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Help undervolting i7 8750h Throttlestop

Medic7

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Thank you for the response.

I am not sure if the settings I have correct for ThrottleStop are now better/ correct in your view now? Will attach screenshot for the changes I have made under your advice and from what I understood.

As for the model of Laptop it is a Dell G5 15 5587 . I do not want to take it apart even though I'm sure doing a repaste might actually help at this point?

For the power mode, I don't see the option for high performance. I do however have the power plan set for "Dell Ultra Preformance" which also boosts the fans to the max.

I have completed the test, and attached a screenshot for when it started with Throttle Stop Limits Open and showing red and a screenshot for when it ended.

Please let me know, what I should change.
 

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unclewebb

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it is a Dell G5 15 5587
Dell was going to be my first guess. They have a knack for building laptops which include powerful 6 core CPUs but sometimes they forget to include an adequate heatsink and fan. Excessive throttling and poor overall performance are the result. An 8750H in a properly engineered chassis can score over 3000 points in Cinebench R20. Your laptop definitely has lots of room for improvement. What temperature was your CPU at when running Cinebench? Your pictures are great but you cropped off most of the ThrottleStop data in that picture.

For the power mode
The Dell Ultra Performance power mode looks good to me.

For a baseline, go into the TPL window and set both of the turbo power limits to 45 Watts. Your CPU has a 45 Watt TDP rating so with proper cooling, it should be able to maintain itself at that power level without overheating.

Open the ThrottleStop Options window and check the box, Add Limit Reasons to Log File. This will help with troubleshooting. Also check the Nvidia GPU box. On the main screen of ThrottleStop, check the Log File option and then go play a game for at least 15 or 20 minutes. Hopefully long enough so if your computer has any throttling issues, this information should be recorded in the log file. When you are finished testing, exit your game and then exit ThrottleStop so it can finalize the log file.

Look in your ThrottleStop / Logs folder and you will see the log file. Attach this file to your next post. I need to see some data that shows how your CPU is performing during normal use.

Edit - Your Speed Shift Max value is still set to 35. Set it back to its default value of 41. You can leave the Turbo Ratios all set to 39. That is OK for initial testing purposes.
 

Medic7

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Afternoon,

I have done the corrections on my throttle stop. I will post screenshots again for you to view. I have also run cinabench and taking screenshots of the results and temp from throttle stop during and after running it. Lastly I have run Rising Storm 2 (not a very graphic intense game) for about 20 min and there was major fps dropping. I will attached the log created from throttlestop for it and also another log I made for cinabench.

Clearly these throttlestop adjusts are not working for my laptop correct?
 

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unclewebb

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Clearly these throttlestop adjusts are not working for my laptop correct?
We have not made any adjustments yet. I am trying to see how your laptop is performing at its default specs. Including lots of pictures and log files will help me understand what is going on with your laptop.

Keep in mind that if a laptop is poorly designed and has inadequate cooling and you are not willing to pull it apart and re-engineer it, there is only so much that you can do. Some of your screenshots show your CPU is getting up to 100°C and thermal throttling. That is just bad design on Dell's part.
 

Medic7

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Yeah... I won't be purchasing a Dell Laptop anytime soon after this... or make sure on how good the thermals on are on a "Gaming Laptop"prior to purchase. Will be waiting for any other advice on further conficguration.
 

unclewebb

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Your Gaming log tells the story. When you first start, CPU power consumption is around 25W and everything is OK. Once you get into the game, power consumption increases to 35W and your CPU temperature starts to increase. There are already some random throttling episodes where the CPU MHz briefly drops to just over half of its rated speed. The CPU continues to get hotter until it reaches the maximum thermal throttling temperature. Thermal throttling continues for quite a while. The throttling brings the CPU back towards 25W but still the heatsink and fan cannot keep up. The additional heat within the laptop chassis has the GPU temp going up and up until it too hits 95°C.

Things are out of control so the power limit gets dropped to about 13W. That helps out a little but now Dell decides to get really aggressive and drops the power limit down to about 7.5W. Someone at Dell thinks that a 45W CPU throttled down to 7.5W is acceptable. This causes the CPU MHz to plummet down to 800 MHz. The 8750H is quite capable of running this game at 3900 MHz without a hint of throttling. Dell thinks 800 MHz is good enough. That is disgusting. There is no doubt that when this happens your FPS are going to drop like a rock and your game will become unplayable.

