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Microsoft Account and Internet Connection Mandatory for Windows 11 Home Setup

TheLostSwede

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Says the same for me on my 5900X main. I'm pretty sure it's just bugged to hell and back. It's Microsoft, it's always going to be a gong show.

View attachment 205313

Looking at the system requirements, I think we (ie. everyone who tried to preload the leaked ISO) overlooked the requirement for a TPM 2.0. Whether this is a hardware TPM like in my XPS 9370 or a virtual TPM will work (ie. Ryzen PSP) I'm not sure. It could be that the wizard/installer is just getting caught up on the mandatory TPM.

That, or it also checks if your current Windows 10 installation is running Secure Boot. Vast majority of us who know how to clean install Windows are only running UEFI with Secure Boot off, methinks. The website just says Secure Boot-capable only, but well...this is Microsoft we're talking about.

Time to go check on my XPS 9370 and re-enable the AMD PSP on my 5900X and 4650G to check.
Simply enable AMD fTPM in the UEFI and it works just fine.

1624623246315.png
 
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"Windows 11 Home edition requires internet connectivity and a Microsoft Account to complete device setup on first use,"
That's for license activation I suppose
In addition, all editions of Windows 11 will require Internet connection to receive updates, and a Microsoft Account for some tasks.
IIRC you have to have Microsoft Account to use Windows starting from Windows 8
 
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IIRC you have to have Microsoft Account to use Windows starting from Windows 8
You don't have to have one, even now in Windows 10 Home. You need it to do certain things, like download some apps from the store, but you don't have to have one to use the OS.

The uproar now is because Windows 11 Home will required you to have one just to set up the OS. Though there has been nothing stated that you have to continue to use a Microsoft Account after the initial setup. So there is nothing stopping you from just using a MS Account to setup the OS, then switching to a local account and deleting the MS Account.
 
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My head literally hurts after reading some comments here.
Imagine being bothered so much to create a new email to use Windows, the CORE part of the software on your computer, when you have to create a billion accounts for almost anything right now (Spotify, Gigabyte for support etc etc etc etc).
Also, the ones whining about Microsoft shoving stuff up your throat are also crazy. I have literally never had any issues with Windows 10, even with the forced updates. Last time I had problems were back when Windows 8 launched and the driver support was pretty crappy, but it was OK when 8.1 was released.
If you find creating an account (1 minute) intrusive or frustrating, then don't use it. Easy. You still have 4 more years to use Windows 10.
 
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As long as Pro and Enterprise editions are not affected this way, I don't care (I wouldn't bother with Win11 until it's absolutely necessary).
 
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As long as Pro and Enterprise editions are not affected this way, I don't care (I wouldn't bother with Win11 until it's absolutely necessary).
Pro and Enterprise will work like before, mainly because companies use them and want to have as much control as possible regarding usage of their PCs.
 
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I remember seeing people complaining about full screen phones and virtual keyboards, how they hated to type on glass... now typing on glass has become the new standard, the kids who grew up with those devices will never understand what the fuss was about.
But was there any choice? No, because making touch only devices was halted and only touch devices remained being manufactured and realistically is that full keyboard on phone is better than touch one and will always be, but since hardly anybody types it's impractical to have a decent keyboard. There was no choice and industry forced their shit onto us. That we didn't become militant, doesn't mean that new technology is necessarily better.

Microsoft is basically trying stuff out, look what sticks, and eventually get rid of what people didn't ended up using. (wich granted isn't ideal, but the end user doesn't always know what he really needs either.
They did that ever since Windows 8. MS clearly tries to force their shit onto us that we never asked for. And pretty much nobody liked 8, people were ambivalent about 10 and it seems that people don't like 11. Nothing has changed. It's as clear as day that MS is trying to push some crap that nobody wants.


Henry Ford said : "if I asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses")
Poor analogy.

Win 11 won't come with some of win 10 bloatware. Some people hate the xbox gamebar, but after using it, I actually find it more convenient to use and with a lower memory footprint than most after market programs.

View attachment 205366
Much bloat wow
It doesn't matter if I use it or not, why it's not optional to get rid of it? Microsoft is definitely pushing their game pass and xbl gold, aka nickel and diming at every corner.

I guess that I'm among the people who "grew up like this" when it comes to the Microsoft account being mandatory, in most of my tech life 90% of the software that I use are either not allowing an incognito mode, or offer a limited experience if you choose to go offline. (and since my work/field of study are closely related to social media, I have no choice but to mingle with the GAFAM).
Well, I used Windows XP and 7 a lot. Windows 10 or 11 has absolutely no reason to force you to sign in into some stupid account just to use your goddamn OS. It's stupid and again done probably for extra telemetry and extended nickel and diming.

