CSGO stuttering every 5 seconds mystery (ex. 5800x3d stutter topic)

[tonypivo]

One match on ashika on my pc (capped at 165hz)

 

[3x0]

Ooof, that 180ms spike. Your 40+ms frames are almost perfectly spaced out, just as with CSGO. Strange that I don't see any of that weirdness, just regular game stutter.

 

[GertFX]

Have you updated to the latest BIOS?

After you update BIOS, all settings are back to default. All profiles are wiped.

Then in bios:
load optimized defaults
set spread spectrum to disabled
BCLK to 100.00 mhz
enable above 4G decoding
enable XMP
save the settings

In windows install latest AMD chipset drivers. Look at the install log are they actually installed?

this is a very useful tool to get windows debloated.

this will probably not solve your problems, but you need to get a baseline to start from.

 

[tonypivo]

View attachment 285169

Have you updated to the latest BIOS?

After you update BIOS, all settings are back to default. All profiles are wiped.

Then in bios:
load optimized defaults
set spread spectrum to disabled
BCLK to 100.00 mhz
enable above 4G decoding
enable XMP
save the settings

ahh I had so much hope on this F16b bios, given the fact that is says "Optimized performance for 5800x3d" BUT after update, my cs still has the same old stutters

 

[3x0]

Here's an entire match on Ashika Island, apart from a few spikes to 30-ish miliseconds, I see no stutters. The only way to figure the problem out is with concrete evidence, so download CapFrameX and post your data for comparison.
View attachment 285161

A friend with a 12400 and 6700XT also did a similar capture, pretty much the same results, some spikes but nothing serious.

 

[Huubsterr]

Hi all, thanks for all your input. Here a few responses on things which helped me finding out what the issue was, this may help others. Spoiler alert, my problem is fixed now, no 'stuttering' anymore!

Did you clean install Windows after upgrading? I had widespread stuttering across all games including MW19 when I upgraded from 5900X to 5800X3D. No other performance issues showed up anywhere in benchmark scores or behaviour. Logic dictates that it should not be necessary, but the difference was plain as day.

The fTPM problem is more "lag" than stuttering, impossible to mistake one for the other.

I already saw your video, sharp to make the distinction between 'lag' and stuttering. Your problem is not what I'm suffering from. My issue feels like I miss certain frames, it skips a few and goes on where it supposed to be. But it feels like a 'stutter'. And that's indeed something else then lag!

I did not do a fu't ll re-install of Windows. I actually didndo much initially, just dropped the 5800x3d in replacing the 5800x, re-installed the chipset drivers and that was it. Later on I added the TPM hardware module in the hope that would fix it, but it didn't.

Before I went on problem solving I played a few more games but noticed that it was mostly MW DMZ 2.0 where I was suffering the issue. Other racing games I mostly play didn't suffer any lag at all. I also experienced the same kind of stutter in Insurgency Sandstorm. But after seeing the FPS spiking way above my 165hz gsync monitor specs, I turned Vsync on ingame and that removed the stutter.

What I also noticed in the overall experience is that the smoothness of the gameplay was a little less then I was used to with the 5800x. So I was not very impressed up until now. But that will change....

I don't recall seeing any mentions of checking power connections and whether there's a riser involved in the build or not.
I've had a Vega 64 act really weird (regular, momentary, 'performance crash'/stutter), when it was on a long riser w/ it's own separate PSU. I assumed there was a 'ground loop / ground-plane disparity' issue or the external PSU couldn't handle the rapid changes is current-load and/or transients. (we need some PSU info, nV's high end 30xx and 40xx cards are infamous for their milisecond-scale extreme current draw)
BTW, The Vega went back to normal performance when inserted into my X570's Chipset-conn. x4 slot. While not ideal, have you tried a different slot? -for troubleshooting's sake.

I've also had similar issues caused by bad power extensions, and poorly-seated power connectors. [You'd be surprised how much a little bit of extra impedance/resistance can affect a power-hungry GPU.]




I adore finding those 'esoteric' "proposed solutions". More than a few times, many years after such is posted, those 'oddball' suggestions have been helpful in fixing things.

Good advice, checked all connections, especially the famous 12v power connector of the 4080, because I had to remove it when placing the TPM Module. But all was ok.

