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Help undervolting i7 8750h Throttlestop

ourozz

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Hi everyone,
i bought a msi gp73 8re laptop, over the course of a few days while playing it started to have a high cpu temperature, i decided to research and found the throttlestop, followed some tutorials and my temperature significantly reduced from ~ 85-95 to ~ 65-75,on gaming , but I noticed that I have some yellow frames in the limit table, in gta I have Ring -» edp other (yellow), and after running cinebench I have core-» pl1 (yellow) and Ring - » edp other (yellow) . Should I worry about this? Is there any way to fix it?
 

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unclewebb

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PL1 in the log file shows that you are running into the long term 45 Watt TDP limit. On some laptops, this limit can be increased. On many MSI laptops, this limit cannot be increased. This will force your CPU to throttle so it does not exceed 45 Watts. In the FIVR window, try checking the Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits feature. First, click on the Install button beside that feature and follow the directions. You need to download RwDrv.zip from Mega and then you need to unzip that and install the RwDrv.sys file into your ThrottleStop folder. This helps some laptops get beyond the 45 Watt barrier.


Post a screenshot of your TPL window so I can see what you have your turbo power limits set to. You have Speed Shift checked on the main screen but ThrottleStop shows that you do not yet have Speed Shift enabled. If you want to use Speed Shift, you need to enable it in the TPL window. After you do this, you should see SST in green on the main screen of ThrottleStop.



Then you can set the EPP variable to 0 for maximum performance like you are doing. You can set EPP to about 80 for something similar to the Windows Balanced power profile where the CPU will down clock when lightly loaded. Some people like that. When plugged in, I always set EPP to 0. An EPP setting of 255 like the picture shows will turn your computer into a sluggish computer from the 1990s and should be avoided.

Your temps look good in the GTA V log file you posted and your CPU performance looks very consistent. No problems there. Happy to hear you got a significant drop in temps. It makes gaming a lot more enjoyable and less stressful when your laptop does not feel like an oven.
 

ourozz

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PL1 in the log file shows that you are running into the long term 45 Watt TDP limit. On some laptops, this limit can be increased. On many MSI laptops, this limit cannot be increased. This will force your CPU to throttle so it does not exceed 45 Watts. In the FIVR window, try checking the Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits feature. First, click on the Install button beside that feature and follow the directions. You need to download RwDrv.zip from Mega and then you need to unzip that and install the RwDrv.sys file into your ThrottleStop folder. This helps some laptops get beyond the 45 Watt barrier.


Post a screenshot of your TPL window so I can see what you have your turbo power limits set to. You have Speed Shift checked on the main screen but ThrottleStop shows that you do not yet have Speed Shift enabled. If you want to use Speed Shift, you need to enable it in the TPL window. After you do this, you should see SST in green on the main screen of ThrottleStop.



Then you can set the EPP variable to 0 for maximum performance like you are doing. You can set EPP to about 80 for something similar to the Windows Balanced power profile where the CPU will down clock when lightly loaded. Some people like that. When plugged in, I always set EPP to 0. An EPP setting of 255 like the picture shows will turn your computer into a sluggish computer from the 1990s and should be avoided.

Your temps look good in the GTA V log file you posted and your CPU performance looks very consistent. No problems there. Happy to hear you got a significant drop in temps. It makes gaming a lot more enjoyable and less stressful when your laptop does not feel like an oven.


First of all I would like to thank you for your help, I still haven't changed any values in the tpl window, can you help me fill in the most appropriate values?
I await reply, thanks again!
 

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unclewebb

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Your TPL screenshot shows that you have the Turbo Boost Long Power Max set to 45 Watts. Try bumping that up to 60 Watts and see if that is enough so you can run Cinebench without any power limit throttling. Combine that with the Mega advice from above. Even with these 2 tricks, some MSI laptops will still be limited to 45 Watts.

In the TPL window I would check the Speed Shift option and hit Apply. Also check the Enable Speed Shift when ThrottleStop Starts option. After that, you can adjust the Speed Shift Min and Max values to the same ones that are shown in the Speed Shift Range box. (1 and 41)

For PP0 Current Limit, set that to 100.

Go do some more testing with Limit Reasons open and see if anything lights up in red. A Log File is best so you have a thorough record of your CPU's performance.
 

ourozz

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Your TPL screenshot shows that you have the Turbo Boost Long Power Max set to 45 Watts. Try bumping that up to 60 Watts and see if that is enough so you can run Cinebench without any power limit throttling. Combine that with the Mega advice from above. Even with these 2 tricks, some MSI laptops will still be limited to 45 Watts.

