G.Skill Ripjaws V 3600MHz or Trident Z 3866MHz?

[FireFox]

Seems like a huge waste of cash to me considering the lack of performance improvement...way to strap a fire hose to your garden spigot.

...regardless, enjoy!

You know me, nothing to be surprised if i waste money in things i don't really need, it looks like i am pretty good doing it, i wont never forget that time you quoted one of my post and wrote this: You are beyond help though knoxx... we try to save who we can.

 

[DR4G00N]

Single rank though (1RX8).

Single rank B-Die are better, Dual rank is only good for Ryzen or X299 since getting high efficiency is more difficult on those platforms.

I couldn't be happier

Nice, they're exactly what I thought they would be, B-Die on A1 PCB (IE. they'll likely have more resale value later on).
You might wan't to try and tighten up those timings some though, G.Skill makes their kit's look as if they have good timings for the frequency, but they really just make the secondary's & tertiary's super loose to make it work.

The Hero board may have DRAM profiles in the bios, I'm not sure, it may be too mainstream for them to have bothered including any.

 

[FireFox]

You might wan't to try and tighten up those timings some though

If someone is willing to help me i would do it, i never payed attention to understand how to Overclock the Ram.

Note: only thing i changed was the Cycle Time from 39 to 37

 

[Vario]

I don't know much about Ram, you quoted my post now i am lost

All i can say is: my dream ( 4000MHz ) costed me 364€

Well you had dual rank before even if the speeds and subtimings was slower, there is a slight latency advantage to dual rank, but on the other hand you will be able to run 4000+, try for higher.

Looks like you got the same ram I have @Knoxx29 .

edit:

Single rank B-Die are better, Dual rank is only good for Ryzen or X299 since getting high efficiency is more difficult on those platforms.


Nice, they're exactly what I thought they would be, B-Die on A1 PCB (IE. they'll likely have more resale value later on).
You might wan't to try and tighten up those timings some though, G.Skill makes their kit's look as if they have good timings for the frequency, but they really just make the secondary's & tertiary's super loose to make it work.

The Hero board may have DRAM profiles in the bios, I'm not sure, it may be too mainstream for them to have bothered including any.

Hmm thought the dual rank was better for both intel and amd.

Get ready for a big surprise! Our analysis of dual-rank DIMMs showed that Intel’s mainstream platforms work best with at least four ranks employed, and that getting there required either four single-rank or two dual-rank DIMMs. F1 2015 is known for being bottlenecked by both the CPU and RAM, so increasing the CPU clock to 4.80 GHz in today’s test allowed the four-rank advantage of two dual-rank DIMMs to be excessively pronounced. It gets worse for the single-rank pairs when I look at my notes and find that, at DDR4-3200, the minimums were 71.4, 77.5, 86.6, and 113.0 FPS, in that order, for the four sets shown.

Our recent review of Teamgroup’s ROG-series RAM further exposed something we noticed long ago: The integrated memory controller of Intel’s Kaby Lake CPU has a strong preference for four banks of memory. We knew this even before Kaby Lake launched, because that preference was also expressed in Skylake. Yet it wasn’t until we got new graphics and storage hardware that we were capable of seeing the extent of that performance benefit in a real-world test scenario. And by the way, the industry now refers to a bank of chips (ICs) as a “rank,” to avoid confusion between that and a bank of cells inside the IC.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/corsair-vengeance-lpx-16gb-ddr4-4600-memory,5344-2.html

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/7vy2zs

 

[FireFox]

@sneekypeet what do you think is this any better?

Test #1

Test #2

Test #3

 

[John Naylor]

Some apps will benefit from more speed, some will benefit from lower latency ... in your case, 3866 is better than 3600 and 18 is better than 19 so same pair wins on both counts making the decision an easy one

Rough rule of thumb for overall usage... doesn't equate but an overall expectation over all potential usages to anything but in relation to one another.

CAS x 1000 / Speed ..

