AMD Surpasses NVIDIA in Discrete Graphics Shipments

[Tatty_Two]

nvidia still has nothing in the mainstream market this really doesnt surprise me. We will see if it is even profitable for nvidia to go down into the mainstream market with fermi...if they can shrink those chips with the gf106/108 and get them in the mainstream market they will pull ahead next quarter.

gtx 460?

 

[theubersmurf]

Nvidia has nothing to go to war with currently.

You've forgotten the rabid fanboys.

 

[the54thvoid]

gtx 460?

Problem is the GTX 460 isn't that brilliant*. Yes it's a good part but performance per watt it's still lagging well behind the 5850 and is derived from a rather large die in comparison to cypress. It may well stop the massive tilt to ATI but that tilt has already happened.

I've seen 5870 prices in UK drop 10-15% (some more), likewise with 5850's but ATI haven't brought the 5850 down below the initial selling price yet. They'll know if and when the GTX 460 becomes a threat and if need be will lower prices further.

The problem all belongs to the 6 month Fermi delay. A miscalculated step that didnt work. It gave us the GF100 bastard son (meant to be a high performance computing part and to be derived for the gamer market).
The GTX460 is the only 'viable' deriviative to date but it still isn't what it was ever meant to be.

Next round i'm pretty sure will be more revealing but if ATI's next revision (not truly new gen) is out in October, Nv will have problems.

*To clarify, we've had a whole bunch of problematic cards from the GF100 line so this one that actually works quite well(based on a modified reduced polymorph engine and higher shaders?) just seems so much better - G80 it is not.

 

[Sihastru]

Problem is the GTX 460 isn't that brilliant. Yes it's a good part but performance per watt it's still lagging well behind the 5850 and is derived from a rather large die in comparison to cypress. It may well stop the massive tilt to ATI but that tilt has already happened.

The GTX460 is the only 'viable' deriviative to date but it still isn't what it was ever meant to be.

What are you smoking? Cypress is 338 mm2, GF104 is 320mm2. There are two versions based on GF104, the 1GB part and the 768MB part. They are both cheaper then the HD5850 and both of them are even cheaper then the HD5830. Performance wise, they both walk all over the 5830, while the 1GB part gives the 5850 a run for it's money, while being A LOT CHEAPER.

The results are for Q2. The GTX460 wasn't on the market long enough to really affect them. We'll see Q3 and Q4 (or H2 if you want).

 

[Argus]

What are you smoking? Cypress is 338 mm2, GF104 is 320mm2. There are two versions based on GF104, the 1GB part and the 768MB part. They are both cheaper then the HD5850 and both of them are even cheaper then the HD5830. Performance wise, they both walk all over the 5830, while the 1GB part gives the 5850 a run for it's money, while being A LOT CHEAPER.

The results are for Q2. The GTX460 wasn't on the market long enough to really affect them. We'll see Q3 and Q4 (or H2 if you want).

I don't know if this is accurate but they say

"AMD managed to cram 2.15 billion transistors into 334mm^2, about 6.44 million transistors per mm^2. GF104 has 1.95 billion transistors in 367mm^2, about 5.31 million transistors per mm^2. This means AMD's Evergreen architecture is over 20% more space efficient than GF104 while delivering much more raw performance and vastly more performance per watt."

 

[the54thvoid]

What are you smoking? Cypress is 338 mm2, GF104 is 320mm2. There are two versions based on GF104, the 1GB part and the 768MB part. They are both cheaper then the HD5850 and both of them are even cheaper then the HD5830. Performance wise, they both walk all over the 5830, while the 1GB part gives the 5850 a run for it's money, while being A LOT CHEAPER.

The results are for Q2. The GTX460 wasn't on the market long enough to really affect them. We'll see Q3 and Q4 (or H2 if you want).

Must be same thing you're smoking mate.

Where's the 320 figure come from? Admittedly my source can be rubbished for being from CD at S/A but if you're going to go off and call it BS before reading it, please dont argue. http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/07/21/gf104gtx460-has-huge-die/

And the 1GB parts are £20 cheaper and do not perform on par with 5850. The overclocked parts do and we also know the 5850 overclocks too.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GeForce_GTX_460_Cyclone_OC_768_MB/10.html
(I use crysis as ironically it's a TWIMTBP game).

Look, lets not all get sabre rattly. People with green shirts need to accept that NV screwed up with Fermi. If they had got it out on time and managed the power/heat issues, it'd all have been different -but they didnt, end of story. It's not a pissing contest - it's a sad fact.

