Have AIOs killed custom loops?

[wheresmycar]

Wow, I'm starting to get close to 20 years out of one of my D5 pumps, it was called a Swifttech MCP-655 back then. Was purchased around 2007 and still going strong.

View attachment 333630

wow, that pre-dates my entry into DIY builds by 4/5 years at a time I didn't even know liquid cooling was a thing. Actually i still didn't catch on until probably 10+ years ago. Spent 5 years considering a custom loop and eventually gave up and opted for a AIO in 2016/17 (lol). I still find myself occasionally drooling over the LOOPERS but dunno, with overclocking CPUs for more favourable rewards out of the window and finding 'some' of that aesthetic appeal from AIOs and fancy looking GPUs i'm less thirsty and but less thirsty.

 

[Outback Bronze]

wow, that pre-dates my entry into DIY builds by 4/5 years

You'll love this then:



This was purchased around 2004 Socket 478 for a Pentium 4. Probably belongs in a PC water cooling museum.

Back then I couldn't even swap out parts for it as nothing else third party was available.

That old pump was starting to make a racket of a noise, that's when I was able to purchase the Swiftech MCP-655 and swap it out.

I later modified the block to fit 775 but it was around then new blocks started coming out and well, here we are today with a plethora of options available.

 

[cvaldes]

Sorry, I have not read all 17+ pages of replies.

First of all, there is a plethora of thermal solutions in 2024 that didn't exist twenty years ago so there is growth and developments in multiple areas. The components are better and more reliable. Manufacturing tolerances are tighter. More care has been put into acoustic performance (especially fans) and power efficiency (I am specifically addressing thermal solutions).

There are more custom loop components on the market today than even 5-6 years ago so clearly there's a market for them. This is not just the high end, there are more affordable brands like Barrow and Bykski in addition to the premium names like EKWB.

Same with the AIO market, there are more players on the market today than before the pandemic and not everyone has slapped their logo on a Asetek cooling block and pushed it onto the loading dock. They are more reliable and there is a greater variety of products at different price points with varying capabilities (and warranty coverage).

If AIOs truly had "killed custom loops" [sic], companies like EKWB, Alphacool, and others would have suspended operations or shifted entirely to the commercial space, neither of which have happened.

One thing for sure: GPUs generate far more heat than they did five years ago. This is the main advantage of custom cooling loops in 2024. Any consumer CPU can be cooled by a decent 360mm AIO but the GPU is another story. In my experience a graphics card under a full-length waterblock in a custom cooling loop is *FAR* quieter than the factory air cooler. And the temps stay way cooler too.

This is not an all-or-nothing proposition either. Like a handful of people here, I have several builds. My primary gaming build does indeed have a custom cooling loop. I used to have a secondary build also with a custom loop. There are other systems under my roof with AIO CPU coolers (of different sizes) as well as air-cooled systems (like the daily driver Mac and Windows PC, the former is listed in my system specs).

I can't be bothered to shell out the cash/time/maintenance for a custom cooling loop for every single computer I use. But I have fun dabbling with the one build I have that uses these special and pricey components.

For sure, a CPU cooling block can often be used on multiple builds. You can't really do that with a GPU waterblock, those are custom designed for specific PCBs.

And yes, I have also used the NZXT Kraken G2 hack (it really is a hack) to put a certain Asetek cooling block on the GPU die. It works pretty good but it doesn't address the VRM/VRAM. It's also a bulky ugly kludge and figuring out how to control the fan speed often requires some creativity.

One thing about CPU AIO radiators (that are top mounted and exhausting outside) is that you are not introducing any additional heat inside the case. This means that the case fans can run at slower speeds and mostly need to deal with the heat generated from the GPU (and other components to a lesser extent).

