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Getting slow NVME write speeds

Mike B

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Hello All


I have the same issue with my Samsung 980 PRO 500 GB, my other SDD works fine, it’s the Samsung 980 PRO 1TB.

I only noticed the slow write performance after the recent Firmware upgrade to 2B2QGXA7 which was applied yesterday, 19th Feb

Over-provisioning in the Samsung SW and running disk optimise in Windows 10 has had no effect.

For info this drive used to work fine, as the screenshot below shows, write speeds were +5,000 MB/sec

My Setup. ASUS Prime-Pro X570, 32GB RAM, 2xSSD as above, Windows 10, everything checked for latest drivers + FW as of 20th Feb 2021.
screen.jpg
 

fun2k

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I just removed the samsung magician software and amd chipset drivers and my write speed are slowly creeping back up. I suspect its the magicial software causing the cache to not recover.


If you are on intel platform with the same issue just remove the magican software and let the drive idle even after 10min you can see the difference.




Hope this helps everyone.

Update

So after removing both amd chipset drivers and samsung magicial software(this was after i updated the firmware recently) , i downloaded the latest magician software and also (amd chipsets drivers from asus) , reinstalled and it seems to be working fine for now. write cache seems to be recovering if let idle on windows (normal login, no safe mode etc required).
 
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Hi,
Did you try just taking SM off starting with windows first ?
 

fun2k

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Yeah just uninstalled samsung magician again because write speeds have gone back to 11xx mb/s.
Now after removing sm its up 22xx in a short time.

Conclusion: Samsung magician is causing write speed to not recover at all. So just uninstall SM for now.

Update : its not working anymore, it only worked for some time after I uninstalled SM but again the write speeds are stuck at 11xx mb/s even after 1 hours idle time. I hope samsung fixes this issue soon, its annoying.

Ok so I again uninstalled amd chipset drivers this time and my write speed has shot back up to 2250 mb/s for the time being.
I'm Going to keep chipset and sm drivers uninstalled for a while and see if things improves. At least it cant get any worse.
 
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dtkling

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Same problem. I have two identical 980 Pro 500GB. One has degraded write speeds one doesn't. The OS M.2 has write speeds less than my 4 drive SDD Raid. It is in the #1 slot above to the Graphics card on a TUF GAMING X570-PLUS (WI-FI). Both drives started out with the same performance.
 

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fun2k

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I found this from 1 of the review on the 1 tb drives

" the Intelligent TurboWrite region uses idle capacity: if the SSD has less than 324GB remaining free space (1TB model), intelligent TurboWrite will not fully operate, so for best performance, be sure to leave a little wiggle room in the drive"

Could it be possible that just by filing the drive more than a certain percentage say around 95 - 100gb reduces the effectiveness of the cache algorithms on the 500gb drives?

Ive tried everything enable/disable write caching(funny it reduces the write speeds to around 320mb/s) ,uninstalling amd chipset drivers and sm software(temporarily boosted the write speeds somehow).

My last ditch effort to try and reduce used space to less than 100gb and enable thunderbolt on the motherboard options. If that doesn't recover write speeds i am returning this for a sabrent rocket or an sn850. Hopefully those dont have huge performance drops like the 980 pro.
 

Pwablo

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Could it be possible that just by filing the drive more than a certain percentage say around 95 - 100gb reduces the effectiveness of the cache algorithms on the 500gb drives?
This certainly seems to be the case in my experience. If you look back through my posts on this thread you will see what my story was with this device. I used the drive as an OS drive initially (around 90GB used), and the drive speed was fine for a few weeks. At one point I copied around 120GB to the drive as temp storage of binaries, and deleted them shortly after. The drive immediately went into slow write speed mode, and stayed that way with around 90GB used on it. Over a period of a week, the PC was left at idle at the safe-mode login screen, yet the drive still apparently continued to log over 300GB of data being written too itself over 2 days, which I can only assume was the drives internal algorithms shuffling data about. Very weird imo.
I eventually replaced the OS drive with a 1TB WD SN850, did a secure erased on the Samsung 500GB, and now use that as a storage drive. The Secure erase restored the write speeds, and the drive is currently sitting with 162GB used and 313GB free space with stable write speed results.
My conclusion is that when the drive is used as an OS drive, after a period of time the SLC cache becomes saturated with data, possibly due to the "garbage collection" algorithms not working efficiently for some reason (I also tried this with DiskCaching disabled in Win 10 in case this was causing problems, but with no improvement). However when used as a data drive, which is only written too infrequently (e.g. Installing the occasional game), it seems to hold up much better. I have kind of washed my hands of it now...for me the SN850 series NvME's are a whole lot easier to live with and consistently faster all round too.
 

