i9-10900k at +115 ‘C @5.1ghz

[unclewebb]

Any idea what’s going on?

My Asus desktop board allows me to set the thermal throttling (PROCHOT) temperature to a maximum of 115°C.
Some boards use 115°C as the default value which is a little crazy.

This is a useful feature for enthusiasts. People that love to get the most out of their hardware would give their right arm for a better 3DMark or Cinebench score. They could care a less about the long term health of their CPU.

ThrottleStop reports this correctly and I seem to recall testing this feature once or twice.

At 114°C, the CPU will continue to use full turbo boost and will run as fast as possible. If 115°C is reached, the CPU only slows down as much as necessary to keep the CPU from exceeding 115°C. Intel thermal throttling works fantastic whether it is set to 100°C or 115°C.

I have set the throttling temperature as low as 32°C. The practical minimum seems to be approximately 45°C.

 

[Vayra86]

Wait, I don't get it. He set the TJMax to 95°C, then wondered why the CPU was running cooler but not clocking as high as it was before? And this guys a tech youtuber?!?

Every video posted on Youtube with your own face in it inflicts an IQ debuff of twenty points.

The first appearance is generally acceptable and then it goes downhill

 

[freeagent]

Is there a famous YouTuber here?

 

[newtekie1]

No, he questioned why the behaviour was erratic


1. The TJmax on auto was 65-115C, meant to read from the CPU - but it did not, it just went to 118C as if it was disabled

2.He then threw the delta fan on top, which dropped the temps... and the clocks for no reason

3. He disabled thermal throttling entirely at 7:30 and... it clocked lower. Like... the settings are backwards?

Thats the thing though. He put the delta fan on after he went into the BIOS and set a TJMax of 95°C. From what it looks like in the video he made both of those changes at the same time. So the lower temps and lower clocks make sense. The lower temps might not even be from the Delta fan. His entire testing process with a mess and he didn't even seem to have a basic understanding of how these systems work.

 

[Ferd]

Some boards use 115°C as the default value which is a little crazy.

So clearly board manufacturers know the cpu will be fine above 100 C , what I don’t understand is intel’s own ratings , they still stick to 100C max on the website, is that playing it safe ? I also thought the chips are forced to throttle by dptf

 

[newtekie1]

So clearly board manufacturers know the cpu will be fine above 100 C , what I don’t understand is intel’s own ratings , they still stick to 100C max on the website, is that playing it safe ?

The board manufacturers don't know anything. If the CPU dies, it isn't their problem, it's Intel's.

 

[unclewebb]

board manufacturers know the cpu will be fine above 100 C

I would not say that. More like, board manufacturers know that if an Intel CPU blows up, Intel will likely replace it and it will not cost the motherboard manufacturer any money.

Intel has always said that they cannot guarantee long term reliability if you decide to operate their CPUs outside of their published spec. The max temperature spec for the majority of Intel CPUs is 100°C. Your CPU might run wonderful for years after it runs at 110°C or 115°C or it might run unreliably after that. Random BSOD or it might need more voltage to be stable.

forced to throttle by dptf

I do not have that driver installed on my computer. Thermal throttling is built into and controlled by the hardware.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Anyone liking 100c or over clearly is trying to warm up their igloo lol

 

[Ferd]

The board manufacturers don't know anything. If the CPU dies, it isn't their problem, it's Intel's.

Makes sense , they’re main concern should be the ability to provide enough power through vrms reliably, heat management is for the user to take care of

Thermal throttling is built into and controlled by the hardware.

Yet in that video nothing is stoping that cpu , guess we can’t blame nzxt , nor intel , perhaps it’s okay for overclocking oriented boards

Hi,
Anyone liking 100c or over clearly is trying to warm up their igloo lol

Hi,
Anyone liking 100c or over clearly is trying to warm up their igloo lol

I mean he intentionally put a tiny cooler on the cpu , just a test I guess nothing to be worried about

 

[phill]

I

I do have to say I like my Z77 OC Formula and its archaic bios EATX kinda sucks though.. have to use a monster case.

Ahh it doesn't really bother my that they still live, I am impressed though.. I thought they were dead. They must be doing something right

Love mine too, just works and is brilliant for overclocking

Wow A small cooler on a big CPU giving poor temps... Who'd have thought??

Wait, I don't get it. He set the TJMax to 95°C, then wondered why the CPU was running cooler but not clocking as high as it was before? And this guys a tech youtuber?!?

I think this is the quality of most tech Youtubers.....

 

[Mussels]

The whole video was him putting a terrible stock cooler on and showing how it'd go bad, the BIOS being erratic and not obeying the temp limits was the real talking point

 

[The red spirit]

The thermal capacity of the cooler is poor for something like OC'ed 10900K. No wonder it couldn't keep up.

Well sure it's clearly not adequate, but it's impressive that it did as well as this. Over 5Ghz on OEM aluminum pancake is nothing to scoff at.

And there you go. NZXTs troubles have been more recent. BTW, That's a "K" series i5. Give that thing some OC love! It's built for it. You should be able to get 4.8ghz all-core with minimal effort and minimal extra heat.

It's NZXT, they never had proper QC and engineering. I thought it was a common knowledge.

 

[Vayra86]

So clearly board manufacturers know the cpu will be fine above 100 C , what I don’t understand is intel’s own ratings , they still stick to 100C max on the website, is that playing it safe ? I also thought the chips are forced to throttle by dptf

Makes sense , they’re main concern should be the ability to provide enough power through vrms reliably, heat management is for the user to take care of


Yet in that video nothing is stoping that cpu , guess we can’t blame nzxt , nor intel , perhaps it’s okay for overclocking oriented boards



I mean he intentionally put a tiny cooler on the cpu , just a test I guess nothing to be worried about

In the Anandtech review I linked it shows that the firmware on this board is wonky AND that it can turn off safety features.