 

[Zach_01]

It really depends on how you use an AIO, if you give it an easy life with a low tdp it should last awhile. If you are using a clocked up fire breathing dragon running F@H or something all the time, you should be able to get at least a year out of it

True, but 1year seems short time to me.
Have mine for 6.5+ years now. Summer 2017.
H110i 280mm purchased for 135€ on my local EU market and still going well.
The first 2 years was installed on a OCed ~200W CPU and did some F@H back then for 1-1.5 years. From summer 2019 on a 3600 (50-70W) typical gaming power. From summer 2022 on my current 5900X that does no productivity tasks. I only need occasionally (for VMs) more cores and for gaming (~100W typically).
As said already on early post, has probably over 50K hours on its back but only a very small fraction of that time it worked on full pump speed. Always cared about water temp and tried to keep it under 40C, successfully I may add. And rad position was also my concern after the first couple of years. Above block and in a way that any inside bubbling can’t reach block/pump.
Thinking of replacing it not for better performance necessarily or for RGB (couldn’t care less), but for reliability at this point.
Still need my 5900X to last for at least 1year more before I jump to AM5.
A 420mm most likely as spece is not of an issue and also be prepared for a much higher TDP CPU.
Not that the 420s are so much better than 280/360s but I like low noise too if possible.

Custom loops have their own value in performance and noise, no doubt, but not willing to spend time and money on them. I prefer a solution that works well with minimum effort.

 

[freeagent]

True, but 1year seems short time to me

I am going by my experience with the original H100, which I ran with an x5690 ES. I was usually around 4400MHz at 1.4v or 4500 with 1.45v and I got 14 months of solid service before it started to taper off. By the time I quit using it I was at stock voltage lol. I have it to my brother to cool his 7700K and it did not cool it. This Thermalright one is light years better. It has a strong pump, awesome clamping pressure and the pump itself is fairly quiet, I run it at full speed so it sound a bit like a regular type case fan.. anyways I’m at work I gotta go lol

 

[lexluthermiester]

You'll love this then:

View attachment 333632

This was purchased around 2004 Socket 478 for a Pentium 4. Probably belongs in a PC water cooling museum.

Back then I couldn't even swap out parts for it as nothing else third party was available.

That old pump was starting to make a racket of a noise, that's when I was able to purchase the Swiftech MCP-655 and swap it out.

I later modified the block to fit 775 but it was around then new blocks started coming out and well, here we are today with a plethora of options available.

Aww, THAT takes me back! This was one of the nice kits BITD. Does it still work?

 

[wheresmycar]

You'll love this then:

View attachment 333632

This was purchased around 2004 Socket 478 for a Pentium 4. Probably belongs in a PC water cooling museum.

Back then I couldn't even swap out parts for it as nothing else third party was available.

That old pump was starting to make a racket of a noise, that's when I was able to purchase the Swiftech MCP-655 and swap it out.

I later modified the block to fit 775 but it was around then new blocks started coming out and well, here we are today with a plethora of options available.

Museum participant maybe but surprisingly for a 20 yr aged loop these are some pretty nifty looking parts. I've got a thing for industrial-type or retro aesthetics with plain-ole metal skin opposed to paint or plastic. If you've got a pic with the loop in action, please share Funny enough, i like loops with those industrial metal pipes too and i was just viewing and drooling over someone's build in one of TPU's recent thread postings.

 

[Outback Bronze]

Aww, THAT takes me back! This was one of the nice kits BITD. Does it still work?

Hmm, it's the pump that's iffy. It works but makes a hell of a noise or well it did so when I finally decommissioned it around 2007. It's the main reason I had to swap it out. You'll see I ripped off some plastic on the side to try and make it stop rattling so much which in hindsight wish I really haven't of done so but I was only 24 years old back then and didn't give a rats as the sound was driving me crazy but yes, it probably still works. My mates would come around and say, "what's that noise"..

Museum participant maybe but surprisingly for a 20 yr aged loop these are some pretty nifty looking parts. I've got a thing for industrial-type or retro aesthetics with plain-ole metal skin opposed to paint or plastic. If you've got a pic with the loop in action, please share Funny enough, i like loops with those industrial metal pipes too and i was just viewing and drooling over someone's build in one of TPU's recent thread postings.

The tubing size has to be dead on, so back when I had the kit, when I would change cases, it was hard to get the same size tubing for it that originally came with. I really wish I had of kept the original retail box it came in. Was a beautiful sight!

The original kit also came with two different tubing sizes which you probably won't see this day and age. If you can zoom in on the res you'll see the different sizes, so this made it even trickier.

