Developers of ‘Call of Duty: WWII’ Scrub Swastika From ‘Historically Authentic’ Game

[OSdevr]

It's also what a Micrsoft AI concluded when left to it's own devices learning solely from social media:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...-ai-turns-into-a-hitler-loving-sex-robot-wit/

I can't believe they brought sexism and feminism into that article. It's a robot! It learns from the internet. It has nothing to do with either the "gender disparity in tech" or Microsofts "sexism". And the sentence "It seems like yet another example of female-voiced AI servitude, except this time she's turned into a sex slave thanks to the people using her on Twitter." speaks volumes about the author.

 

[R-T-B]

I can't believe they brought sexism and feminism into that article. It's a robot! It learns from the internet. It has nothing to do with either the "gender disparity in tech" or Microsofts "sexism". And the sentence "It seems like yet another example of female-voiced AI servitude, except this time she's turned into a sex slave thanks to the people using her on Twitter." speaks volumes about the author.

Not really. It's quite possible that they made her behave in what they expected to be "typically female" and if so, that's sexism down to a tee. I can't say, I haven't seen the code either way, but it isn't a huge leap of faith.

 

[newtekie1]

I think the outcry over removing the Swastika is completely stupid. It hasn't been removed from the campaign. It has only been excluded from modes of play where it isn't necessary to be historically accurate. I mean, is it really that outrageous that they aren't being historically accurate in the game mode where you play with your friend to see who can kill the most zombies? Because, there were Zombies in WWII, right?

I mean, seriously, get over it. They wanted to be respectful and not display it in parts of the game where it wasn't necessary to be historically accurate, but they left in parts of the game where it was. To call this "scrubbing" is completely moronic. To even complain about this is inane, IMO.

 

[OSdevr]

Not really. It's quite possible that they made her behave in what they expected to be "typically female" and if so, that's sexism down to a tee.

Is it? Sexism is derogatory, and that is not necessarily so in an AI programmed to be 'female'. Both Google Home and Amazon Echo have a female voice. Are they considered instances of "female-voiced AI servitude"? The author of the above article seems to think so.

EDIT: well of course she thinks so, but the fact remains they are just computers, nothing more.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

I think the outcry over removing the Swastika is completely stupid. It hasn't been removed from the campaign. It has only been excluded from modes of play where it isn't necessary to be historically accurate. I mean, is it really that outrageous that they aren't being historically accurate in the game mode where you play with your friend to see who can kill the most zombies? Because, there were Zombies in WWII, right?

I mean, seriously, get over it. They wanted to be respectful and not display it in parts of the game where it wasn't necessary to be historically accurate, but they left in parts of the game where it was. To call this "scrubbing" is completely moronic. To even complain about this is inane, IMO.

Were it being removed from just zombie mode I'd agree with you, but my understanding is it's being removed from all online play.

 

[R-T-B]

Sexism is derogatory

Not neccesarily.

 

[newtekie1]

Were it being removed from just zombie mode I'd agree with you, but my understanding is it's being removed from all online play.

None of the online modes are "historically accurate" so there is no need for it to be there. The campaign is telling a story, to make that story more immersive the level designs are historically accurate. It make sense to have swastikas in the campaign. It is in no way necessary that they be in the multiplayer modes.

 

[Frick]

So it's online only they won't have it? Then I see bo problems with it whatsoever.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

None of the online modes are "historically accurate" so there is no need for it to be there. The campaign is telling a story, to make that story more immersive the level designs are historically accurate. It make sense to have swastikas in the campaign. It is in no way necessary that they be in the multiplayer modes.

I fail to understand your reasoning there. For one, there's simply no reason online modes can't be portrayed just as accurately as the campaign. Usually mp play is an extension of sp play using humans vs bots. I also see no sense to implying accuracy matters more or less in sp or mp, they should be portrayed equally well. I also see no reason to assume swastikas in mp would be more offensive than in sp. In fact it even sounds kinda dismissive to sp players, as if their concerns don't count were they for some reason offended by it.

It comes down to this, if people can't differentiate virtual fighting from actual fighting, it's a bit dangerous they even be allowed to play online modes for psychological reasons. These are just games, not political agendas. They shouldn't become bully pulpits for rights activists. I mean do people freak out like this when the tons of WWII movies have swastikas in them? This kind of censoring will have no limits if people don't start recognizing it as an insult to the gaming industry, as if it's patrons that want historical accuracy are somehow bullies.

 

[newtekie1]

I fail to understand your reasoning there. For one, there's simply no reason online modes can't be portrayed just as accurately as the campaign. Usually mp play is an extension of sp play using humans vs bots. I also see no sense to implying accuracy matters more or less in sp or mp, they should be portrayed equally well. I also see no reason to assume swastikas in mp would be more offensive than in sp. In fact it even sounds kinda dismissive to sp players, as if their concerns don't count were they for some reason offended by it.

