Fudzilla and nVidia...

[driver66]

Its hard not to like the more likeable company of the two. ATI have failed horribly with their 2xxx cards, they apologised and worked on it, producing 3xxx which is allright and 4xxx which is decent. When 5xxx card was released, it blew the competition away and the pricing excellent (at least for some of them). All this time Nvidia is spending its time repackaging G80 and shoving it to the ( uninformed) customers(or fanboys), so I think it is easy to see who I like better.

Fixed

 

[TheOne]

The above is:

It's not my fault you don't read the articles you send me. :shadedshu

 

[DonInKansas]

I understand all of that, but it still brings into question the impartiality of any poll at this site. I noticed back in 2006 or 2007 (when Nvidia clearly had the upper hand) that more people were active in the ATI subforum. Also, most people (seemed like 2/3) were using ATI cards in a "what graphics card do you use" poll. This was fine by me and I was very appreciative of the ATI knowledgeable people here since it helped me get the most out of my X850 Pro.

The site does have always had a lot of ATI fans and I don't think a poll being on the front page is going to negate that.

You're kidding, right? Before the 5xxx series dropped you couldn't go 3 seconds without stumbling over a Nvidia card owner in here. Forum threads are hardly an accurate representation of "fanboyism" or whatever.

Maybe you should apply for a job at Semi-accurate.

 

[Zubasa]

Going by the poll with 3,230 voters, it is pretty safe to assume that the 1,689 who voted "Power/Heat/Noise is important, no Fermi for me" are ATI fans, whereas the 95 voters who voted for "Yes, it's the better card" are NVIDIA fans, meaning that the remaining 1,447 voters are either impartial or not complete fan boys for their cards, the numbers also show a definite lean towards ATI by the people who traffic this site.

Also I would like to note:

Fermi vs HD5000: Fan Noise: (IDLE/LOAD)/Temperature: (FurMark: IDLE/LOAD)/Power Consumption: (TDP's from Wiki)(IDLE/AVERAGE/PEAK/MAXIMUM/BLU-RAY)
GTX480 - 30/50 dbA / 57/97 / (TDP 250W) 54/223/257/320/85 W
GTX470 - ---------- / 50/96 / (TDP 215W)
HD5870 - 27/43 dbA / 55/92 / (TDP 188W) 19/122/144/212/40 W
HD5850 - 29/35 dbA / 41/82 / (TDP 151W) 18/92/108/150/38 W
GTX295 - 33/49 dbA / 57/92 / (TDP 289W) 55/181/218/320/82 W Taken from Tom's Hardware & TPU's Fermi Reviews http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-480,2585.html (Temperature)
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_480_Fermi/1.html (Fan Noise/Power Consumption)

Small fact that people who buy High-End GPU's should know, you should expect three things, Noise, Heat, and Power. As you can see all of the top end single chip GPU's are loud and produce a large amount of heat, ATI has better power, NVIDIA failed to fix its energy problem, but as you can see the GTX480 that out performs the GTX295 doesn't require a great deal more energy to deliver better performance than the dual chip GPU: 1W IDLE, 42W AVERAGE, 39W PEAK, 0W MAXIMUM, 3W BLU-RAY.

Thank you for showing that the GTX 295 is a better card than the GTX 480
What you just did is show that the level of perfomance can be done on 55nm and consume about the same power as the in-efficient GTX 480 on 40 nm.
When you count in that the GTX 295 isn't scalling at 100%, you can see the GTX 480 looks even worst.

Why "upgrade" to a GTX 480 when someone has a GTX 295?
The GTX 480 consumes more power, and puts out more heat and noise.
Most importantly the GF100 is barely even faster.

So yes, "Power/Heat/Noise is important, no Fermi for me" is a valid point for many users.
There are still many people rocking GTX 275/GTX285 SLI or GTX 295 setups that out performs the GTX 480.
Sorry, you can't just assume that 1600+ people are just ATi fanboys.

 

[Maban]

Going by the poll with 3,230 voters, it is pretty safe to assume that the 1,689 who voted "Power/Heat/Noise is important, no Fermi for me" are ATI fans, whereas the 95 voters who voted for "Yes, it's the better card" are NVIDIA fans, meaning that the remaining 1,447 voters are either impartial or not complete fan boys for their cards, the numbers also suggests a lean towards ATI by the people who traffic this site.

