Missing Bios with ComboAm4v2PI 1.2.0.7 for MSI B450 boards

[The King]

TBF, as good as this B450 has served me for 2-3 years I will likely go B550 very soon for PCI-E 4 and hopes of higher RAM speeds, currently I seem to be limited to 3800, though as the Ryzen 5500 is practically the same silicon as the 5600g without IGP, I was hoping for 4000+ still can't complain at the amount of support they have given for 3/4 years

How many DIMMS are you running? With 4 DIMMS around 3800/3867 is about the Max I could get.

With 2 Dimms +4000MT/s is very possible wih B450 and I am running Vermeer.

 

[BlaezaLite]

How many DIMMS are you running? With 4 DIMMS around 3800/3867 is about the Max I could get.

With 2 Dimms +4000MT/s is very possible wih B450 and I am running Vermeer.
View attachment 254286

Showoff...

 

[VuurVOS]

B450 Tomahawk Max II here. Downloaded & flashed the 1.2.0.7 AGESA BIOS before it was taken down. I prefer it over previous BIOSes, it doesn't delete all BIOS profiles when I clear CMOS.

MSI did made a major fuck up with the OC Profile CMOS clearing issue. I complained about this OC Profile clearing issue almost two weeks ago with a different motherboard (X570S Torpedo MAX).
It took a couple of days before they understood what was wrong. Their support engineers aren't the brightest ones.

Currently the OC Profiles still does not work properly in my opinion. In bios older versions it will wait during the POST on user input when you cleared the CMOS.
With the latest BETA it boots directly into Windows with only one or two seconds delay. In that time, you need to decide to enter the bios or press ALT+F1....F6 to load the OC profile.

Can you confirm if this happens on your B450 Tomahawk Max as well?

 

[MachineLearning]

Currently the OC Profiles still does not work properly in my opinion. In bios older versions it will wait during the POST on user input when you cleared the CMOS.
With the latest BETA it boots directly into Windows with only one or two seconds delay. In that time, you need to decide to enter the bios or press ALT+F1....F6 to load the OC profile.

Can you confirm if this happens on your B450 Tomahawk Max as well?

Yep - unfortunately, what you described is true for the B450 Tomahawk Max II with (pulled) BIOS file E7C02AMS.H80

Personally, I vastly prefer this over losing profiles just because it takes way less time. But, this is still indeed a bug.

 

[VuurVOS]

Yep - unfortunately, what you described is true for the B450 Tomahawk Max II with (pulled) BIOS file E7C02AMS.H80

Personally, I vastly prefer this over losing profiles just because it takes way less time. But, this is still indeed a bug.

Please create a ticket at MSI. They really think this is what the end users want.....they said this is the new behavior when the CMOS is cleared.

I tried to made it very clear that this isn't what the end user want but they refuse to restore it to its orginal behavior....

 

[MachineLearning]

Please create a ticket at MSI. They really think this is what the end users want.....they said this is the new behavior when the CMOS is cleared.

I tried to made it very clear that this isn't what the end user want but they refuse to restore it to its orginal behavior....

I will wait until the next BIOS release before I complain directly - it's possible that the engineers are changing it, yet CS isn't aware or isn't stating as such.

Personally this isn't a huge issue overall, since anytime I clear CMOS I'm near the keyboard and mashing to get into BIOS anyway. Not losing profiles is vastly more important to me. I do definitely agree with you that it still is sub-optimal CMOS clear behavior.

 

[VuurVOS]

I will wait until the next BIOS release before I complain directly - it's possible that the engineers are changing it, yet CS isn't aware or isn't stating as such.

Personally this isn't a huge issue overall, since anytime I clear CMOS I'm near the keyboard and mashing to get into BIOS anyway. Not losing profiles is vastly more important to me. I do definitely agree with you that it still is sub-optimal CMOS clear behavior.

They aren't to fix if you wont make any noise. The bug was present in three main biosses releases in my case.
Nobody did made a noise until I bought the motherboard two weeks ago and noticed this bug. Reported it and after lots of responding they did something.....

More noise, means more attention to fix the issue.

 

[izy]

Did anyone test the new 1.2.0.7 bios? I am still using the "pulled" version ( V3.E ) on my b450 tomahawk max and i dont have any issues , RAM @ 16 18 18 18 58 1T - 3667mhz on 3700x , not sure if i should update to the replaced one (V3.F1) or not. I think that my 3700x was boosting better with older bios and my ram was a bit faster in DRAM calculator benchmark , now i had to tweak it a bit as the motherboard uses some high secondary timings by default. My ram seems unstable at 3733 for some reason , i think its the memory controller as it doesnt boot at 3800mhz (or maybe i have to tweak the voltages and i havent played with them ) , this ram XMP is at 3600mhz.