In the TPL window I would check the Speed Shift option and hit Apply. Also check the Enable Speed Shift when ThrottleStop Starts option. After that, you can adjust the Speed Shift Min and Max values to the same ones that are shown in the Speed Shift Range box. (1 and 41)

For PP0 Current Limit, set that to 100.

Go do some more testing with Limit Reasons open and see if anything lights up in red. A Log File is best so you have a thorough record of your CPU's performance.

Here are the results after the changes, I checked the msi won't let me exceed 45 watts even after the changes! The Limit Reasons are the ones I had before, nothing red.
With this configuration I got the highest result in the cinebench.
 

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unclewebb

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I checked the msi won't let me exceed 45 watts even after the changes!
This is a problem for many laptops. Even laptops that are intended for enthusiasts are so locked down that you cannot get beyond the 45 Watt TDP limit. During GTA V, power consumption tops out at about 30 Watts so the 45 Watt limit is not a problem. It allows your CPU to run at full speed without any throttling.

In Cinebench, 45 Watts is not enough. Cinebench needs at least 60 Watts so the CPU can run at its full rated speed. As soon as the 45 Watt limit kicks in, you can see PL1 in the log file. The CPU is forced to slow down ~350 MHz to keep power consumption in check. This is not horrible compared to what some laptop manufacturers are doing but in my opinion, MSI is setting the bar too low.

MSI could have spent a couple of extra bucks on a better heatsink and went out of their way to make this laptop something really special. Instead, MSI decided that building an OK laptop was good enough. Automobile companies do not think like this. When GM designed their new Corvette, they wanted to be the best. I will never understand why so many laptop manufacturers think good is good enough.
 

Ch3m1zt

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oh , seems i m not the only one with the same cpu problem:S 2 days and nights of trying and learning the UV sht. never been a laptop guy so its kinda new for me. any luck with stable underclocks ? if do then maybe i cud have any reference points to start off ?
 

ourozz

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oh , seems i m not the only one with the same cpu problem:S 2 days and nights of trying and learning the UV sht. never been a laptop guy so its kinda new for me. any luck with stable underclocks ? if do then maybe i cud have any reference points to start off ?
what CPU do you have?
You can see through previous screenshots my configuration, that was the configuration that got the best results, but all cpus are different, you have to try and adjust until you get your best configuration.
 

Ch3m1zt

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i7 8750H and MSI GF62 8RE with 1060 6 gb and here are my setups so far i have managed to pull on it so i can play division 2 on 3,9 or so on cores and 70-85 c peaks ) still high but!, thats after couple of hours Division 2 around
same - 1.416 on intel IGPU and cache and core. still getting the power limit but there is a tutorial http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/guide-how-to-take-full-control-of-the-i7-8750h-advanced-version.823065/ but havent got time to deal with it any further atm, gonna look into this tomorrow.

i just got somewhat stable enough thermals for today and not knowing sht about this program:D so yhea learning curve is huge. works so far.
 

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unclewebb

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You have the Turbo Boost Long Power Max set to 46 Watts. That might not be enough for a 6 core CPU to run at its full rated speed. That might be why you are seeing power limit throttling.

Undervolting the Intel GPU does not do anything unless you also undervolt the iGPU Unslice equally. You are using the Nvidia GPU while gaming so there is hardly any reason to undervolt the Intel GPU. It will not save power because it is not being used and it might lead to instability.

You should be using the FIVR - Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits feature.

Edit - If your CPU is using Speed Shift, that box should be checked. Post more pics if you want more advice.

Edit2 - Set the PP0 Current Limit to 100. The default value of 0 might cause throttling problems.
 
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Ch3m1zt

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_0_ big up for ur help mate and thank you for putting time into this, like i said i have never come across with this kinda problems before.
i ll try change things around and give it a go. i tried locking the turbo power limits and ticked the clamp < and i couldnt reverse it later. no idea what these are and when i dont undervolt the igpu i get different results or laptop shuts down. :S gonna fiddle around with the suggestions and will come back with results :D
where the PL1 and PL2 get the values on reaching, i mean what causes PL1 and what changes pl2
PS: great community
 
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Ch3m1zt

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okay, after 2 days of tinkering around and unlocking some settings in bios, fallowing other thread i have results as fallowing which are the highest scores i have got so far in CB15 without massive thermal throttling or power throttling.
will continue stress testing later if other things ironed out. any other suggestions i could improve or change for better score and stable system?
cores are running @ higher clockspeed than before. dunno what caused that :D
 

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unclewebb

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cores are running @ higher clockspeed than before.
Looks like you are using some core parking software so the majority of tasks are all being forced to run on the first core. This allows the CPU to use the full 41.00 multiplier. I am not sure if you are doing this deliberately or maybe Windows is doing this all by itself.

