Have AIOs killed custom loops?

[ShrimpBrime]

Measuring and cutting them sucks...

So thats PETG tubing correct? I've read it's not super terrible to work with. I suppose measuring would be because you need to add a little for the fittings right?

Do you use a pipe bender on the bench for nice straight curves? Or just eyeball it?

 

[Ruru]

So thats PETG tubing correct? I've read it's not super terrible to work with. I suppose measuring would be because you need to add a little for the fittings right?

Do you use a pipe bender on the bench for nice straight curves? Or just eyeball it?

Yup PETG

Measured with eyeball, bought a tool tho

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Yup PETG

Measured with eyeball, bought a tool tho

Well, it looks pretty good. You did a nice job with it. One of those skills that takes practice ya know? No leaks is what really matters.

 

[Ruru]

Well, it looks pretty good. You did a nice job with it. One of those skills that takes practice ya know? No leaks is what really matters.

Thanks

 

[INSTG8R]

Well…I’m a bit of an odd duck here. I’m still running a TT Kandalf LCS from 2007. It’s had at least 5 different builds in now and all I’ve done is replaced the block as needed(of course tubing along the way) I swore when the pump died I’d retire it but I just can’t let go of that full copper 360 rad that‘s always kept everything cool. Well the pump did die(I actually I killed it being hamfisted) Welp I just grabbed an EK DDC pump/res(cute little thing) back to business as usual. I guess a month or so ago I replaced the original 1300rpm 2pin fans with a 3 pack of Magflows. So really the only original WC part left is the rad.
I mean I did the “full Monty“ https://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/471/details but never again BTW that external cooler is Asetek when they actually built stuff instead of patent trolling. So,my current setup is really just a glorified custom AIO ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Rig pic and I cant help but show off my cute little pump/res…

 

[Vya Domus]

1,750,000 users with custom loops.

Even very popular brands report shipping very small volumes of water blocks for example, even for very popular CPUs/GPUs, we're talking a few thousands at most. Just a few months ago there was news about EK not being able to sell stocks of blocks that were only a couple of hundreds I think. That's why some of them even offer to build a water block specific for your GPU if you send it to them, if they don't already make one. It's because they'd sell so few of them they simply don't bother to buy that model themselves and create an existing stock for it, think about that.

Custom loops are an extremely niche segment, my guess is that there are probably not even 100 000 active users globally. Even on this forum, I think I've only seen like 2 dozens users that list custom loops in their system specs, I think people severely overestimate the size of this market segment.

 

[INSTG8R]

Even very popular brands report shipping very small volumes of water blocks for example, even for very popular CPUs/GPUs, we're talking a few thousands at most. Just a few months ago there was news about EK not being able to sell stocks of blocks that were only a couple of hundreds I think.

Custom loops are an extremely niche segment, my guess is that there are probably not even 100 000 active users globally. Even on this forum, I think I've only seen like 2 dozens users that list custom loops in their system specs, I think people severely overestimate the size of this market segment.

Well I know someone who definitely overestimated….EK as we have recently seen it burn them. I mean I use EK mainly because they do make quality gear and are easily accessible for me. Their mistake was literally producing so many SKUs there just wasn’t enough of a market for. I’m a former CNC machinist so I know what it takes to design and produce this kind of thing and it’s not cheap.

 

[gurusmi]

It seems that you only look at the private sector. In Business especially at datacenters you want to have the produced heat away from the servers. And that can only be guaranteed with a custom loop. Only there you can have a radiator i.e. on top of the roof transferring the heat from water to the environmental air and so out of the building. Exactly thart is the reason i have all SSDs, RAM, GPU and CPU under water. Only with that i can have a cooler inner case. The heat is (in my case) taken by the water and transferred to the air at the end/border of my case. If i won't do that i can expect a continuous throtling of my hardware.

One can put all the heat into the ambient air and transfer that heat into a waterdriven climate system. Or one connects all the cooling loops of that servers directly to the outside. If one searches on google fpr "data centre watercooling" one will find a lot of suppliers.

 

[Vya Domus]

It seems that you only look at the private sector. In Business especially at datacenters you want to have the produced heat away from the servers

Of course but I am pretty sure nobody here was talking about the industrial sector, the discussion seems solely focused on regular consumers.

 

[wheresmycar]

Have AIOs killed custom loops?

