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Looks like SteamOS could be dead in the water already - up to 58% less performance than Windows

qubit

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Ouch, this isn't the news we want to hear. You'd think that after all this development that the platform would be significantly more refined than this wouldn't you? We need some good competition for Windows.

No matter how you slice it, running these two high-end titles on SteamOS comes with a sizable frame rate hit; we got anywhere from 21- to 58-percent fewer frames per second, depending on the graphical settings. On our hardware running Shadow of Mordor at Ultra settings and HD resolution, the OS change alone was the difference between a playable 34.5 fps average on Windows and a stuttering 14.6 fps mess on SteamOS

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/...gnificant-performance-hit-for-steamos-gaming/

UPDATE

When I made this post I only had time to skim the article. Having looked at it and seeing people's posts on here, there certainly seems to be something a little suspicious with the weird setup and choice of games used.
 
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Easy Rhino

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Well the DirectX to OpenGL application they wrote is far from perfect. Also, many developers have been known to do a poor job coding games with OpenGL.
 

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Open GL is kinda dead really. However with Vulkan API making it much easier to port and being very similar to DX12. Current Gen titles suffer however future titles should be just fine. Also one problem... They tested Nvidia only.... Why no AMD benchmarks??? I know Nvidia holds about 80% market share but still.
 

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Take it with a grain of salt. I don't doubt that their frames went down, but gosh, look at the hardware!

A 3220 and a GTX 660, and they ran it on ultra. Good grief...that is NOT what the average user who runs SteamOS with that hardware setup should be shooting for. The medium and high settings are more realistic, and playable. Sounds like fearmongering on Ars' part.

Just my thoughts of course.
 

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Open GL is kinda dead really. However with Vulkan API making it much easier to port and being very similar to DX12. Current Gen titles suffer however future titles should be just fine.

It has to get better if Valve hopes to bring more titles to SteamOS (Linux). You can't fault them yet though since the tech is immature.
 

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It has to get better if Valve hopes to bring more titles to SteamOS (Linux). You can;t fault them yet though since the tech is immature.

I am not faulting them they are at least trying something different to break away from the same old cycle but I digress data seems a bit premature. No AMD CPU / GPU and only 1 NVIDIA GPU. So we only have a single driver and single GPU to go by at the moment anyway.

Also whats with the weird 1792x 1160 resolution. I know some drivers / GPU did weird things at custom resolutions etc. Remember the 1080p 1200p 1050p differences where in some game engines game performance better at 1080 then it did 1050 / 1200 etc. So more than a few things need to be better looked at I feel. I have no doubt Win 10 performance is better. Thats not really up for debate but alot of stuff with the articles coming from Ars seem a bit off..
 

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I am not faulting them they are at least trying something different to break away from the same old cycle but I digress data seems a bit premature. No AMD CPU / GPU and only 1 NVIDIA GPU. So we only have a single driver and single GPU to go by at the moment anyway.

Also whats with the weird 1792x 1160 resolution. I know some drivers / GPU did weird things at custom resolutions etc. Remember the 1080p 1200p 1050p differences where in some game engines game performance better at 1080 then it did 1050 / 1200 etc. So more than a few things need to be better looked at I feel. I have no doubt Win 10 performance is better. Thats not really up for debate but alot of stuff with the articles coming from Ars seem a bit off..

And the truth is Microsoft has spent a lot of time and money improving DirectX over the past few years. I have to credit them for finally getting the fundamentals right.
 

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Take it with a grain of salt. I don't doubt that their frames went down, but gosh, look at the hardware!

A 3220 and a GTX 660, and they ran it on ultra. Good grief...that is NOT what the average user who runs SteamOS with that hardware setup should be shooting for. The medium and high settings are more realistic, and playable. Sounds like fearmongering on Ars' part.

Just my thoughts of course.

I'm going to agree with this I have an old amd 620 propus and I paired it with 4GB of kingston and a 750 non-TI and I managed to crank bioshock infinite and it ran fantastic I was literally floored.
 
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I'm going to agree with this I have an old amd 620 propus and I paired it with 4GB of kingston and a 750 non-TI and I managed to crank bioshock infinite and it ran fantastic I was literally floored.

I have been running my Athlon X4 620 Propus since 2009 and it runs all my games fine, still looking for an excuse to upgrade because the performance is still there. Good thing I didn't listen to the Intel fan boys telling me to get dual core E5xxx. But they were FORCED to upgrade when their little dualies stopped scaling.

I'm sure Valve will rectify the problem though. Still early days.
 
