Moderation Too Strict

[the54thvoid]

On Politics:

If a news post on TPU invokes politics (normally sanctions), it can be discussed without resorting to the usual tribal nonsense. The problem with some members is they have their flag planted so firmly in the ground, they'll not budge, and they'll infer how proud they are to have that flag planted so firmly. With entrenched ideological views like that, it's impossible to have a proper discussion. That's why I'll often step in. They also tend to throw crap at the other side. It's not helpful for a public forum. But there are really cool people on TPU who can discuss things, i.e., trade sanctions or geo-politics without getting emotional, patriotic, or ideological, and those conversations are just fine.

On Belief:

A very close colleague of mine was a devout christian. We had a man-hug type relationship, and when I left that job, I knew I'd miss his banter. I was quite sad actually. I have nothing against people of faith. But in a tech forum, there's very limited scope, and almost all religious statements are going to be off-topic and not contributing to the conversation. It'd be no different if, in an AMD/Nvidia shitfest, someone posted a line that said, 'I like carrots.' It'd get removed or LQ'd (if noticed). Also, TPU is a global forum and technically it's multi-faith. All are welcome, but please speak tech.

On Noticing:

Mods aren't omniscient, nor can we see everything. We see reports. Those folk who think we're too strict would be amazed how many TPU members reports get ignored because we don't think they warrant it. We are very lax. Also, you might see something and think why has that not been removed, but if it's not reported, we might not see it.

On Bias:

This is a community issue. We get reports from people on the same topics over and over. I've had PM's with individual members about this. Person 'A' will always report on topic 'B', and person 'B' will always report on topic 'A'. Person 'A' only knows the report they send, not the ones they get from person 'B'. Because we see the reports, we see the bias evolve over time. I mean, most of us know who's going to get stuck into a 'brand' thread. What you don't see is how many reports we get about it - that's other people reporting on your bias.

On Deletions:

We delete to keep the flow of a thread. This is a hot topic, but the TPU rules as they are now as as W1zzard has them, state posts must contribute. We let the ocassional joke slide. But when that joke receives a reply, and so on, the topic gets lost. It's usually two or three players who'll derail a thread for shits'n'giggles. And yeah, it is funny, but it doesn't help the thread, and guess what? We get reports about it derailing the thread. So we act. And when we do, it all disappears. If I have to mass delete, I'll post it in thread saying so. Otherwise, a deletion should come with an advisory when it is carried out by the mod.

On Victimhood:

You are all victims. The mods are definitely out to get you. Except, your post was reported by other people, so we look at it. You do the same thing again, so we act. I'm a victim. 13 years ago I had two warnings. Some of the posters in here who are discussing victimhood have had zero points. Some have had a few. Others have served bans. You only perceive yourself as a victim because victimhood takes away the responsibility of your own actions. That's why people do it. It's genuinely easier to point a finger outwards, than inwards. We don't choose sides - you, as an individual, do.

On Civility:

I'm pretty sure if this was a US 'stand your ground' state, and some of the forum discussions had taken place in a car lot, we'd have a massacre. And that's just if I had a gun. But if you guys were armed too, golly gosh and gun shot residue, there'd be no state left. It's important to try and be civil to one another in order to keep the peace.

On Cursing:

It's okay to curse on TPU with the more common words. Sorry Australia, the C-bomb is not tolerated. (An Australian member told me it wasn't so serious down there, when I gave them points for using it). What we can't allow is abusive or aggressive attitudes, either to companies or people.


And thanks for ploughing through that screed of text. If you're still aggrieved, what can I say? Nothing else, hopefully.

 

[AusWolf]

Honestly if you feel like the problem is that you can't make sexist jokes I'd say that's a you problem. Yeah the internet has changed, for bad and good. The good change is that this site doesn't review booth babes anymore (and honestly I think less of w1z for even thinking that was a good idea) and that people finally has realized ironic racism and real racism are basically the same thing and people aren't fine with sexism and racism. This is good. The bad is how corporate much of it is, and how complex topics are seen as black and white (see everything about the current stuff going on in Gaza) (also these are just examples).

If the internet allowed it, I would kindly disagree.

