Is my SSD killing Windows? [UPDATE: fixed]

[qubit]

Ok ED I'll do Atto cuz you asked. Just gimme a few hours.

 

[EarthDog]

Dont do it because I asked, do it because it was the right program to run in the first place to get MFG ratings so you have valid data sets tom compare it to. People tend to avoid HD Tune and HD Tach because they are made for HDDs and not SSDs (they may have been updated, but we don't touch them for SSDs). That is why I mentioned the applications we stick to.

Also, Samsung Magician is not "lying" about the performance. You mentioned you had it in rapid mode... that is the reason for the results you are seeing the results you did. Don't test with rapid mode enabled.

 

[qubit]

Before we get on to the main post: this evening I've noticed some Windows Explorer crashes (ie desktop) and restarts, similar to what I saw initially with the SSD, so something still isn't quite stable. I've got a different (yellow!) SATA cable connected instead of the original grey one and am still using the slow-ass WD Green as the system drive (I'm a glutton for punishment, I confess).

It doesn't look like I'm out of the woods yet so I'm gonna try the other Marvell port after I finish writing this post and I'll also bench it. I'll also run memtest at some point too, but I expect that to pass as I've run it several times in the past with perfect results every time.

for as many that are used, it is very rare to have a sata cable go bad or be bad. That said, I am still certain they are all QC tested before they leave the factory.

They can go bad over time though, especially with too much flexing, so a SATA cable failure isn't unheard of and I've had one or two fail before. Also, the contacts can oxidize and bits of the plastic part of the connector break off so that they sit all loose and crooked. Thise get binned sharpish.

Dont do it because I asked, do it because it was the right program to run in the first place to get MFG ratings so you have valid data sets tom compare it to. People tend to avoid HD Tune and HD Tach because they are made for HDDs and not SSDs (they may have been updated, but we don't touch them for SSDs). That is why I mentioned the applications we stick to.

Also, Samsung Magician is not "lying" about the performance. You mentioned you had it in rapid mode... that is the reason for the results you are seeing the results you did. Don't test with rapid mode enabled.

Ok, here goes and yes, the result is quite different to HD Tune - ED 1, qubit 0.

I basically ran HD Tune in non-destructive read mode as a quick rough and ready test to see the difference between the ports rather than as an absolute benchmark of read/write performance. Note that I ran the HD Tune tests with RAPID mode off and stated it in the post. I only benched RAPID mode with Samsung Magician later and compared the difference. Also @IamEzio was kind enough to explain that RAPID mode is a ramdisc cache - something which I shoulda googled to be honest. I'm so lazy, lol.

Anyway, on to our tests. I ran the latest v3.05 ATTO benchmark at default settings and ran both controllers with RAPID mode off, plus also the Intel controller with RAPID mode on for comparison.

Intel 3Gb/s port - read speed is just about where one might expect it to be and looks a lot better than that quick and dirty HD Tune test.

Marvell 6Gb/s port - read speed a lot less than expected at 350MB/s when I would have expected it to sit at around the 500MB/s mark. I guess it's connected via a slow bus after all. I didn't care about this when I bought the mobo in late 2011 as I was using HDDs, but it makes a helluva difference with SSDs as we can see here. I'll be looking closely at this aspect of mobo performance for my next build. Perhaps installing a Marvell driver will help here and might even improve stability perhaps.

Intel 3Gb/s RAPID mode on. Just look at that data fly! I guess this could give a nice real world performance boost under just the right circumstances.

 

[qubit]

I've now switched to the other Marvell port so let's see how stable the PC is on it. I've also benched it and gotten the same performance, so the first one is most likely working perfectly well. It could be that there's something funny with my Windows installation or perhaps RAM that's causing this Explorer weirdness.

 

[EarthDog]

Are those default settings? I don't recall 512k length, or anything over 8mb... or 16mb lengths.

I see the QD is 4 as well (suggested to run it at 10).

I'll look more when I'm not mobile.

 

[qubit]

Yes, those are default ATTO settings. Perhaps you're using an older version which uses different parameters?

Anyway, no rush.

 

[tabascosauz]

@qubit I'm sorry for saying earlier that RST doesn't boost AHCI performance. after installing latest RST, my boot and shutdown times have drastically decreased.

I think the main issue behind these Marvell and other third party SATA controllers is that they have really bad latency (I think, or maybe the bandwidth is just so bad). I've had a board or two with these and its annoying to think that they "should" be 6Gbps ports but suck more than an Intel 3Gbps port.

 

[EarthDog]

Quby,

I think I see where I was coming from here... I thought your native Intel port was 6Gbps...they are 3Gbps. So the marvell 6gbps would of course be faster. Now, if you had a native 6gbps port (runs off the chipset) it would beat out the Marvell/ASMedia controllers.

Perhaps installing a Marvell driver will help here and might even improve stability perhaps.

Umm, YEAH!!!! Makes sense to install the driver if you are using those ports!!!!

 

[jsfitz54]

New Samsung Magician 4.9 released, FYI. http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/minisite/SSD/global/html/support/downloads.html

See info at:
http://www.thessdreview.com/daily-n...ion-4-9-adds-support-for-samsung-750-evo-ssd/

 

[qubit]

Quby,

I think I see where I was coming from here... I thought your native Intel port was 6Gbps...they are 3Gbps. So the marvell 6gbps would of course be faster. Now, if you had a native 6gbps port (runs off the chipset) it would beat out the Marvell/ASMedia controllers.

Umm, YEAH!!!! Makes sense to install the driver if you are using those ports!!!!

Ok, had another bsod at startup. This time it's with the same SSD (I only have one, lol) with a different cable on the other Marvell port. Note that with the WD Green on that port it never bsodded once and that's with the same OS imaged from one drive to the other.