19 x 1000 / 3600 = 5.28ns
18 x 1000 / 3866 = 4.66ns

I kinda stopped playing with memory after DDR3.

1. There was so much misinformation about OH no... you lose the arranty if you exceed 1.5v on DDR3 (not) ... Oh no you lose the warrannty over 1.2v on DDR4 (not_ ... then ya go to the Intel QVL XMP list and see 1.76 / 1.70 on DDR3 nd 1.35 on DDR4 and Intel stating "we really don't like over 1.5v" I have seen Mushkin DDR3 at 1.94

2. I really wasn't seeing anything performance wise ... yea memory benchies got me higher numbers but application and gaming usage were not imapcted.... other than the fun out of doing it, i wasn't seeing an returns outside benchmarks.

 

[Woomack]

1. There was so much misinformation about OH no... you lose the arranty if you exceed 1.5v on DDR3 (not) ... Oh no you lose the warrannty over 1.2v on DDR4 (not_ ... then ya go to the Intel QVL XMP list and see 1.76 / 1.70 on DDR3 nd 1.35 on DDR4 and Intel stating "we really don't like over 1.5v" I have seen Mushkin DDR3 at 1.94

1.5V max on DDR3 was Intel specification for SB and it wasn't even tested by them if higher voltage can damage anything, as some Intel engineers said later. It was still in the specs later just because official Intel spec doesn't include overclocking. XMP is actually an overclocked specification and memory manufacturers can set this profile as they want.
No matter what warranty says, no one will check if memory was working at lower or higher voltage.
Early DDR3 were based on IC that was specified for higher voltages. It was like a bridge between DDR2 and DDR3. 1.65-1.9V was "standard" voltage for early Elpida, PSC or Micron IC.

 

[Solid State Soul ( SSS )]

Buy the one with the lowest latency.

 

[FireFox]

I got the Trident Z 18-19-19-39 and now they are running at 17-17-17-37

 

[Vario]

I got the Trident Z 18-19-19-39 and now they are running at 17-17-17-37

And 4000? very nice.

 

[FireFox]

And 4000? very nice.

That's right 4000MHz

 

[FireFox]

Did the Ram prices went up in 2019?

On 08.11. 2018 when i bought the G.Skill Trident Z 32GB i paid EUR 364,45

Today it costs EUR 515,66

Is this happening just in EU or it is Worldwide?

 

[Enterprise24]

Well you had dual rank before even if the speeds and subtimings was slower, there is a slight latency advantage to dual rank, but on the other hand you will be able to run 4000+, try for higher.

Looks like you got the same ram I have @Knoxx29 .

edit:

Hmm thought the dual rank was better for both intel and amd.




https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/corsair-vengeance-lpx-16gb-ddr4-4600-memory,5344-2.html

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/7vy2zs

Thanks for this post. I am confuse before about dual rank vs double side.
After a bit of research it seem that single side = single rank while double side can be 2x single rank or dual rank.
Fortunately my OEM RAM is 2Rx8 which mean dual rank. I think I will buy another set of the same ram so I will get 8 rank in total !!
PS. I have b-die before that clock at 4133 17-17-17-37 stable. Performance different in Geekbench 4 ST (extremely memory intensive) with 5Ghz 8700K is minor. I got around 7000 with b-die and 69XX with my current cheap OEM RAM @ 3500Mhz. I think another 4 rank will bring the score closer to b-die. Not talking about extreme b-die like 3866+ 12-11 2V.

 

[FireFox]

Talking about Ram:

I have always been confused about what is the Max safe Voltage for VCCSA, VCCIO and Ram? some users claim that for VCCSA, VCCIO the max is 1.25V while some others claim below 1.15V but i have seem some users using 1.35V or more, at the end of the day i don't get what is right or what is wrong, the other thing is the Ram voltage, i have read that 1.45V is safe i know there are Ram kits rated 1.45V but those Ram rated 1.35V will they survive 1.45V for 24/7?

 

[phill]

I always try to keep things as low as possible for fair gain to be honest.

