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Memory Timings on nForce3

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#1
I found a guide to understanding DFI's nForce4 memory settings (it works with my nForce3 board). Now that I'm playing with it all, I'm trying to figure out how to hone in on the rogue setting that's stopping me from doing memtest.
I've managed to find a BIOS to fix the CPU multiplier glitch I've had for years and I'm finally posting at 250FSB. Computer specs are as posted at the left.

CPU specs are:

FSB: 250
AGP: 66MHz
HT Multi:3.0
CPU Multi: 9

CPU VID: 1.5V
VID Special: 100%
Chipset Voltage: 1.7v
AGP: 1.5v
DRAM: 2.8v


Mem specs are manually set to:

DRAM Frequency: 200MHz (1/1)
CPC: Disabled (2T)
tCL: 3.0
tRCD: 4
tRAS: 9
tRP 4
tRC: 15
tRFC: 17
tRRD: 3
tWR: 3
tWTR: 2
tRWT: 3
Refresh: 3120 cycles
tWCL: 1
Bank Interleave: Enabled

Increase Skew: 128 (also trying 192)
Drive Str: Level 3 (also trying 4)
Max Async: 8 us
Read Preamble: 5 us
IdleCycle: 16 cycles
Dynamic Counter: Disable
R/W Queue: 16x
Bypass: 6x
32 byte granularity: Disable


My question has two parts.
One: Does anyone see anything odd with this setup?
Two: Does anyone have any suggestions to figure out what is making memtest fail to load? (It loads at 240)

My theory is to tighten up timings one by one until 240 FSB breaks. Is there a smarter way to do this?
 
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#2
My tRWT gave errors when set at 2 and 240FSB. Increasing to 4 and going to try 245FSB. Everything above it was able to go down a notch or two without errors.

Edit: Still fails to properly load. Trying tWRT 5.
Edit: Still fails to load. Going back to tWRT 4.

Changing tWCL to 2 fails to post. Changing to 5 posts, loads memtest at 240. Post at 245, memtest fails. Moving on.
Bank Interleave: Going to disable and 245. Memtest fails.
Drive Strength: Level 4, 245. Fail.
Max Async: 9 245, post, fail.
Read preamble: 6 245, post, fail.
IdleCycle: 32 clocks, post, fail.
Dynamic Counter: Enable, post, fail. (Leaving enabled)
R/W Queue: 8x (might be it?), post, WIN!! Memtest at 245!
Post at 250FSB, Memtest fail. Aww.. R/W to 4x. Post, memtest fail. (Don't tell me I have to hunt for another setting!)
Changed HT to 4x. Memtest fails. Changing back. Memtest fails. False alarm.
Last setting, 32 byte granulation: Failed memtest.

Time to go back to my previous idea.

Setting memory divider for fun. 245FSB 5/6, post, memtest. It's kind of nice to know it's my memory and not my motherboard. Ram is running a perfect DDR400. :p
 
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#3
Parenthesis are things I've tried at 240 unless otherwise noted.

DRAM Frequency: 200MHz (1/1)
CPC: Disabled (2T)
tCL: 3.0 (2.5)
tRCD: 4 (3)
tRAS: 9 (6)
tRP 4 (3)
tRC: 15 (14 tried with below)
tRFC: 17 (15 tried with above)
tRRD: 3 (2)
tWR: 3 (2)
tWTR: 2 (1)
tRWT: 3 (2-FAIL, tRWT 4 at 245 fail)
Refresh: 3120 cycles (??)
tWCL: 1 (Don't touch)
Bank Interleave: Enabled (Disable: no diff)

Increase Skew: 128 (also trying 192)
Drive Str: Level 3 (also trying 4)
Max Async: 8 us (7)
Read Preamble: 5 us (4)
IdleCycle: 16 cycles (32 245 fail)
Dynamic Counter: Disable (Enable: no diff)
R/W Queue: 16x (8x 245 fail)
Bypass: 6x (7x)
32 byte granularity: Disable (Enable 245 fail)


I just can't get this to load memtest at 245! Going to set up RAID and other settings and boot to windows to try out what I have now. Actually, before I do that, lets tighten everything at once! It broke. Go figure.
tCL 3, no.
tRCD 4, no.
tRAS 7, tRP 4, tRC 12, tRFC 13, YES.
tCL 2.5, tRCD 5, no.
(I can't believe my roommate is still asleep after all these post beeps)
tCL 3, YES.
So a low tCL, tRAS, tRP, tRC, and tRFC = limit.
Increase tRAS 8 + tRP 5 + 1 = tRC 14 + 1 = tRFC 15.. Aaaaannnnnddd... Works! (Fails 245, but meh)

Going to memtest while getting ready for bed then booting to windows.
 