Edit: Some other problem that i encounter is when OC-ing my ram the FCLK and UCLK are going to default even i change them in bios and the only way to make them work is to reset the bios to default and try again, any other way the FCLK / UCLK will not sync even if i make changes it in the bios.

 

[mstenholm]

In reply to above. Sorry for me being lazy but all I got for documentation is a photo. These x-flare 3200/14 should be good for more than 3400 Mt/s but 3600/throws errors. I ran them at 3600 with a much older bios just fine. And that was with a 2700X.

 

[izy]

In reply to above. Sorry for me being lazy but all I got for documentation is a photo. These x-flare 3200/14 should be good for more than 3400 Mt/s but 3600/throws errors. I ran them at 3600 with a much older bios just fine. And that was with a 2700X.

You keep your ram at 1,48v? ^^ Its harder to OC with 4 sticks (guessing you have 4 )

 

[mstenholm]

You keep your ram at 1,48v? ^^ Its harder to OC with 4 sticks (guessing you have 4 )

Yes 4 and I‘m a bit lower now, 1.46V as far as I remember.

 

[The King]

Did anyone test the new 1.2.0.7 bios? I am still using the "pulled" version ( V3.E ) on my b450 tomahawk max and i dont have any issues , RAM @ 16 18 18 18 58 1T - 3667mhz on 3700x , not sure if i should update to the replaced one (V3.F1) or not. I think that my 3700x was boosting better with older bios and my ram was a bit faster in DRAM calculator benchmark , now i had to tweak it a bit as the motherboard uses some high secondary timings by default. My ram seems unstable at 3733 for some reason , i think its the memory controller as it doesnt boot at 3800mhz (or maybe i have to tweak the voltages and i havent played with them ) , this ram XMP is at 3600mhz.

View attachment 254383

Edit: Some other problem that i encounter is when OC-ing my ram the FCLK and UCLK are going to default even i change them in bios and the only way to make them work is to reset the bios to default and try again, any other way the FCLK / UCLK will not sync even if i make changes it in the bios.

You not going to get any higher to run stable or boot with 1.35V VDIMM

With Micron Rev. E 1.4V-1.45V is safe.
3600 CL14 is very easy to get with that very same kit. for 3800 you may need to increase your VSOC to 1.1V and run 1.45V
This was with my first gen Ryzen 1700X. I dont see why you wont be able to do 3800 with your 3700X.

U4W on my kit means white U4B on you kit means Black. they basically the same

 

[izy]

You not going to get any higher to run stable or boot with 1.35V VDIMM

With Micron Rev. E 1.4V-1.45V is safe.
3600 CL14 is very easy to get with that very same kit. for 3800 you may need to increase your VSOC to 1.1V and run 1.45V
This was with my first gen Ryzen 1700X. I dont see why you wont be able to do 3800 with your 3700X.

Well i was going for 3733 not even 3800, it boots but its not stable, at 3800mhz it just wont boot , i didnt touch the voltage , used ram speed XMP with 2:1 ration. As far as i remember 3600 cl14 wasnt stable (not with this bios, im not sure if its the bios , the ram or memory controller ) ill have to give it a try with the new bios but i hope its no a mess

Edit: what latency you get in AIDA?

 

[The King]

Yes 4 and I‘m a bit lower now, 1.46V as far as I remember.

Are all 4 sticks exactly the same? You should be getting much better out of 1.48V than 3400 on a 5950X!

Well i was going for 3733 not even 3800, it boots but its not stable, at 3800mhz it just wont boot , i didnt touch the voltage , used ram speed XMP with 2:1 ration. As far as i remember 3600 cl14 wasnt stable (not with this bios, im not sure if its the bios , the ram or memory controller ) ill have to give it a try with the new bios but i hope its no a mess

Edit: what latency you get in AIDA?

You can't increase frequency too high or lower CL to 14 without adding some voltage and expect the RAM to be stable.
Your kit is rated 3600 CL 16 @ 1.35V so 3667 CL16 is able to boot. If 3733 boots it most likely will not be stable at all with 1.35V.

However 3600 CL14 offers great performance. I would try that again with 1.45V. I ran that setup for over 2 years. it performed really well.

 

[mstenholm]

Are all 4 sticks exactly the same? You should be getting much better out of 1.48V than 3400 on a 5950X!

