Can someone help me find how plastic is made? From the source to the end product?

[Shrek]

Abiogenic petroleum origin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Theories explaining the origin of petroleum as abiotic are generally not well accepted by the scientific community, and are rejected by most researchers and scientific theories on the subject."

 

[Assimilator]

Yes, it's called "Google".

 

[lexluthermiester]

"Theories explaining the origin of petroleum as abiotic are generally not well accepted by the scientific community, and are rejected by most researchers and scientific theories on the subject."

Interesting choice of quote. My response is as follows:

If oil is a "fossil fuel" how does it get so deep underground in the lower crust and lithosphere, a layer well below the crust? Most of the deposits are in the layers of the crust where life has never existed at any point during Earth's history. So how did it all get down there? Coal is easily explained, it's not very deep, but oil is magnitudes of distance deeper. It didn't seep it's way down there only to be put under immense pressures. No, the only plausible explanation is that oil is a product of the Earth itself. Oil and the natural gas deposits that are found together are not a result of a fossilization process.

EDIT:
For example, the Bertha Rodgers Oil well in Oklahoma is 30,000+ feet deep just to reach the top of the field. No life has ever existed at that layer of the crust. It's a BIG oil field. Oil deposits like that are fairly common. So unless someone can logically explain how fossilization got down to a layer where life has never and could never exist, we have to accept that oils and petroleum like materials are made by the Earth as a result of magma-carbon deposit reactions.

Yes, it's called "Google".

If it were something easy, I'd agree with you. To be fair, this is not an easy subject to Google. You have to be versed in the subject and know what to look for to find relevant information.

 

[R-T-B]

Yes, it's called "Google".

But google tells me the earth is flat and the covid is caused by 5g jewish space lasers...

 

[Steevo]

So whoever makes these plastic making machines controls the world? jk lol but yes at least finally some pics... hmm interesting.



I'd still like to see the coal/oil processing part, like that really interests me its so hard to find pictures of it, I guess I just find it difficult imagining in my mindseye coal/oil becoming this little ziploc bag my sandwich sits in, lol its so weird to think about



I wonder if our grandkids will never know what a 12oz aluminum can is... we might live in a golden age of convenience and not even know it... lol

lookup fractional distillation of crude oil to see the general process of how they get the raw materials.
You seem to think this is a one factory operation to make plastics from oil when it’s really a collaborative effort by about 10 different locations.

US oil is drilled, pumped, transported by rail or truck since goddamn hippies don’t understand that pipelines are far better.

Refineries pump the crude through some basic separation then the acceptable parts go into a huge column where they are steam and pressure distilled into their fractional components, those are pumped back onto rail cars and sent to a plastics company.

The plastics company receives raw products from their suppliers, like the refinery, catalysts from other companies, and as stated before mix the refined petroleum base with additives in a catalyst chamber that then extrudes the plastic base product, they might mix in colors, UV stabilizers and then they too package and ship the product to a end use manufacturer.

Look at each step, and then also realize the huge role transporting everything has and the lack of it that would quickly stop the whole process

 

[silentbogo]

Those granules you've seen may be from the raw manufacturing as well. Looks the same.
I grew up in a "bermuda triangle" of the soviet chemical manufacturing. Most plants in and near my hometown are defunct nowadays, though....

It's weird, but the only decently detailed thing I could find, is a very-very old educational video from USSR on polyethylene manufacturing. It's in russian, but you'll get the basics (similar for most plastics, and it hasn't changed that much except computers and precise control).

 

[Steevo]

Interesting choice of quote. My response is as follows:

If oil is a "fossil fuel" how does it get so deep underground in the lower crust and lithosphere, a layer well below the crust? Most of the deposits are in the layers of the crust where life has never existed at any point during Earth's history. So how did it all get down there? Coal is easily explained, it's not very deep, but oil is magnitudes of distance deeper. It didn't seep it's way down there only to be put under immense pressures. No, the only plausible explanation is that oil is a product of the Earth itself. Oil and the natural gas deposits that are found together are not a result of a fossilization process.

For example, the Bertha Roders Oil well in Oklahoma is 30,000 feet deep. No life has ever existed at that layer of the crust. It's a BIG oil field. Oil deposits are like that are fairly common. So unless someone can logically explain how fossilization got down to a layer where life has never and could never exist, we have to accept that oils and petroleum like materials are made by the Earth as a result of magma-carbon deposit reactions.

Don't forget our planet is now much cooler than it once was, far less violent with the crust that we know, and remember the ocean is very deep.

Kerogen - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Most of our oil and natural gas is from far before coal deposits were made. The coal is tropical forests in the hills of Montana under 200 ft of soil and rock left by changes to the oceans and land as the earths rotation and land masses moved many times as just one example. The peat in northern europe would become coal eventually if we left it alone for a few thousand or hundred thousand years.