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#4
Tons of errors on test #5. 370,000 and counting. I guess I'll back down to 235, but then I won't have a better memory speed than I used to have.

Edit: 500,000 and counting. I'm guessing it's going to do this for the last 400MB. Guess what that last stick is. ValueRam! MemTest won't boot with the ValueRam out though. Odd, isn't it.

2nd Edit: Going to stop and edit settings. Errors are estimated around one and a half to two million.
 
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#5
Heya! Increased tREF and managed a sweet.. ah.. um... Nevermind. Memtest just flipped out and turned red.
More settings FTW. =/
Post, boot, Maybe? Hey! It might work this time! Yeah! There it goes! OH COME ON!

Forget this. I'm done for the night. Any help would be appreciated.
 
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#6
Afterthought to self: OCz ValueRam might not be TCCD whereas Corsair CMX512-3200C2 might be. Search papers for anything on TCCD.

235FSB and MemTest still fails. Maybe I should set it down to 200 and see if it still fails. 220FSB, memtest still fails. 200FSB, memtest fails. Maybe I should try a new BIOS.
Maybe I should... Hey! Less errors! Maybe I should ignore them?

No.. Definite plan is to reset to stock speeds and memtest. FAIL. New BIOS. If fail, new memory.
ValueRam sucks.
 
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#7
It would seem that I am able to boot to Windows at 240FSB, a feat formerly unaccomplished. Nevermind. Windows failed.
 
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#8
tRWT needs to be at 4 with 240FSB before I can think about booting windows.
 
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#9
Tracked down the problematic ram. It's one of my Corsair XMS sticks.
 
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#10
One stick of Corsair XMS, 512MB PC3200, successful memtest.
FSB: 240
AGP: 66MHz
HT Multi:4.0
CPU Multi: 9

CPU VID: 1.5V
VID Special: 100%
Chipset Voltage: 1.7v
AGP: 1.5v
DRAM: 2.8v

DRAM Frequency: 200MHz (1/1)
CPC: Disabled (2T)
tCL: 3.0
tRCD: 4
tRAS: 9
tRP: 5
tRC: 16
tRFC: 18
tRRD: 3
tWR: 3
tWTR: 2
tRWT: 5
Refresh: 3120
tWCL: 1
Bank Interleave: Disabled

Increase Skew: 64
Drive Str: L1
Max Async: 8 us
Read Preamble: 5 us
IdleCycle: 64 cycles (Fail at 32)
Dynamic Counter: Disable
R/W Queue: 16x
Bypass: 7x
32 byte granularity: Disable
 
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#11
One stick of Corsair XMS, 512MB PC3200, successful memtest.
FSB: 250
AGP: 66MHz
HT Multi:3.0
CPU Multi: 9

CPU VID: 1.5V
VID Special: 100%
Chipset Voltage: 1.7v
AGP: 1.5v
DRAM: 2.8v

DRAM Frequency: 200MHz (1/1)
CPC: Disabled (2T)
tCL: 3.0
tRCD: 4
tRAS: 9
tRP: 5
tRC: 14
tRFC: 18
tRRD: 3
tWR: 3
tWTR: 2
tRWT: 5
Refresh: 3120
tWCL: 1
Bank Interleave: Disabled

Increase Skew: 128
Drive Str: L1
Max Async: 8 us
Read Preamble: 5 us
IdleCycle: 64 cycles
Dynamic Counter: Disable
R/W Queue: 16x
Bypass: 7x
32 byte granularity: Disable


48 Errors on test 5.
 
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#12
wow all that just to post at 250?

that is why I stuck with the MSI Neo 2 Platinum Nforce3 which i'm still running. I'm posting at 275mhz right now with memory running at 250 3-3-2-10-1T.
 

hat

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#13
You are the multi-post master :)
 
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#14
I found out on Thanksgiving that one of my Corsair XMS sticks can't pass memtest at the default speed and timings. I'm going to give it another shot with just my good stick in there, but I don't know if I can go back to 512MB after working with 1GB for so long.