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Let's take the cheapest Steam Machine out there, and try to frame this. The cheapest Steam machine is a $499 offering from Syber. Its bare offerings are a 500 GB SATA III HDD, 4 GB of DDR3, a GeForce 750 1 GB, and an Intel i3-4160.

There are only two real differences in my book here. First, the CPU in question doesn't support HT and is slightly higher (600 MHz) clocked. Second the VRAM is double that of what is available on the Steam machine (the transition from 660 to 750 is almost a wash, with generational improvement covering the step down in relative performance).

Edit:
For comparison:
4160 - 3.6 GHz, 2 cores, 4 threads
g3220 - 3.0 GHz, 2 cores, 2 threads


Knowing all of this, should we be concerned? Yes.

Before you start calling this an idiotic point, let's discuss why Steam OS has been handled poorly. As of right now, the only people able to load up Steam OS have to have some technical skills. This isn't windows, where any idiot can pop the disc in and go. Thus, there is no way for someone to just try Steam OS. The trial period for Steam OS is when the Steam machines release. These will be the first boxes that any idiot can buy, and just run. Problem is, the name is starting to cost you. You're looking at a sub $50 HDD, 4 GB DDR3, a $100 processor, and a $100 GPU costing you $500. Sorry, but that's silly. I can't ever see telling anyone I know to spend an extra $100 on a system that's essentially a white box from big box store.

So, Steam OS is tied to crap hardware, for no discernible reason. It isn't relative performance that will damage it, it's the fact that there's a barrier to any idiot installing it. We can argue the ARS piece all day, but the reality is that the Steam machines are releasing with similar specifications. Sorry, but Valve is shooting itself in the foot. I think we can agree that PC gamers aren't stuck with this level of hardware, but that isn't the point. The point is people will be introduced to Steam OS with this level of hardware. I'd like to think Shadows of Mordor being the only game speaks volumes about how little testing was done, but it only takes one or two bad experiences to make people hostile.
 
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Open GL is kinda dead really. However with Vulkan API making it much easier to port and being very similar to DX12. Current Gen titles suffer however future titles should be just fine. Also one problem... They tested Nvidia only.... Why no AMD benchmarks??? I know Nvidia holds about 80% market share but still.

Because AMD linux drivers are shitty as hell.

I say this as an AMD fan.
 

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Before you start calling this an idiotic point, let's discuss why Steam OS has been handled poorly. As of right now, the only people able to load up Steam OS have to have some technical skills. This isn't windows, where any idiot can pop the disc in and go. Thus, there is no way for someone to just try Steam OS. The trial period for Steam OS is when the Steam machines release. These will be the first boxes that any idiot can buy, and just run. Problem is, the name is starting to cost you. You're looking at a sub $50 HDD, 4 GB DDR3, a $100 processor, and a $100 GPU costing you $500. Sorry, but that's silly. I can't ever see telling anyone I know to spend an extra $100 on a system that's essentially a white box from big box store.

So, Steam OS is tied to crap hardware, for no discernible reason. It isn't relative performance that will damage it, it's the fact that there's a barrier to any idiot installing it. We can argue the ARS piece all day, but the reality is that the Steam machines are releasing with similar specifications. Sorry, but Valve is shooting itself in the foot. I think we can agree that PC gamers aren't stuck with this level of hardware, but that isn't the point. The point is people will be introduced to Steam OS with this level of hardware. I'd like to think Shadows of Mordor being the only game speaks volumes about how little testing was done, but it only takes one or two bad experiences to make people hostile.
Exactly. Steam Machine price isn't attractive at all. If Valve doesn't find a way to get volume discounts on hardware to get these machines out the door for bottom dollar, you might as well go buy an Xbox One or PlayStation 4.

If you're spending $400, you might as well just buy a mid-tower with Windows.
 

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yet no one tried it yet? People bitch about AMD drivers on Windows yet still buy and use AMD products. Its semantics.

PS4 = modified Freebsd thats rather similar in its code base to Linux. It also uses AMD hardware just fine.
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/1...ied-version-of-freebsd-thats-similar-to-linux

To omit results because oh such and such sucks. I guess we might as well not included AMD gpus in Nvidia GPU reviews right? thats the line of reasoning basically in a nut shell.

The data should still be tested and documented. You also have AMD preparing new drivers with a new platform UI etc. So it might be time to actually take a look.
 

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I don't need to try it to be appalled by the price. If Valve can't make the sale on price vs value, few will ever try it.

Sony likely takes a loss on PlayStation 4 hardware and that's the only reason why the console model works at all.
 
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Steam got greedy/money hungrier and then this happens.
 
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yet no one tried it yet? People bitch about AMD drivers on Windows yet still buy and use AMD products. Its semantics.