As you continue to try to use your computer, the throttling schemes cycle. Thermal throttling, power limit throttling, severe power limit throttling, severe MHz throttling, etc., over and over again. If Dell claims that this laptop computer can be used for gaming, they lied. A modern computer that throttles down to 800 MHz for 50 second stretches at a time is unusable and unacceptable.

The chassis is not capable of cooling a 45W CPU anytime that the GPU is active such as when gaming. You can use ThrottleStop to reduce your CPU speed or you can use ThrottleStop to reduce your CPU power consumption significantly. The goal is to try and avoid these severe throttling cycles that your laptop is going through. The heatsink and fan are overwhelmed when trying to run at default specs.

Some users use the Disable Turbo feature to try to control things. I prefer setting the long term turbo power limit in the TPL window to a value that the cooling system can handle. For your laptop, when playing this game, I would try limiting your 45W CPU down to 15W. This might give you more consistent performance and will help you avoid the severe throttling that this laptop is prone to. From what I can see, 15W or maybe 20W for the CPU is about all this laptop chassis can handle.
 
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Just to add my experience here, and to highlight a very different behavior on my Dell G7 7790, I'm not experiencing that aggressive level of throttling on my laptop. Quite on the contrary, my notebook used to be quite hot while gaming because the CPU keep very high settings (around 4 Ghz) most of the times, with CPU temps above 90° C while gaming.
Basically it didn't throttle until hit the 100° C threshold, and even then, it throttled very little.
Since I don't like my computer to operate constantly near its limits, thanks to this fantastic utility (Throttlestop ... it is great !) I managed to slightly undervolt the CPU (i7-9750H) to -135mV, rock stable, and I set Turbo Ratio Limits to 45-44-42-41-40-39 (so a very little reduction) just to avoid to hit 90° C when fully loaded.
I also set Speed Shift EPP to 110, which I found to be a good compromise.
Now I'm playing most intensive games (which seems to be Rainbow Six Siege I don't know why) with CPU temperatures in the 80/85° range, and CPU clock in the 3.2/3.6 Ghz interval. Perfect.

I don't know why more recent games like AC Origins seems to be less CPU intensive: temperatures are in the 75/80° C range and CPU clock usually is in the 3/3.2 Ghz range.

As a further clarification, the default Turbo Boost Power Limits where 90W for both shot and long times. I modified it to be 90W on short and 60W on long.
PP0 current limit was set at 170 and I left it unchanged.
 

Thrasher

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Hello everyone again.
I leave some captures I hope you can tell me how I'm going.
-
the captures are after seeing past cinebench, I reach 2477 points.
-
notebook msi. i7 8750h and gtx 1060

Just to add my experience here, and to highlight a very different behavior on my Dell G7 7790, I'm not experiencing that aggressive level of throttling on my laptop. Quite on the contrary, my notebook used to be quite hot while gaming because the CPU keep very high settings (around 4 Ghz) most of the times, with CPU temps above 90° C while gaming.
Basically it didn't throttle until hit the 100° C threshold, and even then, it throttled very little.
Since I don't like my computer to operate constantly near its limits, thanks to this fantastic utility (Throttlestop ... it is great !) I managed to slightly undervolt the CPU (i7-9750H) to -135mV, rock stable, and I set Turbo Ratio Limits to 45-44-42-41-40-39 (so a very little reduction) just to avoid to hit 90° C when fully loaded.
I also set Speed Shift EPP to 110, which I found to be a good compromise.
Now I'm playing most intensive games (which seems to be Rainbow Six Siege I don't know why) with CPU temperatures in the 80/85° range, and CPU clock in the 3.2/3.6 Ghz interval. Perfect.

I don't know why more recent games like AC Origins seems to be less CPU intensive: temperatures are in the 75/80° C range and CPU clock usually is in the 3/3.2 Ghz range.

As a further clarification, the default Turbo Boost Power Limits where 90W for both shot and long times. I modified it to be 90W on short and 60W on long.
PP0 current limit was set at 170 and I left it unchanged.

Would it only work for 9750?
 

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Hello everyone again.
I leave some captures I hope you can tell me how I'm going.
-
the captures are after seeing past cinebench, I reach 2477 points.
-
notebook msi. i7 8750h and gtx 1060



Would it only work for 9750?
Most of my settings would be fine on an i7-8750H, since it is very similar to 9750H.
Some other are more specific to the Dell G7 7790, since they are involving TDP and heath management of that specific model.
But you can surely try on your computer.

