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NOCTUA in trouble? - Leo tests the NEW Zalman CNPS20X !

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Nice post but you forgot one thing airflow. Not the airflow going through the rads but intake and exhaust. That can have a dramatic impact on the temps you are referencing.
I don’t think I forgot anything as I have mention fan rpm but I’m willing to discuss what you mean by that...

...humidity is a larger factor to fan performance that you might think.
how exactly?
 
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I don’t think I forgot anything as I have mention fan rpm but I’m willing to discuss what you mean by that...

What I mean is the rest of the fans in your case. Like do you have fans blowing air across the MB from a side panel? How big are the front intake fans and what is their CFM. Where is the radiator(s) positioned. The biggest though is if you have active cooling on the RAM, VRM and CPU block. I have a Thermaltake Core series case and I used one of the fan frames on the motherboard tray (it is horizontal) to have 2 120MM fans blow air across the aforementioned area on the MB. I noticed a 6 degree drop in my temps both idle and load and the CPU block always feel cool to the touch.
 
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how exactly?

Good question. Hot air can take in more water vapors making it less dense then dry hot air but not sure of how that makes a major impact on fans??
 
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Good question. Hot air can take in more water vapors from humidity making it less dense then dry hot air but not sure of how that makes a major impact on fans??

Heat transfer is slower through humid air, is what I know. I think its also plausible that it affects airflow.
 

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All I can say is I have seen the effects. I am no scientist so I am not going to take you down a technical trip through minutia.

In high humidity situations, coolers do not perform as well as they do in dryer air.
 
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Heat transfer is slower through humid air, is what I know. I think its also plausible that it affects airflow.
True it will take slightly more energy to heat a humid room compared to a drier room.

All I can say is I have seen the effects. I am no scientist so I am not going to take you down a technical trip through minutia.

In high humidity situations, coolers do not perform as well as they do in dryer air.
You may be right or wrong, I'm hardly an expert on this. I think this type of test would be beyond the scope of most CPU reviewers to be done properly. One thing I will say, typically humid air is warmer then drier air in terms of room temp. It may be that the room temp is the real factor in the effects you are seeing.
 

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"Beating" the D15 hasn't really been news for any amount of time now. So many dual stack 140mm heatsinks have come out over the last few years and they all fall in at roughly the same performance. Who wins depends on the test setup and who's testing, and the winning margins can hardly even be called a "win" compared to what water can achieve. Zalman isn't reinventing the wheel here (as much as they would like to portray it as such with their hilarious fans), and I hate clickbait titles.

Zalman used to make some really interesting coolers that were potent for their size, but the fan-in-the-heatsink design has sort of died off over the years. Their new direction of design language is disappointing.

TC14PE, DR4, D15...it's all down to personal preference at that segment of the aircooling market, fan noise notwithstanding.

And most of these benchmarks are pretty much worthless aside from getting a vague idea of where performance is. Testing on an uncluttered test bench or tabletop yields no useful information to when the cooler is put into a restrictive case with stock fans (what the majority of people do), or in the SFF crowd, no case fans at all. Testing with drive cages in the way, testing with the side panel off...you get the idea. Case in point: the U9S and D9L are closely matched, but the U9S easily pulls ahead in highly restrictive environments where airflow is limited or poorly planned.

@kapone32 AFAIK dual stack towers aren't available for TR4. Are you thinking of the U14S TR4? Difference in fan noise probably comes from having only a single A15 compared to the D15, in a much more ideal position compared to the D15S.
 

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It may be that the room temp is the real factor in the effects you are seeing.

My office is always 22.5-23.5 *C ;) This is summer or winter, and humidity is always in the range of 45-50%, and is why I feel more than confident not needing to use a delta to hide other variables. :)
 
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What I mean is the rest of the fans in your case. Like do you have fans blowing air across the MB from a side panel? How big are the front intake fans and what is their CFM. Where is the radiator(s) positioned. The biggest though is if you have active cooling on the RAM, VRM and CPU block. I have a Thermaltake Core series case and I used one of the fan frames on the motherboard tray (it is horizontal) to have 2 120MM fans blow air across the aforementioned area on the MB. I noticed a 6 degree drop in my temps both idle and load and the CPU block always feel cool to the touch.
The numbers I’ve provide was my testing, and I have no case. It’s open system with 2 additional case fans on VRM and chipset with same rpm. And as I said test conditions was same. Same day within 1-2 hours. Just TIM changing and settle temps down. I think my self observant person when trying to do such things and I was sure to take results with same conditions for all aspects.

All I can say is I have seen the effects. I am no scientist so I am not going to take you down a technical trip through minutia.

