bitcoin down to $14000.."healthy correction" ..

[flmatter]

I took @cdawall advice and started mining ETN. It is early and was just released so it is cheap and easy. Mine and forget it, as long as I don't format that hard drive with the wallet anytime in the future.... ETH is looking good too. Cryptokitties is what I think when I see or hear ETH.

 

[trog100]

i think this article about sums things up accurately..

http://www.newsbtc.com/2017/12/22/recent-bitcoin-price-drop-long-overdue-will-recover/

trog

 

[fullinfusion]

...and the bubble bursts.

or maybe Christmas has something to do with it? it's anybody's guess right now. I see everything is in the red today

 

[cdawall]

I took @cdawall advice and started mining ETN. It is early and was just released so it is cheap and easy. Mine and forget it, as long as I don't format that hard drive with the wallet anytime in the future.... ETH is looking good too. Cryptokitties is what I think when I see or hear ETH.

I have been doing TZC as well since most of my rigs are nvidia. It is a lot more NV friendly.

or maybe Christmas has something to do with it? it's anybody's guess right now. I see everything is in the red today

Not everything. Just the big names, most of the smaller alt coins are pushing 30-40-80% up right now on the trend. Now would be a good time for anyone holding weird alt coins to convert them over to eth/LTC/BTC/BTG to make some money on the rebound.

 

[qubit]

or maybe Christmas has something to do with it? it's anybody's guess right now. I see everything is in the red today

Yeah, maybe. That financial expert I linked to did say it's a matter of when, not if, so seeing something like this does suggest that it might be happening now. We'll know for sure soon enough, lol.

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

Yeah, maybe. That financial expert I linked to did say it's a matter of when, not if, so seeing something like this does suggest that it might be happening now. We'll know for sure soon enough, lol.

Every dollar spent on Crypto is a dollar not spent on traditional stocks...and every dollar not spent on traditional stocks is less commission for finance people. Consider that Crypto as a whole has a market cap of $600B that is $600B not being put into traditional stocks...The Government, Banks, and Wall Street all want it to fail and will say just about anything to undermine it.

 

[trog100]

Every dollar spent on Crypto is a dollar not spent on traditional stocks...and every dollar not spent on traditional stocks is less commission for finance people. Consider that Crypto as a whole has a market cap of $600B that is $600B not being put into traditional stocks...The Government, Banks, and Wall Street all want it to fail and will say just about anything to undermine it.

some of it would have gone into PMs they dont like those ether.. but you are correct about the banks and government being a tad biased as regards what they say..

trog

over the last six hours the (the bottom) %50 of the losses have been recovered.. the uptrend could reverse but i doubt it.. come tomorrow things will be back where they were yesterday..

some big daddy btc hodler from the early days could engineer this sh-t.. dump enough coin on the market and panic sell sets in..


trog

 

[Space Lynx]

the price actually went down to 11k not 14k today. "14 hours ago - Coinbase said at 11:11 a.m. ET that "all buys and sells have been temporarily disabled," but the issue was resolved as of 1:44 p.m., according to the company's status website. The interruption in service comes as bitcoin briefly tumbled below $11,000, down 44 percent from its record high hit Sunday."

but coinbase halted all sells how anyone can be a part of a currency that allows exchanges to do this to their money blows my mind.

 

[flmatter]

how anyone can be a part of a currency that allows exchanges to do this to their money blows my mind

the stock markets do it all the time, they have sell stops that limit losses or protect profits. So in essence every country that is part of the stock market blows your mind.

 

[notb]

Every dollar spent on Crypto is a dollar not spent on traditional stocks...and every dollar not spent on traditional stocks is less commission for finance people. Consider that Crypto as a whole has a market cap of $600B that is $600B not being put into traditional stocks...The Government, Banks, and Wall Street all want it to fail and will say just about anything to undermine it.

Actually it's not that simple. Cryptos are not state currencies. They were not "printed" by central banks.
The $600B you're talking about is not coming from money not put in stocks, i.e. it's not taken from the normal money supply (which is limited). It was mined. It's a product that someone might buy or not.

Don't worry about banks and the financial markets - they aren't as worried as you might think. They're actually rather excited about how much blockchain can give them.
The governments, however, are worried. They are worried, because they know, that someone will have to clean this mess when everything falls. It is their role to prevent it, because people would expect them to fix it afterwards.

And if you struggle to agree with the last part, just look at latest problem we've discussed here: Nicehash. It's a quasi-market operating outside of financial boundaries and regulations. And as long as it's OK, crypto fans love the freedom and think the state should stay out of it.
But when there is a hack and a lot of money vanishes, suddenly the same people expect an investigation.