You seem to be using a quite aggressive downvolting, which is fine if your CPU can manage it. But you are using a setting of 0 in Speed Shift EPP.
On my notebook a setting of 0 means the CPU will stay at maximum clock all the time, which is not so good for temperatures.
 

Thrasher

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Most of my settings would be fine on an i7-8750H, since it is very similar to 9750H.
Some other are more specific to the Dell G7 7790, since they are involving TDP and heath management of that specific model.
But you can surely try on your computer.

You seem to be using a quite aggressive downvolting, which is fine if your CPU can manage it. But you are using a setting of 0 in Speed Shift EPP.
On my notebook a setting of 0 means the CPU will stay at maximum clock all the time, which is not so good for temperatures.

Thank you very much for answering. What value in undervolt and speed shift epp would you recommend?

Alright, so this is the best I could do on my own.

Scored 2,801 points on Cinebench R20 but I don't remember what settings I used. Can't seem to replicate it now!
Anyway, I somehow managed to push the undervolt to -70mV which passes the TS Bench test and I dropped Turbo ratio limits. I noticed that keeping 6 cores active at 36x kept the temps <= 85°C which is what I'm targeting. However, CPU performance takes a big hit (as expected) scoring 2,605 points on R20. I ran BF5 on High settings and got decent (read: better than before) FPS with CPU temps at ~86°C.

What should my optimum Turbo Ratio Limits be? And what about the Turbo Time Limit? The combinations are endless and I'm just not able to find a satisfactory setting. I'm pretty cheesed off with Asus providing lousy thermal solutions. It seems I've to re-paste as last resort.
Current stable TS settings as attached.

Edit 1: I've maxed out the IccMax values. Not sure if that helps? What about PP0 Current Limit set at 100? In my previous screenshots it was at 0 and changing it to any other value would trigger the EDP Other limit immediately.

I am waiting for your great configuration haha
 
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Thank you very much for answering. What value in undervolt and speed shift epp would you recommend?
That’s depends on your system.
I would start with -100 mV, check stability and then move further down, but since you are already at -179 mV, you probably have a lucky cpu. I would set -150 mV just to be on the safe side.
regarding epp, I found a good compromise between 64 and 100 on my system, and I set 100 because my CPU is quite hot (I should repaste it in the future).
Do some tests on your laptop to check temperatures while gaming.
 

Thrasher

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That’s depends on your system.
I would start with -100 mV, check stability and then move further down, but since you are already at -179 mV, you probably have a lucky cpu. I would set -150 mV just to be on the safe side.
regarding epp, I found a good compromise between 64 and 100 on my system, and I set 100 because my CPU is quite hot (I should repaste it in the future).Do some tests on your laptop to check temperatures while gaming.
Thank you very much for your advice, I had forgotten to activate the cooler boost of the notebook thanks to that I reach 2600 points in cinebench, regarding the fivr what damage can it cause?
I am considering changing the thermal paste because I realize that only one core exceeds 90 degrees.
 
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Thank you very much for your advice, I had forgotten to activate the cooler boost of the notebook thanks to that I reach 2600 points in cinebench, regarding the fivr what damage can it cause?
I am considering changing the thermal paste because I realize that only one core exceeds 90 degrees.
Too much undervolting usually doesn’t damage anything. It just brings instability to the system.

The fact just one core exceeds 90° most probably isn’t related to its physical position on the die. It is more stressed than others because most of the times the CPU could not share the load in an even way among every cores, so one (or two) could be more stressed than others.
 

Medic7

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Does this make sense to anyone? Maybe this is my problem? The intergrated GPU, CPU and my Nvidiea GPU are running at the same time? Should only the CPU and Nvidea GPU be running when playing a game? Also should the GPU usage also be much higher than 17%?

Also I have made sure through the Nvidea Control Panel to make sure the game uses my Nvidea GPU.
 

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Does this make sense to anyone? Maybe this is my problem? The intergrated GPU, CPU and my Nvidiea GPU are running at the same time? Should only the CPU and Nvidea GPU be running when playing a game? Also should the GPU usage also be much higher than 17%?