PS4 = modified Freebsd thats rather similar in its code base to Linux. It also uses AMD hardware just fine.
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/1...ied-version-of-freebsd-thats-similar-to-linux

To omit results because oh such and such sucks. I guess we might as well not included AMD gpus in Nvidia GPU reviews right? thats the line of reasoning basically in a nut shell.

The data should still be tested and documented. You also have AMD preparing new drivers with a new platform UI etc. So it might be time to actually take a look.

I can't argue with the point of the article. What I am arguing is that AMD hardware isn't a factor in my concern. I really don't care about AMD hardware, because the Steam machines aren't sporting a huge amount of AMD at the entry level.


I agree with you, testing for AMD optimizations is worth pursuing, but it doesn't matter to the discussion at hand. If Steam OS releases on Steam machines, that are primarily Nvidia driven, then we have a PR problem on our hands.

What I'm trying to say is that AMD and Nvidia don't matter. I want to see the people who buy a Steam machine happy, so we can make PC gaming better. If they see gaming on a Steam machine as crap, then we've got a problem for all of PC gaming.
 

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I am just wondering with AMD pushing Vulkan the successor to Open GL and having been a close partner to Valve up until this point where does their hardware sit on Steam OS? If its Nvidia / OEM deal that puts Nvidia hardware into steam machines and is resulting in performance that is as shown bad but AMD doesnt suffer as badly. That puts the blame on backroom deals so to speak meaning potential users get shafted because the AMD option isnt available. I am not just saying more tests need to be run.

I expected performance to suffer but say Nvidia is 20-58% slower on Open GL. What if AMD is only 10-30%. Is that bad? You Bet but its not nearly as bad a picture as the article states since most developers couldnt give to fucks less about Open GL. I have a feeling Valve is pushing Steam OS and Steam Machines earlier than they want to at this poitn due to OEM pressure aka either we launch or were out / pursuing other options. Its a lose lose situation but more data would be nice before we start carrying pitch forks.
 
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What I'm trying to say is that AMD and Nvidia don't matter. I want to see the people who buy a Steam machine happy, so we can make PC gaming better. If they see gaming on a Steam machine as crap, then we've got a problem for all of PC gaming.

That's my biggest worry as well.
 

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I tried Steam OS on my PC many months ago and came to this same conclusion.
Not sure how this is news when anyone could install Steam OS on a PC and test side by side on an 100% identical system and see that linux is still shit for gaming.
Games rarely work properly on Windows now a days expecting them to work on another OS is laughable.
 

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It is a highly opinionated and absolutely crappy review. While the point of it was not a mystery and I experienced horrors of steamOS firsthand, the actual testing techniques used to prove the point are ridiculous!

1) In order to test SteamOS properly they should've tested it on specs at least closer to the cheapest Steam Machine (i3-4170, 4GB DDR3-1600, GTX 750), not some random hardware pulled from the closet.
2) To be more accurate and objective they should've used RECOMMENDED settings for that spec, not some weird-ass resolution with ultra settings as the only option. This way you can actually see the real-world-every-day performance in both configurations. Ideally every game should be tested on Lowest, Medium and Highest settings, but who out of all respectable reviewers has time for this shit?
3) Not a single OpenGL-native game on the list !!!
4) Not a single decent Linux port on the list. Borderlands 2, Civilization: Beyond Earth, Alien: Isolation... anyone...?

I still agree that Linux is behind in terms of gaming, but lots of progress has been made in the past few years and for the first time in many years I'm quite optimistic.

Steam machines are overpriced, but if you look at Win10 counterparts of the same brand - they are either the same or even more expensive:
Alienware Alpha: $449 vs $499, no $25 rebate, no Payday2, no Steam Controller...
Zotac NEN is not available, but the last price check was around $899. It is $100 more expensive than their MAGNUS EN970, but has an updated Skylake CPU, Steam Controller and more bonuses which almost compensate for the price difference.

...underperforming overpriced hardware in a small package.... but hey, same audience was buying ridiculous Alienware laptops/desktops (more like lapdesks or desklamps) for "hardcore" gaming for almost a decade, so why not tiny boxes?

Give it a year or two and if SteamOS survives, we'll probably see some cheap machines for semi-comfortable casual gaming (Pentium G4400 + GT 930 for $250-300?)
 
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I tried Steam OS on my PC many months ago and came to this same conclusion.
Not sure how this is news when anyone could install Steam OS on a PC and test side by side on an 100% identical system and see that linux is still shit for gaming.
Games rarely work properly on Windows now a days expecting them to work on another OS is laughable.

