Laser Printer With High (Initial) Current Draw - Any Way To Buffer?

[Bill_Bright]

Anyhow, it feels like we keep going around in circles here. I figured someone might have something to suggest, but if it's just going to be me trying to argue the merits of my concern, maybe this thread is done.

We are going around in circles. It is not about the merits of your concerns. It is that you don't want to, or can't (because you don't own the place) accept any of the suggestions given. And that is due, in part, because you don't want to accept that this is no more than an annoyance.

Your printer is NOT faulty. So there is nothing to fix there. You checked your outlets and they are all wired correctly. You don't own the place so you cannot add more circuits.

I realize your UPS are not switching over to battery. But they apparently are detecting the anomaly (likely a low voltage event or sag), but its duration is too quick to flip to battery. But they are still alarming. Perhaps you can silence their alarms. I can via the software menus, or UPS front panel displays. Or temporarily connect a computer and change the sensitivity.

If you don't want to do any of that - then yes, we are back full circle and it is time for you to move to a new place.

 

[The Egg]

Your printer is NOT faulty. So there is nothing to fix there.

Correct. I never claimed the printer was "faulty", per se (notice how I've never mentioned replacing it). It's simply causing a condition I don't care for (yes, mostly an annoyance) and was hoping someone with electrical knowledge might know of a way to mitigate that.

We are going around in circles. It is not about the merits of your concerns. It is that you don't want to, or can't (because you don't own the place) accept any of the suggestions given.

What suggestions, exactly? I haven't seen anything aside from "adjust the sensitvity on your UPS's", which does nothing to alleviate my actual concern; it just masks what's happening from being brought to my attention. More or less putting my fingers in my ears and going "la-la-la-la-la".

I guess I've also seen "reduce the load on the circuit" a good 4-5 times, despite me repeating that I've tested with near-zero load (8 amps on a 15 or 20 amp circuit) in nearly every post. I'm starting to feel like I'm stuck in a room with dementia patients. Why don't we just lock the thread and call it done.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

that explains the lights dimming.

Uh huh and if the lights are on a separate circuit and they're dimming, then there's bigger problems.

Safety first!

 

[R-T-B]

Even if his apartment is 50 years old, the code back then stated they all should handle 15A.

Not entirely true.

I live in a house from that era at present. At least in Washington, outlets intended for lighting (often but not always tied to a switch) were allowed to be wired for 10A.

that explains the lights dimming.

Yes. It's also a sign he's on a circuit wired under lighting 10Amp regulations PLUS running lighting load. Couple that with an old tired breaker, and I could see 8 amps getting weird.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I live in a house from that era at present. At least in Washington, outlets intended for lighting (often but not always tied to a switch) were allowed to be wired for 10A.

Wow. That's low. I knew in older homes that was possible but not from the late 60's. I failed to follow my own advise and do my homework. The NEC standards were not implemented nationwide until the 70s. Thanks.
Still, 8A is under 10A and "should" not be a problem, "assuming" (and I know that's a bad word too) all is in good repair. The outlet checker, while not 100% conclusive, is pretty close. It, at lease would detect a bad (or missing) ground and reverse polarity.

and was hoping someone with electrical knowledge might know of a way to mitigate that.

Well, you can follow the link in my sig and see that I do have a little experience.

The problem, again, with us not being able to offer you any satisfactory solutions to mitigate your concern is there does not appear to be any real problem that needs mitigating.

What suggestions, exactly? I haven't seen anything aside from "adjust the sensitvity on your UPS's"
I guess I've also seen "reduce the load on the circuit"

You haven't seen any?

1. We suggested redistributing the load on the circuit - you've checked that.
2. We suggested making sure the printer is not connected to a UPS - you said it was not.
3. We suggested connecting the printer to a good surge and spike protector - no response provided.
4. We suggested checking your outlet wiring - you did that.
5. We suggested changing the sensitivity of the UPS - you refuse to even give it try despite the fact UPS manuals state scenarios like this is one of the reasons for such sensitivity settings.
6. We suggested moving the printer to another room in the house - you don't want to do that or, apparently, even try it in the bedroom to see if it helps.
7. We suggested moving the printer to a different circuit - you said that is not possible.
8. We suggested a ink jet - you refuse to even consider it.
9. We suggested adding circuits - not possible as you don't own the place.
10. We suggested just moving.