Correct but not produced in same week but I got errors running Rosetta and tested them and found that they gave me errors. I might give at go later but that’s not my hobby and errors are something I rather live without on the expense of a few pro cent lower performance.

 

[izy]

@The King if i remember right i did try 1.45v and with loose timings at 3733 (with this bios) and it didnt make any difference was still getting errors , ill update to the new bios and give it another try , would be great if i could get cl14 3600 or cl 16 3733 but i think ill have to increase the soc voltage too or something.

EDIT: Same bios , the difference from CL16 to CL14 its +0.1v and from 68 - 68.2 latency to 67.4 - 67.5, not sure if its worth , maybe ill have to play a bit with the timings. I have to stress test it first , it passed with no errors with the benchmark from DRAM-Calculator-for-Ryzen-1.7.3. Seem that this ram doesnt like lower tRCDRD , would like to have it at 16

Not sure what my latency target should be, can it do 66 ns?

Edit2: Best result so far that seems stable , but didnt try any game to see if its crashing or not just did the bench. (seems that this is a good cheap ram kit)
For some reason aida bench is worse with this timings.

Edit3: I ended up with this and it seems to work , still not sure if 1.45v its ok for daily use. I think i only did 1.4v before and thats why it didnt work , thanks @The King for pointing this out.

I will wait until the next BIOS release before I complain directly - it's possible that the engineers are changing it, yet CS isn't aware or isn't stating as such.

Personally this isn't a huge issue overall, since anytime I clear CMOS I'm near the keyboard and mashing to get into BIOS anyway. Not losing profiles is vastly more important to me. I do definitely agree with you that it still is sub-optimal CMOS clear behavior.

You know that you can save profiles on USB, thats what i do.

 

[The King]

@The King if i remember right i did try 1.45v and with loose timings at 3733 (with this bios) and it didnt make any difference was still getting errors , ill update to the new bios and give it another try , would be great if i could get cl14 3600 or cl 16 3733 but i think ill have to increase the soc voltage too or something.

EDIT: Same bios , the difference from CL16 to CL14 its +0.1v and from 68 - 68.2 latency to 67.4 - 67.5, not sure if its worth , maybe ill have to play a bit with the timings. I have to stress test it first , it passed with no errors with the benchmark from DRAM-Calculator-for-Ryzen-1.7.3. Seem that this ram doesnt like lower tRCDRD , would like to have it at 16

View attachment 254398View attachment 254399
Not sure what my latency target should be, can it do 66 ns?

Edit2: Best result so far that seems stable , but didnt try any game to see if its crashing or not just did the bench. (seems that this is a good cheap ram kit)
For some reason aida bench is worse with this timings.



You know that you can save profiles on USB, thats what i do.

Change
RRDS 4
RRDL 6
tFAW 16
WTRS 5
WTRL 10
TWR 16
TRP 8

Drop both SCLs from 5 to 4.

Hopefully that should boot then run AIDA64 again . I never tested RCD 17 @ 3667 only at 3600.
RCD on REV.E does not scale with voltage. RCD 17 may work at 3600 but 18 is fine for 3667.

 

[izy]

Change
RRDS 4
RRDL 6
tFAW 16
WTRS 5
WTRL 10
TWR 16
TRP 8

Drop both SCLs from 5 to 4.

Hopefully that should boot then run AIDA64 again . I never tested RCD 17 @ 3667 only at 3600.
RCD on REV.E does not scale with voltage. RCD 17 may work at 3600 but 18 is fine for 3667.

Ive edited my previous post , i ended up with 14 -18 -16 -16 @ 3733 with 1.45v, ill try to lower the voltage and see if its still stable, with RCD 17 it had errors. Still ill have to test it in some games or for longer time to see if its really stable or not, the "pulled" bios seems fine for me.
Edit: After more testing it seems that ram doesnt give any errors, it works in games but i got a random reboot , i think the memory controller its bad or it needs more volts for 3733, im gonna test cl16 @ 3733 before playing with the memory controller voltage. Is 1.2v SoC safe?
Edit2: 1.2v SoC in bios , under aida stress test, everything seems ok no reboots so far , in ZenTimings im getting 1.1750 and 1.1813 SoC voltage. (maybe it can do 3800? )

 

[The King]

Ive edited my previous post , i ended up with 14 -18 -16 -16 @ 3733 with 1.45v, ill try to lower the voltage and see if its still stable, with RCD 17 it had errors. Still ill have to test it in some games or for longer time to see if its really stable or not, the "pulled" bios seems fine for me.
Edit: After more testing it seems that ram doesnt give any errors, it works in games but i got a random reboot , i think the memory controller its bad or it needs more volts for 3733, im gonna test cl16 @ 3733 before playing with the memory controller voltage. Is 1.2v SoC safe?