I don't see the point throwing loads of volts through the CPU or RAM or anything for that matter for minimal gains. For my 5960X for example, I run 4.20Ghz under 1.10vcore without any issues, the VCCSA and VCCIO are as close to stock as they can be even when running the RAM as fast as possible, it's as stable as I need it to be. I think I use something like 1.2v for VCCSA and 1.15 for the VCCIO when I'm pushing it as with X99, high RAM speeds etc aren't the easiest thing to do on the platform.. As I am crunching with the WCG, I felt that I don't need the ram to be as fast as possible because it'll not make that much difference everyday and if I drop work units I'd loose more than I'd gain. I'm better off at a slightly slower speed than something that's not quite 100% stable or even 95% stable for that matter.
As for volts, everything is relative. If your running high volts (personally speaking) you need cooling it's just a lot safer. More volts more heat more issues if things gets too hot. Decent ram will probably cope with anything I'd say up to 1.45v easily for everyday and more so if it's cooled. If your pushing 2v+ through it and not cooling it then it's likely it's not going to last for too long (but I'm sure you'll find something on the internet that completely blow that theory out the window lol) Used to run some ram I had (DDR4) at 2v+ for benching with a fan over it, never even got close to warm.. Still netted me some great scores

I think what you should be asking yourself is more so, how much voltage are you willing to throw through things and if things break or get damaged along the way, would you be prepared to or want to, to replace them... Also depends if you're trying to get something stable for you or show off some bigger numbers than the next guy, as always, there's always a bigger fish somewhere

 

[FireFox]

I always try to keep things as low as possible for fair gain to be honest.

I don't see the point throwing loads of volts through the CPU or RAM or anything for that matter for minimal gains. For my 5960X for example, I run 4.20Ghz under 1.10vcore without any issues, the VCCSA and VCCIO are as close to stock as they can be even when running the RAM as fast as possible, it's as stable as I need it to be. I think I use something like 1.2v for VCCSA and 1.15 for the VCCIO when I'm pushing it as with X99, high RAM speeds etc aren't the easiest thing to do on the platform.. As I am crunching with the WCG, I felt that I don't need the ram to be as fast as possible because it'll not make that much difference everyday and if I drop work units I'd loose more than I'd gain. I'm better off at a slightly slower speed than something that's not quite 100% stable or even 95% stable for that matter.
As for volts, everything is relative. If your running high volts (personally speaking) you need cooling it's just a lot safer. More volts more heat more issues if things gets too hot. Decent ram will probably cope with anything I'd say up to 1.45v easily for everyday and more so if it's cooled. If your pushing 2v+ through it and not cooling it then it's likely it's not going to last for too long (but I'm sure you'll find something on the internet that completely blow that theory out the window lol) Used to run some ram I had (DDR4) at 2v+ for benching with a fan over it, never even got close to warm.. Still netted me some great scores

It is the same for me, am not at all a fan of high voltages even i know 1.40V 24/7 wont hurt the Ram i still prefer to use lower than that and for the VCCSA and VCCIO the lower the voltage the happier i am but unfortunately if i want to keep my Ram at 4000MHz/4100MHz i need to increase the VCCSA, VCCIO voltage to 1.21V and the Ram at least 1.37V/1.38V which is more than safe and the only way i can use low voltages ( 1.12V/1.10V VCCSA, VCCIO - 1.35V Ram ) is if i run the Ram at it is rated speed ( 3866MHz ).

I think what you should be asking yourself is more so, how much voltage are you willing to throw through things and if things break or get damaged along the way, would you be prepared to or want to, to replace them... Also depends if you're trying to get something stable for you or show off some bigger numbers than the next guy, as always, there's always a bigger fish somewhere

For daily use surely i am not willing to add any extra voltage and since i hate high voltages 1.21V VCCSA and VCCIO kinda bothers me.

 

[phill]

The only other thing then Knoxx is that you can swap out the CPU and RAM and see if you can get better clocking ram or a CPU that will handle the speeds.