Here's an entire match on Ashika Island, apart from a few spikes to 30-ish miliseconds, I see no stutters. The only way to figure the problem out is with concrete evidence, so download CapFrameX and post your data for comparison.
View attachment 285161

Interesting software 3xO, never tried it, but out of curiousity I'll do a round of MW 2.0 and post it here later.

In the meantime I read somebody saying that I should check my Afterburner chart to check the frequency response of the 5800x3d. That was actually the first thing I did after work. And that's how I saw that the 5800x3d was acting on 3200Mhz flat all the time, whether I was gaming or not. So I ran a Cinebench with a score of around 10.000. That triggered me to do the Bios update.

I assumed I had the latest Bios version because I updated it about a month ago. But a Bios update was released again. I went from version 4306 to 4402. After the update I ran a Cinebench and scored around 14.500, much better

And then I checked MW DMZ 2.0, no stutter anymore. The Bios update did the trick for me. And now I also noticed the improvement of the 5800x3d, higher framerate, and smoother transitions when moving fast, very nice. So I'm a happy camper now.

This also confirms it's not Nvidia's drivers causing the issue. I use the latest drivers currently, version 528.49.

Again, thanks for all the feedback and I hope you all will find a solution for your issue soon!

Grtz,
Huub

 

[Chry]

Hi all, thanks for all your input. Here a few responses on things which helped me finding out what the issue was, this may help others. Spoiler alert, my problem is fixed now, no 'stuttering' anymore!



I already saw your video, sharp to make the distinction between 'lag' and stuttering. Your problem is not what I'm suffering from. My issue feels like I miss certain frames, it skips a few and goes on where it supposed to be. But it feels like a 'stutter'. And that's indeed something else then lag!

I did not do a fu't ll re-install of Windows. I actually didndo much initially, just dropped the 5800x3d in replacing the 5800x, re-installed the chipset drivers and that was it. Later on I added the TPM hardware module in the hope that would fix it, but it didn't.

Before I went on problem solving I played a few more games but noticed that it was mostly MW DMZ 2.0 where I was suffering the issue. Other racing games I mostly play didn't suffer any lag at all. I also experienced the same kind of stutter in Insurgency Sandstorm. But after seeing the FPS spiking way above my 165hz gsync monitor specs, I turned Vsync on ingame and that removed the stutter.

What I also noticed in the overall experience is that the smoothness of the gameplay was a little less then I was used to with the 5800x. So I was not very impressed up until now. But that will change....



Good advice, checked all connections, especially the famous 12v power connector of the 4080, because I had to remove it when placing the TPM Module. But all was ok.



Interesting software 3xO, never tried it, but out of curiousity I'll do a round of MW 2.0 and post it here later.

In the meantime I read somebody saying that I should check my Afterburner chart to check the frequency response of the 5800x3d. That was actually the first thing I did after work. And that's how I saw that the 5800x3d was acting on 3200Mhz flat all the time, whether I was gaming or not. So I ran a Cinebench with a score of around 10.000. That triggered me to do the Bios update.

I assumed I had the latest Bios version because I updated it about a month ago. But a Bios update was released again. I went from version 4306 to 4402. After the update I ran a Cinebench and scored around 14.500, much better

And then I checked MW DMZ 2.0, no stutter anymore. The Bios update did the trick for me. And now I also noticed the improvement of the 5800x3d, higher framerate, and smoother transitions when moving fast, very nice. So I'm a happy camper now.

This also confirms it's not Nvidia's drivers causing the issue. I use the latest drivers currently, version 528.49.

Again, thanks for all the feedback and I hope you all will find a solution for your issue soon!

Grtz,
Huub

So in short, the solution for you was vsync+bios update, if I understood right?

 

[3x0]

This also confirms it's not Nvidia's drivers causing the issue. I use the latest drivers currently, version 528.49.

It doesn't unfortunately, this just confirms that in your case the BIOS was the issue. @tonypivo already has the latest update, so your fix doesn't apply to him.

 

[Huubsterr]

So in short, the solution for you was vsync+bios update, if I understood right?

At least the Bios update. The vsync worked for a specific game only, for the other games it was the Bios update indeed.

For completeness I want to add that before bios update etc I did add a TPM chip on the Mobo and haven't remove it since. So not sure whether that's also part of the solution. But I'll keep that one in place, for peace of mind..

It doesn't unfortunately, this just confirms that in your case the BIOS was the issue. @tonypivo already has the latest update, so your fix doesn't apply to him.