As for Intel and its limitations, you can push beyond but you will degrade the CPU much faster. The limits are there to keep them in good order for a looong time. Hitting 100C still wont damage it 'much' but keep exceeding and it'll surely want more volts sooner rather than later. Also, you have to consider other ICs around the socket...

The whole video was him putting a terrible stock cooler on and showing how it'd go bad, the BIOS being erratic and not obeying the temp limits was the real talking point

Shame there is zero in depth info or research added to his conclusion the temp was 115C. Its all about clickbait really.

 

[lexluthermiester]

It's NZXT, they never had proper QC and engineering.

That is an opinion only. You can't possibly know that.

I thought it was a common knowledge.

It's not because that is assumption and rumor.

 

[The red spirit]

That is an opinion only. You can't possibly know that.

It's not because that is assumption and rumor.

And they failed to make airflow in H510 case... To be honest, NZXT really has a reputation of shoddy engineering. With cases, fans, AIOs and now with boards, they have never striked me as dependable brand.

 

[lexluthermiester]

To be honest, NZXT really has a reputation of shoddy engineering.

Only recently.

 

[The red spirit]

Only recently.

Depends on how recently is your "recently", I haven't had a positive impression about them for a very long time, like since 2012 or so.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Depends on how recently is your "recently", I haven't had a positive impression about them for a very long time, like since 2012 or so.

That is your experience. Not everyone has had the same.

 

[Ferd]

Hitting 100C still wont damage it 'much' but keep exceeding and it'll surely want more volts sooner rather than later. Also, you have to consider other ICs around the socket...

Yeah the vrms will probably fail earlier than they should ... that cpu is probably getting less and less efficient at those temps , pulling more and more power ..
As you said it’s a shame that he didn’t go in depth , I posted this out of curiosity and I got a lot of useful answers....

 

[Vayra86]

Depends on how recently is your "recently", I haven't had a positive impression about them for a very long time, like since 2012 or so.

NZXT is and has always been form over function... but never outright 'bad', even this board isn't bad, its just weird af. You're just paying a premium for unique design language and mediocre product.

 

[The red spirit]

NZXT is and has always been form over function... but never outright 'bad', even this board isn't bad, its just weird af. You're just paying a premium for unique design language and mediocre product.

And I perceive that as bad.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Yeah the vrms will probably fail earlier than they should ...

Lots of boards are built that way, not just NZXTs. And for the record, VRMs are designed to operate at a temp range of -140C to 170C, depending on the brand and specs. 110C is not going to do them any harm, short or long term. However, adding heatsinks to them is an option of anyone is not comfortable with that temp range.

EDIT: Forgot the " - " before the 140C to indicate a negative temp value..

 

[Ferd]

Lots of boards are built that way, not just NZXTs. And for the record, VRMs are designed to operate at a temp range of 140C - 170C, depending on the brand and specs. 110C is not going to do them any harm, short or long term. However, adding heatsinks to them is an option of anyone is not comfortable with that temp range.

Yes , usually they hover around 115C “recommended rating “ , but there’s no specific number, each mosfet is designed differently and has a specific rating set by the manufacturer...
If I remember correctly smd mosfets have higher ratings, because they dissipate some heat through the pcb , but that can sometimes become a problem if there are other circuits dumping heat to the pcb , mosfets start absorbing heat from the board and adding that to their own heat leads to a drop in current capability (According to a few datasheets I’ve read before ) ... that’s the only reason I was thinking it could lead to problems, otherwise you’re right , most of the times they’re fine

 

[The red spirit]

Lots of boards are built that way, not just NZXTs. And for the record, VRMs are designed to operate at a temp range of 140C - 170C, depending on the brand and specs. 110C is not going to do them any harm, short or long term. However, adding heatsinks to them is an option of anyone is not comfortable with that temp range.

I highly disagree with that. If you break down VRMs by components and look at their lifespan ratings at specific temperatures, you will most likely going to see 50k hours at 85 or 105C. Also chokes, caps and MOSFETs have like massively higher lifespan for each degree lost. Just losing 10C can make them last 150k hours. Here is Asus being cheerful about doing VRM lifespan calculations:

ASUS Motherboard - 78 Times Longer Lifespan than Expected!

If you go above 105C, then your VRM lifespan is cut dramatically. At 150-170C range VRMs start to discolour, distort or straight up melt PCB. 140-170C is absolutely not acceptable and is way out of spec. 110C is bearable, obviously poor temperature, but shouldn't fail exactly fast, still board with such temps will not last long. Not to mention, that higher temperatures lead to less efficiency, which further increases temperatures.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I highly disagree with that.

You may disagree all you want. The manufacturing specs will just smile and keep right on going.

Also chokes, caps and MOSFETs have like massively higher lifespan for each degree lost.

I didn't mention those parts, I was talking exclusively about Voltage Regulation Modules. Other parts have their own tolerances.

If you go above 105C, then your VRM lifespan is cut dramatically.

That depends on how they are made, what they are made of and who is making them. MOST motherboard makers choose VRMs that have the upper temp range tolerances. 105C is nothing to many of them.

At 150-170C range VRMs start to discolour, distort or straight up melt PCB.

That is complete BS. Leave the engineering to the experts.

140-170C is absolutely not acceptable and is way out of spec.

Ok. Sure thing there..

ASUS Motherboard - 78 Times Longer Lifespan than Expected!

BTW, that is a page talking about capacitors(electrolytic VS Solid State), not VRMs. Stop with the deceptive posting or the mods will be asked to rope you in.