Fixed.

 

[wahdangun]

Going by the poll with 3,230 voters, it is pretty safe to assume that the 1,689 who voted "Power/Heat/Noise is important, no Fermi for me" are ATI fans, whereas the 95 voters who voted for "Yes, it's the better card" are NVIDIA fans, meaning that the remaining 1,447 voters are either impartial or not complete fan boys for their cards, the numbers also show a definite lean towards ATI by the people who traffic this site.

Also I would like to note:

Fermi vs HD5000: Fan Noise: (IDLE/LOAD)/Temperature: (FurMark: IDLE/LOAD)/Power Consumption: (TDP's from Wiki)(IDLE/AVERAGE/PEAK/MAXIMUM/BLU-RAY)
GTX480 - 30/50 dbA / 57/97 / (TDP 250W) 54/223/257/320/85 W
GTX470 - ---------- / 50/96 / (TDP 215W)
HD5870 - 27/43 dbA / 55/92 / (TDP 188W) 19/122/144/212/40 W
HD5850 - 29/35 dbA / 41/82 / (TDP 151W) 18/92/108/150/38 W
GTX295 - 33/49 dbA / 57/92 / (TDP 289W) 55/181/218/320/82 W Taken from Tom's Hardware & TPU's Fermi Reviews http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-480,2585.html (Temperature)
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_480_Fermi/1.html (Fan Noise/Power Consumption)

Small fact that people who buy High-End GPU's should know, you should expect three things, Noise, Heat, and Power. As you can see all of the top end single chip GPU's are loud and produce a large amount of heat, ATI has better power, NVIDIA failed to fix its energy problem, but as you can see the GTX480 that out performs the GTX295 doesn't require a great deal more energy to deliver better performance than the dual chip GPU: 1W IDLE, 42W AVERAGE, 39W PEAK, 0W MAXIMUM, 3W BLU-RAY.

so what the hell ati doing with HD 5870 ? are they use fairy dust? look at graph :

HD 5870 use less power than HD 4870X2 (it's even more power efficient than HD 4870), but look at GTX 480 it's use MORE power than GTX 295

yeah what the hell nvdia doing, they should make the card more power efficient, or we should expect GTX 580 will require 1000 watt PSU just to boot it.

 

[TheOne]

Thank you for showing that the GTX 295 is a better card than the GTX 480
What you just did is show that the level of perfomance can be done on 55nm and consume about the same power as the in-efficient GTX 480 on 40 nm.
When you count in that the GTX 295 isn't scalling at 100%, you can see the GTX 480 looks even worst.

Why "upgrade" to a GTX 480 when someone has a GTX 295?
The GTX 480 consumes more power, and puts out more heat and noise.
Most importantly the GF100 is barely even faster.

So yes, "Power/Heat/Noise is important, no Fermi for me" is a valid point for many users.
There are still many people rocking GTX 275/GTX285 SLI or GTX 295 setups that out performs the GTX 480.
Sorry, you can't just assume that 1600+ people are just ATi fanboys.

If you have a GTX295 there probably isn’t any reason to upgrade to any of the current next-gen GPU’s, other than for DX11 and Tessellation for upcoming games and applications.

The Poll question was "Is GTX 480 / Fermi a game changer for you?", however "Power/Heat/Noise is important, no Fermi for me" is an odd answer given that all high-end GPU's suffer from those issues, the Graph I made shows that when it comes to heat and noise that NVIDIA and ATI are in the same boat, it’s not a legitimate point of controversy at all, as far as power went, the GTX480 uses the same amount of power as the GTX295, which is ridiculous for a single chip GPU, but being high-end shouldn't really have changed your mind if that’s the way you were leaning, so the poll question shows a large portions of people who visit this site don't want Fermi because of heat/noise/power, then you weren't looking for a high-end GPU in the first place, you’re looking for the HD5770.

so what the hell ati doing with HD 5870 ? are they use fairy dust? look at graph :
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_480_Fermi/images/power_peak.gif

HD 5870 use less power than HD 4870X2 (it's even more power efficient than HD 4870), but look at GTX 480 it's use MORE power than GTX 295

yeah what the hell nvdia doing, they should make the card more power efficient, or we should expect GTX 580 will require 1000 watt PSU just to boot it.