I'm not saying the latest NVidia drivers are the solution, but at least they cán work with a 5800x3d without problems.. So to me that means the drivers are not the cause of the issue. That's what I tried to say

I wanted to mention something else too. I haven't read anything here about Power supplies. I'm not that experienced myself with all kinds of power supplies, but a good friend of mine always advised me to not skimp on the power supply. Not in quantity (watts) and in quality (price). So I never did so and I must admit I never regretted that.

I see major benefits in picture quality, like with Asus Strix cards (you never read about that aspect though). But I can also imagine that having 'just enough' juice could also cause this kind of weird problems. Don't know about what your PSU's here, but maybe something to think about.

 

[oobymach]

I just wanted to add to this since I recently ran into frequent pausing issues with my 5800x3D, I had a -25 allcore and an additional -0.0125 on the cpu in bios and in Sons of the Forest (the only game I was playing at the time) I had constant stutter and pausing. Getting rid of the bios undervolt and adjusting the allcore to -20 fixed the pausing issue.

 

[Huubsterr]

Good initiative, I have to report some new insights as well.

SInce I kept suffering from the stutter in MW2, my main game at the moment, I went back to the 5800x. But to my suprise I still suffered from stutters, but far less frequently and not as bad. I actually think I had the stutter back then too, but it never bothered me since they are very minor and less frequent. But since I was now focussed on the stutter, I saw them right away.

After some time I was missing the 5800x3d because in fast movement action the 5800x3d is quite a bit better then the 5800x. The fps is not always much higher, but I really notice a difference in faster rendering of the images during fast action, the overview of what's happening around you is much better with the 5800x3d. The 5800x3d makes much better use of my 165hz Gsync monitor

So I switched CPU again, went back to the 5800x3d, and noticed the worse stuttering again in MW2. But I also noticed I did not turn on Vsync in-game. I thought I did, but apparently not. And after turning on vsync in-game the stutter level in MW2 went down dramatically. I would say at the same level as I have with the 5800x. So it seems that using vsync in-game does 'solve' the issue for me in those games where I suffer from that stutter.

I'm a sim racer too. My games of choice there don't suffer any stutter whatsoever with the 5800x3d. And especially with sim racing the smoothness of the 5800x3d is very apparent too. It's not that I was unhappy with the 5800x, but here you see the 5800x3d coming into its own. So I'm very happy with the 5800x3d!

It took some work to make the most of it. To summarize, for me the solution for the stuttering was twofold:
1 - updating the bios
2 - if suffering from stutter, turn on vsync in-game

 

[LabRat 891]

So I switched CPU again, went back to the 5800x3d, and noticed the worse stuttering again in MW2. But I also noticed I did not turn on Vsync in-game. I thought I did, but apparently not. And after turning on vsync in-game the stutter level in MW2 went down dramatically. I would say at the same level as I have with the 5800x. So it seems that using vsync in-game does 'solve' the issue for me in those games where I suffer from that stutter.

This sounds exactly like my experiences in 'hitting' thermal or power limits and 'perceiving' what everyone seems to think is supposed to be imperceptible: multi-millisecond-scale clock changes.
Might want to pull out a second display and throw Ryzen Master on it, to monitor while gaming. IIRC, AMD claims that ONLY Ryzen Master reports clocks and power 'correctly'.

Also, I can't stand VSYNC; I set FPS limits if I need to.

 

[Huubsterr]

I just wanted to add to this since I recently ran into frequent pausing issues with my 5800x3D, I had a -25 allcore and an additional -0.0125 on the cpu in bios and in Sons of the Forest (the only game I was playing at the time) I had constant stutter and pausing. Getting rid of the bios undervolt and adjusting the allcore to -20 fixed the pausing issue.

Interesting. I was about to check out undervolting, which I haven't done so far. I did so tonight and immediately saw a massive increase in the stutters indeed. So you might have a point here. Removed the undervolt again and it's back to 'normal'.

This sounds exactly like my experiences in 'hitting' thermal or power limits and 'perceiving' what everyone seems to think is supposed to be imperceptible: multi-millisecond-scale clock changes.
Might want to pull out a second display and throw Ryzen Master on it, to monitor while gaming. IIRC, AMD claims that ONLY Ryzen Master reports clocks and power 'correctly'.

Also, I can't stand VSYNC; I set FPS limits if I need to.

Never thought of that. So instead of enabling vsync you set the fps limits to the max of your display?