And now, when you don't hear what you want to hear (in part, because you have your fingers stuck in your ears while you go "la-la-la-la-la" ), you insinuate we are a bunch of dementia patients not listening to you!

So I see no reason we should be wasting any more of our valuable volunteer free time trying to help when our efforts are not appreciated and our words fall on fingers that are blocking deaf ears.

Good luck with your "problem". I sincerely do hope you are able to resolve it.

 

[newtekie1]

We missed the suggestion that he put the printer on a good surge protector. That helped greatly in my home built in the 1960s.

But in the end, you're right, there is no problem. The voltage is likely sagging to maybe 100v, at the worst 90v, and any piece of equipment that is manufactured at least half way decently is not going to be damaged by dipping to those voltages for a fraction of a second. In fact, the power supplies in any equipment should have a hold up time that is easily long enough to handle that minor of a dip.

 

[Bill_Bright]

We missed the suggestion that he put the printer on a good surge protector.

Added. Thanks.

The voltage is likely sagging to maybe 100v, at the worst 90v

This is an important point too. I note in PowerChute, my monitoring program for the APC on this UPS, I can change the high and low voltages where the UPS "intervenes". So simply changing that to 88V could make a difference too. Not on the lights flickering, of course. But on the UPS alarming.

So suggestion number 11. Lower the low voltage threshold for UPS intervention.

In fact, the power supplies in any equipment should have a hold up time that is easily long enough to handle that minor of a dip.

It should be noted that ATX compliant computer power supplies are required to "hold up" output voltages for any outage (or sag below 90VAC) that has a duration of at least 17ms.

 

[The Egg]

You haven't seen any?
(List)

Thing is, those 9 things aren't actually solutions. They either fall under "testing the building", aren't viable (moving, rewiring), or don't actually solve anything (silencing the UPS's). Yes, moving to a different circuit isolates the issue (I mentioned testing on the A/C circuit multiple times), and no, I'd prefer not to locate the printer in my bedroom or run an extension cord. You can imagine I was already aware I could do those things before creating the thread, and decided to seek out other options.

The problem, again, with us not being able to offer you any satisfactory solutions to mitigate your concern is there does not appear to be any real problem that needs mitigating

You do realize that's just your opinion? Lets say you had 20k of sensitive audio equipment. Would you be comfortable with me connecting my printer to the same circuit and firing it up while all your stuff is going? It's a problem if I say it's a problem. This is all my equipment, and the behavior is not desirable regardless of what the printer's spec sheet says.

So I see no reason we should be wasting any more of our valuable volunteer free time trying to help...

I get it. I've been a regular at many forums for a long time before I came to TPU, generally doing much more answering than the asking. At the same time, you have to understand that it's quite frustrating to see multiple people continue to state the obvious, repeat the same thing ("reduce the load on the circuit", after it's been clearly refuted multiple times), or tell me "you don't have a problem" when that's my call to make. I DO appreciate everyone's time, but we're not really getting anywhere productive.

 

[Bill_Bright]

You do realize that's just your opinion?

It is not my opinion. It is a technical fact. You tested your printer and you found for yourself, that it is NOT demanding too much current. You tested your outlets and claim they are properly wired.

Just because it is YOUR opinion that it is a "problem", "technically" speaking, it is not.

If your car is rated to get 25mpg and it is getting 27mpg, it is NOT a "problem" (technically speaking) just because you want it to get 30mpg.

Lets say you had 20k of sensitive audio equipment. Would you be comfortable with me connecting my printer to the same circuit and firing it up while all your stuff is going?

Audiophile quality audio reproduction equipment was my first love as a technician in consumer electronics, long before I got into computers. It is still a very close second. If my ears were not 67 years old and I didn't work next to a military flightline (and very loud jet engines) for 24+ years, it would still be #1.

I don't have $20K of sensitive audio equipment but believe it or not, if you include my speakers and my OLED TV, I come pretty close to $20K. And no I would not be comfortable connecting a laser printer to the same circuit. So I WOULDN'T DO IT!

Just like I would not connect my coffee pot, refrigerator, microwave oven or toaster to that circuit either.

So my advice and suggestion to you is, DON'T DO IT!

I get that you are in a pickle here. You love your laser printer and I don't blame you. But you don't own your home and you don't have the luxury of being able to put all your electronics on their own isolated circuits. So what are your options? (1) Get an ink jet. (2) Move. (3) Learn to live with it.