As an Eastern European immigrant to the UK, I hear lots of Eastern European jokes coming from English people at work. But I have a laugh with them because...

1. Jokes usually have some sort of real basis, often exaggerated to the moon (that's what makes them fun), but still...
2. It's a joke - no one is supposed to take offense as it's not targeted at individuals. If you think it's about you, you're an idiot. Everyone and every group has some shortcomings, so why should you be different? And if you are different, then where's the offense?
3. We're mates. Taking a stab at each other and having a laugh about it isn't just normal, it also passes the time rather quickly. I also joke about them in return, and they take it just as well.
4. If you can't take a joke about some human traits that you personally may or may not possess, then you must be a rather unpleasant human being with no chance given to yourself for improvement. Jokes aren't just for fun. They're also a way to learn about each other, about ourselves, and about the world. "All work no play makes Jack a dull boy."

Disclaimer: By jokes, I mean genuine jokes meant for a laugh. Slagging off and calling each other names do not fall under this term.

 

[W1zzard]

I've read every single post, thank you for you feedback!

W1zz firmly sticks to the safe SEO route that encourages public access to his programs and site internationally.

Huh? No, I honestly never thought of that

Well gotta say there are too many ways to moderate in TPU, mods can do these:
1.Edit posts
2.Delete posts

Yeah was gonna say: it's all fun and games until the mods can't delete the porn spam because "evidence."

Editing and Deleting posts are never fair, as they can hide evidences of users wrong-doing (or not). Let say some mods can either edit your post or just straght up give out infractions depending on their moods.

All edits to post content (including your own edits) are logged and can be examined and restored. Deletion is also a soft-deletion, which can be reverted. I'm the only one with hard-delete permissions

 

[AusWolf]

You only perceive yourself as a victim because victimhood takes away the responsibility of your own actions. That's why people do it. It's genuinely easier to point a finger outwards, than inwards.

That's the biggest truth bomb I've read on any forum in a long time (and correlates with my above post about jokes massively)!

Very well said sir, I take my hat off to you!

 

[Frick]

If the internet allowed it, I would kindly disagree.

As an Eastern European immigrant to the UK, I hear lots of Eastern European jokes coming from English people at work. But I have a laugh with them because...
1. Jokes usually have some sort of real basis, often exaggerated to the moon (that's what makes them fun), but still...
2. It's a joke - no one is supposed to take offense as it's not targeted at individuals. If you think it's about you, you're an idiot.
3. We're mates. Taking a stab at each other and having a laugh about it isn't just normal, it also passes the time rather quickly. I also joke about them in return, and they take it just as well.
4. If you can't take a joke about some human traits that you personally may or may not possess, then you must be a rather unpleasant human being with no chance given to yourself for improvement. Jokes aren't just for fun. They're also a way to learn about each other, about ourselves, and about the world. "All work no play makes Jack a dull boy."

Disclaimer: By jokes, I mean genuine jokes meant for a laugh. Slagging off and calling each other names do not fall under this term.

I don't understand what "human traits" has to do with it. And points 3 and 4 are mysterious. Why would I make fun of my friends? And are you saying your coworkes make ethnic jokes as way to help you improve ... what exactly? Your background?

And what are you disagreeing with exactly?

 

[nguyen]

I've read every single post, thank you for you feedback!


Huh? No, I honestly never thought of that

All edits to post content (including your own edits) are logged and can be examined and restored. Deletion is also a soft-deletion, which can be reverted. I'm the only one with hard-delete permissions

That is some massive responsibility that you got to shoulder .

May I suggest a time period of LQing before posts are being removed?
People can say a lot of things in one post and just because small part of the post is inappropriate (and the degree of acceptable inappropriateness are varied across mods), the whole post get deleted without users getting the chance to copy his good part of the post LOL

 

[R-T-B]

Spam threads getting deleted is necessary, I agree

As for spam porn/racist/sexist/offtopic/extremelyoffensive posts, getting LQing is enough to deter people from seeing the content anyways. Is TPU some sort of PG13 website that everything that is slightly offensive get automatically deleted?