The TPM and secure boot is already the default on some "new" laptops. My 2020 Dell inspiron is compatible with win11 with the default settings.
That doesn't mean that TPM requirements isn't stupid. And that only means that MS artificially makes perfectly functional hardware obsolete. That's probably the reason why they are scared to charge people for OS that is clearly dumpster fire.
 
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But was there any choice? No, because making touch only devices was halted and only touch devices remained being manufactured and realistically is that full keyboard on phone is better than touch one and will always be, but since hardly anybody types it's impractical to have a decent keyboard. There was no choice and industry forced their shit onto us. That we didn't become militant, doesn't mean that new technology is necessarily better.
Blackberry and a few other brands stuck with it, but that wasn't enough to make up for the whole experience that a full screen bring/or the added bulk and price wasn't seen as a good trade once people got used to type on glass. They eventually got rid of the keyboard before their ultimate fall. Tell to gen z that hardly anybody type on their smartphones ;). Snapchat turned consistent messaging into a game. It's one case where the benefits of the hardware keyboard wasn't enough
Poor analogy.
I wasn't talking about win 11 per say, but in the broader sense of things. You have to take some risk if you want to move foward, asking people what they want won't always translate into a successful business. Nobody asked for a tablet, a lot of forum members mocked the iPad and said that it was going to fail, "laptop are already a thing" and yet here we are. The user care about its immediate needs, a product designer need to anticipate trends and the evolution of usages. A new type of product can create new needs and new habits that the user couldn't have possibly fathomed. This guy is actually making a living with the iPad Pro : http://www.kylelambert.com/ . He worked for Netflix, Marvel, Disney... A product that nobody asked for, enabled new workflow.

Another example, a few decades ago, electronics device weren't sold with charged battery, and nobody complained about it, it was normal to wait to charge your device before using it. As soon as one guy decided that it wasn't okay and decided to sell devices that were ready to be used out of the box, people realized that it was an issue. (again, I'm not talking about win 11).

The thing with Microsoft is that they are often not very good at anticipating, and their user base is far too broad. The things that might make one side happy, will displease the other side. So there's an "overdose" effect whenever they try something new. Even if the new product/service doesn't break anything, because of that one other product that did break stuff, people are just generally annoyed.

I said this before but yea, those Microsoft account are where they are taking data about how people are using windows....wich doesn't include most "power user" since they are actively fighting it :D most of their data must be from people who don't care about all of that.

Telemetry is a thing because survey have lots of drawbacks : people need to make the effort to answer, if it's too long they won't finish it, if it's too short there isn't enough data, people are not always honest, even on little things, etc... while the ideology of telemetry is very "big-brother" like, it's the most honest feedback that a company can get on their customers.

At the of the day, Microsoft is there to make money. And seeing how little of their revenue Windows represent now, it's almost surprising that they are still trying hard. For what it's worth, if Microsoft decided to drop the ball tomorrow and make windows free and open source/GNU , that would only hurt the vision that they are trying to have with the Xbox + PC, but in the grand scheme of things, it would hardly impact them. (the game pass is actually really great, I've played games that I wouldn't have touched otherwise, the backend is just horrible sometimes)
1624649576861.png
 
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Blackberry and a few other brands stuck with it, but that wasn't enough to make up for the whole experience that a full screen bring/or the added bulk and price wasn't seen as a good trade once people got used to type on glass. They eventually got rid of the keyboard before their ultimate fall. Tell to gen z that hardly anybody type on their smartphones ;). Snapchat turned consistent messaging into a game. It's one case where the benefits of the hardware keyboard wasn't enough
Blackberry fell, because their phones were shit and they fucked up their launch of app store. Keyboard alone almost had no impact on their failure. And there were other keyboarded phones like Sony X10 Mini Pro, HTC Dream.


I wasn't talking about win 11 per say, but in the broader sense of things. You have to take some risk if you want to move foward, asking people what they want won't always translate into a successful business. Nobody asked for a tablet, a lot of forum members mocked the iPad and said that it was going to fail, "laptop are already a thing" and yet here we are. The user care about its immediate needs, a product designer need to anticipate trends and the evolution of usages. A new type of product can create new needs and new habits that the user couldn't have possibly fathomed. This guy is actually making a living with the iPad Pro : http://www.kylelambert.com/ . He worked for Netflix, Marvel, Disney... A product that nobody asked for, enabled new workflow.
Making experience ass for majority to make poor experience for super tiny minority is stupid. Windows Mobile and Windows should never be same OS and should be treated so. Just like iOS wasn't Mac OS back in the day. The only reason why they merge them is to reduce development costs of the products into one product. Otherwise, no self respecting developer would ever try to pull this shit. You can't make mobile interface work well on desktop, just like you can't make desktop interface for well on mobile stuff. It's not moving forwards, it's only moving forward in terms of Microsoft finances, about which I don't care.