It does not matter to me which of those 3 you do. But for sure, blaming your frustration and lack of getting anything productive out of this discussion on us, when clearly it is you refusing to accept the advice and suggestions "multiple people" in this thread have offered, really just is not cool. It is not our fault you choose to live where you do. It is not our fault you insist on using a power-hungry laser printing device. And it is not our fault you have $20K of sensitive audio gear on the same circuits.

I feel your pain. I really do! And I wish we could change your scenario, or change your mind. It is clear we can do neither. But that is not our fault either.

 

[dorsetknob]

I get that you are in a pickle here. You love your laser printer and I don't blame you. But you don't own your home and you don't have the luxury of being able to put all your electronics on their own isolated circuits. So what are your options? (1) Get an ink jet. (2) Move. (3) Learn to live with it.

He Could Buy a 1KVA Stand by Gen just for his printer no one has Suggested that

 

[newtekie1]

It's a problem if I say it's a problem.

No, it's not.

 

[hurakura]

get an extension cord and plug it into your neighbours wall socket.

 

[The Egg]

It's a problem if I say it's a problem.

No, it's not.

Well that settles it then. These inanimate objects weren't put here (by me) just to behave as I'd like them to. So long as the numbers in the manual say it's performing within spec, I need to change my opinion and desired behavior to conform to that. Problem solved. Thanks everyone.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I need to change my opinion and desired behavior to conform to that

That's just a fact of life and life lesson I'm afraid. Adapt and overcome, or don't adapt and fail.

 

[The Egg]

I have seen the light (‘s flicker).

 

[Bill_Bright]

LOL

 

[Grog6]

You said it worked if it was on the AC plug.

Can you work out a timesharing approach to using that plug?
Not having the AC on when you use the printer?

Otherwise, the thing to do is figure out the loads on all the circuits you have, and combine the sensetive loads on one or two circuits, leaving the lighting loads, and things like the microwave or stove on the one you use with the Printer.

If you can get it on a circuit with nothing else but lights, then it will work out.


The reason the printer uses a bunch of power when you power it on is it's heating up the fusor unit; the little oven-like section that fuses the toner to the paper.
If that unit goes out, the toner will form letters, but will blow off like dust; I've fixed those before, lol.

There's also a High Voltage power supply that charges up, that puts the static charge on the toner drum, but that's minimal.

It also cycles all the feed motors around, looking for errors; those use a fair amount of power too, and they usually are sequenced, except on startup; they want to know in 10 seconds or so if something wrong.

Good luck with it!

There's usually a plug on the stove; it draws from one leg of the 220V stove power usually, so it's a good heavy use outlet, if you have one.
That's what I plug power tools into; mine is fused for 15A, so it's a good one.

 

[ambercapuchin]

I have seen the light (‘s flicker).

Hey there. I see you've been gaslighted into believing laser printers are supposed to make lights flicker as well. I've been searching this same issue lately and I've concluded that laser printer manufacturers don't want to spend the extra cash on "edge case" customers. The idea being if you spend serious dollars on a printer you'll be in an office with high current capability. We are not worth adding $10 in components and 3 seconds to warm-up time to their printers. Luckily, I built a tube amp in junior college electronics class... (why the "pro's" here are hypnotized by Brother idk)
If you want to design your own cheaply: https://www.instructables.com/Soft-Starter-Inrush-Current-Limiter-for-AC-and-DC-/
If you want to buy a super cheap one-off that might work: https://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-371468-Soft-Start-C10Rj/dp/B07DTBTS9D
Plug it in, it go:https://www.raymondinnovations.com/products/c10

Figure out what your peak draw is on that stupid beast, find a combination of thermister/cap/inductor that get's you to 75% of that and make it adjustable by 25% with a simple potentiometer. watch your printer slow down when it needs to heat powder to goo by a noticeable amount. yay win. c10 is uL listed if you want to do the safe thing.

Cheers!

 

[lexluthermiester]

Hey Guys. I have a small laser printer (Brother HL-2270DW) which has an uncomfortable amount of initial current draw when first powered on. My wall meter only shows a max of 950 watts (8 amps), but apparently it's enough of a sudden jolt to momentarily set off multiple UPS's in my apartment and cause a change in the lights. It's also very likely that my wall meter isn't refreshing fast enough to show the true momentary max draw (the spec sheet says it updates only once per second). Separately, a Dyson vacuum measuring 10 amps at the wall does NOT cause the same problem, though it appears to take a few seconds to ramp up to full draw.