Our average earth crust heave per year is 7cm on the vertical and updates to the GPS math form most navigation has been updated since Australia can't sit still and is instead drifting https://theconversation.com/austral...-up-with-a-continent-in-constant-motion-71883

 

[lexluthermiester]

US oil is drilled, pumped, transported by rail or truck since goddamn hippies don’t understand that pipelines are far better.

Pipelines have serious problems of their own. Transporting by train and truck is actually the safer and more eco-friendly method.

 

[R-T-B]

Abiogenic petroleum origin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

My chief thing I note right away:

Theories explaining the origin of petroleum as abiotic are generally not well accepted by the scientific community, and are rejected by most researchers and scientific theories on the subject.[1]

 

[Steevo]

Pipelines have serious problems of their own. Transporting by train and truck is actually the safer and more eco-friendly method.

Which Is Safer For Transporting Crude Oil: Rail, Truck, Pipeline Or Boat?

News of increased crude oil transportation by rail from Canada has raised this question again. The short answer is: truck worse than train worse than pipeline worse than boat. But it depends on your definition of worse - human deaths, property destruction or environmental impact. You choose.

www.forbes.com

Pipelines are safer as far as human life and CO2 emissions go once they are operational, and the mistakes can be engineered out of them, whereas you can't stop idiots from pulling in front of trains, bearings locking up in extreme cold, rails distorting from the same extreme temperatures. The amount of extra stress transporting oil by rail has put on other industries (ag grain shipments for example) and cost increases, the manufacturing of the rail cars has never been taken into account, none of the studies I have seen take into account eh heating of the rail cars to get them to flow.

A specific pipeline was shut down as some peole were scared of it like they are scared of nuclear but have no issue drinking themselves to death (I live near a few reservations, my wife grew up on one) and because the owner of a rail company paid the presidents party.

OpenSecrets

www.opensecrets.org

 

[R-T-B]

If oil is a "fossil fuel" how does it get so deep underground in the lower crust and lithosphere, a layer well below the crust?

A metric buttton of time is the generally accepted means. The whole layer generally mineralized.

but have no issue drinking themselves to death

If you think native Americans aren't keenly aware of the havoc alcohol has caused their people due to a genetic tendency towards alcoholism, you are very mistaken.

 

[lexluthermiester]

My chief thing I note right away:

Seriously? Are you trolling or did you miss a few things? Andy already pointed that out AND I responded...

A metric buttton of time is the generally accepted means. The whole layer generally mineralized.

Again, review the above response.

 

[Space Lynx]

Pipelines have serious problems of their own. Transporting by train and truck is actually the safer and more eco-friendly method.

i know it will never happen here, but lets hypothetically say we were starting from a clean slate in a new country, no roads exist, nothing but one major port city - i would honestly try to build a single integrated hyperloop system for the entire country, and when that was done, upgrade the port city as well, no roads, no trains, etc:

plastic is actually a key reason why, as plastic encompasses all of the hyperloop, meaning maintenance from wind/erosion/rust... massive increase in longevity of the magnets and mechanical parts, etc.

 

[silentbogo]

i know it will never happen here, but lets hypothetically say we were starting from a clean slate

The reason it's not gonna work is not because of "big oil" or existing infrastructure, or yet another global conspiracy. It's a simple matter of cost, efficiency, maintenance, and ease of operation.
This horse has been beaten to death a million times by transportation enthusiasts, experts and "experts". You can't have a public transportation inside a tube that has to be pressurized and de-pressurized on every stop. And you can't have public transportation that only works in express-mode(that's what we have planes for).
Sorry for sarcasm and OT, but only in America you guys think of new and revolutionary ways to improve public transportation, when your existing systems are barely used and at all-time low.
I spent some time stateside(many-many moons ago), and I remember 'till this day how I took my first bus ride... I was going to work and at the time I had no ride and my bicycle was broken. Walking takes about 40mins, but I figured - whattahell, let's try that yankee bus for a change. Looked up schedule on the internet. A bus goes nearby once an hour, the next one is in 20 min. Gotta take 2 transfers on the way with a huge detour on the final stage. According to website it should take around 50min, so just a tad over an hour to get from point A to point B. It was slower than walking, but I took a chance since I still had enough time and really didn't feel like walking...
So, 2 hours later I finally made it to work, because the first bus was 15 minutes late, and I missed both of my transfers.
One of my co-workers used to take a bus to lightrail to another bus every day... Which was even worse... She used to get up at 5AM in order to make it to work by 8:30-ish.

