the OEM drive in my laptop for a Solidgm P44 Pro and it seems to be behaving just fine.
Click to expand...

What kind of laptop do you have and what are the average operating temperatures?

According to these measurements - 1. Kingston KC3000, 2. Solidigm P44 Pro, the temperatures during high-load tests are even slightly worse on P44 Pro and KC3000 graphene sticker is reported to be actually working.

I'm trying to swap a mediocre oem Micron in my Expertbook P1 with something fast based on local prices for 1Tb, but P44 Pro is 1.5x more expensive here than KC3000, even more expensive than the SN850X and 980 Pro. Overall, the price is not really a problem, but so far I haven't seen any clear evidence that the sn850x or kc3000 overheats someone's laptops under average daily load or that they actually get much hotter than the P44 Pro.
 
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Are there any review sitest that test notebook SSDs in actual notebooks? Yeah, let's not forget what M.2 was designed for:
1698444298588.png

And even notebooks are not all made equal. Those that I can find pics of don't seem designed for any airflow over the SSD; others have something like (poor) thermal contact between the SSD and the bottom panel. But there may be better solutions with good airflow.
 
I don't have a notebook to test my Kingston KC3000 1TB in, but I installed it this week in my rig as boot drive and so far I'm very happy with it (performance wise and temps), actually it shows great value even compared to the other options mentioned here.

I dare to challenge the statements that this SSD is too hot for a notebook, eventough mine does have the MB heatsink on it (see pic).


20231028_171658[1].jpg


The SSD is not constantly under full load with a normal notebook usage scenario, so the heat it produces is only marginal to the whole picture, CPU, GPU, chipset & VRM's will produce the marority of the heat that needs to be disposed of in a notebook.
Below a screenshot of both an ATTO Disk Benchmark & CrystalDiskmark run with speed and temps recorded, so you can see for yourself.

KC3000 test.png

The temps of the Phison E-18 (ASIC) controller are constant at 71 degrees Celsius (loaded or not) and the temps of the Nand chips vary from 25 (ambient = 23) idle to 45 degrees max under full load.

In a confined space of a notebook it is likely that they will be somewhat higher, but I doubt up to the throttling point (with normal use). And yes, it all depends on the airflow over the aluminium/grafene heatspreader, but I have no idea if laptop designers take this in consideration and anticipate to this in new designs when defining cooling capacities
 
while searching I found out that WD SN850x doesnt support "The Autonomous Power State Transition (APST)", can anyone who has the drive check HWInfo & confirm the same? and if this feature is missing how would it impact usage in laptop?!
 
On my laptop i put 1,5 mm Copper radiator to WD Black SN850X, and the temperatures is a 52-53 degrees, and going to max. 75 degrees to max load..
 
zorbakun said:
while searching I found out that WD SN850x doesnt support "The Autonomous Power State Transition (APST)", can anyone who has the drive check HWInfo & confirm the same?
Click to expand...
The predecessor, SN850, supports the lowest power states. Anandtech made some detailed measurements and achieved 3 mW, and also noted:
The Laptop Idle number represents the maximum power savings possible with all the NVMe and PCIe power management features in use—usually the default for a battery-powered system but rarely achievable on a desktop even after changing BIOS and OS settings.
Click to expand...
It's extremely unlikely for the SN850X to not support that.

zorbakun said:
and if this feature is missing how would it impact usage in laptop?!
Click to expand...
Depends on how often the OS allows the SSD to go to idle - and that's assuming applications often allow the SSD to go to idle. But in the worst case, you could get a couple hour shorter battery life.
 
zorbakun said:
while searching I found out that WD SN850x doesnt support "The Autonomous Power State Transition (APST)", can anyone who has the drive check HWInfo & confirm the same? and if this feature is missing how would it impact usage in laptop?!
Click to expand...
Well, I don't have a lappy, but in my mini-me box, it is supported according to HW Info ....
brave said:
On my laptop i put 1,5 mm Copper radiator to WD Black SN850X, and the temperatures is a 52-53 degrees, and going to max. 75 degrees to max load..
Click to expand...
My 4TB 850x runs an average of 48-58c, and on occasion when I stress it REALLY hard, it might go up to 65c, with just a thin graphene strip and a small internal fan (~20-25mm) :D
 
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