belmirp

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I have recently purchased new system: AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, Gigabyte B550 Aorus Master (F12 BIOS) and Trident Z Neo 3600 CL16 2x16 GB. My system was working fine for 3 weeks, XMP enabled, until I purchased Samsung 980 Pro 1TB. After that, the BIOS started to reset itself, memory was unstable, it was impossible to keep XMP enabled. I've tried everything that I found on the net: adjusting voltage of DDR, enabling/disabling ErP in BIOS, changing Windows power settings, etc. Nothing helped. When I first installed the 980 Pro, right after I installed fresh Windows, I benchmarked it, and as you can see on the screenshot, speeds were a lot lower than claimed (5700/2700). Last thing I did is to disable Gen 4 in the BIOS, and guess what: everything went back to normal, XMP was working, no more resets, and 980 Pro is working consistently but at Gen 3 speeds. As you can see, it easily manages 3500 write, and random read/write is also better. I believe that AMD's implementation of Gen 4 is one horrible mess, and that is affecting the performance of the 980 Pro, in addition to all other problems that many have (like USB disconnecting, BIOS reset, and who knows what else). I still don't have GPU that supports Gen 4, but combination of GPU + NVMe Gen 4 will probably be even worse.

I wish that someone tests 980 Pro on Intel's new chipset that supports Gen 4, I believe it will work as claimed or at least better than AMD.

I had 3 Intel systems before, this is my first AMD system, and last for sure. I only went with AMD because of Gen 4 and future-proofing, but I regret it now, it is not worth. Great hardware without great software is not great.

Samsung 980 Pro Benchmarks PCIe Gen 3 vs 4.jpg
 

SonicMojo

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Wanted to pop into this thread with my scenario - which is not using the 980 but the 970 EVO Plus and I have just as poor (if not worse) performance - let me know what you think of this:

New PC build this past weekend - featuring

  1. ASUS ProArt z490-Creator MOBO
  2. Intel Core™i5 10600K (LGA1200)
  3. 32GB of Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (CMK16GX4M2B3200C16)

For drives - I have:

C:\ - Samsung 970 EVO Plus NVMe M2 SSD (500GB) in M2 slot M2_1 on this board
M:\ - Samsung 860 EVO (SSD) (500GB) in SATA6G_1 (AHCI)
S:\ - Seagate Firecuda (HDD) 1 TB in SATA6G_2 (AHCI)
Z:\ - ASUS DVD ROM on SATA6G_6 (AHCI)

Per the ProArt manual :

M2 slot M2_1 on this board runs natively at PCIe x4 - with a compliant M2 (single notch) (NVMe) drive attached. If a SATA keyed (two notch) drive is attached (SATA mode) - port SATA6G_2 will be disabled.

This port is NOT using a SATA M2 devices. By all accounts - my 970 should be running a normal PCIex4 speed (Magician says it is below) and the 860 should be running in normal AHCI (SATA) mode and it is.

I have installed the Samsung NMVe 3.3 driver and the recommended AHCI/SATA driver for this board (v18.31.5.1038 WHQL)

However - after the build - this thing is horrific to use. The PC is choppy, pokey and takes easily 2 minutes to both shutdown and restart.