Yeah. I did a lot of testing. This is my fourth day of going without a working computer. I'm using a laptop (900MHz P3) to keep track of what I've tried and check the forums. I reset to defaults and booted in to windows (to check e-mail and make sure windows actually still worked) and even tried a few games, but WoW ran horribly and NFS: Pro Street crashed before I made it to the main menu.

Right now, I'm trying to tighten up settings at the stock 200MHz. I might go back to my original 215MHz OC. The biggest problem I have (besides having a bum stick) is that my processor doesn't want to go over 2400MHz (I've given it an extra .3 volts and didn't get a MHz more). My goal is to take the stock 200x10=2000 and go 250x9=2250 and then tighten all the timings down. HT will probably stay at the stock multi (this DFI board loves high HT speeds).

I just wish AMD would come back and release a cheap Sck754 Athlon 64 Black Edition.

@Mak: What all did you change? CAS, tRCD, tRP and tRAS? ..or did you go deeper?
 

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#15
If they're erroring on stock settings, RMA the damn things! :(
 
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#16
If they're erroring on stock settings, RMA the damn things! :(
I think they're way too old, but I got them through newegg so maybe I can. That's the first thing that went through my head when I saw the errors. I guess it wouldn't hurt to check.

Yeah. I'm pretty sure they're too old.

Edit: Yeah. Way too old. Any idea how long Corsair's warranty is?
 
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#17
More notes: 200FSB, 1:1, Good XMS + ValueRAM.

DRAM Frequency: 200MHz (1/1)
CPC: 2T (1T caused instability with ValueRAM)
tCL: 2
tRCD: 3
tRAS: 9
tRP: 2
tRC: 12 (change from 14)
tRFC: 13 (Change from 15)
tRRD: 2
tWR: 2
tWTR: 1
tRWT: 2
Refresh: 3120 cycles
tWCL: 1
Bank Interleave: Enabled

Increase Skew: 64 (Change from 0)
Drive Str: Auto
Max Async: 7 us
Read Preamble: 4 us
IdleCycle: 32 cycles (Change from 64)
Dynamic Counter: Enable
R/W Queue: 16x
Bypass: 7x
32 byte granularity: Disable


Started memtest, passes test 5 with no errors.
 
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#18
As you might have noticed, tweaking RAM is living HELL if you don't know what chips you got. Visit Corsair support forum to find out what chips you got.

btw,
Chipset has nothing to do with memory timings on A64.
 
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#19
Would anyone know why my memory benchmarks (SiSoftware Sandra) only get 16,000-17,000 MB/s? CPU-Z confirms I'm running 200MHz DDR400 PC3200.
New SiSoftware benchmark made a little over 2,600MB/s. I've seen Everest report 3,200MB/s on my memory before.. Why is Sandra (and Memtest) reporting it so slow?


SiSoftware Sandra

Benchmark Results
Int Buff'd iSSE2 Memory Bandwidth : 2645 MB/s
Float Buff'd iSSE2 Memory Bandwidth : 2619 MB/s
Results Interpretation : Higher index values are better.

Performance vs. Power
Chipset(s)/Memory Power : 15.8 W

Int Buff'd iSSE2 Memory Bandwidth
Assignment : 2619 MB/s
Scaling : 2607 MB/s
Addition : 2678 MB/s
Triad : 2679 MB/s
Data Item Size : 16 byte(s)
Buffering Used : Yes
Offset Displacement Used : Yes
Bandwidth Efficiency : 83% (estimated)

Float Buff'd iSSE2 Memory Bandwidth
Assignment : 2616 MB/s
Scaling : 2513 MB/s
Addition : 2675 MB/s
Triad : 2674 MB/s
Data Item Size : 16 byte(s)
Buffering Used : Yes
Offset Displacement Used : Yes
Bandwidth Efficiency : 82% (estimated)

Performance Test Status
Run ID : HACKER on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 at 12:55:30 AM
Platform Compliance : Win64 x64
Memory Used by Test : 512MB
NUMA Support : No
SMP (Multi-Processor) Benchmark : No
Total Test Threads : 1
Multi-Core Test : No
SMT (Multi-Threaded) Benchmark : No
Processor Affinity : P0C0T0
System Timer : 3.6MHz
Page Size : 4kB
Use Large Memory Pages : No

Performance Tips
Notice 5008 : To change benchmarks, click Options.
Notice 5004 : Synthetic benchmark. May not tally with 'real-life' performance.
Notice 5006 : Only compare the results with ones obtained using the same version!
Tip 2 : Double-click tip or press Enter while a tip is selected for more information about the tip.
Also, thanks largon. I know the memory controller is on the processor. I actually meant to say something more like "Memory timings on a DFI LanParty UT nF3 250gb Phoenix BIOS" (except shorter). Some of those other motherboards don't let you play with any of the cool settings.
 