Try 1.15 or 1.175V first. You should not need 1.2V on the VSOC for just 2 DIMMS.

 

[VuurVOS]

@The King You know that you can save profiles on USB, thats what i do.

That’s working around the issue but not solving it permanently! You need to load it every time from your usb instead of direct accessing it from the ROM space.

@izy can you also raise a ticket at MSI so it gets proper attention?

 

[izy]

@VuurVOS , OC-ing my ram just now and i had to reset my bios (i have the "pulled" bios V3.E on b450 tomahawk max, i didnt update to the new one yet) , all my saved profiles are still there after the reset (in ROM).

About my ram OC , seems to be stable with 1.15 SoC in bios (it reports 1.1313 in ZT) and 1.45v dram (i did try with 1.43v and had errors), this is what i end up with and is stable so far , passed 1 cycle of TM5 extreme ( i think it was 1 hour ) and no crash or reboots so far. Did some short game testing in 3 titles and didnt notice any fps uplift (one of them was World of Warcraft that as u know is cpu bound but hard to benchmark) so i am not sure if the extra + 0.1v on ram and SoC worth or if its safe 24/7 but im pretty happy with the results considering this RAM was cheap, i have another kit (same version) in my other system and ill check if it can hold this OC with 4 sticks and ill buy some other kit for my other system if it does.

 

[clobby]

EDIT: They added 1206c AGESA the next morning so I look to be good.

They took away all the recent B450 Tomahawk (plain jane one) BIOS updates. I have a Ryzen 7 5800x in mine, and I went to upgrade to the 5800x3d, and found they even removed the BIOS I have on my board. I imagine no one has the 1.2.06 AGESA BIOS for this board huh?

 

[The King]

@VuurVOS , OC-ing my ram just now and i had to reset my bios (i have the "pulled" bios V3.E on b450 tomahawk max, i didnt update to the new one yet) , all my saved profiles are still there after the reset (in ROM).

About my ram OC , seems to be stable with 1.15 SoC in bios (it reports 1.1313 in ZT) and 1.45v dram (i did try with 1.43v and had errors), this is what i end up with and is stable so far , passed 1 cycle of TM5 extreme ( i think it was 1 hour ) and no crash or reboots so far. Did some short game testing in 3 titles and didnt notice any fps uplift (one of them was World of Warcraft that as u know is cpu bound but hard to benchmark) so i am not sure if the extra + 0.1v on ram and SoC worth or if its safe 24/7 but im pretty happy with the results considering this RAM was cheap, i have another kit (same version) in my other system and ill check if it can hold this OC with 4 sticks and ill buy some other kit for my other system if it does.
View attachment 254427

You only adjusted your primary timings where noticeable performance can come is from lowering sub timings which you have not done at all.
If you change the settings in my above post and run AIDA64 again you would should see some good improvements in Read /write /copy and latency.
My 1700X has far worse latency than what ZEN 2 or ZEN 3 will have.

This YT video by BZ will explain why sub timings are more important than CL and primary timings when it comes to performance.

 

[izy]

You only adjusted your primary timings where noticeable performance can come is from lowering sub timings which you have not done at all.
If you change the settings in my above post and run AIDA64 again you would should see some good improvements in Read /write /copy and latency.
My 1700X has far worse latency than what ZEN 2 or ZEN 3 will have.



This YT video by BZ will explain why sub timings are more important than CL and primary timings when it comes to performance.

Write bandwidth for Zen 2 is lower than with other cpus , i changed trrds and trrdl and gained some performance but when lowering others i was getting errors , ill play a bit more with the subtimings and see what i can get. With the current settings i get 67ns in aida.

 

[izy]

I am sitting with the "pulled" bios for now till i see some reviews from people that tried the new BIOS as it seems to be stable for me. I feel that my cpu is a bit slower with this bios than older ones but my ram OC seems better. I will go on this system with an 5800x soon but its fun to tweak a bit the 3700x too , the bad part is that testing the RAM takes a long time.
My RAM OC looks like this now , under 66ns in AIDA, im still not happy with the 1.45v (with lower voltage i get some errors) but its stable with no errors. Ill try to go lower frequency CL 14 or same frequency CL 15 - 16 and see if i can get away with 1.4v and the same performance. ( bl8g36c16u4b.m8fe1 -> for google indexing if someone else is looking to oc same type of ram)