IMO, custom loops have always been a personal preference for aesthetics and/or pushing the performance envelope a little higher for the OC/perf enthusiasts. Then theres the specialized bunch who take it to the next level with a deep appreciation for artistic masterpieces at any cost. I've always admired this sort of work. I like building stuff... maybe its the bob the builder in some of us which encourages CLs. Sadly for me, the cost was never justified and the bundled-in complexity/maintenance was enough to keep me on the CL window shoppers bench. I still occasionally check completed builds with custom loops which triggers the short-lived "perhaps one day" plan of action. Its got harder with reasonably priced and widely available 360mm/+ AIOs.

In my view, i don't believe AIOs have killed the custom loop club - although I do "suspect" some/potential custom loopers may have shifted over to a more affordable and zero hassle AIO approach.

 

[gurusmi]

Of course but I am pretty sure nobody here was talking about the industrial sector, the discussion seems solely focused on regular consumers.

In my eyes one should include the industrial environment to anser the Question. Because the private sector is only a small branch of the whole story.

 

[eidairaman1]

Thanks

I think i will stay with flex tubes, if I need an elbow I will use it

 

[Brotato]

Of course but I am pretty sure nobody here was talking about the industrial sector, the discussion seems solely focused on regular consumers.

Agreed. Plus I don’t believe AIOs have ever been a thing in datacenters. It’s been almost 12 years since I did work in a datacenter so I could be wrong. It would have been awesome if AIOs for rack mount did exist back then. The 1U HP DL360s gen 1 were fucking deafening

 

[chrcoluk]

When opening my case today just looking at the noctua it was like urrgh, too damn big really, covering up too much stuff. Previously I didnt care for this stuff, but now it matters to me. However I dont know when I will put in an AIO as I am not particularly motivated to do the work. Also still that bit of concern about the issues they can have, whilst air cooling is really reliable.

 

[phill]

Maybe a little later to the party but thought I'd just give my 1p worth...

I've all 3 at home, I'm on air with some systems, AIOs with a few others and custom loops as well with my main PC..

From the air and AIO, to be honest I can't really find a difference. The air coolers I've bought recently thanks to @freeagent have been amazing. Even at £42 when I first grabbed some, they where cheap and decent, but I've grabbed a couple not too long ago and they'd dropped nearly £15 down to £28 for the same cooler!! I've got one running on one of my i9 7980XE, a 2700X's, a 3900X, a 5800X and a 5900X. I've AIO's running on my another 3900X, a 3950X, a 5900X, a 5950X and a i7 8086k (I think its an i7??) too... The temp differences between the 3900X's are minimal, same goes for the 5900X's. The 7980XE seems to be much better with re-pasting my delidded CPU as it was hitting 70C under load, then 80C after a bios update... Since then after a re-paste for the de-lid (only some MX-2 stuff) it was down to 60C.. With temps being a little higher, I've seen it hitting 80C, it is at stock for the moment, I think standard voltage as well...

The AIO's I use are a NZXT Z63 and an EVGA 280mm model as well. The air coolers are the Thermalright coolers. I use a custom water cooled loop for my 3970X Threadripper which is on a slightly tweaked voltage, I think 1.15vcore or somewhere abouts, that has a Heatkiller nickle CPU block with a 560mm GTX rad with some 2000rpm Vadar fans I think (they might be the 3000rpm models, I'll check my project thread from my sig as I can't remember but with that under a full load today, it was hitting about 50C to 55C after 30 minutes of 100% usage for WCG... The fans are not set to maximum speeds either. I'd guestimate about 50%?

Custom loops are crazy money compared to what they used to be, I remember getting EK water blocks for £25 to £35 new, rads used to be about £80 to £100 for a triple model, pump/res combo maybe £100 to £150 at worst but now, I think some might be closer to £300... Depending on the reason for custom loops, the cost might be worth it. For myself, the overkill build needed an overkill cooling solution, so I've a loop for the CPU and a separate identical one for the GPU. I think they work together very well

But getting a little more back on point, I do wonder why I bothered with the AIOs as they aren't the most flexible so to speak and I used to think oh AIOs easier with RAM heights but most of the air coolers now have zero issues with it... I also thought that for fitting around the RAM the AIOs would be easier but with the tubes coming out the size of the pump from the X63's you do need to think about where your putting them for in the wrong place, they'll cover the first RAM slot, which isn't a blind bit of help for those with 4 DIMM slots to fill.....