New balls please.

 

[dir_d]

gtx 460?

GTX460 is not mainstream, Mainstream will be some gf106 all of gf108. Basically the sub 100 market is mainstream and thats where ATI sells the most they have no competition in that market.

 

[Zubasa]

Yes but in perspective, during a large proportion of that period, ATI had the only DX11 products coupled with the fact that they had saturated the mid/lower mid (where 90% of all sales are) with new innovated and efficient products so my point simply was/is, you would almost expect them to take 4 out of every 5 sales in any case acknowledging as you have pointed out a 12% shift but within the market conditions at the time and the lack of competition I am not too exited by that.

You got to account that the vast majority of buyers in the mainstream are ignorant people.
Even when ATi have the innovated and efficient products as you put it, it still takes sometime for that to bake in.
There are many people that swear by Physx and CUDA without knowing what these are good for, sadly. :shadedshu

 

[DrPepper]

You got to account that the vast majority of buyers in the mainstream are ignorant people.
Even when ATi have the innovated and efficient products as you put it, it still takes sometime for that to bake in.
There are many people that swear by Physx and CUDA without knowing what these are good for, sadly. :shadedshu

Indeed.

 

[hat]

Good news. I'd like to see how Nvidia responds to losing.

 

[Steevo]

ATI makes good chipsets now too, plus I am guessing Intel will be leveraging some tech from the graphics side shortly to make good on total platforms since ATI has nothing to do with Intel chipsets anymore.

 

[happita]

Next round i'm pretty sure will be more revealing but if ATI's next revision (not truly new gen) is out in October, Nv will have problems.

AMD's roadmap reveals that their next discrete graphics card is coming out in early 2011 if I'm not mistaken.

I wonder if they will focus more on raw power this time around or the same as they usually do with power consumption and energy efficiency.

 

[mdsx1950]

I hope this urges nVidia to release their dual GPU card sooooooooooon!

 

[Mr McC]

My take:

a) this news matters little to anybody who isn't a stockholder or an accountant.

b) the 460 seems like a very good card.

c) Nvidia should stop preventing us from using a discrete PhysX card along with an ATI card. They may stand to make money from future "budget" DX11 cards that could be used as PhysX cards, so easing up a little on the proprierary approach may be to everyone's advantage, so why not? Hopefully this news will encourage them to take a different approach, if not, well slap it into them, I hope the trend continues.

 

[WarEagleAU]

Nice to see some more good news for AMD/ATI. I think its because of their DX 11 and being down like they were (not a bad thing to be honest) in market share, this is a pretty significant growth. Of course, the next quarter will showcase even more, which is good. I would like to see how Nvidia's stuff affects their new growth as well as Apple products for AMD/ATI

 

[overclocking101]

soon as the lower GTX450/440 and the GTX490 come out we are all gonna be reading something like this but with nvidia on top. Fact of the matter is ati haas been out for quite some time now with the 58XX card and prices have barely dropped, nvidia has only had fermi out for 3/4 months patience.

 

[Sihastru]

Where's the 320 figure come from? Admittedly my source can be rubbished for being from CD at S/A but if you're going to go off and call it BS before reading it, please dont argue. http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/07/21/gf104gtx460-has-huge-die/

[...]

New balls please.

Yes, it might be that it is 366-367. 320 came from sources around the interweb, on lauch day nobody knew exactly, most said 320mm2. I will give you 367... fine... big whoop... Even if it comes from Charlie "nVidia is the Antichrist" Demerjian.

Yes, you can OC the HD5850, but you'll need to "overclock" the fan too, making it impossible to live with. This is not the case with the GTX460...

Interestingly you forgot to comment on my last remark:

The results are for Q2. The GTX460 wasn't on the market long enough to really affect them. We'll see Q3 and Q4 (or H2 if you want).

Is this a good enough ball for you?

 

[erocker]

soon as the lower GTX450/440 and the GTX490 come out we are all gonna be reading something like this but with nvidia on top. Fact of the matter is ati haas been out for quite some time now with the 58XX card and prices have barely dropped, nvidia has only had fermi out for 3/4 months patience.

A majority of these sales are coming from OEM's. It takes quite a while for OEM's to make a changeover and since many of them have gone to ATi, it's going to be some time before they switch to Nvidia. Plus, ATi has their next generation of cards ready to go in a couple months. Nvidia is still far behind.