It comes down to this, if people can't differentiate virtual fighting from actual fighting, it's a bit dangerous they even be allowed to play online modes for psychological reasons. These are just games, not political agendas. They shouldn't become bully pulpits for rights activists. I mean do people freak out like this when the tons of WWII movies have swastikas in them? This kind of censoring will have no limits if people don't start recognizing it as an insult to the gaming industry, as if it's patrons that want historical accuracy are somehow bullies.

Again, in the campaign a story is being told. Swastikas are a part of that story being historically accurate. There is no story being told in multiplayer, there is no need to be historically accurate there. Multiplayer is not an extension of the single player campaign. No story is being told in the multiplayer modes.

And no one is freaking out about the swastikas being there. The reverse seems to be the case, people are freaking out because the swastikas aren't there. If the game designers decide to not put swastikas in parts of the game that don't require them to provide an immersive story, who is anyone to complain about it? It is their game, they can design it anyway they want. If they want to be respectful and only include swastikas where it is necessary to provide an immersive story and no where else, we shouldn't be bashing them for it.

 

[blobster21]

It is their game, they can design it anyway they want.

It boils down to this.

 

[R-T-B]

Pink Floyd managed it with "The Wall" years ago. Everyone got the idea that it was a stylized swastika

If you ask me, it's a stylized hammer and sickle just as much.

 

[CAPSLOCKSTUCK]

If you ask me, it's a stylized hammer and sickle just as much.

 

[R-T-B]

Hey, I know the history. I'm just stating first-impression looking at it as if I was dumb as dirt.

 

[yogurt_21]

It is their game, they can design it anyway they want.

As a free citizen I'll buy and bash what I want. It's my money and my voice.

 

[R-T-B]

As a free citizen I'll buy and bash what I want. It's my money and my voice.

I love the free market for that reason.

 

[neatfeatguy]

It's actually an alt-right conspiracy to deny the Nazis ever existed and the Holocaust the therefore never happened.

Scarily, this is actually a likely side effect for those that don't study history and use popular media for facts.

My grandpa (just turned 97 this past February), his platoon was first into one of the prison camps that was liberated in WWII. To this day, he still won't talk about what he saw there and he'll say very little about much of the war. All he's told me is that he was an engineer, his team was tasked with building bridges as their one of their main jobs to get vehicles across bodies of water. He's mentioned at times they did this while under fire - could hear bullets whizzing by and see artillery shells striking nearby.

If someone tried telling him none of this happened nor existed, he'd probably still kick their ass.

This PC stuff needs to stop.

Agreed.

I'm not a politically correct person, I say things as I see them and I don't spare people's feelings. In my neighborhood there are a few Hmong/Vietnamese/Chinese families. They have 10+ people living in 1300-1400sqft townhouses. The little kids, they're always outside playing. They love dogs that people walk around with and most ask if they can pet my Siberian Huskies as I walk by.....but if a Grandma is outside with the kids...she is yelling at the kids and dragging them away from the dogs. Every asian grandma I've seen at these households are the same, yelling at me in their native tongue and dismissively waving their hands at my dogs and me as I walk past if they're outside....I grew tired of them doing this and made sure to comment the last time one of them did this:

I smiled at her and said, "I guess you're used to eating dogs rather than having them as pets."

I don't know if she understood me or not, but my wife was with and she's hit me in the arm and said that I can't say things like that. I told her I can say what I damn please, it doesn't hurt my feelings if they get offended, it's their problem. The world isn't a happy, friendly place. Feelings get hurt and life moves on. Trying to make everyone be PC is a bunch of BS, if you ask me.

 

[Nabarun]

The name Swastika comes from Sanskrit and denotes a "conducive to well being or auspicious".The clockwise swastika is a sacred and auspicious symbol in Buddhism, Hinduism and Jainism. In Hinduism, the clockwise symbol is called swastika symbolizing surya (sun) and prosperity, while the counter clockwise symbol is called sauvastika symbolizing night or tantric aspects of Kali. In Jainism, a swastika is the symbol for Suparshvanatha – the 7th of 24 Tirthankaras (spiritual teachers and saviours), while in Buddhism it symbolizes the auspicious footprints of the Buddha. -Wikipedia.

"Historically accurate" my ass.

 

[de.das.dude]

As a Hindu i find this highly offensive that SJWs think our religious symbol of auspiciousness is revolting

 

[Frag_Maniac]

Again, in the campaign a story is being told. Swastikas are a part of that story being historically accurate. There is no story being told in multiplayer, there is no need to be historically accurate there. Multiplayer is not an extension of the single player campaign. No story is being told in the multiplayer modes.

And no one is freaking out about the swastikas being there. The reverse seems to be the case, people are freaking out because the swastikas aren't there. If the game designers decide to not put swastikas in parts of the game that don't require them to provide an immersive story, who is anyone to complain about it? It is their game, they can design it anyway they want. If they want to be respectful and only include swastikas where it is necessary to provide an immersive story and no where else, we shouldn't be bashing them for it.

