NOCTUA in trouble? - Leo tests the NEW Zalman CNPS20X !

[HTC]

And thanks to Noctua's awesome support to older coolers, that will probably last another 10 years.

Would not be surprised if it were to happen.

 

[lorry]

He has done a follow up video with a different Noctua. Same result, Zalman wins, but this time by only a couple of degrees

 

[John Naylor]

I don't have the time for video reviews and most of them (Gamers Nexus, Jayz. Linus, etc) are shall we say "less than reliable". So I went to the site and read the review. While notable, I'll wanna see tests on CPUs more within the range of average on heat output ... and inside a case rather than in open air. The noise results are peculiar in that they are significantly higher than most tests I have seen in the past.

But, Noctua has not been the top dog in the air cooler market for several years now ... Scythe had matched / exceeded the D15s performance in 2014 at half the price with the arrival of the Mugen Max, then stepped it up in 2017 with the Fuma and most recently the Fuma 2. Not that these wou;ldn't fare well against the Sythes sas the performance differences have been typically 1 - 2 C and 2-3 dbA.

 

[lorry]

Adding a case adds in variables

 

[Mr McC]

Yes, but I'm not sure the results would be the same within the confines of a case, I am suspicious of the Zalman fans and given that it appears difficult to simply swap them out, according to the 2nd video, and in view of the inferior mounting mechanism, I would choose the Noctua over the Zalman, there is little in it in any event. Don't get me wrong, the Zalman is undoubtedly an extremely good cooler.

 

[RealNeil]

Two Noctuas, two results. Interesting.
One thing about the Noctua coolers is that they give you the mounting kits for all of the sockets. (for free)
So with Noctua, you're future-proofed for years to come. They also use industry-standard fan sizes on their coolers.

So for me, Noctua is the better value.

 

[Xzibit]

He has done a follow up video with a different Noctua. Same result, Zalman wins, but this time by only a couple of degrees

I still don't under stand why hes presenting proper orientation (Noctua only). Then during testing footage he reverses the fans so fans are sucking in air from the I/O & VRMs . I would have no problem if hes doing it for all coolers but he doesn't specify.

 

[lorry]

I still don't under stand why hes presenting proper orientation (Noctua only). Then during testing footage he reverses the fans so fans are sucking in air from the I/O & VRMs . I would have no problem is hes doing it for all coolers but he doesn't specify.

He says in the second video that was B role only, or so he says

 

[Xzibit]

He says in the second video that was B role only, or so he says

He says that about the first video as to why he had the fans like that. In the testing footage look at the running test bed. He starts showing it @8:19. I thought he was showing the same loop again from the end of the video but at the end of the video he has the window shades slightly open.

 

[micropage7]

You lose a lot of pressure from that silly fan design.

yeah it looks like the fan eats more space than traditional fan design

 

[darkbreeze]

well whatever they are doing, they are doing it right, as it's around 7 degrees cooler than the Noctua.

It's not. It's "supposedly" 3 degrees cooler, after a re-test, but if you go read the comments there you will find that there are some pretty glaring flaws in some of the methodology used. I'm not sure I'd believe ANY of the results until we get something similar from some separate sources. The fact that there were advertisements showing those results UP on the Zotac website the very same day those results were released, makes it incredibly suspicious. Sure, other companies like Noctua, Thermalright, Scythe, etc. do use the testing results from various tech sites on their web pages if they are favorable, but that's generally not a synchronized activity. It's something that tends to happen at some point, but it's at some point down the road.

This is more like it was pre-arranged. I can't say that makes it invalid, but it sure as heck makes you WONDER if it's invalid or at least suspect. I don't ever trust the results of just one site anyhow especially if there is a reason why you might not such as in a case like this. So it's not just that it's Zotac, who has a history and track record that are all over the map, both high and low, with products that have performed well AND products that were real turds, but all some really fantastically bad behavior on the part of the company as well. I think most people can agree than when a fan's own specifications indicate it has a maximum db of 28 and is being compared to a Noctua fan with a maximum db of 19.2, but the test results show the 28db fans having a lower overall SPL when paired up during testing, that something is definitely off in the way the tests were done, or something.