So called Hyperloop is a novelty toy. It's only feasible as a small-scale publicity project, kinda like that AirTrain at JFK, only less useful.

 

[R-T-B]

Seriously? Are you trolling or did you miss a few things? Andy already pointed that out AND I responded...

I missed a page, yes.

 

[Steevo]

A metric buttton of time is the generally accepted means. The whole layer generally mineralized.


If you think native Americans aren't keenly aware of the havoc alcohol has caused their people due to a genetic tendency towards alcoholism, you are very mistaken.

I’m aware some of them are taking steps, but considering I employ 30 of them and am friends with many more…. A good many have problems that is rooted in their culture, the ones who don’t have the issues are treated poorly and called “white” as an insult.

I’m very aware of the alcohol and drug issues on the reservation.

 

[R-T-B]

I’m aware some of them are taking steps, but considering I employ 30 of them and am friends with many more…. A good many have problems that is rooted in their culture, the ones who don’t have the issues are treated poorly and called “white” as an insult.

Even the ones who are addicted are aware the alcohol is bad, was my point.

I’m very aware of the alcohol and drug issues on the reservation.

As am I. Pretty sure not the same reservation though, YMMV to a degree.

 

[bug]

Interesting choice of quote. My response is as follows:

If oil is a "fossil fuel" how does it get so deep underground in the lower crust and lithosphere, a layer well below the crust? Most of the deposits are in the layers of the crust where life has never existed at any point during Earth's history. So how did it all get down there? Coal is easily explained, it's not very deep, but oil is magnitudes of distance deeper. It didn't seep it's way down there only to be put under immense pressures. No, the only plausible explanation is that oil is a product of the Earth itself. Oil and the natural gas deposits that are found together are not a result of a fossilization process.

EDIT:
For example, the Bertha Rodgers Oil well in Oklahoma is 30,000+ feet deep just to reach the top of the field. No life has ever existed at that layer of the crust. It's a BIG oil field. Oil deposits like that are fairly common. So unless someone can logically explain how fossilization got down to a layer where life has never and could never exist, we have to accept that oils and petroleum like materials are made by the Earth as a result of magma-carbon deposit reactions.


If it were something easy, I'd agree with you. To be fair, this is not an easy subject to Google. You have to be versed in the subject and know what to look for to find relevant information.

Actually, I believe that's quite easy to explain seeing how the tectonic plates are constantly going one under another.

 

[R-T-B]

Actually, I believe that's quite easy to explain seeing how the tectonic plates are constantly going one under another.

Subduction is a helluva force.

 

[kapone32]

Abiogenic petroleum origin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So I guess Mars and Venus are awash with Oceans of oil then?

 

[Steevo]

Even the ones who are addicted are aware the alcohol is bad, was my point.

Some are, some have almost a frat boy attitude towards it. A small town close by has a regular bunch of drunks passed out by a park most are too afraid to use due to their continued presence. A friend had quads, a truck and guns stolen and was almost killed following them waiting for police to show up, since it was on the res he got back a wrecked truck and was told not to pursue it or they might come back and burn down his house with his family inside. It’s happened before and will continue to happen.

I had to fire a few people for showing up drunk or hungover. I encouraged them to get clean.

So I guess Mars and Venus are awash with Oceans of oil then?

Methane which given the right temp and pressure could become longer chain hydrocarbons.

 

[kapone32]

Methane which given the right temp and pressure could become longer chain hydrocarbons.

So Titan is the goal then?

 

[R-T-B]

Methane which given the right temp and pressure could become longer chain hydrocarbons.

If you buy into this at all which I frankly don't.

I'm not even entirely sure non atmospheric large bodies of methanes exist on those bodies. There's been circumstantial evidence for the presence of small amounts of ground level methane on Mars, but thats really it.

I could be wrong of course. That is why science is great.

 

[Space Lynx]

If you buy into this at all which I frankly don't.

I'm not even entirely sure non atmospheric large bodies of methanes exist on those bodies. There's been circumstantial evidence for the presence of small amounts of ground level methane on Mars, but thats really it.

I could be wrong of course. That is why science is great.

It does seem logical that Mars might have oil, its very clear it used to have rivers, etc. So it is possible hundreds of millions of years it did have life, and there is a lot of oil buried very deep... I don't know.

If we could access oil and water on Mars and live in domes, I suppose it would be possible to be a two planet species.

I still say Elon has the wrong of it though, well maybe he doesn't, he is advancing his robots fast... cause it makes more sense to send robots to do work even if they are remote controlled...

 

[R-T-B]

If we could access oil and water on Mars and live in domes, I suppose it would be possible to be a two planet species.

Certainly possible, but one colony could not survive without the other. Mars would very much depend on earth.