In high humidity situations, coolers do not perform as well as they do in dryer air.
I can agree with this and pretty much everything else others said about, but regular reviewers like this one tend to review products in controlled environments.

I’m no regular viewer of Leo tho, so can’t really have a solid opinion...
 
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Indeed. Intel's 9th gen chips in particular get extremely warm even on water, by design. If that's enough to break down the coolant in the AIO loop, then those AIOs are not fit for purpose.
Coolant temp is not the same thing as die temp.
 
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Looks good but part of the Noctua Appeal for me is the (fantastic) mounting system Securifirm. Easy as pie to install and mount. I'd trade a couple of degrees for that alone (I don't over clock, go figure). The only reason I went with the Be Quiet (which has a rather fiddle mounting system) is because it was the only one in my budget available at the time with a chunky, top-down style for maximum VRM cooling. I use Noctua PPC fans though.

I too have switched away from liquid AIO coolers due to the longevity concerns. And also, if the pump fails on an AIO, that heat is going NOWHERE. While if the fan fails on a huge heatsink, A) you see it pretty quickly and B) the heatsink still radiates heat in reasonable airflow. Pump failure on AIO can damage a CPU in a few minutes.
 
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All I can say is I have seen the effects.
In high humidity situations, coolers do not perform as well as they do in dryer air.
Water vapour has superior heat capacity. That narrows the temperature gradient toward the ambient.
 
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Looks good but part of the Noctua Appeal for me is the (fantastic) mounting system Securifirm. Easy as pie to install and mount. I'd trade a couple of degrees for that alone (I don't over clock, go figure).
this times ten.

noctua's installation technique is fantastic.
quick,simple and just impossible to fail.
 
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Normal people who don't test their cpus at 90-95°C, should consider liquid metal on nickel plated heatsinks to make the most of their cpu ihs thermal interface. Basically liquid metal fills the ihs gaps best, imo.
 
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this times ten.

noctua's installation technique is fantastic.
quick,simple and just impossible to fail.
you can also use it across several of their coolers if you ever want to swap them out
 

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you can also use it across several of their coolers if you ever want to swap them out
And they send you, free of charge, mounting kits for sockets the cooler wasn't originally designed for, like the one in my system specs.

No idea if Zalman does the same.
 
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Coolant temp is not the same thing as die temp.

I don't know what the DOW guide states - only that it was suggested temperature is responsible for breakdown of the glycol-based coolant to form 'biosludge'

I'm not the person who posted that quote, but if there's biosludge in an AIO and a coolant manufacturer (DOW) has a guide explaining how to avoid biosludge due to high temperatures, I think it's a pretty cut-and-dried case for an AIO where the only possibly heat source that could have degraded the coolant is the CPU.
 
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I don't know what the DOW guide states - only that it was suggested temperature is responsible for breakdown of the glycol-based coolant to form 'biosludge'

I'm not the person who posted that quote, but if there's biosludge in an AIO and a coolant manufacturer (DOW) has a guide explaining how to avoid biosludge due to high temperatures, I think it's a pretty cut-and-dried case for an AIO where the only possibly heat source that could have degraded the coolant is the CPU.
"Dispelling the Myths of Heat Transfer Fluids Presentation"
 
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Surely for the vast majority of users though their AIO rarely (if ever) goes below freezing point, so why this need to add anti freeze?
(I'm new to all of this, so don't shoot me)
 
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Surely for the vast majority of users though their AIO rarely (if ever) goes below freezing point, so why this need to add anti freeze?
(I'm new to all of this, so don't shoot me)
I will shoot you.
7496FC409FBE4566B6A9FAD3E8F7B2BC.gif

It is not for freeze protection. It is for biocide & anticorrosion. Also not any antifreeze - alcohol cause rusting.
 
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ah!
so why not use mayhems then, or is that effectively the same thing?
It is a point of reference as previously stated. Our redneck minister of finance has mentioned dow(I think it was corning) in an envious context. We are speaking at nation level reputation.
 
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Thanks for that. Original quoter seemed to have their understanding of that messed up then. Temperature isn't going to be the culprit since 300F isn't a temperature that a CPU is likely to generate.
According to that PDF it's poor water quality and over-dilution of the coolant that will cause corrosion and biosludge.

Given that few, if any, AIO's last more than 5 years, and that they usually degrade in performance from corrosion or gunking, we can assume that getting the right dilution, and quality of water and additives is beyond the capabilities of most AIO manufacturers. My own watercooling days are almost 20 years behind me now but I couldn't keep the loop gunk-free for more than a year with what I had available to me in those days.
 
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