It's news because we aren't the average consumer.

Seriously, ask your 10 year old to install Steam OS, without destroying your computer. Ask someone 30+ years old. These people can't generally do it. The Steam machines are supposed to change that, just like buying white box computers allowed for people to get introduced to computers in the 90's...


It is a highly opinionated and absolutely crappy review. While the point of it was not a mystery and I experienced horrors of steamOS firsthand, the actual testing techniques used to prove the point are ridiculous!

1) In order to test SteamOS properly they should've tested it on specs at least closer to the cheapest Steam Machine (i3-4170, 4GB DDR3-1600, GTX 750), not some random hardware pulled from the closet.
2) To be more accurate and objective they should've used RECOMMENDED settings for that spec, not some weird-ass resolution with ultra settings as the only option. This way you can actually see the real-world-every-day performance in both configurations. Ideally every game should be tested on Lowest, Medium and Highest settings, but who out of all respectable reviewers has time for this shit?
3) Not a single OpenGL-native game on the list !!!
4) Not a single decent Linux port on the list. Borderlands 2, Civilization: Beyond Earth, Alien: Isolation... anyone...?

I still agree that Linux is behind in terms of gaming, but lots of progress has been made in the past few years and for the first time in many years I'm quite optimistic.

Steam machines are overpriced, but if you look at Win10 counterparts of the same brand - they are either the same or even more expensive:
Alienware Alpha: $449 vs $499, no $25 rebate, no Payday2, no Steam Controller...
Zotac NEN is not available, but the last price check was around $899. It is $100 more expensive than their MAGNUS EN970, but has an updated Skylake CPU, Steam Controller and more bonuses which almost compensate for the price difference.

...underperforming overpriced hardware in a small package.... but hey, same audience was buying ridiculous Alienware laptops/desktops (more like lapdesks or desklamps) for "hardcore" gaming for almost a decade, so why not tiny boxes?

Give it a year or two and if SteamOS survives, we'll probably see some cheap machines for semi-comfortable casual gaming (Pentium G4400 + GT 930 for $250-300?)

You're an idiot. I start with this statement as a caustic introduction, but allow me to frame it. I am not calling you a name, but setting up a situation.

You're an idiot when it comes to computers. Anything more complicated than Facebook, and it's too much frustration for you to deal with. This is why whenever you play games you purchase a console. Plug it in, input a game, and off you go. That's largely what a console has been for the last two decades. Yes modern ones have updating, but that's why consoles are getting more ridiculous.

Here comes Valve with a Steam machine. It offers you the plug and play beauty of a console, with the library and ease of a PC. Heck, it does one better by having its own lightweight operating system, so as to provide better gaming than the bloat of Windows. You're on board with this immediately, until you see the console level price tag.

You get over the investment, and buy a Steam machine. In your experience all consoles provide a minimum level of performance, where you can buy better performance with an upgrade. The upgraded systems don't change things though, they add extra features. Your entry level choice, versus an expanded piece, both play games at your desired resolution without flaws. You therefore buy the entry level box, at $499. You expect to be able to set things as high as you can go, because that's how a console worked.

What you find is unplayable. The screens tearing, jittering, and FPS dropping to sub 30 levels make the game a slide show. You're pissed, so you contact your manufacturer. They respond to turn the graphics down, so you perceive that the Steam machine is less capable than a console. This must mean PC gaming sucks, and it's too much of an investment for you. You can't get a refund, so you ask what kind of upgrades you'll need. The local computer shop sells you a $200 GPU for $300, and you're back to playing your games at the appropriate settings.

In a year, you upgrade to the newest 4k TV, because prices have dropped. You plug the Steam machine in, and discover that at 4k your "upgraded" GPU is dying. Off to the computer shop again, where they upgrade your RAM, CPU, and GPU. You've sunk another $500 into the machine. That means this Steam machine has cost you $1300, whereas the new console costs $400. Upon seeing that, you rage quit the PC market, because it's cost you $1300 for a PC that should have cost you $900 at most.


These kinds of people are what the Steam machine is about. It's not about you or I, who can install the Steam OS now. It isn't about people who want an affordable gaming HTPC. This is about people being soured to PC gaming because Valve has screwed the pooch here. It doesn't matter if Steam OS is great in a year, if PC gaming is perceived as to much of a pain, because Valve couldn't be bothered to have standards, we're all the worse off for it.