And btw tablet sales have been pretty much in toilet after initial iPad hype. they became niche thing just like they always were. Even fucking hybrids and 2 in 1s probably outsell them now. So they were stupid device that nobody wanted, but due to Apple clout and hype sold for a while well. Yay. Now they went to their graveyard.


Another example, a few decades ago, electronics device weren't sold with charged battery, and nobody complained about it, it was normal to wait to charge your device before using it. As soon as one guy decided that it wasn't okay and decided to sell devices that were ready to be used out of the box, people realized that it was an issue. (again, I'm not talking about win 11).
It likely wasn't the reason either. I heard that half charged batteries survive longer in shipping and have lower chance of arriving faulty. Keeping lithium battery flat out empty is likely hurting their lifespan.


The thing with Microsoft is that they are often not very good at anticipating, and their user base is far too broad. The things that might make one side happy, will displease the other side. So there's an "overdose" effect whenever they try something new. Even if the new product/service doesn't break anything, because of that one other product that did break stuff, people are just generally annoyed.
Pretty much since Windows 7 has been in existential crisis over what it wants to be. To please Karens or to be a proper power user OS, now that is a question.


I said this before but yea, those Microsoft account are where they are taking data about how people are using windows....which doesn't include most "power user" since they are actively fighting it :D most of their data must be from people who don't care about all of that.
In my country at least 70% of Windows users use cracked Windows anyway, so lol


Telemetry is a thing because survey have lots of drawbacks : people need to make the effort to answer, if it's too long they won't finish it, if it's too short there isn't enough data, people are not always honest, even on little things, etc... while the ideology of telemetry is very "big-brother" like, it's the most honest feedback that a company can get on their customers.
Or Microsoft shouldn't have fired their beta testers and QA department, but as long as they save money...


At the of the day, Microsoft is there to make money. And seeing how little of their revenue Windows represent now, it's almost surprising that they are still trying hard.
They don't even try hard. 11 is just 10 with lipstick. 10 was 7 with lipstick. Vista was 7 beta. XP was just like 95. 8.1 was a real experiment and I could see its appeal, but once they angered office Karens, tablet Karens had to shut up and accept that 10 won't be so tablet oriented.


For what it's worth, if Microsoft decided to drop the ball tomorrow and make windows free and open source/GNU , that would only hurt the vision that they are trying to have with the Xbox + PC, but in the grand scheme of things, it would hardly impact them. (the game pass is actually really great, I've played games that I wouldn't have touched otherwise, the backend is just horrible sometimes)
View attachment 205420
Jesus, stop scaring little kids. Microsoft and open source. Sun will sooner hit Earth than Microsoft doing that.


On serious note, Windows RT was pretty good, but it flopped, because there weren't enough quality software on Microsoft store. Now that was a proper tablet OS and it didn't anger desktop users. MS should have just sticked with that and made RT for tablets forever and Windows for office Karens and nerds forever. Xbox shit could be integrated later on both and as suggestion, not as something showed down our throats. All these excuses and rationalization about 11 are just because it's a sucky OS and it won't work all that well on tablet and on desktop. It's a poop solution to both, instead of elegant forking.
 

pvanb

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Guess you have made an email account in a while
Make one and get back to us ;)
domain names can be had for 1 to 2 dollars per year, then you have your OWN email and website and also proton mail option is OK
 
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domain names can be had for 1 to 2 dollars per year, then you have your OWN email and website and also proton mail option is OK
Hi,
Yep godaddy lol but you'll likely get tagged as a spammer :)
 
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Low quality post by pvanb

pvanb

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Really doesn't matter seeing neither are ms accounts lol
you can have your own email and web so you do NOT require an email service provider...YOU are the service provider....ms account? not for this guy, I use linux, amigados latest release, FreeBSD....I only have Win 7 for some web surfing with Brave so I can earn BAT (Brave rewards, which can be traded for Bitcoin or other cryptos)
 
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computing is not democracy at all now............. :p
 
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Blackberry fell, because their phones were shit and they fucked up their launch of app store. Keyboard alone almost had no impact on their failure. And there were other keyboarded phones like Sony X10 Mini Pro, HTC Dream.



Making experience ass for majority to make poor experience for super tiny minority is stupid. Windows Mobile and Windows should never be same OS and should be treated so. Just like iOS wasn't Mac OS back in the day. The only reason why they merge them is to reduce development costs of the products into one product. Otherwise, no self respecting developer would ever try to pull this shit. You can't make mobile interface work well on desktop, just like you can't make desktop interface for well on mobile stuff. It's not moving forwards, it's only moving forward in terms of Microsoft finances, about which I don't care.