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Jul 23, 2006
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26,556 (6.38/day)
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Location
Houston
System Name Team Blue
Processor 5960X@4.8 1.42v
Motherboard Asus X99M-WS
Cooling EK Supremecy EVO, MCR220-Stack+MCR220+MCR320, D5-PWM+EK X-RES 140
Memory 4x8GB G.Skill Trident Z 3200 CL16
Video Card(s) (2) EVGA SC BLACK 1080Ti's+ EVGA reference 1080Ti soon to be under water
Storage Samsung SM951 512GB, Samsung PM961 512GB
Display(s) Dell UP2414Q 3840X2160@60hz
Case Caselabs Mercury S5
Audio Device(s) Fischer HA-02->Fischer FA-002W High edition/FA-003/Jubilate/FA-011 depending on my mood
Power Supply Seasonic Prime 1200w
Mouse Thermaltake Theron
Keyboard Thermaltake Poseidon ZX
Software W10P
Benchmark Scores Zoom zoom mofo
#20
hey when i eventually upgrade to a new socket i think i should be nice and send you my 3000+ or 3400+ :D
 
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
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Location
Washington, US
System Name Lappy
Processor i7 6700k
Motherboard Sager NP9870
Cooling A lot smaller than I'd like
Memory Samsung 4x8GB DDR4-2133 SO-DIMM
Video Card(s) GTX 980 (MXM)
Storage 2xSamsung 950 Pro 256GB | 2xHGST 1TB 7.2K
Display(s) 17.3" IPS 1080p G-SYNC
Audio Device(s) Sound Blaster X-FI MB 5, Foster 2.1 channel integrated
Mouse Razer Deathadder
Keyboard 3-zone RGB integrated
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores Not slow
#21
PleasePleasePlease?! :D
Heh. I'm thinking it might be my motherboard. I sold my old Sempron 3100+ to my roommate. I could only get 240 out of that one too. I tried overclocking on his board (Exact same DFI LanParty board) and managed over 260 FSB on the same settings.

I'm thinking about setting aside some money for a Phenom.

Anyways, I'm really late for class.
 

cdawall

where the hell are my stars
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
26,556 (6.38/day)
Likes
7,461
Location
Houston
System Name Team Blue
Processor 5960X@4.8 1.42v
Motherboard Asus X99M-WS
Cooling EK Supremecy EVO, MCR220-Stack+MCR220+MCR320, D5-PWM+EK X-RES 140
Memory 4x8GB G.Skill Trident Z 3200 CL16
Video Card(s) (2) EVGA SC BLACK 1080Ti's+ EVGA reference 1080Ti soon to be under water
Storage Samsung SM951 512GB, Samsung PM961 512GB
Display(s) Dell UP2414Q 3840X2160@60hz
Case Caselabs Mercury S5
Audio Device(s) Fischer HA-02->Fischer FA-002W High edition/FA-003/Jubilate/FA-011 depending on my mood
Power Supply Seasonic Prime 1200w
Mouse Thermaltake Theron
Keyboard Thermaltake Poseidon ZX
Software W10P
Benchmark Scores Zoom zoom mofo
#22
lol i had the same issue on my mobo and then i just put as much volts through it as i could 1.8v thru the cpu and 2.8v(2.5v stock) thru the chipset :roll: though loosening the timings a lot let me boot really high my 2.59ghz clock was at insanely loose timings 3-6-6-12 1T @518mhz
 

erocker

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
42,375 (10.17/day)
Likes
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Processor Intel i7 8700k
Motherboard Gigabyte z370 AORUS Gaming 7
Cooling Water
Memory 16gb G.Skill 4000 MHz DDR4
Video Card(s) Evga GTX 1080
Storage 3 x Samsung Evo 850 500GB, 1 x 250GB, 2 x 2TB HDD
Display(s) Nixeus EDG27
Case Thermaltake X5
Power Supply Corsair HX1000i
Mouse Zowie EC1-B
Software Windows 10
#23
It's your RAM for sure. I had those same sticks, and I had the same problem. Upgraded to 2 1gb silver heatspreader xms sticks and I can run them at 600mhz no problems.