As far as the testing system, serious? The difference is a minor increase in frequency and hyperthreading (600 MHz and 2 extra threads). The RAM was actually double that offered on Steam machines. The GPU was one generation older, one level higher, and had twice the VRAM. Beyond the test being for only one game, and the testing conditions being screwy the only thing to complain about is the author deriving generalized conclusions for the OS. I'd be inclined to be on your side, if the rather poor state of Linux gaming wasn't a given. I'd also be inclined to agree if WB games wasn't known for piss poor porting (perma recall of the latest Batman game anyone?). What has been proven is that games "with full Linux support" don't necessarily have it. That's as much of a poison as anything else Valve has injected into this experiment. It honestly seems like they're crippling this intentionally.
 
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As a gamer who still plays Shadow of Modor on my linux machine. It was a terrible choice for performance of what gaming on SteamOS consists of. Using a custom resolution that no TV user will have access to doesn't bode well either. 720p/i or 1080p/i are the resolutions you should test SteamOS(since most people will experience it through Steam machines)in any remotely fair usage scenario. Then consider the lack of AAA or just other games period. Who purchases a gaming system just to play one game. I think a bigger issue lies with Steam machines not having streaming apps like Netflix, Hulu, and HBONow installed. Streaming is a big part of the console experience. Some have smart TVs so it's non factor. However people with TVs who don't have apps built in would like that option as well. It seems Valve wanted to just focus on gaming out of the box. At least the controller is catching Steam.
 
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Let's take the cheapest Steam Machine out there, and try to frame this. The cheapest Steam machine is a $499 offering from Syber. Its bare offerings are a 500 GB SATA III HDD, 4 GB of DDR3, a GeForce 750 1 GB, and an Intel i3-4160.

There are only two real differences in my book here. First, the CPU in question doesn't support HT and is slightly higher (600 MHz) clocked. Second the VRAM is double that of what is available on the Steam machine (the transition from 660 to 750 is almost a wash, with generational improvement covering the step down in relative performance).

Edit:
For comparison:
4160 - 3.6 GHz, 2 cores, 4 threads
g3220 - 3.0 GHz, 2 cores, 2 threads


Knowing all of this, should we be concerned? Yes.

Before you start calling this an idiotic point, let's discuss why Steam OS has been handled poorly. As of right now, the only people able to load up Steam OS have to have some technical skills. This isn't windows, where any idiot can pop the disc in and go. Thus, there is no way for someone to just try Steam OS. The trial period for Steam OS is when the Steam machines release. These will be the first boxes that any idiot can buy, and just run. Problem is, the name is starting to cost you. You're looking at a sub $50 HDD, 4 GB DDR3, a $100 processor, and a $100 GPU costing you $500. Sorry, but that's silly. I can't ever see telling anyone I know to spend an extra $100 on a system that's essentially a white box from big box store.

So, Steam OS is tied to crap hardware, for no discernible reason. It isn't relative performance that will damage it, it's the fact that there's a barrier to any idiot installing it. We can argue the ARS piece all day, but the reality is that the Steam machines are releasing with similar specifications. Sorry, but Valve is shooting itself in the foot. I think we can agree that PC gamers aren't stuck with this level of hardware, but that isn't the point. The point is people will be introduced to Steam OS with this level of hardware. I'd like to think Shadows of Mordor being the only game speaks volumes about how little testing was done, but it only takes one or two bad experiences to make people hostile.
So you have not tried it then i take it ,,its easy to install now(wasn't initially), and due to big picture steam mode and a pad was certainly easy to use, my only concerns were the number of games available not performance.
I used an i7 920 stck and a gtx460 hardly cutting edge yet metro redux for eg ran acceptable.
 
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So you have not tried it then i take it ,,its easy to install now(wasn't initially), and due to big picture steam mode and a pad was certainly easy to use, my only concerns were the number of games available not performance.
I used an i7 920 stck and a gtx460 hardly cutting edge yet metro redux for eg ran acceptable.

I'm stuck here, you either are trolling me, or can't put forward the effort to read.

Yes, I installed Steam OS, back when it was a royal pain in the ass. It took a decent amount of effort, some searching, and more effort than most people are willing to put forward.

Yes, the installer has gotten better. At the same time, show me the .iso. In fact, how about you do some leg work for once. All I can find is the official instruction set (http://store.steampowered.com/steamos/buildyourown), which still says it will erase everything on your HDD. Imagine most people seeing that, they'd avoid it like the plague if all the rest of their data would disappear. Come on, get real.


Where's any information from you? Frame rate, resolution, settings, hell what about the rest of your system. You've provide nothing, but "trust me." Thing is, I don't. No proof, no argument. Until you can get past that simple qualification, nothing you say has merit. I could call a Core2Quad an acceptable CPU if my standards were an ancient CRT monitor and 30 FPS.
 
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