And btw tablet sales have been pretty much in toilet after initial iPad hype. they became niche thing just like they always were. Even fucking hybrids and 2 in 1s probably outsell them now. So they were stupid device that nobody wanted, but due to Apple clout and hype sold for a while well. Yay. Now they went to their graveyard.



It likely wasn't the reason either. I heard that half charged batteries survive longer in shipping and have lower chance of arriving faulty. Keeping lithium battery flat out empty is likely hurting their lifespan.



Pretty much since Windows 7 has been in existential crisis over what it wants to be. To please Karens or to be a proper power user OS, now that is a question.



In my country at least 70% of Windows users use cracked Windows anyway, so lol



Or Microsoft shouldn't have fired their beta testers and QA department, but as long as they save money...



They don't even try hard. 11 is just 10 with lipstick. 10 was 7 with lipstick. Vista was 7 beta. XP was just like 95. 8.1 was a real experiment and I could see its appeal, but once they angered office Karens, tablet Karens had to shut up and accept that 10 won't be so tablet oriented.



Jesus, stop scaring little kids. Microsoft and open source. Sun will sooner hit Earth than Microsoft doing that.


On serious note, Windows RT was pretty good, but it flopped, because there weren't enough quality software on Microsoft store. Now that was a proper tablet OS and it didn't anger desktop users. MS should have just sticked with that and made RT for tablets forever and Windows for office Karens and nerds forever. Xbox shit could be integrated later on both and as suggestion, not as something showed down our throats. All these excuses and rationalization about 11 are just because it's a sucky OS and it won't work all that well on tablet and on desktop. It's a poop solution to both, instead of elegant forking.
That's why I mentioned "few other brands" as well ;), but even android brands ended up giving up on the keyboard. I never said that the keyboard was a reason for failure, but that people didn't saw the keyboard as a must have feature, and now you have the gen Z who grew up with virtual keyboard and are really good with them.

Tablet sales are growing:
Worldwide Tablet Market Shares, 1Q21: After Recording Hypergrowth for Most of 2020, the Tablet Market in the New Year Continued to Ride the Wave (idc.com)
Worldwide Tablet Shipments Return to Growth in 2020, Fueled by Unprecedented Demand, according to IDC
Canalys: Surging tablet sales offset desktop PC declines in Q2 2020 | VentureBeat
and Hybrids don't outsell them, but this sudden growth also coincide with the moment that tablet stopped being bigger phones and started to have and an interface and apps of their own.
1624692699834.png

this doesn't look like a failing market to me:
1624693243965.png


I mean...:D
Microsoft Open Source | Microsoft Open Source
I remember people saying that GitHub is doomed when Microsoft bought them...the Tech world is still scarred by the Gates/Ballmer era, but I honestly feel like Microsoft has become softer. I mean a linux subsystem inside Windows?

Just to be clear, I'm merely explaining the reasoning as to why Microsoft hasn't just been selling a glorified Windows 2000 for decades, computers aren't just a nerd affair anymore, the world into which win 2000 was born and the world right now are quite different, so they had to adapt and cater to a mainstream audience...But I'm not saying that make a perfect job at it ( I still think that people are sometimes going overboard with the criticism, there's a lot of admin tools that I can't uninstall and that I have no use for, but I'm not mad about them ) The issue is that unlike macOS who's really focused on their target, windows is schizophrenic visually and functionally.

macOS was always meant to be mainstream, simple, and ready to use for most common task out of the box with their bundled software. That was always the pitch, and that was always why people bought macs. Windows background is different, it's complex, you had so much control over it that you could break it if you were careless or went too hard with the optimizer tools :D. It's the "default" OS because the computers are cheap, most programs and games are there, but windows itself isn't really "sexy". Alternative ISO, and tools always tried to make the base Windows better

Now Windows is trying to be like macOS, an OS that a mainstream user won't feel the need to enhance so much...some stuffs are good like the multi desktop, the clipboard history...but they are still oblivious to tabs in the explorer, being able to have a quick look at a file when pressing space, or colors and tags for folders, but are doing weird niche things like paint 3D, or how they don't implement video screen recording into the snapshot tool, but don't tell you that the xbox shortcut can record the whole screen, not just games, so you don't actually need OBS for that.

When people are saying that a version of windows was good, they just meant that it wasn't bugged, or offensive, and they were still installing add-ons to make the basic experience better. That's why I'm considering that the intent to add new functionalities isn't bad, but the windows team need to really focus on productivity tools first and entertainment later. Right now macOS looks like a more serious OS when it's supposed to be the funny one

I agree that they should have kept the beta testing, but people don't daily drive beta version, beta testing is good to see how people react to new things, find bugs, but it's not great to see how people use windows on a day-to-day basis for their main usages. And beta testers are still a small data set who tends to be tech savvy

Why iPod Batteries Come Fully Charged: How Your Design Wins Customers (entrepreneurship.org)
1624700175016.png

Most of the stuff that I'm saying are coming from books that I've read about UX design, and my studies in post grad digital design, we had a whole course about how gathering data is important to make a product, but there's isn't a perfect way to do it, you either got methods that generate small amounts of data, and can be dishonest, since people knows that they are being tested, so they act in a different manner, or methods that are invasive, but really effective and truthful.
 