I'm unclear as to why you two are taking such a hostile approach to the graph, the graph was added to show the difference in Fan Noise/Temperatures/Power Consumption of the cards they are competing against, I added the GTX295 to show the power consumption of the GTX480 and the fact that NVIDIA screwed it up, and I added the comment that it’s out performs the GTX295 to show that at least the huge power bill you will suffer wasn’t a complete waste. Noise/heat/power are the three main draw backs to high-end GPU's or so I've been lead to believe.

 

[Zubasa]

If you have a GTX295 there probably isn’t any reason to upgrade to any of the current next-gen GPU’s, other than for DX11 and Tessellation for upcoming games and applications.

The Poll question was "Is GTX 480 / Fermi a game changer for you?", however "Power/Heat/Noise is important, no Fermi for me" is an odd answer given that all high-end GPU's suffer from those issues, the Graph I made shows that when it comes to heat and noise that NVIDIA and ATI are in the same boat, it’s not a legitimate point of controversy at all, as far as power went, the GTX480 uses the same amount of power as the GTX295, which is ridiculous for a single chip GPU, but being high-end shouldn't really have changed your mind if that’s the way you were leaning, so the poll question shows a large portions of people who visit this site don't want Fermi because of heat/noise/power, then you weren't looking for a high-end GPU in the first place, you’re looking for the HD5770.

I'm unclear as to why you two are taking such a hostile approach to the graph, the graph was added to show the difference in Fan Noise/Temperatures/Power Consumption of the cards they are competing against, I added the GTX295 to show the power consumption of the GTX480 and the fact that NVIDIA screwed it up, and I added the comment that it’s out performs the GTX295 to show that at least the huge power bill you will suffer wasn’t a complete waste. Noise/heat/power are the three main draw backs to high-end GPU's or so I've been lead to believe.

The card I own right now does not "suffer" from the "heat/noise/power" problem.
It is a high-end GPU, feel free to argue other-wise.

The GTX 480 "out-pefroms" the GTX 295 by merely 9% at best (that is 1024x768), and at the highest resolution (2560*1600) it actually loses to the GTX 295 which is unacceptable with so many draw backs.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_480_Fermi/32.html

The cards are virtually on the same performance level.

What makes you think that I have an hostile approach to the graph?
I was just pointing out that your comments are flawed in the first place, and you graphs actually shows what I meant.

If you have actually read W1z's review entirely, you will see that the GTX 480 consistently using more power doing virtually the same job as a GTX 295.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_480_Fermi/30.html

 

[Wile E]

...snip...

Yeah, but to play Devil's advocate here, how, then, do you explain that 5970 consumes less and performs better?

 

[TheOne]

The card I own right now does not "suffer" from the "heat/noise/power" problem.
It is a high-end GPU, feel free to argue other-wise.

The GTX 480 "out-pefroms" the GTX 295 by merely 9% at best (that is 1024x768), and at the highest resolution (2560*1600) it actually loses to the GTX 295 which is unacceptable with so many draw backs.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_480_Fermi/32.html
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_480_Fermi/images/perfrel_1024.gifhttp://tpucdn.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_480_Fermi/images/perfrel_2560.gif
The cards are virtually on the same performance level.

What makes you think that I have an hostile approach to the graph?
I was just pointing out that your comments are flawed in the first place, and you graphs actually shows what I meant.

If you have actually read W1z's review entirely, you will see that the GTX 480 consistently using more power doing virtually the same job as a GTX 295.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_480_Fermi/30.html

You do not understand my graphs, you have not understood what I've been saying.

Let me break this down for you, the GTX295 is either outperformed depending on the game or app or is generally right there at the GTX480, which uses more power, of course you are right when you say the GTX480/470 doesn't do as well in high resolutions, but they still usually stay close in numbers.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-480,2585.html

As for the ATI HD5870, the card you claim to have, in the same benchmarks as Fermi when it comes to heat and noise, they are pretty close, the ATI HD5000 has excellent power consumption.