I believe your a man like myself who would rather pay the extra to get something a little more than to buy cheap, as you know it'll cost you double the second time around. With the ram you have, is it 4 sticks or 2? Sometimes swapping out for less ram, will allow a higher overclock and that might help a little but it would mean spending more again.

What's the stock voltages for the VCCSA and VCCIO on the 8086k's? (Scratch that, I've just found a link....) Tweaktown's guide for 8700k overclocking... Maybe that might put your mind at ease my good sir?

 

[FireFox]

I believe your a man like myself who would rather pay the extra to get something a little more than to buy cheap

You got it right

With the ram you have, is it 4 sticks or 2? Sometimes swapping out for less ram, will allow a higher overclock and that might help a little but it would mean spending more again, what's the stock voltages for the VCCSA and VCCIO on the 8086k's? (Scratch that, I've just found a link....) Tweaktown's guide for 8700k overclocking... Maybe that might put your mind at ease my good sir?

It is 4 sticks, yeap i am sure if i had just 2 sticks the scenario would be different, i read the guide from the link you posted and from my point of view 1.35V for VCCSA and VCCIO is way too much because after you set that voltage in the Bios when the System has some work to do the 1.35V will increase/spike almost to 1.40V

 

[phill]

You got it right

It is 4 sticks, yeap i am sure if i had just 2 sticks the scenario would be different, i read the guide from the link you posted and from my point of view 1.35V for VCCSA and VCCIO is way too much because after you set that voltage in the Bios when the System has some work to do the 1.35V will increase/spike almost to 1.40V

From what little memory I have (maybe I need an upgrade.... moving on...) from when I was benching, we only ever used two sticks of ram because there was a limit using 4. It stresses the IMC more so on the CPU and in turn requires more voltages for the higher speeds, exactly what we are seeing here I guess this is why we are seeing people sell cherry picked CPUs for that very reason.

Guides are fine but how they test these things are a little different to what we might do, example, open test bench maybe not in a case, airflow and such.. It's a bit of a guess really. But for me, considering the IMC and such that the VCCSA and VCCIO volts are pushing through the CPU, the closer to the limit I'd say the shorter the time that it will take for the CPU to degrade. I wouldn't want to put more than 1.3v on either of those sets of voltages 24/7 and that's with active cooling over and around the CPU.
This is why I run the 5960X so close to stock for these volts, if I damage the IMC the CPU might as well go in the bin.... For £1000 that I paid, I'd rather not damage the CPU at all even though I could replace it at a much lower cost.... I'd never get the same voltage when overclocking as I have right now. Thank god I would buy a Ryzen instead

 

[Enterprise24]

Talking about Ram:

I have always been confused about what is the Max safe Voltage for VCCSA, VCCIO and Ram? some users claim that for VCCSA, VCCIO the max is 1.25V while some others claim below 1.15V but i have seem some users using 1.35V or more, at the end of the day i don't get what is right or what is wrong, the other thing is the Ram voltage, i have read that 1.45V is safe i know there are Ram kits rated 1.45V but those Ram rated 1.35V will they survive 1.45V for 24/7?

It seem that 9th gen require IO and SA more than 8th gen. My friends said they need IO and SA around 0.1V more at the same RAM settings compared to 8th gen.
Considered that we have XMP DDR4-4800 for now in order to run at those frequency 9th gen need around 1.4V IO and 1.45V SA. I am not saying that this is safe for long run but I think this is probably max limit on air / water.

Talking about DRAM voltage that is another story. DDR4 is extremely tough. I am able to bench Samsung B-die at 2-2.05V on air for several hours and several times without degradation (I always ran HCI memtest after extreme bench to check if it was degraded or not).
Even Hynix AFR which I use currently is less voltage tolerance compared to Samsung E-die / B-die but it is happy to run at 1.85V for very long times. Scaling is probably end here as I cannot get more benefit from 1.95V so I didn't bench beyond 1.85V and it still work fine.

I mean after several attempt on 1.85V these cheap OEM kit still stable as rock.