Well, isn't a "picture worth a 1000 words"? Meaning you don't need a story to depict history. I would also argue if anything those playing mp are more nit picky about accuracy if anything, including obsessing over weapons and uniforms. Visual accuracy is a big part of both movies and games.

No one favoring the censorship is freaking out until you read the comments of those whom are offended once such things ARE included, which is also why they ARE censoring it and some countries even ban such games, which I feel is ridiculous. Nazis ARE offensive, but not merely because they wore swastikas. That is the silliness really in nutshell.

I'm not arguing that the game design isn't theirs, that's obvious. I'm arguing it's unfair to avid mp gamers to censor it completely. There are plenty games that have a gore and/or obscenity option you can toggle on or off. Why not so called "offensive" insignia as well?

It's lazy, inconsiderate development, that only caters to the sensitive for reason of profit (to avoid it being banned in certain countries). For a franchise that is clearly one of the largest, they could have easily afforded to have a toggle option for swastikas. It's a simple idea that appeases more players, hence more profit, so why wouldn't they?

To just answer they can design it anyway they want cleary shows they and some gamers don't give a rats ass about anyone's interests but their own. I mean come on, you know anything controlled by Activision is about high profits for short dev time spent. They don't tend to look at the big picture, except to imply so when it's convenient for PR.

If anyone believes Acti did this out of respect, you are kidding yourselves.

 

[hat]

The amount of ignorance, stupidity and lack of knowledge from those Producers is outstanding:

“It’s a dark symbol and we have to be really respectful and mindful of customs and regulations of different territories and we wanted the whole community to play it together.”
Dark symbol?? That moron doesn't know that the Swastika symbol was stolen from the Buddhists and Hindu that are using it the same for their temples:

Among other thinks they shamelessly stolen, the Nazis also stole the Roman Salute and the Roman Legions Eagle used for the 3rd Reich.

People needs to be more aware about those facts before starting judgement and banning stuff.

It is a dark symbol, now. Who really thinks of Buddhist temples when they think Swastika? Almost nobody. Just like the dreaded n-word. It used to mean, long ago, a foolish person. It had nothing to do with skin color. Now it's an offensive term for black people. In fact, dictionaries have changed the term now to mean an offensive term for black people. So yeah, swastika, Nazi Germany, hatred and genocide of millions of people... that's what it is now.

That said, I think it's foolish to scrub it from the game. How does one depict WWII Nazi Germany without it? Does one pretend it never existed? I'd rather argue that it's a slap in the face not to include it. If you're going to do something with WWII, the swastika was there, it was real. It happened. Don't pretend it never existed. People are so worried about being politically correct they fail to realize they're being offensive by trying so hard not to be offensive... at least in my eyes.

 

[R-T-B]

It is a dark symbol, now. Who really thinks of Buddhist temples when they think Swastika?

Buddhists?

 

[Frag_Maniac]

It is a dark symbol, now.

This is exactly why censoring goes over the top. Do we really want to let certain groups of people dictate what iconic symbols stand for? Do we look at the holy cross as evil just because some cults portray it inverted to signify evil?

 

[Caring1]

Is it? Sexism is derogatory, and that is not necessarily so in an AI programmed to be 'female'. Both Google Home and Amazon Echo have a female voice. Are they considered instances of "female-voiced AI servitude"? The author of the above article seems to think so.

EDIT: well of course she thinks so, but the fact remains they are just computers, nothing more.

Female sounding voice.
To assume it is a female voice is sexist. Not all males have deep voices.

 

[hat]

Buddhists?

Touché.

This is exactly why censoring goes over the top. Do we really want to let certain groups of people dictate what iconic symbols stand for? Do we look at the holy cross as evil just because some cults portray it inverted to signify evil?

No, censorship goes over the top because everybody is so easily offended and makes a big deal out of everything anymore. It's ridiculous what people get in trouble for these days. Certain groups of people do dictate what symbols, or words, or whatever else stand for, because that's just how things work. The swastika is now an evil symbol because of the years and years of horrible crimes against humanity done by the people who bore that symbol. Sure, they stole it from somewhere else, but honestly, who is going to think of anything else besides Nazis when they see the swastika (besides maybe Buddhists)? That symbol has been there, and those were huge events that went on for a long time which deeply scarred the world. Same story with the n-word. Should we let that symbol stand for that? I think so. It's horrible what happened, but because of that, that's what the symbol is now. To turn around and try to say it's a peaceful symbol would be a huge slap in the face to anybody who has been truly scarred by it.

The cross isn't seen as a symbol of evil because how big are these cults? How often do we see upside-down crosses? Are these cults responsible for horrible wrongdoings on a large scale? I'd wager the answers to be pretty small, not often, and no, not on a large scale, although they're probably responsible for some pretty horrible shit on a much smaller scale as Nazi Germany. So, the symbol doesn't get the same recognition from the world as the swastika. That said, that particular symbol isn't the greatest example, because it's not really the same thing. I've always understood the normal cross as a symbol of Christ, and the upside down cross as a symbol of evil. It's not quite the same symbol. Having said that, I still maintain my argument.