Let me try to explain the graph I made from Benches done here at TPU and at Tom's Hardware.

I took the 3 most common issues with high-end gpus, even the HD5870, noise/heat/power, and put them side by side, the graphs are completely unbiased and never showed any information against ATI or NVIDIA, only what review sites got, the graph shows the equal heat and noise between the GTX480/470, HD5870, and GTX295, with the HD5850 being the quietest of them all and with the least amount of heat. The power consumption showed Fermi's huge appetite, and HD5800's well-maintained power management.

 

[Kantastic]

You do not understand my graphs, you have not understood what I've been saying.

Let me break this down for you, the GTX295 is either outperformed depending on the game or app or is generally right there at the GTX480, which uses more power, of course you are right when you say the GTX480/470 doesn't do as well in high resolutions, but they still usually stay close in numbers.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-480,2585.html

As for the ATI HD5870, the card you claim to have, in the same benchmarks as Fermi when it comes to heat and noise, they are pretty close, the ATI HD5000 has excellent power consumption.

Let me try to explain the graph I made from Benches done here at TPU and at Tom's Hardware.

I took the 3 most common issues with high-end gpus, even the HD5870, noise/heat/power, and put them side by side, the graphs are completely unbiased and never showed any information against ATI or NVIDIA, only what review sites got, the graph shows the equal heat and noise between the GTX480/470, HD5870, and GTX295, with the HD5850 being the quietest of them all and with the least amount of heat. The power consumption showed Fermi's huge appetite, and HD5800's well-maintained power management.

Did you say TomsHardware?

 

[Zubasa]

So you are saying that the 5870 @43 dbA is close to the GTX 480 @50dbA?

 

[sneekypeet]

OMG does this have to happen in every fermi thread?

 

[TheOne]

So you are saying that the 5870 @43 dbA is close to the GTX 480 @50dbA?

Are you saying that a 7dbA difference is a huge jump. The graph just shows you what was listed, its up to your own personal preference as how you take it.

OMG does this have to happen in every fermi thread?

-.- I'm just trying to show a comparison, I haven't seen one on review sites, their all mixed up, which is why i had to take from TPU and Tom's Hardware.

 

[DriedFrogPills]

Are you saying that a 7dbA difference is a huge jump. The graph just shows you what was listed, its up to your own personal preference as how you take it.

its a huge jump as decibels do not increase linearly 2db=1db x 2 but 3db = 2db x 2 and 4db = 3db x 2. so an inceare of 7db (from 43 to 50) is NOT a 14% increase it is infact a 700% inbcrease

 

[Zubasa]

Are you saying that a 7dbA difference is a huge jump. The graph just shows you what was listed, its up to your own personal preference as how you take it.

its a huge jump as decibels do not increase linearly 2db=1db x 2 but 3db = 2db x 2 and 4db = 3db x 2. so an inceare of 7db (from 43 to 50) is NOT a 14% increase it is infact a 700% inbcrease

Yup, I posted my comments assuming that you (TheOne) knows that the db or decibel is a logarithmic unit.
I wasn't in the mood of being a physics teacher nor am I qualified to be one.

What I want to point out is that the numbers on the graphs are also "A-Weighted".
Meanining that lower frequency sounds "accounts for less" to be more realistic to human hearing.

Our ears are much less sensitive to Bass and this is why we have these large sub-woovers in a 2.1 speaker system to make things "sounds right".

 

[TheOne]

Yup, I posted my comments assuming that you (TheOne) knows that the db or decibel is a logarithmic unit.
I wasn't in the mood of being a physics teacher nor am I qualified to be one.

I have a single slot XFX 9600GT as my primary in my SLi setup that gets very loud at 50%, it also runs hot it idle's around mid to high 40's and then under load can get to about the mid 60's, my secondary MSI 9600GT is a dual slot that stays rather cool, usually around the mid 30's idle and then around mid 40's under load.

I just made the graph to demostrate differences in noise/temp/power, how anyone takes them is their own affair I think, after all I had nothing to do with the reading's.