So for me, £30 for a cooler, instead of £100 or more for an AIO and that it will cool it maybe a 1C better or so, I just don't see the appeal... Custom is mostly for looks, want or to help tame a 400w CPU beast...

 

[Brotato]

Maybe a little later to the party but thought I'd just give my 1p worth...

I've all 3 at home, I'm on air with some systems, AIOs with a few others and custom loops as well with my main PC..

From the air and AIO, to be honest I can't really find a difference. The air coolers I've bought recently thanks to @freeagent have been amazing. Even at £42 when I first grabbed some, they where cheap and decent, but I've grabbed a couple not too long ago and they'd dropped nearly £15 down to £28 for the same cooler!! I've got one running on one of my i9 7980XE, a 2700X's, a 3900X, a 5800X and a 5900X. I've AIO's running on my another 3900X, a 3950X, a 5900X, a 5950X and a i7 8086k (I think its an i7??) too... The temp differences between the 3900X's are minimal, same goes for the 5900X's. The 7980XE seems to be much better with re-pasting my delidded CPU as it was hitting 70C under load, then 80C after a bios update... Since then after a re-paste for the de-lid (only some MX-2 stuff) it was down to 60C.. With temps being a little higher, I've seen it hitting 80C, it is at stock for the moment, I think standard voltage as well...

The AIO's I use are a NZXT Z63 and an EVGA 280mm model as well. The air coolers are the Thermalright coolers. I use a custom water cooled loop for my 3970X Threadripper which is on a slightly tweaked voltage, I think 1.15vcore or somewhere abouts, that has a Heatkiller nickle CPU block with a 560mm GTX rad with some 2000rpm Vadar fans I think (they might be the 3000rpm models, I'll check my project thread from my sig as I can't remember but with that under a full load today, it was hitting about 50C to 55C after 30 minutes of 100% usage for WCG... The fans are not set to maximum speeds either. I'd guestimate about 50%?

Custom loops are crazy money compared to what they used to be, I remember getting EK water blocks for £25 to £35 new, rads used to be about £80 to £100 for a triple model, pump/res combo maybe £100 to £150 at worst but now, I think some might be closer to £300... Depending on the reason for custom loops, the cost might be worth it. For myself, the overkill build needed an overkill cooling solution, so I've a loop for the CPU and a separate identical one for the GPU. I think they work together very well

But getting a little more back on point, I do wonder why I bothered with the AIOs as they aren't the most flexible so to speak and I used to think oh AIOs easier with RAM heights but most of the air coolers now have zero issues with it... I also thought that for fitting around the RAM the AIOs would be easier but with the tubes coming out the size of the pump from the X63's you do need to think about where your putting them for in the wrong place, they'll cover the first RAM slot, which isn't a blind bit of help for those with 4 DIMM slots to fill.....

So for me, £30 for a cooler, instead of £100 or more for an AIO and that it will cool it maybe a 1C better or so, I just don't see the appeal... Custom is mostly for looks, want or to help tame a 400w CPU beast...

I wouldn’t say late to the party. I accidentally revived this thread that effectively ended in feb of this year.

At any rate, I’d guess..based on zero data of course…that AIOs were gateways into custom loops for most people. That mental block of “there is liquid…in my case…mounted on the top of the case…that can leak at any time and leak on the motherboard or right on my gpu…that doesn’t sound like a good idea at all”.

When someone gets past that sort of trepidation, it makes a custom loop less intimidating.

 

[freeagent]

I am just lazy, and I futz around with my hardware too much. I know for certain that a loop is better than an AIO, I will not kid myself there.. but I talked smack about AIO's for sooo long, that I bought one to prove myself wrong that an air cooler was just as good, if not better. And yeah I suppose they can be.. but this souped up Thermalright AIO that I am using is pretty badass on my 5900X compared to my souped up PS120 EVO..

 

[JustBenching]

Had AIO's for 10+ years, until I bought a 3090. Most cases cannot handle a GPU at 400+ watts with an AIO on the cpu, simply because an AIO reduces case airflow. That's when I switched to a u12a - still haven't found a need to use an AIO. Even on the 14900k I had the air cooler maxed it out (around 41k cbr23 score), so don't see the point right now.