Try running Cinebench R20. It takes longer to complete so it is a better tool to uncover throttling problems.

I would use the, "Download directly from Maxon" link that it provides.

I think a well cooled and properly setup 8750H can make it through the entire run without the multiplier in ThrottleStop dropping below 39.00. Anything less is a sign of throttling.

I still like setting the PP0 Current Limit to a fixed value like 100. If you are not seeing EDP OTHER going red across all 3 columns in Limit Reasons then this might not be necessary.
 

Ch3m1zt

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thanks mate, i did unlock core parking in bios setup and made reg.edit settings towards it so i cud have free will :) i might have been wrong!
btw uncle i have gone further in curve and thanks to ur effort teaching others i have found so much regarding this kinda cpus
for PPO. i dont know the values.... from what.... to where? any directions? coz 100 like i got suggested just turns it bad for real:S
ps: first thing in a morning i ll post what i have done in bios to reflect throttle stop. perhaps that helps out, within all changes so far.bare with me coz i can literally bake an egg on a fkn synaptics pad right now:S
* got all the benches. available to give results , gonna post 20 then fallowing
 

Osmandonate

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You have the Turbo Boost Long Power Max set to 46 Watts. That might not be enough for a 6 core CPU to run at its full rated speed. That might be why you are seeing power limit throttling.

Undervolting the Intel GPU does not do anything unless you also undervolt the iGPU Unslice equally. You are using the Nvidia GPU while gaming so there is hardly any reason to undervolt the Intel GPU. It will not save power because it is not being used and it might lead to instability.

You should be using the FIVR - Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits feature.

Edit - If your CPU is using Speed Shift, that box should be checked. Post more pics if you want more advice.

Edit2 - Set the PP0 Current Limit to 100. The default value of 0 might cause throttling problems.

You have the Turbo Boost Long Power Max set to 46 Watts. That might not be enough for a 6 core CPU to run at its full rated speed. That might be why you are seeing power limit throttling.

Undervolting the Intel GPU does not do anything unless you also undervolt the iGPU Unslice equally. You are using the Nvidia GPU while gaming so there is hardly any reason to undervolt the Intel GPU. It will not save power because it is not being used and it might lead to instability.

You should be using the FIVR - Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits feature.

Edit - If your CPU is using Speed Shift, that box should be checked. Post more pics if you want more advice.

Edit2 - Set the PP0 Current Limit to 100. The default value of 0 might cause throttling problems.
Hi guys! First of all thank you for all your insights and testing. I have a question regarding Throttlestop. I have a Razer Blade 15 2019 with an i7 9750h and a geforce 2070 max q. I was wondering if I'm better off leaving the turbo ratio limits untouched from factory and undervolt or set all turbo limits to 36 (0r even 37) along with the undervolt.

Also, what would be somewhat optimal values for the Turbo boost power limits for the i7 9750h?

Thanks for your help!!!
 

unclewebb

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@Osmandonate - Every CPU and every laptop is unique. It is always best to do your own testing on your own laptop. What a modern 6 core laptop is capable of depends on how well designed the cooling is. Some Razer laptops are not well cooled so it might be necessary to lower the turbo ratio limits to keep the CPU from overheating. Some laptops leave the turbo power limits completely unlocked. Some Razer laptops do the opposite and lock down the maximum turbo power limits. If that is the case, there will be nothing you can do with ThrottleStop or any other software. Locked is locked.

Time to start testing. I find that Cinebench R20 is a good real world test for a laptop.

Also run some 1 or 2 thread tests of ThrottleStop's built in TS Bench test. Laptops are designed to vary their speed based on how many cores are active so you need to test both full load and light load when under volting. Somewhere around -100 mV to -125 mV for both the CPU core and cache is a good place to start testing.

The default long term turbo power limit for your CPU is 45 Watts. You can try increasing the long and short in ThrottleStop both to 60 Watts. You will also need to check the FIVR - Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits option. Click on the Install button beside this option and follow the directions. On some laptops, this can make a world of difference but if Razer has locked things down, you might be stuck at a maximum of 45 Watts regardless of any settings in ThrottleStop.