Now I'm typing this, I remember somebody commenting once to fix fps just under the max fps to prevent issues. Is that what you do too?

 

[Chry]

I remember somebody commenting once to fix fps just under the max fps to prevent issues. Is that what you do too?

I usually set fps limit to just ABOVE the display's refresh frequency.
What is the logic behind setting it lower than the display's refresh frequency?

 

[3x0]

What is the logic behind setting it lower than the display's refresh frequency?

VRR doesn't work for FPS higher than the screens refresh rate

 

[R-T-B]

VRR doesn't work for FPS higher than the screens refresh rate

Yep, just switches to plain ol vsync, often with a little latency involved. Or just goes to vsync off with tearing, which may be even worse.

 

[Huubsterr]

Thanks guys, will try that soon, turning off vsync and limit my max fps in-game to just under the max of my screen refresh rate. I'll report back on the outcome.

 

[Kapone33]

Thanks guys, will try that soon, turning off vsync and limit my max fps in-game to just under the max of my screen refresh rate. I'll report back on the outcome.

Just turn off Vsync and see what happens.

 

[Chomiq]

I usually set fps limit to just ABOVE the display's refresh frequency.
What is the logic behind setting it lower than the display's refresh frequency?

You're suppose to set it 3 fps below that of your refresh rate. If it's below, V-Sync will never engage.

 

[Huubsterr]

Thanks guys, will try that soon, turning of vsync and limit my max fps ingame to just under the max of my screen refresh rate. I'llnreport back on the outcome

Just turn off Vsync and see what happens.

That's the thing, then I have more stuttering, the issue I'm trying to solve here

 

[tabascosauz]

Thanks guys, will try that soon, turning of vsync and limit my max fps ingame to just under the max of my screen refresh rate. I'llnreport back on the outcome

That's the thing, then I have more stuttering, the issue I'm trying to solve here

MW2 is one of those games that doesn't work very well with Vsync off for whatever reason. MW19 had no issues.

I don't play WZ but MW2 has had a rough ride with stuttering and it's never really a single culprit.

• Server stutter and lag: especially when major patches drop it's pretty common and you have to wait a couple days to do any real testing
• Not playing media on other screens in-game: frequently causes periodic stutters on Nvidia, and unless they've fixed it recently video playback on the side causes absolute gong show on AMD
• Running in Fullscreen Exclusive
• Reinstall shaders
• Set a framecap (although on Nvidia 30 and 40 series as soon as you set Vsync it imposes an auto 158fps cap in many games, MW2 included)

Microstutter issue reemerged on mine recently as well, I did a fix I saw on Reddit that involves

1. uninstalling the game,
2. deleting the COD folder in Documents,
3. and reinstalling the game on a different drive.

Seems to work better than anything else I've tried in the past 4 years on MW19 and MW2. iirc if you have both games installed they share some files in Documents - I haven't fired up MW19 again since then, dunno if it causes problems with MW2.

 

[Deleted member 185158]

Thanks guys, will try that soon, turning of vsync and limit my max fps ingame to just under the max of my screen refresh rate. I'llnreport back on the outcome

That's the thing, then I have more stuttering, the issue I'm trying to solve here

Hi!

I have another thing you can try. Maybe a couple.

CSGO defaults to Directx11. Try changing it to DX9 by -force-d3d9 as a command before launching CSGO.

And maybe disable SMT. Not sure, just a hunch (for legacy gaming and benchmarking, it helps)

 

[Mussels]

Trash motherboard


It's overheating the VRM's on the x3D, it's one of those terrible ones that cant even handle a 65W CPU
B550 Motherboards VRM Cheatsheet - Comparison by Hardware Unboxed : buildapc (reddit.com)

The "10+3" VRM layout is... not.
It's all phase doublers, so it's more like 5 low quality VRM's

To be clear, it's the worst in the entire roundup
These are the VRM temperatures on the back of the PCB

In certain setups it bounced around between worst and second worst place in heat, but that's also because it's one of the boards that lies oops i mean sorry "It's inaccurate" with power and temperature reporting, so it would report incorrect temperatures in software for the VRM's (hence the thermal probe for their testing) and would throttle the CPU in some tests, keeping itself cooler at the cost of performance



The *only* way to use that board and NOT have it stutter is to enable PBO, and then create your own eco mode with lower settings, specifically keeping the PPT values right down