Samsung Magician is reporting that both drives are running at the right speeds with the right drivers. Here is the NMVe (C:\):



And the 860 (my M:\ (Media) drive:



But CrystalDiskMark is telling me a whole different negative story:

The 970 (C Drive) is brutal



This should be averaging around 3000?

and the 860 (M Drive) feels like it is almost stopped



And to add insult to injury - How's this for a comparison:

Just before I popped into this thread - I ran a Magician performance benchmark on the machine I am typing this on - which is a circa 2015 ASUS Z97-A-USB31 (LGA1150) with an Intel Core i7-4790K and a 2019 era Samsung 860 EVO Series SSD (250GB) - check out these numbers for this machine compared to my "should be super computer Circa 2021":



It's embarrassing. This 2019 EVO on this broken down 6 year old board is running 300% faster than a brand new M2 in a brand new z490 board? Makes no sense.

I am truly drawing a blank and do not know what I am missing here. Everything seems to be connected and set right. Unless the resource sharing is 100% wrong in the manual

Appreciate any tips from the field.

Cheers!

Sonic.
 
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I found this from 1 of the review on the 1 tb drives

" the Intelligent TurboWrite region uses idle capacity: if the SSD has less than 324GB remaining free space (1TB model), intelligent TurboWrite will not fully operate, so for best performance, be sure to leave a little wiggle room in the drive"

Could it be possible that just by filing the drive more than a certain percentage say around 95 - 100gb reduces the effectiveness of the cache algorithms on the 500gb drives?

Ive tried everything enable/disable write caching(funny it reduces the write speeds to around 320mb/s) ,uninstalling amd chipset drivers and sm software(temporarily boosted the write speeds somehow).

My last ditch effort to try and reduce used space to less than 100gb and enable thunderbolt on the motherboard options. If that doesn't recover write speeds i am returning this for a sabrent rocket or an sn850. Hopefully those dont have huge performance drops like the 980 pro.

Not from what I've seen.

My 980 1TB is currently at 185GB free and reports full speed. My 980 500GB last month was also reporting full speed but now is back reporting 1/4 or so write speed at 328GB free. The percentage difference in free space between the two is massive, yet the lower free space drive is fine...

Between when it was fine last month and now, there's been a firmware update. The only change to the software/system.
 

belmirp

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@SonicMojo Samsung 860 Evo is SATA3 drive, the speeds that you were seeing were not actual speeds of the drive probably because you turned RAPID mode. When RAPID mode is turned on, I get these speeds on Samsung 850 Pro, and they should be around 550 MB:
Samsung 850 Pro RAPID.png

Samsung 850 Pro.png



However, 970 Evo is Gen 3 drive, and it should max out at 3500/2500 MB/s.
 

SonicMojo

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This issue has been solved (sort of). Realized after about 2 days that I still had Driver Verifier turned on. :kookoo:

After shutting that down - I am getting psuedo normal speeds for the 970 - but the 860 is still acting strange (and slow).

Back to the drawing board.

Cheers

Sonic.
 
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I sent in an email to Samsung support and this was the hilarious reply...

"Thank you for contacting Samsung Memory Support.

Please note that to achieve the full performance of the 980 PRO, you need a PC with a PCIe 4.0 interface

Refer to the Samsung website for detailed specification for this model:

https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/ssd/product/consumer/980pro/

Powered by Samsung custom Elpis Controller for PCIe 4.0 SSD, the 980 PRO is optimized for speed. It delivers read speeds up to 7,000 MB/s, making it 2 times faster than PCIe 3.0 SSDs and 12.7 times faster than SATA SSDs. The 980 PRO achieves max speeds on PCIe 4.0 and may vary in other environments.

Unfortunately we cannot confirm whether your mainboard fully supports drives with a PCIe 4.0 interface.

Please contact MSI Support to confirm.

Please note, however, that the 980 PRO is backwards compatible with PCIe 3.0 - for a wide range of uses.

However, we cannot guarantee that it will work properly on any system without a PCie 4.0 interface. Of course, the hard drive speed will also be much worse.

If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us."