All these haters. LOL. It's down 30% for the DAY but only up you know like 1400% for the year.

Are you aware how percents work?

 

[flmatter]

Are you aware how percents work?

really?
@ZenZimZaliben has a valid point. 30% vs a 1400% increase is moot point. I will glady take a 30% hit on anything that earns 1400% value. a dollar $1.00 takes a 30% hit is worth 0.70....... now if that dollar earned a 1400% over the last year I would gladly take that 30% hit and still make $1000.

 

[trog100]

who are these people that expect government to fix things notb.. i for sure aint one of them.. he he he..

i wont comment on "normal" money being limited ether..

crypto is back on its way up to wherever its gonna go after what i at least consider a healthy reset which gives folks an idea of its bottom and trading range..

it will be interesting to see what happens to the over inflated stock market when it gets its next little test.. which is bound to come.. sometime.. he he

i have read that as little as a %5 sell off would will cause such a rush for the door and panic sell off that the lot comes crashing down..

currently its all being kept alive by copious supplies of that "limited" money you mentioned..

i would be interested to find out just what triggered the recent crypto sell off.. something did but nobody seems to know what.. i dont think these things happen by accident..

trog

 

[notb]

really?
@ZenZimZaliben has a valid point. 30% vs a 1400% increase is moot point. I will glady take a 30% hit on anything that earns 1400% value. a dollar $1.00 takes a 30% hit is worth 0.70....... now if that dollar earned a 1400% over the last year I would gladly take that 30% hit and still make $1000.

So there are more people with some understanding issues... Not just percents but also behaviour and financial markets.
And I'm so not surprised that you're all supporting investing in crypto.

So the big question is: HOW MANY people bought cryptos or mining gear a year ago, with no further investments during the year. And by comparison: how many bought it last month?
Because the basic rule of bubbles is: people always invest the most just before the burst. Or in more mathematical terms: there is a very strong correlation between how much people invest and a derivative of the price, not the price itself.

Have you EVER seen a chart like this one? Do you understand the values shown?

Source: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/ethereum/

 

[Space Lynx]

the stock markets do it all the time, they have sell stops that limit losses or protect profits. So in essence every country that is part of the stock market blows your mind.

Good thing most of my money is in pure gold and silver coins then.

 

[notb]

who are these people that expect government to fix things notb.. i for sure aint one of them.. he he he..

Did you read anything about the nicehash hack? Even on this forum you'll find examples of what I've described. And places like reddit are just full of them.

i wont comment on "normal" money being limited ether..

It's a fact, not an opinion or a theory. No point to discuss this. No offense, but you should just learn a bit about a topic, if you want to understand what's happening...
Or you may not, live with your suspicions and be surprised often. Your choice.

crypto is back on its way up to wherever its gonna go after what i at least consider a healthy reset which gives folks an idea of its bottom and trading range..

"Trading ranges" in normal currencies come from either the actual value (so something related to actual relations between the 2 countries involved) or from government interference - because e.g. they don't want the currency value to be too high or too low.

There is no trading range for cryptos.

it will be interesting to see what happens to the over inflated stock market when it gets its next little test.. which is bound to come.. sometime.. he he

It will drop, obviously. But there is at least some proper value behind the stock. The stock itself of course IS over- or undervalued - this is exactly what stock speculators look for.
With cryptos you don't have this benchmark. We don't know how much a crypto should be worth. It's all made up.
With Bitcoin it *was* believed that it should be valued according to what it is: a payment system. You know: instead of paying with cash, card or transfer, you pay with a crypto. You might save money, the bank might save money and the seller might save money. All these savings combined would equal what a BTC is actually worth.
But after a few months of observation this theory collapsed. BTC is not reacting to some important events: like when Steam stopped accepting it or the latest China ban.

i would be interested to find out just what triggered the recent crypto sell off.. something did but nobody seems to know what.. i dont think these things happen by accident..

If you want to know why things like this happen, you must know how instruments work. So once again I strongly suggest some learning: about both crypto and currencies, since the pricing involves both.

 

[trog100]

he he he..

you are a technically clever guy notb no question of that but you are here to troll crypto and no other reason.. unless you just like the argument..

you are pretty good.. to good for me.. i will bow to your technical knowledge of how instruments work..

trog

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

It will drop, obviously. But there is at least some proper value behind the stock. The stock itself of course IS over- or undervalued - this is exactly what stock speculators look for.
With cryptos you don't have this benchmark. We don't know how much a crypto should be worth. It's all made up.