 

[Super XP]

Thank you for showing that the GTX 295 is a better card than the GTX 480 So yes, "Power/Heat/Noise is important, no Fermi for me" is a valid point for many users.
There are still many people rocking GTX 275/GTX285 SLI or GTX 295 setups that out performs the GTX 480.
Sorry, you can't just assume that 1600+ people are just ATi fanboys.

I would have to agree, it’s already evident that Fermi is as inefficient as they get. NVIDIA already lost this round Big Time, let’s move on Boyz.

 

[DaedalusHelios]

i once slept in the same room with fudo but there was no ati

I have heard Europe is more open to that sort of thing.

 

[Super XP]

It says it right in your quote about Mike Magee.

That means they are doing things to get ratings, not to spread facts. It's sensationalism, not reporting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabloid

Except that Apple did not ditch nVidia. That's not truth, AT ALL.

Rumors do not equal fact or truth. Sure, they get some things right, but even a blind squirrel occasionally finds an acorn.

Do you read The Sun to get your regular news as well?

I disagree with you, rumours eventually equal facts providing the company or economics change at a later time. The whole point in these websites is to investigate and retrieve information from industry sources. The Inquirer is not sometimes right, they are almost always right on.

If an AMD insider came to you and told you that AMD is planning on a surprise release of the HD 6800 series in Q3 2010, regardless whether this comes true or not, or if he’s pulling your chain, what do you call this? Rumour.

 

[DaedalusHelios]

I understand all of that, but it still brings into question the impartiality of any poll at this site. I noticed back in 2006 or 2007 (when Nvidia clearly had the upper hand) that more people were active in the ATI subforum. Also, most people (seemed like 2/3) were using ATI cards in a "what graphics card do you use" poll. This was fine by me and I was very appreciative of the ATI knowledgeable people here since it helped me get the most out of my X850 Pro.

The site does have always had a lot of ATI fans and I don't think a poll being on the front page is going to negate that.

Well I would say that this site is more favored to ATi, but it depends on what side each forum or a review site takes. Not by much here though. But to think it is completely impartial would be very naive. People either tilt to one side or the other. It isn't always a conscious decision so it doesn't need to be focused on as it would get us nowhere doing so. If it is ok with you I think we should just leave it at that though.

 

[wahdangun]

You do not understand my graphs, you have not understood what I've been saying.

Let me break this down for you, the GTX295 is either outperformed depending on the game or app or is generally right there at the GTX480, which uses more power, of course you are right when you say the GTX480/470 doesn't do as well in high resolutions, but they still usually stay close in numbers.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-480,2585.html

As for the ATI HD5870, the card you claim to have, in the same benchmarks as Fermi when it comes to heat and noise, they are pretty close, the ATI HD5000 has excellent power consumption.

Let me try to explain the graph I made from Benches done here at TPU and at Tom's Hardware.

I took the 3 most common issues with high-end gpus, even the HD5870, noise/heat/power, and put them side by side, the graphs are completely unbiased and never showed any information against ATI or NVIDIA, only what review sites got, the graph shows the equal heat and noise between the GTX480/470, HD5870, and GTX295, with the HD5850 being the quietest of them all and with the least amount of heat. The power consumption showed Fermi's huge appetite, and HD5800's well-maintained power management.

hmm equal HEAT and NOISE ??? are you kidding ?

look at HD 5870 graph:

and then compare it GTX 480 :

you see, it's 21 degree different, and i think if ati went to nvdia, and clocking their card to
1 Ghz, nvdia will be very difficult to compete with ati

 

[Bjorn_Of_Iceland]

I just really find this contradicting.. here and in other sites, you can see bad press and people not buying fermi.. but then you see articles like "big demand; massive shortages". wtf

 

[Zubasa]

I just really find this contradicting.. here and in other sites, you can see bad press and people not buying fermi.. but then you see articles like "big demand; massive shortages". wtf

Massive shortage yes, big demands not so much

 

[Bjorn_Of_Iceland]

Massive shortage yes, big demands not so much

i see.. so no problems in shortages then. I guess it will be a problem when people will be wanting em.