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That's why I mentioned "few other brands" as well ;), but even android brands ended up giving up on the keyboard. I never said that the keyboard was a reason for failure, but that people didn't saw the keyboard as a must have feature, and now you have the gen Z who grew up with virtual keyboard and are really good with them.
And guess who is responsible for keyboards becoming a bit poo?


Yeah cool, but the market is dead. There aren't many other tablets other than iPad. Android tablets pretty much died. Windows tablets have always been rare. Nobody really gives a damn about tablets anymore, even if perhaps some industries use them. They are simply irrelevant.


I mean...:D
Microsoft Open Source | Microsoft Open Source
I remember people saying that GitHub is doomed when Microsoft bought them...the Tech world is still scarred by the Gates/Ballmer era, but I honestly feel like Microsoft has become softer. I mean a linux subsystem inside Windows?
And hardly anybody cares about linux in Windows.


Just to be clear, I'm merely explaining the reasoning as to why Microsoft hasn't just been selling a glorified Windows 2000 for decades, computers aren't just a nerd affair anymore, the world into which win 2000 was born and the world right now are quite different, so they had to adapt and cater to a mainstream audience...But I'm not saying that make a perfect job at it ( I still think that people are sometimes going overboard with the criticism, there's a lot of admin tools that I can't uninstall and that I have no use for, but I'm not mad about them ) The issue is that unlike macOS who's really focused on their target, windows is schizophrenic visually and functionally.
Well I disagree, world is only different is because MS said so. If they wanted, they could still sell roided Windows 2000 and be clear that if you are noob, you buy Mac and if you are serious commercial software user, then you use roided 2000. Still majority of Windows users are on desktops and laptops, they don't care about tablet stuff and if Microsoft want to compete with tablets, then they must remember that Windows will never be Android.


macOS was always meant to be mainstream, simple, and ready to use for most common task out of the box with their bundled software. That was always the pitch, and that was always why people bought macs.
Sorry mate, but I tried Mac OS. Simple and mainstream is exactly why you don't buy a Mac. You buy a Mac because it looks much nicer, gives you a feeling of luxury, it has a beautiful UI and you just want a nice computer that most of the time isn't used for productivity. And bundled software is barely any good, most of it is just good enough to boot up and barely do anything. And Apple sure did remove lots of useful software over time. Pretty much ever since Mac OS Mountain Lion, I can't help, but think that OS X got somewhat lame over time and right now it's the best OS for wankers and tech illiterate.


Windows background is different, it's complex, you had so much control over it that you could break it if you were careless or went too hard with the optimizer tools :D. It's the "default" OS because the computers are cheap, most programs and games are there, but windows itself isn't really "sexy". Alternative ISO, and tools always tried to make the base Windows better
And they never made it better, because Windows was already good.


Now Windows is trying to be like macOS, an OS that a mainstream user won't feel the need to enhance so much...some stuffs are good like the multi desktop, the clipboard history...but they are still oblivious to tabs in the explorer, being able to have a quick look at a file when pressing space, or colors and tags for folders, but are doing weird niche things like paint 3D, or how they don't implement video screen recording into the snapshot tool, but don't tell you that the xbox shortcut can record the whole screen, not just games, so you don't actually need OBS for that.

When people are saying that a version of windows was good, they just meant that it wasn't bugged, or offensive, and they were still installing add-ons to make the basic experience better. That's why I'm considering that the intent to add new functionalities isn't bad, but the windows team need to really focus on productivity tools first and entertainment later. Right now macOS looks like a more serious OS when it's supposed to be the funny one
And Windows 2000 as I idealized would have over time become nicer too, it's just 2000 was the least offensive, most robust and most clearly professional release that MS ever had. I don't miss Windows 2000, but I miss that same kind of robustness and professionalism. It's also the last Windows OS to be made pretty much solely for power users and it didn't try to hide certain parts of itself. It didn't feel like it was ashamed of itself. It was just bold and comfortable in its own skin.

Also, if MS wanted to make a good looking OS, they could have made 2000 into most visually stunning OS possible. Windows 11 is just a a bit naff and not really great for all. It tries to satisfy the audience that isn't here and it alienate the ones that have always been there.