All Fiat Currency is based on perception just like crypto.

Nearly all tech stocks and many others are based off perception. Do you really think Facebook is worth the perceived value? Twitter? What hard assets do they truely have to justify the price?

One more thing could you try just turn down the condescending knob a little. Maybe educate us with you vast knowledge of finance and explain how adding USD to crypto isn't taking away USD that I would normally invest in the stock market or put in a bank?

 

[Jetster]

Currency is based off a promise and is insured on most cases. It's value is also controlled by the government. Print more and the value drops. Crypto is like a single stock with very little track record. It's worth what someone will pay. People start selling and it's value will drop.

 

[eidairaman1]

US currency is technically monopoly money at the rate it's issued. What backs it is the fear of economic collapse by the rest of the world as they rely on lovely consumerism that we're really good at. And it helps to have enough firepower in a single carrier fleet to level a small country.

Yup, we need to go back to being producers/manufacturers.

 

[cdawall]

Currency is based off a promise and is insured on most cases. It's value is also controlled by the government. Print more and the value drops. Crypto is like a single stock with very little track record. It's worth what someone will pay. People start selling and it's value will drop.

Insured by what? A bank in essence that printed the money and can do nothing more than print more sheets of iou's?

 

[notb]

Insured by what? A bank in essence that printed the money and can do nothing more than print more sheets of iou's?

I don't know what @Jetster meant, but it might have been deposit insurance. In US this is done by FDIC, who covers deposits up to $250k.

All Fiat Currency is based on perception just like crypto.

By all means, no. Fiat currencies have a very well defined intrinsic value. And it's fairly easy to analyze as well. The base is always the state of economy and the interest rates - they define how much you can earn by holding that currency. Then you have banks (mostly central, occasionally commercial) that try to keep the price in some range. Above that there is some known correlation with stocks and commodities.
So having some data makes it possible to understand the historical price and - with decent precision - forecast the future development.

With Bitcoin... you don't know much. Not only is it extremely hard to forecast (apart from the fact that in long horizon it'll either totally collapse or grow further), but we also struggle to understand the past as well. Like the 30-50% drop we had yesterday - there is still no consensus on why it happened.

Nearly all tech stocks and many others are based off perception. Do you really think Facebook is worth the perceived value? Twitter? What hard assets do they truely have to justify the price?

Companies are not evaluated based on assets, but based on cashflows.
As for Twitter - I don't know. I've never analyzed their stock, I don't know much about the company, I don't tweet, I don't read tweets. As Buffet once said: "Never invest in a business you can't understand". I live by this rule (and few other of his as well).
As for Facebook - current price is in line with their financial situation. Moreover, it's been growing beautifully for the last 5 years. The only issue I have with them is the lack of dividend - the reason why I haven't invested yet. But they're a young company, so this is understandable. Many IT-companies start paying after as much as 20-30 years.

Maybe educate us with you vast knowledge of finance and explain how adding USD to crypto isn't taking away USD that I would normally invest in the stock market or put in a bank?

This is feasible.
To understand this, you only have to answer one simple question.
Before cryptocurrencies became such a hit, there was a money supply of USD worth X. In other words, we had X US dollars to use (some of it printed, some only virtual).
A new thing appears in the world called cryptocurrencies - they're worth $600 billion.
What is the total sum of USD afterwards?

 

[cdawall]

I don't know what @Jetster meant, but it might have been deposit insurance. In US this is done by FDIC, who covers deposits up to $250k.

Ain't going to help when the toilet paper backed by America's hopes and dreams money is worth nothing

 

[bogmali]

Thread cleansed. Political comment/s do not belong in here-some of you should know better by now

 

[notb]

Ain't going to help when the toilet paper backed by America's hopes and dreams money is worth nothing

We are not talking about a collapse of USD. We are talking about money being insured. The insurance means that you're protected against things like hacks, theft or bank default.
USA is the most important economy in the world right now and - based on all the global companies that operate from there - one of the most correlated with general civilization development.
If situation becomes so bad that US Dollar is "worth nothing", it would mean that we all have bigger problems than value of some painted pieces of paper.
And yes, I mean things like the scenario from Fallout. So if you don't believe in US future, so also the future of today's humanity, use whatever toiler paper USD you have and just buy bottle caps.

 

[TheMailMan78]

love him or hate him @notb has schooled all y'all with way more patients than I've had for this community in years. Keep it up notb. I enjoy reading your posts and miners trying to argue.