With a 3900x and PBO limits enabled, heres how that board fit in the standard testing lineup - but that's not taking any performance issues into account
The 3900x had a 105W PPT, while if PBO is enabled - like trying to use the curve optimiser for the x3D - that's going to shoot up as high as 142w

 

[Space Lynx]

Trash motherboard


It's overheating the VRM's on the x3D, it's one of those terrible ones that cant even handle a 65W CPU
B550 Motherboards VRM Cheatsheet - Comparison by Hardware Unboxed : buildapc (reddit.com)

The "10+3" VRM layout is... not.
It's all phase doublers, so it's more like 5 low quality VRM's
View attachment 287084


To be clear, it's the worst in the entire roundup
These are the VRM temperatures on the back of the PCB
View attachment 287085

In certain setups it bounced around between worst and second worst place in heat, but that's also because it's one of the boards that lies oops i mean sorry "It's inaccurate" with power and temperature reporting, so it would report incorrect temperatures in software for the VRM's (hence the thermal probe for their testing) and would throttle the CPU in some tests, keeping itself cooler at the cost of performance



The *only* way to use that board and NOT have it stutter is to enable PBO, and then create your own eco mode with lower settings, specifically keeping the PPT values right down




With a 3900x and PBO limits enabled, heres how that board fit in the standard testing lineup - but that's not taking any performance issues into account
The 3900x had a 105W PPT, while if PBO is enabled - like trying to use the curve optimiser for the x3D - that's going to shoot up as high as 142w
View attachment 287086

winner winner chicken dinner

this is why I always buy MSI boards with heatsinks, regardless of tier they do a decent job. the 3xx series didn't but MSI corrected that mistake and haven't made the same mistake again.

 

[tonypivo]

Trash motherboard


It's overheating the VRM's on the x3D, it's one of those terrible ones that cant even handle a 65W CPU
B550 Motherboards VRM Cheatsheet - Comparison by Hardware Unboxed : buildapc (reddit.com)

The "10+3" VRM layout is... not.
It's all phase doublers, so it's more like 5 low quality VRM's
View attachment 287084


To be clear, it's the worst in the entire roundup
These are the VRM temperatures on the back of the PCB
View attachment 287085

In certain setups it bounced around between worst and second worst place in heat, but that's also because it's one of the boards that lies oops i mean sorry "It's inaccurate" with power and temperature reporting, so it would report incorrect temperatures in software for the VRM's (hence the thermal probe for their testing) and would throttle the CPU in some tests, keeping itself cooler at the cost of performance



The *only* way to use that board and NOT have it stutter is to enable PBO, and then create your own eco mode with lower settings, specifically keeping the PPT values right down




With a 3900x and PBO limits enabled, heres how that board fit in the standard testing lineup - but that's not taking any performance issues into account
The 3900x had a 105W PPT, while if PBO is enabled - like trying to use the curve optimiser for the x3D - that's going to shoot up as high as 142w
View attachment 287086

100% true. I am planning to replace my mobo soon, will keep this post updated
thanks for the info provided, I appreciate it

MW2 is one of those games that doesn't work very well with Vsync off for whatever reason. MW19 had no issues.

I don't play WZ but MW2 has had a rough ride with stuttering and it's never really a single culprit.

• Server stutter and lag: especially when major patches drop it's pretty common and you have to wait a couple days to do any real testing
• Not playing media on other screens in-game: frequently causes periodic stutters on Nvidia, and unless they've fixed it recently video playback on the side causes absolute gong show on AMD
• Running in Fullscreen Exclusive
• Reinstall shaders
• Set a framecap (although on Nvidia 30 and 40 series as soon as you set Vsync it imposes an auto 158fps cap in many games, MW2 included)

Microstutter issue reemerged on mine recently as well, I did a fix I saw on Reddit that involves

1. uninstalling the game,
2. deleting the COD folder in Documents,
3. and reinstalling the game on a different drive.

Seems to work better than anything else I've tried in the past 4 years on MW19 and MW2. iirc if you have both games installed they share some files in Documents - I haven't fired up MW19 again since then, dunno if it causes problems with MW2.

Also, this is a great suggestion.

The stutters in wz2 I described above were caused by Fullscreen borderless that cod switched to automatically after a small update. I have enabled the Fullscreen Exclusive and the stutters are 99% gone.

Now i see fps drops in WZ2, but that is a whole other topic, since its game related. I have seen same setups with the identical fps drops. What a game to be playing