I agree that they should have kept the beta testing, but people don't daily drive beta version, beta testing is good to see how people react to new things, find bugs, but it's not great to see how people use windows on a day-to-day basis for their main usages. And beta testers are still a small data set who tends to be tech savvy
I was writing about Microsoft not testing new released and updates properly inside and offloading that to noob that have no idea why their computer acts weird.


Why iPod Batteries Come Fully Charged: How Your Design Wins Customers (entrepreneurship.org)
View attachment 205500
Most of the stuff that I'm saying are coming from books that I've read about UX design

"If a lithium-ion battery is discharged below 2.5 volts per cell, a safety circuit built into the battery opens and the battery appears to be dead. The original charger will be of no use. Only battery analyzers with the boost function have a chance of recharging the battery."

"Unlike NiCad batteries, lithium-ion batteries do not have a charge memory. That means deep-discharge cycles are not required. In fact, it's better for the battery to use partial-discharge cycles."

Sorry mate, but it looks like a technical reason why lithium batteries don't come completely discharged. Perhaps people loved that too, but the reason to switch was purely technical.
 
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Sorry mate, but I tried Mac OS. Simple and mainstream is exactly why you don't buy a Mac. You buy a Mac because it looks much nicer, gives you a feeling of luxury, it has a beautiful UI and you just want a nice computer that most of the time isn't used for productivity. And bundled software is barely any good, most of it is just good enough to boot up and barely do anything. And Apple sure did remove lots of useful software over time. Pretty much ever since Mac OS Mountain Lion, I can't help, but think that OS X got somewhat lame over time and right now it's the best OS for wankers and tech illiterate.
In the creative industry macs are used a lot, In France the majority of design, communication, motion design, print, recording, sound design studio and services are on macs. Even public establishment like university (who are known to be cheap) are buying them for their art/communication/design classroom. The communication service of Le Havre Normandy University wasn't using windows at all.

You don't like mac osx and that's okay, my sister doesn't either. But there are still industries that would use macOS over windows. MacOS settings are simpler than the cluster F that Microsoft did with the new panel settings. (I meant mainstream in the sense that macOS doesn't cater to the hardcore user, but as you said yourself the "tech illiterate". What you see as a downside, is a quality for some)
Yeah cool, but the market is dead. There aren't many other tablets other than iPad. Android tablets pretty much died. Windows tablets have always been rare. Nobody really gives a damn about tablets anymore, even if perhaps some industries use them. They are simply irrelevant.
Yup, most android tablets died because they never managed to make the bigger real estate of the tablet useful once phones started to get bigger. Samsung and Apple are the only two who did, and they are the one who are dominating the market.
And hardly anybody cares about linux in Windows.

Well I disagree, world is only different is because MS said so. If they wanted, they could still sell roided Windows 2000 and be clear that if you are noob, you buy Mac and if you are serious commercial software user, then you use roided 2000. Still majority of Windows users are on desktops and laptops, they don't care about tablet stuff and if Microsoft want to compete with tablets, then they must remember that Windows will never be Android.

And Windows 2000 as I idealized would have over time become nicer too, it's just 2000 was the least offensive, most robust and most clearly professional release that MS ever had. I don't miss Windows 2000, but I miss that same kind of robustness and professionalism. It's also the last Windows OS to be made pretty much solely for power users and it didn't try to hide certain parts of itself. It didn't feel like it was ashamed of itself. It was just bold and comfortable in its own skin.

Also, if MS wanted to make a good looking OS, they could have made 2000 into most visually stunning OS possible. Windows 11 is just a a bit naff and not really great for all. It tries to satisfy the audience that isn't here and it alienate the ones that have always been there.
Well of course, the Linux subsystem, is for developers, I never said that it was a mainstream killer feature, but it's something that the old Microsoft wouldn't have done, they would have kept trying to crush any form of competition.
The world is different because tech illiterate, and Karen are required to have a computer. I don't know where you come from, but in France there's a lot of administrative tasks that are now 100% dematerialized and mandatory. But those people are also cheap, and want to spend the least amount of money on a computer... Apple doesn't do "cheap", so there's Windows. Every time that Microsoft is seeing someone who want them to adhere to the hardcore nerd ideology, what they are seeing is less money, so there's always going to be a conflict.

Although you could argue that Windows workstation and enterprise still having a tablet mode is a joke...I guess that win 10 is coded in a way where getting rid of some stuff could potentially compromise the system :confused: It's an odd decision because windows for workstation could have taken a place in the VFX industry where Linux is traditionally preferred for the cost, the customizability, and the sheer speed of the OS, but ho well. (Maya, substance painter, nuke, renderman are programs who are natively available on Linux, but windows could have enjoyed the edge of having access to the adobe suite, zbrush etc...)
1624707719836.png


"If a lithium-ion battery is discharged below 2.5 volts per cell, a safety circuit built into the battery opens and the battery appears to be dead. The original charger will be of no use. Only battery analyzers with the boost function have a chance of recharging the battery."