I still don't under stand why hes presenting proper orientation (Noctua only). Then during testing footage he reverses the fans so fans are sucking in air from the I/O & VRMs . I would have no problem if hes doing it for all coolers but he doesn't specify.

That whole review is non-standard and incredibly.......questionable.

 

[toyo]

I watched both videos and found them intriguing. I am using a D15S which works great so there's no reason for me to change, and also have a few oldie Zalman CPUs from the past. I have a CNPS10x Optima on my FX8350 system and it always worked well, so I'm not that surprised that Zalman can challenge Noctua.
Maybe the competition will result in lower prices. Cooling is somewhat of a weird investment (IMO), there's a pretty hard border you will hit quite early on and after that it's rather hard to improve temps. For example, me changing from low end Arctic 120mm fans to Noctua's PWM 140mm fans barely did anything, both noise and performance, yet the price was quite something.

 

[Zach_01]

me changing from low end Arctic 120mm fans to Noctua's PWM 140mm fans barely did anything, both noise and performance, yet the price was quite something.

Better fans will benefit cooling, when they are the actual restrictive point. If the "bottleneck" in heat dissipation is elsewhere (like case airflow, room temp, paste material and application) then better fans wont work much. Or you have already max the cooler's capacity (unlikely).

 

[mtcn77]

I watched both videos and found them intriguing. I am using a D15S which works great so there's no reason for me to change, and also have a few oldie Zalman CPUs from the past. I have a CNPS10x Optima on my FX8350 system and it always worked well, so I'm not that surprised that Zalman can challenge Noctua.
Maybe the competition will result in lower prices. Cooling is somewhat of a weird investment (IMO), there's a pretty hard border you will hit quite early on and after that it's rather hard to improve temps. For example, me changing from low end Arctic 120mm fans to Noctua's PWM 140mm fans barely did anything, both noise and performance, yet the price was quite something.

I also did a discovery. There should be two tiers of cooling performance: one is small cpu with low heat which most coolers deal with appropriately. The other is small cpu with high heat. Those two make the exceptions come out. Most heatsinks can deal with big cpu dies with proportionate heat output, however these 10nm & 7nm will bring them to their knees.

 

[HTC]

I also did a discovery. There should be two tiers of cooling performance: one is small cpu with low heat which most coolers deal with appropriately. The other is small cpu with high heat. Those two make the exceptions come out. Most heatsinks can deal with big cpu dies with proportionate heat output, however these 10nm & 7nm will bring them to their knees.

That's because the heat is concentrated in a much smaller area so it's much harder to deal with.

Having 80º spread out over an area of ... say ... 250mm squared is much easier to deal with than the same temp spread out over and area of ... say ... 100mm squared.

 

[mtcn77]

That's because the heat is concentrated in a much smaller area so it's much harder to deal with.

Having 80º spread out over an area of ... say ... 250mm squared is much easier to deal with than the same temp spread out over and area of ... say ... 100mm squared.

I had high aspirations of vapour coolers, however this looks like wicks kill much of the keenness of vapor chambers.
I'm utterly disappointed - where's the wicking performance when you most need it?
They added a 1400w thermal transmittance(14°C delta temperature gradient) over a 100w heat dense 1x1cm² heat source. So, they have 49°C reaching the coldplate, ambients being 35°C. Think damn it, they must have left something out!

So, ryzen isn't just 100 w/cm². It is 95w/0.8=19% more at default, maybe more overclocked.

 

[Zach_01]

So, ryzen isn't just 100 w/cm². It is 95w/0.8=19% more at default, maybe more overclocked.

The single CCD 105W TDP CPU (3800X) is actually way more than this.
Each CCD is 74mm² and in the case of 3800X it produces at stock max allcore boost around 1.45W per 1mm². (145W/cm²).
The dual CCD, or the single CCD 65W parts have far less.
3600X (1CCD 95W) has around 1.2W/mm²
3600/3700X (1CCD 65W) 0.8W/mm²
3900Χ/3950Χ (2CCDs 105W) 0.7W/mm²

 

[mtcn77]

The single CCD 105W TDP CPU (3800X) is actually way more than this.
Each CCD is 74mm² and in the case of 3800X it produces at stock max allcore boost around 1.45W per 1mm². (145W/cm²).
The dual CCD, or the single CCD 65W parts have far less.
3600X (1CCD 95W) has around 1.2W/mm²
3600/3700X (1CCD 65W) 0.8W/mm²
3900Χ/3950Χ (2CCDs 105W) 0.7W/mm²

I might have been overly pessimistic, but I think it goes on about increasing the base diameter of the vc plate. It can be done, me thinks. It would still be an overwhelming problem what to make of that coldplate.