When a post already got deleted, can other mods chime in a say "nah, it's fine"? so a Mod can just go around deleting posts without getting peer-reviewed? Yes DMing W1zzard is an option, but what for anyways, I would rather W1zzard spent time on reviewing new stuff.

deletes are soft anyways as w1zzard just outlined. What you can't see, is not truly gone, as far as record. I can't say I agree with your idea at all or even establish that it has a necessary foundation as such, frankly.

 

[Deleted member 236339]

If the internet allowed it, I would kindly disagree.

As an Eastern European immigrant to the UK, I hear lots of Eastern European jokes coming from English people at work. But I have a laugh with them because...

1. Jokes usually have some sort of real basis, often exaggerated to the moon (that's what makes them fun), but still...
2. It's a joke - no one is supposed to take offense as it's not targeted at individuals. If you think it's about you, you're an idiot. Everyone and every group has some shortcomings, so why should you be different? And if you are different, then where's the offense?
3. We're mates. Taking a stab at each other and having a laugh about it isn't just normal, it also passes the time rather quickly. I also joke about them in return, and they take it just as well.
4. If you can't take a joke about some human traits that you personally may or may not possess, then you must be a rather unpleasant human being with no chance given to yourself for improvement. Jokes aren't just for fun. They're also a way to learn about each other, about ourselves, and about the world. "All work no play makes Jack a dull boy."

Disclaimer: By jokes, I mean genuine jokes meant for a laugh. Slagging off and calling each other names do not fall under this term.

Point 4: a racist joke is a racist joke. Let's not reverse the charge here, it is not for the recipient to "take one for the team" it is for the sender to stop doing racist jokes. End of.

 

[AusWolf]

I don't understand what "human traits" has to do with it. And points 3 and 4 are mysterious. Why would I make fun of my friends? And are you saying your coworkes make ethnic jokes as way to help you improve ... what exactly? Your background?

By human traits, I meant stereotypes (sorry, my brain is a little foggy after night shift).

You're not making fun of your friends. You're making fun of the stereotypes that your friends may or may not fall into. Let me present an example:

1. The joke goes "You Eastern Europeans are so <insert word here>".
2. I have a choice to
   1. think that the joke is on me and take offense. This obviously makes my time and that of others rather miserable. Or...
   2. look at the joke from an outsider point of view and see why it's funny. There's a lot to learn about the perception of my own kind this way. Understanding jokes about yourself makes you aware of your shortcomings, which is a way to improve as a human being. Not to mention, I personally may not even be <insert word here>, so why would I take offense?

Take Monty Python's Life of Brian as another example. You can take it as an insult towards religious people, or a fun satire on certain human traits (stupidity, over-politicisation, etc.).

Point 4: a racist joke is a racist joke. Let's not reverse the charge here, it is not for the recipient to "take one for the team" it is for the sender to stop doing racist jokes. End of.

I would still argue that a lot depends on the intention behind the joke, but from a legal perspective, you have a point.

 

[Chomiq]

Moderators are on point, I have no issues with their decisions.

 

[Deleted member 236339]

By human traits, I meant stereotypes (sorry, my brain is a little foggy after night shift).

You're not making fun of your friends. You're making fun of the stereotypes that your friends may or may not fall into. Let me present an example:

1. The joke goes "You Eastern Europeans are so <insert word here>".
2. I have a choice to
   1. think that the joke is on me and take offense. This obviously makes my time and that of others rather miserable. Or...
   2. look at the joke from an outsider point of view and see why it's funny. There's a lot to learn about the perception of my own kind this way. Understanding jokes about yourself makes you aware of your shortcomings, which is a way to improve as a human being. Not to mention, I personally may not even be <insert word here>, so why would I take offense?

Take Monty Python's Life of Brian as another example. You can take it as an insult towards religious people, or a fun satire on certain human traits (stupidity, over-politicisation, etc.).


I would still argue that a lot depends on the intention behind the joke, but from a legal perspective, you have a point.

Again, there's no need to reach the legal area at this point. Even if a racist joke comes from your best friend, who is 100% certain not racist otherwise, it is racist. Racism should not even have the luxury to remain as such in conversations, even if this is nested in a joke from someone you trust and call friend. You don't let poison near the kitchen, just in case, while you certainly don't plan on using it. You dispose of it. Well, same here.