"Unlike NiCad batteries, lithium-ion batteries do not have a charge memory. That means deep-discharge cycles are not required. In fact, it's better for the battery to use partial-discharge cycles."

Sorry mate, but it looks like a technical reason why lithium batteries don't come completely discharged. Perhaps people loved that too, but the reason to switch was purely technical.
Well, my bad, looks like Tony Fadell is a liar. The guy literally said that it was a conscious decision made for the customer, and he's being quoted in UX/product design/innovation books because of that:mad:
Guess that you can't even trust what some engineers are saying nowadays.
1624711592312.png
 
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In the creative industry macs are used a lot, In France the majority of design, communication, motion design, print, recording, sound design studio and services are on macs. Even public establishment like university (who are known to be cheap) are buying them for their art/communication/design classroom. The communication service of Le Havre Normandy University wasn't using windows at all.
My university is Windows only and there is IT, arts, graphics design dept.


You don't like mac osx and that's okay, my sister doesn't either. But there are still industries that would use macOS over windows. MacOS settings are simpler than the cluster F that Microsoft did with the new panel settings. (I meant mainstream in the sense that macOS doesn't cater to the hardcore user, but as you said yourself the "tech illiterate". What you see as a downside, is a quality for some)
Don't get me wrong, Mac OS was once rally beautiful and great for casual usage, but once you actually need something done it's hell. Pages was an abomination. Safari back then was one tab only browser and poorly supported HTML 5 and obviously didn't have any adblocker at all. Mac shortcuts often don't make sense and some became infamous for being retarded like a shortcut for cut. Software support is still to this day horrendous. Mac OS lacks a lot of stuff that people need. I honestly couldn't even complete my university course with Mac due to lack of professional software for it. Eh, in the end besides good looks in the past, Mac OS remains very impractical all around OS. And when I would want to have some fun, well Steam on Mac is a joke.


Yup, most android tablets died because they never managed to make the bigger real estate of the tablet useful once phones started to get bigger. Samsung and Apple are the only two who did, and they are the one who are dominating the market.
I had original Galaxy Tab 10.1. It was OK and certainly utilized screen well. I remember Motorola Xoom was pretty good. There was Asus Transformer, a phone that could be turned into tablet. Cool concept, but it was shoddily made Asus garbage. Nexus line kinda died, but I don't miss them as they were trash. Nowadays Samsung almost doesn't have any tablets. At least in my country you could barely buy poverty spec Tab S2 a while ago. It seems like now there are several tablet, but it's clear that Android tablets are a thing of past and Apple won there. Really, if you haven't used a tablet, when they were booming, you won't understand why I'm saying this, but tablets are really not so good and practically dead concept. Almost nobody talks about them anymore.


Well of course, the Linux subsystem, is for developers, I never said that it was a mainstream killer feature, but it's something that the old Microsoft wouldn't have done, they would have kept trying to crush any form of competition.
I haven't really heard of it being popular in those circles.

The world is different because tech illiterate, and Karen are required to have a computer. I don't know where you come from, but in France there's a lot of administrative tasks that are now 100% dematerialized and mandatory. But those people are also cheap, and want to spend the least amount of money on a computer... Apple doesn't do "cheap", so there's Windows. Every time that Microsoft is seeing someone who want them to adhere to the hardcore nerd ideology, what they are seeing is less money, so there's always going to be a conflict.
Don't get me wrong, certain things where I live are also computerized, but you can also spends months and maybe whole year here without computer. And if you are in countryside, well, you wouldn't need a computer at all. There are many villages that don't have internet and some may not even have electricity.


Although you could argue that Windows workstation and enterprise still having a tablet mode is a joke...I guess that win 10 is coded in a way where getting rid of some stuff could potentially compromise the system :confused:
It's more likely that they are primary users of tablet features. You know those rugged, fat tablet made to withstand some harsh environments? I think that some enterprises rely on that. Also there's a design, drawing industry and for them tablet is just mandatory (although they also use wacoms). If you are into anime or manga, they are often drawn with tablets. I think that most tablet usage is exactly in enterprises, meanwhile for Karen with several offsprings, there isn't nearly as much value proposition with tablet. They are better served by laptop or hybrid, so that device can be used for anything and once little Karensies grow up, same device could be taken to college to play Fortnite, do some drugs, and when not passed out, occasionally go to lectures. Tablet alone wouldn't be as rugged, versatile and overall suitable as hybrid.