Okay, it doesn't bring an associated temperature drop...

 

[Zach_01]

Okay, it doesn't bring an associated temperature drop...

No, at least not a relative one. Some are at the edges of the stack of being worst and best but all have very similar thermals.

 

[delshay]

He has done a follow up video with a different Noctua. Same result, Zalman wins, but this time by only a couple of degrees

I also questioned why two or more of the same heatsink perform a little different by very small margins, & this is what I think is happening, but I could be wrong.

The heatpipe themselves internally is slightly different, but I think the real culprit is the soldering between the coldplate & the heasink fins.

What am saying here is the amount of solder between coldplate & fins, ie physical contact point.

I have seen one or two users post poor soldering on heatsink for GFX cards on REDDIT Website. These users were complaining that their cards were overheating even when they change to better thermal paste. I wish I kept those photos because it showed clear cut poor soldering.
What made matters worse, one user was refused RMA. Anyone that looked at it can clearly see it was a manufacturing fault.

What am trying to say here is, soldering quality is going to vary ever so slightly between heatsinks of the same make & model. So I guess you will see anything from 1 to 4c difference. I personally encountered 2c difference between two Noctua C14.

EDIT: Found one of the threads https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/9i71jh

 

[FreedomEclipse]

Its 'average'

 

[Vario]

He calls it average but its matching top coolers. Average in the upper end segment? The appearance and marketing seems to be the downfall in his review.

Performance is overall average when looked at in the most objective sense: It’s about where the Noctua NH-D15 is, +/-1C (often better by 1C in a highly-controlled bench, so functionally equal in the real world), it’s also roughly tied to the similarly large Deep Cool Assassin III, and it’s beaten easily by the Arctic Liquid Freezer II closed-loop liquid cooler (280mm). The CNPS20X, therefore, is not ground-breaking and doesn’t eviscerate the long-standing NH-D15, but also doesn’t crumble under design failures like the Corsair A500 did. Thermally speaking, it’s about equally good to the D15. We wouldn’t rush out and buy it as if it’s world-leading in performance, but if you like how it looks better than other large air coolers tested here, and if you simply don’t want the (often) equally-priced Liquid Freezer II 280, then the CNPS20X is a fine choice. Its downsides are primarily ones which don’t impact product performance, like overly stupid marketing and a storied history wrought with bankruptcy, fraud, record-setting prison sentences, and ads in exchange for removing reviews.

Zalman CNPS20X CPU Cooler Review & Benchmark vs. Noctua NH-D15, Arctic Liquid Freezer II | GamersNexus

stub The last time we worked with Zalman on a review ended with the company offering to "buy advertising" in exchange for us taking down the review. That was for the company’s Zalman R1 case, which we published in 2015 and which is still live. That was just 6 months after Zalman defaulted on a...

www.gamersnexus.net

 

[lorry]

He calls it average but its matching top coolers. Average in the upper end segment? The appearance and marketing seems to be the downfall in his review.

Zalman CNPS20X CPU Cooler Review & Benchmark vs. Noctua NH-D15, Arctic Liquid Freezer II | GamersNexus

stub The last time we worked with Zalman on a review ended with the company offering to "buy advertising" in exchange for us taking down the review. That was for the company’s Zalman R1 case, which we published in 2015 and which is still live. That was just 6 months after Zalman defaulted on a...

www.gamersnexus.net

Average in that it is the Noctua's equal in performance.

On that basis in my prime I was the equal of Usain Bolt then, as I was average at sprinting.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

I have one in for testing. Already did photos and preliminary performance evaluation. So expect a review to go live at some point. What I can say is performance is good it is slightly better than a D15 but its also louder. For all the details well you will just have to wait.

 

[Vayra86]

I have one in for testing. Already did photos and preliminary performance evaluation. So expect a review to go live at some point. What I can say is performance is good it is slightly better than a D15 but its also louder. For all the details well you will just have to wait.

Mentally subbed!