I'm in a 50-60 year old building, but I expect the wiring is fairly decent. The breaker panels look brand new (though they were changed before I got here 10 years ago), so some amount of updating has been done relatively recently. I have a 100 amp main to my unit, and a mixture of 15 and 20 amp circuits. The printer will cause this behavior even when there is near-zero load elsewhere.

In any case, in-wall wiring is beyond my control, so please don't suggest nonsense like telling the landlord to gut and re-wire the whole building. Barring that, is there any sort of relatively cheap/easy method to buffer the brief initial current draw??

Get yourself a quality UPS and plug the printer into it alone. This will instantly solve your problem as most quality UPS units act as a buffer between the devices they power and the wall power.

 

[Frick]

Woo necroing.

We are not worth adding $10 in components and 3 seconds to warm-up time to their printers.

This is, perhaps sadly, correct. You're not worth it. But yeah someone probably should have mentioned inrush current limiters. It's a solved problem. I have no idea how it would affect the printer (longer warm up time?) though.

The circuits aren't labeled at the breaker box,

I don't know what the rules say where you live, but this is really, really terrible and should absolutely be sorted out by the landlord. It's such a basic thing.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Get yourself a quality UPS and plug the printer into it alone.

@lexluthermiester - Please note first, the OP's post you quoted was from way back in Nov 2019. The brand new poster prior to you suspiciously necroed this long dormant thread with his one and only post - long after the OP's problem was resolved.

Second, I note laser printers should not be connected to a UPS. Most if not all UPS makers advise against connecting a laser printer to a UPS due to their excessive current demands. And some warn doing so can damage the UPS and void the warranty. For example, as noted in the CyberPower FAQs,

Can I Connect My UPS to a Laser Jet Printer?​

FAQ Category: UPS

Laser printers use a very high amount of power and can easily overload your UPS. Overloads of this type can damage your UPS. As such we ask that you do not plug laser printers in to the battery backed outlets of the UPS.

Warranty Note:
If your UPS fails while a laser printer is plugged in to the battery backed outlets we will be unable to provide warranty service.

APC FAQ include similar advice,

Issue:

What are APC's recommendations for protecting Laser Printers?

Product Line:

SurgeArrest, Back-UPS and Back-UPS PRO

Cause:

Due to the large amount of power consumed by these devices, APC does not recommend protecting laser printers with a UPS.

In fact, the APC FAQ goes on to say,

...the high current draw of a Laser Printer can "sag" the utility line causing low voltage situations. The Laser Printer should not be plugged into a UPS's Battery Outlets OR in to its Surge Only Outlets. These low voltage situations may cause an APC Back-UPS to transfer to battery operation repeatedly, eventually exhausting the unit's internal battery unnecessarily.

If you must use a UPS with a Laser Printer it is important to size your UPS appropriately.

We do not recommend the use of Back-UPS products with a laser printer.

I note the Back-UPS series is one of their most popular lines commonly used by home users due to their more affordable prices. The Back-UPS series is great for computers and network gear, but not laser printing devices.

As I noted back in 2019 in this thread for the OP's laser printer,

If you look at your user guide on page 126, it says the instantaneous peak power consumption for your printer is 1,056W!

1056 Watts is a huge amount! Using the standard watts to voltamps conversion formula (W = VA x PF or VA = W/PF) where PF is .6 (unless otherwise specified), it would require a massive UPS of at least 1760VA. A quality UPS of that size would be expensive just for the printer.

Therefore, as recommended back in 2019, the better solution is to use a quality UPS on the computer and network equipment, protecting the computer from power anomalies from all sources, not just the laser printer.

 

[Jism]

Yeah, i was about to write it, but in worst case you can blow the fets inside your UPS that could leave some nasty smoke or even fire if the UPS is bad already.

Switch printer then; if the startup current is such a issue. We have a Aircon here as well; we use it for heating (reversed). Once the compressor starts up it pretty much dampens the whole house in relation of surge.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Switch printer then

Again, the OPs problem was resolved long ago! This necroed thread needs to die - again.