Maybe one day ill fire her up and see if she still works. It mainly the pump I have to worry about and that 120mm fan on the rad is the original one that it was supplied with so I'm glad I didn't ditch that.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Hmm, it's the pump that's iffy. It works but makes a hell of a noise or well it did so when I finally decommissioned it around 2007.

Remind me, is it a floating barring or a fixed shaft type? I can't remember when they came out with the floating type and can't remember if that model had one. If it's the fixed shaft, you might be able to restore it by re-greasing the impeller/rotor shaft barring. Wouldn't be difficult.

 

[Nereus]

Wow, I'm starting to get close to 20 years out of one of my D5 pumps, it was called a Swifttech MCP-655 back then. Was purchased around 2007 and still going strong.

View attachment 333630

Nice. Is that the one with the little variable speed control on the pump that you adjust with a flathead screwdriver? If it is, I had one of those years back. Solid pump.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Custom over TEC over lidless 2700x. (2019)

 

[Outback Bronze]

Nice. Is that the one with the little variable speed control on the pump that you adjust with a flathead screwdriver? If it is, I had one of those years back. Solid pump.

Nope, they didn't even have them back then. Just Molex power where the speed went flat out : )

 

[dgianstefani]

Nope, they didn't even have them back then. Just Molex power where the speed went flat out : )

PWM controlled is better anyway, the vario switches are points of failure.

 

[Brotato]

Sort of.
If the goal is to have better than air / on par with top tier air cooler, they have replaced custom loops...the performance delta is there but it's not something like a 20C drop.
For argument's sake, I'm leaving direct die out of the conversation...but that would be a valid point to get that 20C drop.

For the cost of a premium watercooling setup, you could buy multiple AIOs over and over again. A high end waterblock for new CPU sockets cost almost as much as an entire AIO.

I spent...way too much on my loop.

If this was just to cool my GPU down in my stupidly hot room (95F during the day) an alphacool eiswolf 2 AIO would have done the trick...and is expandable to a full loop if i wanted to. Could have purchased that plus an RTX 4090 for what I spent...on my loop..

CPU-wise? Arctic Liquid freezer 2 or 3 420. I use an external rad and a bench so a 420 would fit anywhere. Inexpensive, cheaper than an EK or Optimus block, 6 year warranty. Fans included. Very quiet.

The other consideration is the time and effort spent on researching all the parts for a custom loop. putting it together wrong...at times. being angry at it putting it together wrong...putting it together again, etc plus yearly maintenance.

 

[Ruru]

Hardtube loop here. I'd say no again.

 

[A Computer Guy]

PWM controlled is better anyway, the vario switches are points of failure.

Just curious. What is the downside of vario?

 

[freeagent]

Hardtube loop here. I'd say no again.

Then why do you have to run with stock or lower than stock power limits

 

[dgianstefani]

Just curious. What is the downside of vario?

It's a mechanical point of failure and cannot be controlled with software. How often do you think you will want to reach down into case and change a tiny control?

 

[A Computer Guy]

It's a mechanical point of failure and cannot be controlled with software. How often do you think you will want to reach down into case and change a tiny control?

Oh. I thought those were just meant to set to a fixed speed for a particular installation.

 

[AVATARAT]

That's an interesting question
The short answer is YES, AIO kill Custom Loops (CL).

The price of the AIOs become really low.
For CPUs under 150-200w, there is really no need for a CL.
CPUs 250-320w for gaming AIO can handle it again.
For maximum performance or "see how nice is my PC" - yeah CL is needed
For CPU+GPU, yeah the best way is CL but that's not so popular nowadays. But video cards today have locked power limits and very good air coolers, so it's a bit pointless for a few % perf. to water-cool them and to lose the warranty.

Do I prefer CL - yes.

 

[Kapone33]

That's an interesting question
The short answer is YES, AIO kill Custom Loops (CL).

The price of the AIOs become really low.
For CPUs under 150-200w, there is really no need for a CL.
CPUs 250-320w for gaming AIO can handle it again.
For maximum performance or "see how nice is my PC" - yeah CL is needed
For CPU+GPU, yeah the best way is CL but that's not so popular nowadays. But video cards today have locked power limits and very good air coolers, so it's a bit pointless for a few % perf. to water-cool them and to lose the warranty.