Also I have made sure through the Nvidea Control Panel to make sure the game uses my Nvidea GPU.
Try taking a screen shot during the gameplay, not at idle.
 

morgothe

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Hello, my laptop Asus ROG GL704GW-DS76 processor i7 8750h, RTX2070. I tried to do undervolting with turbo boost enabled, in this mode, the voltage turned out to lower the maximum by -65.6 mV (and then I caught the BSOD once an hour), if I disable the turbo boost, it turned out to lower to 100.6 and it is stable for me, help me how to configure correctly for my thottlestop processor so that the turbo bus still works stably. BTW my laptop has an unlocked BIOS with all settings.
 

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Hello, my laptop Asus ROG GL704GW-DS76 processor i7 8750h, RTX2070. I tried to do undervolting with turbo boost enabled, in this mode, the voltage turned out to lower the maximum by -65.6 mV (and then I caught the BSOD once an hour), if I disable the turbo boost, it turned out to lower to 100.6 and it is stable for me, help me how to configure correctly for my thottlestop processor so that the turbo bus still works stably. BTW my laptop has an unlocked BIOS with all settings.
unfortunately every CPU is different...
An i7-8750H should works fine at -130/-150 mV, but your is different (that's the reason they set the voltage at the default value... to let EVERY CPU to work).
I would not disable Turbo Boost: you are reducing the performance of your CPU.
If you are facing thermal issues, you could slighlty reduce Turbo Boost Ratio Limits.
 

morgothe

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unfortunately every CPU is different...
An i7-8750H should works fine at -130/-150 mV, but your is different (that's the reason they set the voltage at the default value... to let EVERY CPU to work).
I would not disable Turbo Boost: you are reducing the performance of your CPU.
If you are facing thermal issues, you could slighlty reduce Turbo Boost Ratio Limits.

Thanks for the answer! And how much do you recommend reducing the Turbo Boost Ratio?
 
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Thanks for the answer! And how much do you recommend reducing the Turbo Boost Ratio?
it depends on your system.
IIRC on an i7-8750H defaults turbo ratio are 41-41-40-40-39-39.
On the system I fixed a couple weeks ago the setting 41-40-39-38-37-36 was enough to keep temperatures under control.
And 3.6 Ghz on all cores is much better than the 2.2 GHz you are limiting disabling turbo.

If you have a very poor cooled notebook, you could try something even more conservative (like 41-38-36-34-33-32).
You just have to findo out what fits your needs.

PS: you could also works on Speed Shift EPP, since your is set to 0 (that means your CPU is going for maximum performance every time): try more conservative setting like 99/109 for instance...
 
Last edited:

JustCraftMe

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Hi everyone!
Despite all these advices, i'm tryin'g to undervolt my I7-8750h on my msi laptop (GP73 Leopard 8re ->8G RAM GTX1060-6G and i7-8750H) and i'm getting all theses BSOD when playing CIV or CS:GO while my pc stays stable when running Prime95 For 12 hours+.

I Was previously running smooth at -170 mv but after te 1st crash in game i got back to a safer -150.
Any help would be appreciated.


Here's some screenshots :
TS Base Window.PNG
LimitReasons.PNG
FIVR.PNG

(all these sreenshots were took when i was just browsing this site and some more tabs in Brave browser)
 
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not all the i7-8750H can operate at -150 mV core and cache.
I don't understand exactly what is the issue you are trying to solve here. If it is stable at -150 mV, just keep it. It is a good amount of undervolting.

Your notebook is quite hot while just browsing, but that's because of the EPP set to 0 that keeps your CPU almost constantly at 3.9 GHz. There is really no need for that.
I think the impact of EPP in Windows is highly underrated. All the people are looking for 0, which means best performance but also that your CPU is trying to keep maximum speed all the time.
The balance set for my Dell G7 is 84, and I'm using a "game accelerator" that set it to 0 when launching a game and then to 84 again when you exit the game.

By the way, you should show us the TPL tab screenshot also, since the PL2 flag means your notebook reached the maximum short time power limit.
 
Last edited:

JustCraftMe

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not all the i7-8750H can operate at -150 mV core and cache.
I don't understand exactly what is the issue you are trying to solve here. If it is stable at -150 mV, just keep it. It is a good amount of undervolting.

Your notebook is quite hot while just browsing, but that's because of the EPP set to 0 that keeps your CPU almost constantly at 3.9 GHz. There is really no need for that.
I think the impact of EPP in Windows is highly underrated. All the people are looking for 0, which means best performance but also that your CPU is trying to keep maximum speed all the time.
The balance set for my Dell G7 is 84, and I'm using a "game accelerator" that set it to 0 when launching a game and then to 84 again when you exit the game.