I guess it's time to see about a Marvell driver and to try memtest. <sigh> I just can't be bothered with all this. I reckon there's a hardware fault with the mobo that's not gonna be possible to fully pin down.

Once I do those two things and the PC passes memtest, I'll try the Intel port, but I won't be happy with the performance loss I can tell you.

 

[EarthDog]

I reckon there's a hardware fault with the mobo that's not gonna be possible to fully pin down.

I don't reckon that... Install the damn driver before you worry about memtest...


EDIT: Wait... is your Z68 board a B3 version? If it isn't you may actually be correct... by accident. LOL! I say that because if you remember, Z68 had that errata where, eventually, you would lose SATA ports (the more you used, the quicker it would show up).

 

[qubit]

Hey you, I'm never correct by accident! I've got a nose for these things, I tell ya.

I'm feeling really lazy, so do you know where it shows the revision number on the mobo, before I start pulling everything off it to find it?

Oh and I'll install the damn driver!

EDIT: I think it is the B3 version as I remember the issue now and I wanted to avoid it. I still can't get out of checking though, lol.

 

[EarthDog]

LOL, yeah, install the driver first.. I don't think its the memory...

Have you mentioned the BSOD code? Checked your system events?

 

[qubit]

You know what, I'm not gonna bother with this Marvell port any more. I can't seem to find the model number of the chip anywhere to get the latest one off the Marvell site and the driver off the Asus site is from 2010 so I don't have confidence in it.

In my Googling, I came across this thread on Another Forum where the user is having a somewhat similar problem with file corruption on these ports (different Asus mobo, but I'm extrapolating here) so perhaps it's time to give up on this port. It's not giving the full 6Gb/s performance anyway and the benchie above didn't show it to be hugely faster than the Intel native one anyway. Next mobo I buy I'm gonna specifically look at the SATA performance and what chipsets are used to try and avoid ever getting this crap again.

www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-1744725/ssd-issues-marvell-sata-controller.html

I don't think it's the RAM or CPU memory controller either, but it won't hurt to run memtest for a while when I get a moment. It's just finding that moment with a PC I use all the time...

Right, here goes, gonna switch off the PC and switch to the Intel port. If you never see me again you'll know that it didn't work.

 

[qubit]

Ok, I'm back, apologies to everyone lol.

Looking at the manual, I've realized that there are two Intel 6GB/s ports on there (grey mobo connectors) so I've plugged the SSD into one of those and we'll see how it goes.

Oh and I get full performance too:

 

[EarthDog]

Oy on missing you had intel 6gbps ports...

 

[qubit]

Oy on missing you had intel 6gbps ports...

Oh I'm terrible for forgetting things, lol. Of course I knew of it previously, but just forgot about it over time as I didn't really have to refer to it.

Booted up the PC a couple of times and no problems so far...

 

[EarthDog]

You do have the intel chipset drivers installed, right?

 

[qubit]

Yes.

EDIT

PC feels noticeably snappier on the desktop since I connected the SSD to the Intel 6G port, too. No difference since installing the driver though and it benches the same in ATTO.

 

[EarthDog]

Glad we got your setup corrected. Hopefully, on the right ports and rivers you stop getting the bsod.

 

[jsfitz54]

No one thought to mention to you to use the Intel Grey sata ports with 6GB/s because we all assumed you knew better.

Next time we wants pictures.

SO... bad cable and bad port sums it up or you don't know yet?

 

[EarthDog]

I said it earlier to use the sata 6gbps ports... he said he didn't have any!

Or... I assumed it thinking he would use what he is supposed to out of the gate..

 

[qubit]

Glad we got your setup corrected. Hopefully, on the right ports and rivers you stop getting the bsod.

Cheers matey, appreciate the help. Two heads are always better than one and I've learned something about the big performance hit one can see on a third party "6Gb/s" port that doesn't actually deliver said speed.

No one thought to mention to you to use the Intel Grey sata ports with 6GB/s because we all assumed you knew better.

Next time we wants pictures.

SO... bad cable and bad port sums it up or you don't know yet?

I do know better, I'd just forgotten about it and I did figure it out on my own. C'mon dude don't crucify me for being a fallible human, lol. Anyway, the point of this thread was to troubleshoot the Marvell port/cable/SSD not just find a quickie workaround, which I did.

btw, there's a JMicron SATA port on there, too.

At this point, I can say that the cable is very likely faulty or marginal and it was coupled to a slightly suspect port. Hence, it might just work ok on the Intel port and I could reconnect it to see what happens, but no, I don't wanna go through that hassle again over a cheap cable, hehe. Every time there's a bsod it fucks up Windows that little bit more until it needs to be scrapped and reinstalled clean so I just don't need that headache.

That bsod now is so intermittent (like in the past, sometimes only happening once every several days) that it's really hard to get a positive diagnosis of it, but what I've seen over time, not just this thread, does somewhat suggest that it's not quite right. If it's really connected via PCI-E, then it really doesn't take much for there to be a translation error between the interfaces which corrupts data on rare occasions, especially with consumer grade equipment like this.

Now I'm on the Intel port, I'm confident I've seen the back of these crashes. Until tomorrow. Kidding.

EDIT @EarthDog , just seen your post at 1:05. The bold bit applies to your comment as well, as you guys seem a little confused over the intention of this thread.

 

[Mussels]

Ok, I'm back, apologies to everyone lol.

Looking at the manual, I've realized that there are two Intel 6GB/s ports on there (grey mobo connectors) so I've plugged the SSD into one of those and we'll see how it goes.

Oh and I get full performance too:

you derpface.

 

[RealNeil]

you derpface.

LOL!