 

[DrPepper]

soon as the lower GTX450/440 and the GTX490 come out we are all gonna be reading something like this but with nvidia on top. Fact of the matter is ati haas been out for quite some time now with the 58XX card and prices have barely dropped, nvidia has only had fermi out for 3/4 months patience.

Prices have barely dropped because of the lack of competition in those areas.

 

[the54thvoid]

Yes, it might be that it is 366-367. 320 came from sources around the interweb, on lauch day nobody knew exactly, most said 320mm2. I will give you 367... fine... big whoop... Even if it comes from Charlie "nVidia is the Antichrist" Demerjian.

Yes, you can OC the HD5850, but you'll need to "overclock" the fan too, making it impossible to live with. This is not the case with the GTX460...

Interestingly you forgot to comment on my last remark:



Is this a good enough ball for you?

lol, frankly no.

Shall we discuss the mac effect when ATI is used instead of NV?

I will say one thing.

NOBODY SHOULD WISH EITHER COMPANY TO FAIL. We've seen the opportunistic side of ATI when Fermi didnt appear and it kept prices artificially high - I dont like that. So it's in all out interests for NV to come good.
WE NEED COMPETITION.
My next card will be whatever is coolest and far better than my current set up without consuming much more power. I'll buy red or green...simples.

 

[theubersmurf]

My take:

a) this news matters little to anybody who isn't a stockholder or an accountant.

b) the 460 seems like a very good card.

c) Nvidia should stop preventing us from using a discrete PhysX card along with an ATI card. They may stand to make money from future "budget" DX11 cards that could be used as PhysX cards, so easing up a little on the proprierary approach may be to everyone's advantage, so why not? Hopefully this news will encourage them to take a different approach, if not, well slap it into them, I hope the trend continues.

I honestly think they should release a newer physx card. Somehow, I doubt they will however.

 

[EastCoasthandle]

When was the last time ATI took the lead in discrete and overal gpu market from nvidia? Going on memory it's been, what, 7 years?

 

[theeldest]

What are you smoking? Cypress is 338 mm2, GF104 is 320mm2. There are two versions based on GF104, the 1GB part and the 768MB part. They are both cheaper then the HD5850 and both of them are even cheaper then the HD5830. Performance wise, they both walk all over the 5830, while the 1GB part gives the 5850 a run for it's money, while being A LOT CHEAPER.

The results are for Q2. The GTX460 wasn't on the market long enough to really affect them. We'll see Q3 and Q4 (or H2 if you want).

The GTX 460 is undeniably on par with the 5850. Let's get this out of the way. And the size of Cypress vs GS104 is pretty darn close. So the GTX460 cost the same to make as a 5870.

ATI has stated that they're still supply limited, and as such, haven't dropped prices on the 5800 series. As soon as they are no longer supply limited (regardless if it's due to increased supply or decreased demand due to 460), they will drop the price and the 460 will no longer be such a good buy.

The GTX 460 is only such a good buy because nVidia knew they needed to compete on price. nVidia is not making as much on the 460 as ATI is on the 5800 series.



But Regardless. This is good for us. If ATI makes lots of money, then AMD has resources for more R&D making better processors (because we know we need more competition in CPUs).

If ATI decides they don't need as much money then we've got a price war on our hands in the GPU space.

nVidia has finally stepped up to the plate with the GF104. I don't think it'll be a home run, but we'll at least see them start loading the bases.

 

[the54thvoid]

The GTX 460 is undeniably on par with the 5850. Let's get this out of the way.

Denied

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GeForce_GTX_460_Cyclone_OC_768_MB/31.html

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=25391&page=13

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3809/nvidias-geforce-gtx-460-the-200-king/19

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-460-gf104-fermi,2684-14.html

There are other sites that match it but the conditions are pretty solid: an overclocked 1GB model will match in many games the performance of a stock clocked HD5850. A cheap 1GB GTX460 is £187 in UK, the cheapest HD 5850 is £211. A good overclock on a HD5850 can perform close to 5870, out of touch of the 460.

But here's the money shot, if back in Nov 09, these cards were out at the same price point as now I'd have probably bought 2 x GTX 460's (overclocked and 1GB) instead of my HD 5850's. But they weren't and a 5970 still beats GTX460 sli'd (read reviews) - and 2 x 5850 = 5970.

Nuff said.

 

[crow1001]

Stock 460 is not on par with a stock 5850, far from it.