Post lots of screenshots and include a ThrottleStop log file if you would like me to comment on your setup. In the Options window remember to check, Add Limit Reasons to Log File.
 

Osmandonate

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@Osmandonate - Every CPU and every laptop is unique. It is always best to do your own testing on your own laptop. What a modern 6 core laptop is capable of depends on how well designed the cooling is. Some Razer laptops are not well cooled so it might be necessary to lower the turbo ratio limits to keep the CPU from overheating. Some laptops leave the turbo power limits completely unlocked. Some Razer laptops do the opposite and lock down the maximum turbo power limits. If that is the case, there will be nothing you can do with ThrottleStop or any other software. Locked is locked.

Time to start testing. I find that Cinebench R20 is a good real world test for a laptop.

Also run some 1 or 2 thread tests of ThrottleStop's built in TS Bench test. Laptops are designed to vary their speed based on how many cores are active so you need to test both full load and light load when under volting. Somewhere around -100 mV to -125 mV for both the CPU core and cache is a good place to start testing.

The default long term turbo power limit for your CPU is 45 Watts. You can try increasing the long and short in ThrottleStop both to 60 Watts. You will also need to check the FIVR - Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits option. Click on the Install button beside this option and follow the directions. On some laptops, this can make a world of difference but if Razer has locked things down, you might be stuck at a maximum of 45 Watts regardless of any settings in ThrottleStop.

Post lots of screenshots and include a ThrottleStop log file if you would like me to comment on your setup. In the Options window remember to check, Add Limit Reasons to Log File.
Unclewebb,

Thanks so much for the prompt response and for your time and willingness to help. I will run tests with Cinebench R20 as you have mentioned earlier.
Should I do this testing with the stock Power ratio Limits along with the undervolt? That is 45, 44, 43, 42, 41, 40. Or should I reduce those power limit ratios along with the undervolt and test?

Again, thanks for your help!
 

unclewebb

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Just do some testing. I would start with a basic undervolt of -100 mV and I would use the default turbo ratios. See what sort of temps and score you get running Cinebench. Open up Limit Reasons. See if anything is lighting up in red which indicates the reason for throttling.

Let your results guide you. If your CPU is thermal throttling at 45 Watts then there is no point trying to go beyond that unless you can find a way to improve cooling.

Post pics while your CPU is loaded. Your results will show what needs to be adjusted or fixed.
 

Osmandonate

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UncleWebb,

I just did a run with what you can see below. I noticed I had thermal throttling at -.0125 (both) and lots of PL1's during the multicore R20 run. Also at -0.125 temps seem to be rather high causing the thermal throttling.

I also run a single core with R20.

What is your take? I apologize if I'm missing something.

Thanks again!

Unclewebb,

Also, I seemed to have found a good spot with temps and performance setting all the cores at 3.6 with an undervolt of -0.149. I run Battlefield V for about 10 minutes and there wasn't any thermal throttling or power limit throttling. The average temp for all cores was below 90 degrees (86 average) but threre were a few cores that spiked to 93-93 degrees. In Battlefield V, Performance wise, the results are on par or better that having all the cores running with the stock power ratios (45,44,43,42,41,40) and there wasn't any kind of throttling.

The only throttling that was present was during the Cinebench R20 run was Power limit throttling which started kicking in the middle of the R20 testing.

Cinebench R20 results: Stock Power Ratios Multicore: 2597 (There was thermal throttling, Power limit throttling.......) high temps in all cores
Cinebench R20 results: 3.6 Power ratios Multicore: 2730 (The only throttling was Power Limit throttling) temps stayed cooler for sure, in the 80's.

If you wish I can try to send you screenshots of this scenario :)

Would you leave the computer running @ 3.6 or should I stick to the stock ratios and try to undervolt until it becomes stable?


Thanks again!
 

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unclewebb

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What all your info shows is that your CPU can happily run at up to 75 Watts. Your cooling system was not designed for that so you immediately run into thermal throttling. Some people like to replace the thermal paste to try and improve cooling. The max core temps are varying from 86°C to 100°C. That is a significant amount of variation and is usually a sign that the heatsink is not sitting square on the CPU cores or the thermal paste job was less than great.

Long term, your CPU is limited to 45 Watts. Some manufacturers allow the CPU to go beyond this limit. Long term, Razer clamps things down so you cannot exceed the 45 Watt TDP limit. There is nothing you can do about that.

For comparison, a well cooled 9750H with unlocked power limits can hit 3200 points in the Cinebench R20 test. Razer laptops that are locked down cannot compete with this.