Do I prefer CL - yes.

If you have no intention of changing your parts creating a CL can be rewarding. Where I see it for GPUs is the effect putting a block on has. First thing is single slot support for more access to the MB. Then there is the availability of GPU blocks on the market. Companies that are in WC for the last 5 years like Corsair or Byiski have been making blocks for as many GPUs as they can with even budget class cards getting WB support today. For CPUs AIOs are defacto. You can get a Thermalright 360 for like $70 Canadian that will handle any CPU. Let's remember that the Frio OCK could do 250 Watts on the box.

I myself (I have said it before) use Alphacool quick connect tubing and that stuff extrudes uber convenience. So when I got my 7900XTX I bought the Alphacool block and a few Quick Connect Cables. During install something foolish happened but GN was doing their Newegg investigation so I was able to get a full refund from them. By that time the 7900XT had launched and was $400 cheaper than the XTX. When the card arrived it fit the block with the exception of the spot for one of the bottom RAM modules that is missing from the XT. That took adding a thicker pad to work properly.

These new GPUs have large shrouds but once those fans start spinning up you will remmeber why the WC industry for PC started anyway.

 

[dont whant to set it"']

No, It may have stung deep and hard the custom lopp market of manufacturers , wording from personal experience with a mix of air tower rigs and a custom WC one with parts for at least another.

Air cooling for peace of mind, once cooler seated proper *tim: if the fan cactuses > replace fan.

Custom watercooled main rig @200Watt in the most demanding scenarios from me,setup that I will change soon from two independent loops to one loop for both mb-cpu monoblock and graphics card, with two stand-alone passive radiators.

 

[Ferrum Master]

Bullshit. Custom loops had always been a matter if you can maintain it and how straight your hands are. It is not a choice for all people.

My oldest parts in my loop are over 10 years. Tank(quartz glass), rads, some fittings... if you think it is expensive, yes if you start from nothing.

I have upgraded slowly year to year, with no BS. I used to go EK, but understood they are same overpriced crap, last thing I bought was CPU monoblock and it cracked, RMAd and redid the design adding washers and china GPU blocks perform same with like half price, they are totally fine. Same goes for fittings. I do not do hard tubing, find it gimmicky and not to my taste, just as I absolutely find distro plates useless, they create more clutter and fail points.

To be fair my last upgrades are fans, retiring my Typhoons, T30 cost a lot, but damn they are good. But this upgrade cost would apply to both, AIO and CL users.

My point of the system is low noise, very large heat capacity. No AIO can give me that. Looking at GPU power envelope trends... how AIO solves that?

 

[Nereus]

To be fair my last upgrades are fans, retiring my Typhoons, T30 cost a lot, but damn they are good. But this upgrade cost would apply to both, AIO and CL users.

My point of the system is low noise, very large heat capacity. No AIO can give me that. Looking at GPU power envelope trends... how AIO solves that?

Have a look at the be quiet! Silent Wings Pro 4 PWM fans. I have the 120mm ones on my radiators - great static pressure / noise ratio. Specs:

Model BL098 (black) or BL118 (white).
5.31 mmH2O which is awesome for radiator fans.
83.9 CFM.
3000 rpm at 100%.
36.9 dB(A) at 100%, which is still relatively loud, but the curve drops rapidly so most of the time they are very quiet for the amount of air they push through the radiators.
No bling. Just serious fans.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Have a look at the be quiet! Silent Wings Pro 4 PWM fans. I have the 120mm ones on my radiators - great static pressure / noise ratio. Specs:

Model BL098 (black) or BL118 (white).
5.31 mmH2O which is awesome for radiator fans.
83.9 CFM.
3000 rpm at 100%.
36.9 dB(A) at 100%, which is still relatively loud, but the curve drops rapidly so most of the time they are very quiet for the amount of air they push through the radiators.
No bling. Just serious fans.

How serious?

I have a few AFB1212SHE Deltas. They are good for 150cfm with a static pressure of 14.50 mmH2O

https://www.delta-fan.com/Download/Spec/AFB1212SHE.pdf

These MUST be caged. At 3700 rpm, it'll take finger tips straight off. Not a joke.