 

[tabascosauz]

By human traits, I meant stereotypes (sorry, my brain is a little foggy after night shift).

You're not making fun of your friends. You're making fun of the stereotypes that your friends may or may not fall into. Let me present an example:

1. The joke goes "You Eastern Europeans are so <insert word here>".
2. I have a choice to
   1. think that the joke is on me and take offense. This obviously makes my time and that of others rather miserable. Or...
   2. look at the joke from an outsider point of view and see why it's funny. There's a lot to learn about the perception of my own kind this way. Understanding jokes about yourself makes you aware of your shortcomings, which is a way to improve as a human being. Not to mention, I personally may not even be <insert word here>, so why would I take offense?

Take Monty Python's Life of Brian as an example. You can take it as an insult towards religious people, or a fun satire on certain human traits (stupidity, over-politicisation, etc.).

There can be a time and place for a "joke", depending on context and intentions and how it's received. In this case, this one was a long and either thoroughly unfunny/genuinely ignorant "tirade", depending on how you look at it. In the absence of malice or overt offensiveness, a run of the mill joke at others' expense would probably just be ignored/edited/deleted.

May I suggest a time period of LQing before posts are being removed?
People can say a lot of things in one post and just because small part of the post is inappropriate (and the degree of acceptable inappropriateness are varied across mods), the whole post get deleted without users getting the chance to copy his good part of the post LOL

That is precisely why we often go to those lengths to edit where we can, because we would like to preserve the unoffensive remainder of a post that has proven to be otherwise useful. Would you rather we just delete the whole thing?

We've already established that just leaving all offending content up as LQ is thoroughly unacceptable on every level, so I'm honestly not going to entertain that part.

 

[nguyen]

That is precisely why we often go to those lengths to edit where we can, because we would like to preserve the unoffensive remainder of a post that has proven to be otherwise useful. Would you rather we just delete the whole thing?

We've already established that just leaving all offending content up as LQ is thoroughly unacceptable on every level, so I'm honestly not going to entertain that part.

That's why I said the moderation teams are inconsistent, you would edit posts but some other would remove posts, almost instantly, now can you bring back deleted posts and edit them?

As for offending content, are you sure the moderation team are all in tandem regarding the level of acceptable inappropriateness? some mods can just delete posts they simply disagree with.

 

[the54thvoid]

Again, there's no need to reach the legal area at this point. Even if a racist joke comes from your best friend, who is 100% certain not racist otherwise, it is racist. Racism should not even have the luxury to remain as such in conversations, even if this is nested in a joke from someone you trust and call friend. You don't let poison near the kitchen, just in case, while you certainly don't plan on using it. You dispose of it. Well, same here.

I'd like to add, what some people say as racist, might not be what you infer it to be. Clearly, if I called an ethnic group by a slur, it would be racist. But some terms get labelled as racist, when it might be more nationalist. Some English types might call me a 'Jock'. It's not racist, though it can be meant in a derogatory manner. If I was called a black Jock, the jock part would be the perceived offence, black being descriptive (this gets into unconscious bias). If another term other than 'black' was used, then yeah, it starts getting serious.

Consensual banter between friends shouldn't have bars, but it'd be a strange friendship if it was laced with ethnically racist insults, tbh. And I've have to ask, if there was a minority player in a group of friends, does the minority 'accept' the banter because they want to be part of the group, and are the group aware that they may be causing offence?

But that's just my opinion. It's more clean cut in the eyes of the law, where the context of hate is required (UK).

Incidentally, pic from a mostly forgotten film (1941), which perfectly illustrates some of the above:

 

[W1zzard]

That's why I said the moderation teams are inconsistent, you would edit posts but some other would remove posts, almost instantly

I rather have case-by-case decisions, by humans for humans, than a single policy that doesn't work well for anybody

now can you bring back deleted posts and edit them?

I can do it. Contact the mods or me and make your case

some mods can just delete posts they simply disagree with.

You wouldn't believe the amount of requests we get for "mod deleted my post because he disagreed with it/racist/doesnt like my build/is pro-amd/is pro-nvidia/is pro-intel" .. and nothing ever came out of it

 

[nguyen]

You wouldn't believe the amount of requests we get for "mod deleted my post because he disagreed with it/racist/doesnt like my build/is pro-amd/is pro-nvidia/is pro-intel" .. and nothing ever came out of it

I believe that amount is only the tip of the iceberg , only those who value TPU would ever make those requests, others can just leave.