Of course, I had clearly stated my hardware and of course, it's PCIe x4. I've gone back with more detail, so hopefully they won't kneejerk a bot reply out again. Will keep this updated.
 

belmirp

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I don't know if they choose the most stupid people for support at each company or it is something else. I am contacting Gigabyte support for almost a month, and they are super retarded. I clearly say in the ticket: "I have ram that is on my motherboard QVL", and the first they reply (after 10 days) they ask: "Did you check whether your ram is on QVL list?". And Samsung isn't any better, I know it because I tried to contact support once because of an issue with Galaxy S7/Android.
 

Ahhzz

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This morning Samsung pushed 6.3.0 version of Magician, and it has a new option Full Power Mode:
...

It works wonders:
...

Sound good, I'll have to give it a try :)
 

spykeer

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1616080609705.png


Same problem Here...

CrossHair VIII Hero > Gen 4 Supported
5950x > Gen 4 Supported
AMD Drivers Up to Date via AMD Website
BIOS Up To Date Last Version
Gen 4 Forced On M2 Slot
980 Pro 500GB Used As System Drive
Samsung Magician Up to date
SSD Firmware Up to Date


40% Full Of Data So Empty Room.
Over Provisioning Enabled

If I enable the new Full power Mode, i got a 300mb/S drop.. (The 2nd test on my Screenshot)

I mean... Why the fuck this 'Intelligent' Cache TurboWrite can't clear his data, to work as expected?
I don't want to re-install windows/apps, with a secure erase just to recover the expected speeds...

Is there any way to wipe only this shitty cache ? Because, i let my PC Idle 24 hours, and still no change on speeds.

PLS Samsung, just do something about that, buying this thing at this price... When my fresh 870 Evo can do theses things (Ok RAPID Mode shit, but ...)


1616080966967.png
 

Ahhzz

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Well, my 860 Eve doesn't support the "Full Power" mode, but I did the upgrade anyway. Thought I had a bench from before, but couldn't locate it after I updated heheh. Oh well, running ok for the model it is, I guess.
 
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Curious as to what impact that the slower write speed has had with regard to any observed impacts on application performance ?

The reason I ask is that had a call from one of our users who was looking at his backup logs, who observed that "doing the math" his incremental backups each night while just a few seconds up to maybe 2 minutes at times, looking at the amount of data he backed up, it was at a rate much lower than advertised speeds. I explained that the software has to make alog of all the files , check the dates, determine what's changed, make a "shadow copy", replace the changed files, cretae alog and then go back and test to see whether the file copy was accurate.... there's a lot more going on than justbafile copy. But also, as these backups were being performed while he was sleeping, not that it's perhaps not worth concerning ones self about.

When I observe such performance issues, I like to categorize them into:

a) It's impacting my work efficiency or user experience
b) It's not doing the above but I still wanna know why.
c) It's isolated and evident only in benchmarks or 0 impact activities, and therefore don't care.

If it's a) solving the issue is given high priority ... If it's b) ... it's kind a back burner thing saved for a rainy day ... if it's c) everyone once and a while I will search for topics more out of curiosity then a desire to solve a problem that has 0 impact. The backup thing while sleeping would be a c)

I don't know if they choose the most stupid people for support at each company or it is something else. I am contacting Gigabyte support for almost a month, and they are super retarded. I clearly say in the ticket: "I have ram that is on my motherboard QVL", and the first they reply (after 10 days) they ask: "Did you check whether your ram is on QVL list?". And Samsung isn't any better, I know it because I tried to contact support once because of an issue with Galaxy S7/Android.

Is it a real person ?

I keep getting personal responses from Asus regarding my router. Note: This strats with an e-mail report where I teall them that I am having an issue with the USB ports on the router that are supposed to let you turn any printer into a network printer.

a) All PCs are wired ethernet connections to the router
b) All Printers are wired ethernet connections to the router, (2) Ethernet (MFP and Large format plotter) and (1) USB photo printer connected to USB Printer ports on router

The illustrations and descriptions in the MFP and printer manuals bear only a vague resemblance to what is on the screen. I can sometimes get this to work from 1 PC, but never a 2nd, 3rd etc.

Every email response starts with the respondent identifying themselves as say Bob, James, Bill..etc. The rest of the responses has slight chnages mostky in order of sencentez but all say the same thing. Just liek the scripts you get from telemarketers, and email scammers.