Custom loop is a different beast, cause it allows you to watercool the only part of a PC that actually kinda needs a watercooler, the GPU.

 

[Fokker]

Measuring and cutting them sucks...

It's not so bad as long as their simple/single bends. It's when your doing multiple bends and offsets that it can get really crap. You do it perfect up until the last bend and then that screws your previous work on a tube.

 

[Ruru]

It's not so bad as long as their simple/single bends. It's when your doing multiple bends and offsets that it can get really crap. You do it perfect up until the last bend and then that screws your previous work on a tube.

You can't be more right sounds hella familiar.

 

[Waldorf]

lot of times ppl look at the cpu temp to determine how "good" LC is, but never talk about the fact i can mount the rad as exhaust, to dump heat outside the case,
dropping mb/drive/gpu temps down by 20-30C, something no air cooler no matter how good, will ever be able to do, unless cpu airflow is completely separate from everything else.
this way i have much higher boost clocks on any gpu, e.g. Nv drops one step for every 6C increase, so having the lowest case/gpu air intake temps will produce better perf as the gpu boosts higher,
even if an air cooler can cool the cpu as good as LC.

so stop chasing 2-3C less cpu temps (with the rad mounted front/intake), and use the rad to dump air outside,
and as soon as i use a mid size case, many have options to mount the rad on the side, so the top can still be serving for case/gpu airflow, so no trouble with even the hottest cards.

@Ferrum Master
lol, aio can do that, just needs to have the right perf.
for the time until i sorted how/what i wanted to add/change and have the parts, i use the Eisbaer 280 (res/qc) to run 3800X+2080S, inaudible at low loads @2ft distance,
and when gaming i run speakers/hp, so i only care that its not noticeable over other sounds, all no trouble, even using the stock pump.
ignoring (most) alphacool AIO use copper rads, so yes, aios can be enough, as long as the proper parts are used.

 

[Arctucas]

External rads in front of A/C unit, side panels off of chassis:

 

[wheresmycar]

Custom loop is a different beast, cause it allows you to watercool the only part of a PC that actually kinda needs a watercooler, the GPU.

Outside of CLs whats holding back GPU all-in-one liquid cooling solutions? The ones that are available are usually limited in supply and over-priced to feed the unremitting years-old niche. By now I envisaged GPU-AIOs being extensively available including support for abundant 360mm rad solutions - all that at a reasonable price. But we're far from it. Whats the hold up? Not enough demand or demand deterrence due to unaffordability for most? Last time i queried the same someone suggested its the GPU size/design variance which sparks greater compatibility concerns or complex manufacturing processes. One way or another i still fancy seeing more diverse and affordable GPU-AIO offerings... not just "seeing" but i'd bank one.

 

[maxfly]

Outside of CLs whats holding back GPU all-in-one liquid cooling solutions? The ones that are available are usually limited in supply and over-priced to feed the unremitting years-old niche. By now I envisaged GPU-AIOs being extensively available including support for abundant 360mm rad solutions - all that at a reasonable price. But we're far from it. Whats the hold up? Not enough demand or demand deterrence due to unaffordability for most? Last time i queried the same someone suggested its the GPU size/design variance which sparks greater compatibility concerns or complex manufacturing processes. One way or another i still fancy seeing more diverse and affordable GPU-AIO offerings... not just "seeing" but i'd bank one.

Lack of demand.

Full coverage blocks are generally too expensive to justify and not widely applicable. There are a few AIO units that they can be used with (if the pumps aren't to anemic) but single use blocks and AIOs aren't common or popular. The few GPU only block/memory and vrm air cooled units that existed (NZXT x63) aren't likely to cool the current power hogs well if at all. From what I recall, the heatsink portion was difficult to mount with many cards and they were discontinued a while ago and no one else picked up where they left off.

 

[Kapone33]

Well I know someone who definitely overestimated….EK as we have recently seen it burn them. I mean I use EK mainly because they do make quality gear and are easily accessible for me. Their mistake was literally producing so many SKUs there just wasn’t enough of a market for. I’m a former CNC machinist so I know what it takes to design and produce this kind of thing and it’s not cheap.

The issue was EK thought they were on the same level as Asus or even God forbid Apple. Then their is also the QC issues.