Anyways there is that sentiment that posting on TPU is like walking on egg shells and I agree.

 

[Assimilator]

Overall I have few problems with the moderation team here in the past year, and I say this as someone who has been suspended multiple times. I especially don't have any problems with removing sexist "jokes", because that shit has no place anywhere. And I'm glad that the "no profanity" rule was basically nuked, because that rule was just unnecessarily obnoxious.

I do however have an issue with the fact that mods keep removing posts where I'm rude to users who are very obviously complete and utter fucking moons. I'm talking about completely making up things, usually allegations against specific companies (MS, Intel and NVIDIA are the favourite targets), that have zero basis in fact. Then other users who are also morons similarly shitpost with their own idiotic take on this made-up bullshit, or their own made-up bullshit, and the thread as a whole derails straight into the toilet. I have zero tolerance for this sort of brain-dead behaviour; civil discourse about technology relies on facts, not unfounded nonsense that you made up because you are so immature that you have a hate boner against a company. That is absolutely the 100% most toxic thread-killing behaviour I can think of.

Yet do the mods do anything about such posts? NOPE. But god forbid that I respond to said posts by using coarse language to belittle the idiots - any such response of mine will be immediately removed, probably because the precious snowflakes with the mental capacity of a dead dog that I'm responding to lack basic self-awareness of how stupid they actually are. All they're capable of are getting offended and parroting their "own" opinions that they got from reddit and Twitter.

Is my behaviour toxic? Sure. But I'm not the one who came into the thread and made it toxic to begin with; I just responded in kind. So basically mods seem to enjoy fixing the symptoms, not the cause. This is especially rich given how mods love to shut down threads at the first sign of those threads going off topic, yet the bullshit posts I'm complaining about that are absolutely more derailing are allowed to remain. WTAF?

Also I had a "your mom" joke edited out of a post, which absolutely floored me. Who the fuck actually gets offended at a "your mom" joke? It takes a lot to make me even more disappointed in people, but that did it.

 

[lemonadesoda]

[observe]
Given how well this forum is moderated, and why do i feel the need to add this second clause that well moderated doesn't mean
perfect because no forum in the same way as no person, no clerk, no cleaner, no team, is perfect I observe with interest how many members have read and engaged in the discussion, and the speed and length at which this thread has developed. This includes myself.

An inline poll to create, and to data collect, on this thread of cathartic release, would be my joy. Said the psychologist.
[/observe]

 

[the54thvoid]

Anyways there is that sentiment that posting on TPU is like walking on egg shells and I agree.

Perhaps a solution would be to not break eggs in the first place?

 

[Toothless]

Overall I have few problems with the moderation team here in the past year, and I say this as someone who has been suspended multiple times. I especially don't have any problems with removing sexist "jokes", because that shit has no place anywhere. And I'm glad that the "no profanity" rule was basically nuked, because that rule was just unnecessarily obnoxious.

I do however have an issue with the fact that mods keep removing posts where I'm rude to users who are very obviously complete and utter fucking moons. I'm talking about completely making up things, usually allegations against specific companies (MS, Intel and NVIDIA are the favourite targets), that have zero basis in fact. Then other users who are also morons similarly shitpost with their own idiotic take on this made-up bullshit, or their own made-up bullshit, and the thread as a whole derails straight into the toilet. I have zero tolerance for this sort of brain-dead behaviour; civil discourse about technology relies on facts, not unfounded nonsense that you made up because you are so immature that you have a hate boner against a company. That is absolutely the 100% most toxic thread-killing behaviour I can think of.

Yet do the mods do anything about such posts? NOPE. But god forbid that I respond to said posts by using coarse language to belittle the idiots - any such response of mine will be immediately removed, probably because the precious snowflakes with the mental capacity of a dead dog that I'm responding to lack basic self-awareness of how stupid they actually are. All they're capable of are getting offended and parroting their "own" opinions that they got from reddit and Twitter.