They all then say that if i follow the instructions below, they will be able to get me "on the internet"

1. One would think that since they rec'd an email, Im already on the internet.
2. One would think that if they read the email, they would have read one of the 12

***** "Remember again, I have no issues getting on the internet****

..... statements I type after every 2 sentence paragraphs.

And yet, evey email closes with instructions as to how to get on the internet and not a word about network printing.
 
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So Samsungs support was useless. Utterly useless. Several bot responses, nothing worthwhile. The last point they made was to return the hardware under RMA, which I instigated but now even that is in question because to return it, I have to Secure Erase it and if I Secure Erase it, that might fix the write speed problem. They'll test it, see no issue and send it back.

So rather than mess about like that I've bought an 850 1TB to replace as the OS drive and this 980 Pro 500GB can go into the PS5 when they open up NVME additional drive support.

I believe the 980 Pro 500GB is unfit for purpose as an OS drive. Something about the logic on clearing up doesn't work right when the OS is involved, it's far too hit and miss (far more miss) and I outright refuse to Secure Erase an OS drive every time it decides to drop write speeds to 25%.

No more Samsung hardware for me, time to move on.
 
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fun2k

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So Samsungs support was useless. Utterly useless. Several bot responses, nothing worthwhile. The last point they made was to return the hardware under RMA, which I instigated but now even that is in question because to return it, I have to Secure Erase it and if I Secure Erase it, that might fix the write speed problem. They'll test it, see no issue and send it back.

So rather than mess about like that I've bought an 850 1TB to replace as the OS drive and this 980 Pro 500GB can go into the PS5 when they open up NVME additional drive support.

I believe the 980 Pro 500GB is unfit for purpose as an OS drive. Something about the logic on clearing up doesn't work right when the OS is involved, it's far too hit and miss (far more miss) and I outright refuse to Secure Erase an OS drive every time it decides to drop write speeds to 25%.

No more Samsung hardware for me, time to move on.
Im also thinking of replacing the 980 500gb with 1tb 850. And will use the 950 pro as an external usb/thunderbolt drive. I dont know yet if some of these 950 pro have fault or all of them behave the same way after a certain amount of usage. its a pity, the drive works great as an os drive and you dont really see a difference unless transferring a lot of data but this its still way off the advertised speeds.

What would be the best way to copy my os (on 500gb 980) to a new drive (say 850 1tb).
 
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Im also thinking of replacing the 980 500gb with 1tb 850. And will use the 950 pro as an external usb/thunderbolt drive. I dont know yet if some of these 950 pro have fault or all of them behave the same way after a certain amount of usage. its a pity, the drive works great as an os drive and you dont really see a difference unless transferring a lot of data but this its still way off the advertised speeds.

What would be the best way to copy my os (on 500gb 980) to a new drive (say 850 1tb).

Hold that thought, the 850 is in but its running at 3000 write, so its also underperforming but nowhere near as bad as the 980. WD know there's some sort of problem with NVMEs running potentially on chipset lanes, which could end up being part of the problem.

I'm now updating this thread ....https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/wd-sn850-slower-than-expected-performance.278121/page-5

To copy, grab Macrium Free and clone the 980 drive, then make a Macrium USB stick, boot to that, navigate to the drive that has the clone image and restore off that onto the 850.
 

Spock Grocker

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At least Samsung is apparently acknowledging this issue, now. Still no progress beyond that from what I can tell, but I guess that's something. Here's a link to the US Samsung community page about this issue:


At the bottom of page 2 of the exchanges is a post from someone designated "Memory Product Expert-1" 2 weeks ago:

Hello Samsung Community Users,
"We apologize for any inconvenience caused by the symptoms of not recovering write performance, since the turbo write area of 980 PRO is being exhausted.
Samsung is investigating these symptoms and will keep you posted on our progress. We appreciate your patience while we work on resolving the issue.
Thank you for contacting Samsung Community Support and we value your feedback."
 

spykeer

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Joined
Mar 18, 2021
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Oh yes! Just after my message on their forums. Cool to know. Hope they will fix it soon.
 
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