Well, my bad, looks like Tony Fadell is a liar. The guy literally said that it was a conscious decision made for the customer, and he's being quoted in UX/product design/innovation books because of that:mad:
Guess that you can't even trust what some engineers are saying nowadays.
View attachment 205516
Maybe that was partially true. Perhaps at time it was common for devices to have NiCd batteries instead of Li-ion or Li-Po. Maybe impression creation was the reason for switch, but as far as I know, lithium batteries probably were denser and could store more power in smaller size. But who knows, Apple loves to lie a lot, so it could be typical Apple bulshit.
 
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My university is Windows only and there is IT, arts, graphics design dept.



Don't get me wrong, Mac OS was once rally beautiful and great for casual usage, but once you actually need something done it's hell. Pages was an abomination. Safari back then was one tab only browser and poorly supported HTML 5 and obviously didn't have any adblocker at all. Mac shortcuts often don't make sense and some became infamous for being retarded like a shortcut for cut. Software support is still to this day horrendous. Mac OS lacks a lot of stuff that people need. I honestly couldn't even complete my university course with Mac due to lack of professional software for it. Eh, in the end besides good looks in the past, Mac OS remains very impractical all around OS. And when I would want to have some fun, well Steam on Mac is a joke.



I had original Galaxy Tab 10.1. It was OK and certainly utilized screen well. I remember Motorola Xoom was pretty good. There was Asus Transformer, a phone that could be turned into tablet. Cool concept, but it was shoddily made Asus garbage. Nexus line kinda died, but I don't miss them as they were trash. Nowadays Samsung almost doesn't have any tablets. At least in my country you could barely buy poverty spec Tab S2 a while ago. It seems like now there are several tablet, but it's clear that Android tablets are a thing of past and Apple won there. Really, if you haven't used a tablet, when they were booming, you won't understand why I'm saying this, but tablets are really not so good and practically dead concept. Almost nobody talks about them anymore.



I haven't really heard of it being popular in those circles.


Don't get me wrong, certain things where I live are also computerized, but you can also spends months and maybe whole year here without computer. And if you are in countryside, well, you wouldn't need a computer at all. There are many villages that don't have internet and some may not even have electricity.



It's more likely that they are primary users of tablet features. You know those rugged, fat tablet made to withstand some harsh environments? I think that some enterprises rely on that. Also there's a design, drawing industry and for them tablet is just mandatory (although they also use wacoms). If you are into anime or manga, they are often drawn with tablets. I think that most tablet usage is exactly in enterprises, meanwhile for Karen with several offsprings, there isn't nearly as much value proposition with tablet. They are better served by laptop or hybrid, so that device can be used for anything and once little Karensies grow up, same device could be taken to college to play Fortnite, do some drugs, and when not passed out, occasionally go to lectures. Tablet alone wouldn't be as rugged, versatile and overall suitable as hybrid.



Maybe that was partially true. Perhaps at time it was common for devices to have NiCd batteries instead of Li-ion or Li-Po. Maybe impression creation was the reason for switch, but as far as I know, lithium batteries probably were denser and could store more power in smaller size. But who knows, Apple loves to lie a lot, so it could be typical Apple bulshit.
Yhea, windows is perfectly serviceable for creative work, that might be a per country thing, but french art school/dept got a strong bias towards macs, I had a photography teacher telling us how macs are so much better...a lot of his argument where disputable, and outdated, like windows not having the codec required to see some raw files etc...

But every time that I had to use a mac for my internship I didn't have much to complain about, but most of what I do require the adobe suite and transferring images and videos (granted they were still using El Capitan, I don't think that I used the lasted versions)
I do know that macs were never popular in engineering fields due to lack of software support, but they tend to enjoy better support for design software (which also tends to become less and less true, Sketch is the only big name that I know of that made a Windows version, and there's the people who refuse to use something else beyond final cut and Logic Pro X)

Ahh fair enough, I forgot those rugged tablets, but for illustrators, there's a glaring issue, with the tablet mode : it doesn't work with multiscreen, and it's not uncommon to use a secondary screen to display references,
1624724091724.png


I have a kamvas 13, so I tried to use it, the tablet mode is manly showing a new start menu and rework multitasking a bit, IMHO it doesn't make up for the lack of multiscreen in graphic work... I have a hunch that this is exactly why they said that win11 new taskbar/start menu was made with touch device in mind, the current tablet mode feels so limited...it feels like that was the plan all along

1624725140088.png

Even the galaxy tab s7 can do it

https://www.reddit.com/r/GalaxyTab/comments/k45db4
To that I offer the following as argument:
View attachment 205526
Would you like to rethink your statement? Because this seems like more of the same cut-throat bullshit to me...
Softer to the competition, nowadays, you're only hearing of Microsoft pushing their agenda onto their customers, instead of how Microsoft is trying to crush the opposition with questionable practice, or ruin the legacy of a once legendary company. Nokia was the last victim that I can remember...
 
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