Is my behaviour toxic? Sure. But I'm not the one who came into the thread and made it toxic to begin with; I just responded in kind. So basically mods seem to enjoy fixing the symptoms, not the cause. This is especially rich given how mods love to shut down threads at the first sign of those threads going off topic, yet the bullshit posts I'm complaining about that are absolutely more derailing are allowed to remain. WTAF?

Also I had a "your mom" joke edited out of a post, which absolutely floored me. Who the fuck actually gets offended at a "your mom" joke? It takes a lot to make me even more disappointed in people, but that did it.

Mate.. just because someone is lost doesn't mean it's okay to belittle them.

 

[Frick]

Overall I have few problems with the moderation team here in the past year, and I say this as someone who has been suspended multiple times. I especially don't have any problems with removing sexist "jokes", because that shit has no place anywhere. And I'm glad that the "no profanity" rule was basically nuked, because that rule was just unnecessarily obnoxious.

I do however have an issue with the fact that mods keep removing posts where I'm rude to users who are very obviously complete and utter fucking moons. I'm talking about completely making up things, usually allegations against specific companies (MS, Intel and NVIDIA are the favourite targets), that have zero basis in fact. Then other users who are also morons similarly shitpost with their own idiotic take on this made-up bullshit, or their own made-up bullshit, and the thread as a whole derails straight into the toilet. I have zero tolerance for this sort of brain-dead behaviour; civil discourse about technology relies on facts, not unfounded nonsense that you made up because you are so immature that you have a hate boner against a company. That is absolutely the 100% most toxic thread-killing behaviour I can think of.

Yet do the mods do anything about such posts? NOPE. But god forbid that I respond to said posts by using coarse language to belittle the idiots - any such response of mine will be immediately removed, probably because the precious snowflakes with the mental capacity of a dead dog that I'm responding to lack basic self-awareness of how stupid they actually are. All they're capable of are getting offended and parroting their "own" opinions that they got from reddit and Twitter.

Is my behaviour toxic? Sure. But I'm not the one who came into the thread and made it toxic to begin with; I just responded in kind. So basically mods seem to enjoy fixing the symptoms, not the cause. This is especially rich given how mods love to shut down threads at the first sign of those threads going off topic, yet the bullshit posts I'm complaining about that are absolutely more derailing are allowed to remain. WTAF?

Also I had a "your mom" joke edited out of a post, which absolutely floored me. Who the fuck actually gets offended at a "your mom" joke? It takes a lot to make me even more disappointed in people, but that did it.

Adding more toxicicty does not help. We all wish it did, but it never does.

 

[low]

Most of the time you feel like dr house:

There is this difference between "i dont know. i ask a simple question" and this advanced and improved stupidity. There was a study about young ppl below 30. A mayority is no longer interested in hardware in detail. They behave like homo australopithecus in terms of building and reparing computers and electronics. Its this handyman thing on southpark.

 

[lemonadesoda]

Jamaican chicken recipes! Love it.

Anyway, the way you have to see it with the moderators is as follows: They don't have time to go and trail through the reasons and the who-started-its. If you let yourself rise to the bait, and you got involved, such that your post, when taken out of context, deserves infraction points then you'll get infraction points. The discussion of who-started-it is all very relevant to you individually, but the fact is, irrespective, if an any post fails the rules and language expectations of the forum, it gets an edit or infraction.

 

[Assimilator]

Mate.. just because someone is lost doesn't mean it's okay to belittle them.

If you are able to post stupid shit on a forum, that means you have access to the internet.
Having access to the internet means you are able to educate yourself to the point where you don't post stupid shit.
Ergo, if you post stupid shit, you haven't bothered to educate yourself, you are wasting my time, and I will not treat you kindly. Ignorance is never an excuse.

 

[Toothless]

If you are able to post stupid shit on a forum, that means you have access to the internet.
Having access to the internet means you are able to educate yourself to the point where you don't post stupid shit.
Ergo, if you post stupid shit, you haven't bothered to educate yourself, you are wasting my time, and I will not treat you kindly. Ignorance is never an excuse.

The better thing to do there is just not reply to the thread. Sometimes people need a direction to solve problems and that's part of a forum like this. Telling someone they're an idiot when they're just trying to find help doesn't contribute or solve anything.