By the way, you should show us the TPL tab screenshot also, since the PL2 flag means your notebook reached the maximum short time power limit.

The issue is that sometimes my pc just blue screens in games at -150 while not doing that in prime 95 under reaaaaly heavy stress.

I'll change the epp to 80 and see what it does!!

btw here is my TPL Tab:
TPL TAB.PNG


thanks for your numerous advices, im pretty new to undervolting and the community is really nice!!
 
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The issue is that sometimes my pc just blue screens in games at -150 while not doing that in prime 95 under reaaaaly heavy stress.

I'll change the epp to 80 and see what it does!!

btw here is my TPL Tab:
View attachment 157710

thanks for your numerous advices, im pretty new to undervolting and the community is really nice!!
The TPL tab seems ok to me, you have a good PL2 of 90W and PL1 of 60W: more than enough for a gaming laptop.

EPP to 84 could help keep temperatures under control during browsing.
If you have BSOD at -150 mV, your CPU isn't really liking it. Try to leave core at -150 mV and reduce the CPU Cache at -125 / -100 mV. Sometimes it helps.
But keep in mind that your CPU could be more sensible than other, and maybe you need to lower your ambitions and just accept -100/-80 mV for both core and cache.
Every CPU is different.
 

JustCraftMe

New Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2020
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The TPL tab seems ok to me, you have a good PL2 of 90W and PL1 of 60W: more than enough for a gaming laptop.

EPP to 84 could help keep temperatures under control during browsing.
If you have BSOD at -150 mV, your CPU isn't really liking it. Try to leave core at -150 mV and reduce the CPU Cache at -125 / -100 mV. Sometimes it helps.
But keep in mind that your CPU could be more sensible than other, and maybe you need to lower your ambitions and just accept -100/-80 mV for both core and cache.
Every CPU is different.
i'll try this and keep you informed, my pc is now at 40 degrees celsius at idle that's much much better Thanks you !!
(cpu core is now -150 and cpu cache is now -125)

not all the i7-8750H can operate at -150 mV core and cache.
I don't understand exactly what is the issue you are trying to solve here. If it is stable at -150 mV, just keep it. It is a good amount of undervolting.

Your notebook is quite hot while just browsing, but that's because of the EPP set to 0 that keeps your CPU almost constantly at 3.9 GHz. There is really no need for that.
I think the impact of EPP in Windows is highly underrated. All the people are looking for 0, which means best performance but also that your CPU is trying to keep maximum speed all the time.
The balance set for my Dell G7 is 84, and I'm using a "game accelerator" that set it to 0 when launching a game and then to 84 again when you exit the game.

By the way, you should show us the TPL tab screenshot also, since the PL2 flag means your notebook reached the maximum short time power limit.
Where is the game accelerator setting btw?
 

unclewebb

ThrottleStop & RealTemp Author
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
4,954 (0.95/day)
stable when running Prime95 For 12 hours+
On mobile CPUs, an undervolt that is stable during full load Prime95 testing, is rarely stable during normal use. Mobile CPUs use a higher multiplier when lightly loaded and they are designed to significantly drop the voltage when idle. When you add an undervolt on top of this already reduced voltage, BSODs are common.

The TS Bench test has proven to be a good test for setting voltages. Instead of full load testing, use only 1 or 2 threads of the TS Bench. It will report errors when your voltage gets too low. I like Prime95 too. Instead of full load testing, do some partial load testing of 1 or 2 threads of Prime95. These are more real world tests for mobile CPUs. Windows takes this load and continuously bounces it around from core to core. The multiplier used is continuously changing.

The 8750H and 9750H seem to like having the core offset being set to a bigger number compared to the cache offset. It is always the cache offset that holds you back. The advice that @Max(IT) gave you to back off the cache voltage was a wise one. Run some Cinebench R20 tests while reducing the core voltage offset. Some of these CPUs are 100% stable and Cinebench scores continue to improve until the core offset gets to about -200 mV. Too many users for too long have always assumed that these voltages need to be set equal. They do not.

EDP OTHER across all 3 domains is sometimes caused by the PP0 Current Limit. Try bumping that up from 100 to 150. Same with the FIVR IccMax. These are just limits. Your CPU does not need these limits. It will slow down and thermal throttle when it gets too hot.
 
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