For the turbo ratios, maybe you can stagger them more. Instead of going from 45 to 40, you could try going from 45 to 36. That way you would still have full speed when lightly loaded. Spend a day or two playing around with all of these settings until you come up with something that works best for you and the apps / games that you normally run.
 

Osmandonate

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What all your info shows is that your CPU can happily run at up to 75 Watts. Your cooling system was not designed for that so you immediately run into thermal throttling. Some people like to replace the thermal paste to try and improve cooling. The max core temps are varying from 86°C to 100°C. That is a significant amount of variation and is usually a sign that the heatsink is not sitting square on the CPU cores or the thermal paste job was less than great.

Long term, your CPU is limited to 45 Watts. Some manufacturers allow the CPU to go beyond this limit. Long term, Razer clamps things down so you cannot exceed the 45 Watt TDP limit. There is nothing you can do about that.

For comparison, a well cooled 9750H with unlocked power limits can hit 3200 points in the Cinebench R20 test. Razer laptops that are locked down cannot compete with this.


For the turbo ratios, maybe you can stagger them more. Instead of going from 45 to 40, you could try going from 45 to 36. That way you would still have full speed when lightly loaded. Spend a day or two playing around with all of these settings until you come up with something that works best for you and the apps / games that you normally run.
Unclewebb,

Thanks again!

Also, for the Turbo boost power limits since the laptop won't be able to handle 75 watts should I lower the values so as to get cooler temps in the CPU? Something like 50,70?

Is there anything else on the snapshots that I should modify?

I really appreciate your help!
 

unclewebb

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I do not know if there is any difference in smoothness between thermal throttling and power limit throttling. I think both Intel throttling methods work well. The CPU is slowed down just enough so it does not exceed either limit.

Setting your power limits to 50W or 60W for the long term limit and to 65W or 70W for the short term limit should be OK. Long term, the ThrottleStop requested long term value is going to be reduced to 45W by the Razer firmware.

Overall your settings look OK. You seem to be gathering lots of knowledge about how Intel CPUs work and how to control them so they perform the way you want them to. You can try increasing your undervolt. Some CPUs might be happy when you go beyond -125 mV. Many will start showing errors in benchmark tests or you will start to see light load BSOD issues if you go too far.
 

Osmandonate

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I do not know if there is any difference in smoothness between thermal throttling and power limit throttling. I think both Intel throttling methods work well. The CPU is slowed down just enough so it does not exceed either limit.

Setting your power limits to 50W or 60W for the long term limit and to 65W or 70W for the short term limit should be OK. Long term, the ThrottleStop requested long term value is going to be reduced to 45W by the Razer firmware.

Overall your settings look OK. You seem to be gathering lots of knowledge about how Intel CPUs work and how to control them so they perform the way you want them to. You can try increasing your undervolt. Some CPUs might be happy when you go beyond -125 mV. Many will start showing errors in benchmark tests or you will start to see light load BSOD issues if you go too far.
Unclewebb,

For the turbo time limit do you think I should change the time from 28 to something lower?

Yesterday after I run R20 I increased the PP0 current limit to 100 thinking that I was not getting enough power. Should I revert it back to 0?

Also, should I keep the "lock and disable turbo power limits" tab checked?

Thanks again! I think I'm done asking you questions :)

Once again I appreciate your time.
 

unclewebb

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Your turbo time limit setting will depend on your power limit settings. Your cooling cannot handle your CPU at 75 Watts for more than a second. If you set the short limit to 70 Watts, you will need to lower the time limit to maybe 1 or 2 seconds. If you decide to go with a 65 Watt short term power limit, you should be able to get away with that for a longer period of time. The variables and possibilities are endless. Avoiding thermal throttling is a good goal. Try to come up with some settings that give you a couple of degrees of wiggle room. No need to get too scientific about this. Thermal throttling or power limit throttling will protect your CPU from damage.

I do not think the PP0 Current Limit is important. I would leave it at 100 to make sure it is not a reason for throttling. Easier to adjust the power limits to control things.

I think the Lock and Disable feature is a good thing to leave checked. It does not hurt anything using this feature.
 

Osmandonate

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Unclewebb,

I'm trying to set the turbo ratio limits as follows:

41,40,40,39,39,38 and the CPU only reaches 3.9 accross all cores. Is there anything I need to meddle with?

Any suggestions as of how you would personally set those limits? I'm just not sure how to stack them so it makes more sense.

Thanks again!!!!! You are either a teacher or you should become one :) TY
 
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