NOCTUA in trouble? - Leo tests the NEW Zalman CNPS20X !

[mtcn77]

Thanks for that. Original quoter seemed to have their understanding of that messed up then. Temperature isn't going to be the culprit since 300F isn't a temperature that a CPU is likely to generate.
According to that PDF it's poor water quality and over-dilution of the coolant that will cause corrosion and biosludge.

Given that few, if any, AIO's last more than 5 years, and that they usually degrade in performance from corrosion or gunking, we can assume that getting the right dilution, and quality of water and additives is beyond the capabilities of most AIO manufacturers. My own watercooling days are almost 20 years behind me now but I couldn't keep the loop gunk-free for more than a year with what I had available to me in those days.

Thanks for that. The guide is indeed fuzzy on how hot the biofouling of glycols begin to occur. Okay, we mixed up big on that one. Glycols do precipitate corrosion themselves, too. We lower operating temperatures not to prevent glycol biofouling, but to inhibit corrosion because all rust is basically salt and salt is an electrolyte making short work of negating anticorrosion additives. Also, hardness cause 'sludge' and scales, although I recall biofouling somewhere.

I might have to recall, but 3% salt makes the %0.1 acid work as 1% equivalent.*

Metals like copper and iron are also super active and possibly offer higher kA reaction turnover rate.

PS: I checked, 2% salt makes 0.5% acid work its way as if 1%.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

My office is always 22.5-23.5 *C This is summer or winter, and humidity is always in the range of 45-50%, and is why I feel more than confident not needing to use a delta to hide other variables.

Same its why I test at the temperatures i test at in a controlled environment. While not exactly scientific lab level of control its enough where I don't need to use delta temperatures or other nonsense to keep things "fair"

Might put in a request to get one of these for review in the near future. Last Zalman review fell through because the cooler's plastic fantastic shrouds conflicted with the VRM heatsinks on the board.

 

[Xzibit]

If you do get it. Don't put the center Noctua fan on the same tower like he did on the NH-D15 when comparing

 

[freeagent]

Looks like a Cooler Master, but nicer

 

[lorry]

With my Noctua NH DI-15. I added a Noctua NF-F12 PWM to it so that it sat at the height as the 14 but gave me the extra clearance for the Corsair Dominator Platinum, Just!

Mind you, needn't have bothered, as I've not noticed any discernable difference in temperatures at all.

 

[GlacierNine]

If you do get it. Don't put the center Noctua fan on the same tower like he did on the NH-D15 when comparing

I really suspect that makes little to no difference. It looks goofy, but you can see that the blades of each fan are pushing the air in the same direction, so unless that 2-3mm gap between fin stack and fan makes much more difference than I think it does, the performance there shouldn't be appreciably different.

 

[dirtyferret]

kit guru has posted the written review

Zalman CNPS20X and CNPS17X: Noctua didn’t see this coming! - KitGuru

Since publishing our review of Zalman's new CNPS20X and CNPS17X air coolers, we have received a numb

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My office is always 22.5-23.5 *C This is summer or winter, and humidity is always in the range of 45-50%

Then it's anecdotal because the temp & humidity is always constant for you. Once again, not saying you are wrong but it would be an interesting test to do to see if the effect is major, little to no impact, or somewhere in between.

Same its why I test at the temperatures i test at in a controlled environment. While not exactly scientific lab level of control its enough where I don't need to use delta temperatures or other nonsense to keep things "fair"

My first real job out of school (going back just over two decades) I was doing QA testing for a printer company that specialized in office as well as industrial inkjet printing. We tested our own printers and the competition in large walk in environmental test chambers, each as big as a bedroom. We would freeze the units at 0c as if they were transported on a plane, then let them run at 15c 20% humidity and 80%. Follow that up with 40c at 20% humidity and then 80%. The chambers were so well insulated that just with the lights on the temp inside would easily get into the 90sF. Back then those chambers had to be $100k, well over that by now...have W1zzard spring for one!

 

[Mr McC]

In this review of a case, unless I am seriously mistaken, the same "guru" has mounted the psu upside down:

That alone would make me question the validity of anything he has to say in relation to tech. However, I admit that I could be wrong and there may be a valid reason for taking this approach.

I would welcome the return of Zalman to the cooler market, but Noctua's strong position is by no means under threat.

 

[dirtyferret]

In this review of a case, unless I am seriously mistaken, the same "guru" has mounted the psu upside down:

That alone would make me question the validity of anything he has to say in relation to tech. However, I admit that I could be wrong and there may be a valid reason for taking this approach.

I would welcome the return of Zalman to the cooler market, but Noctua's strong position is by no means under threat.

You can mount the PSU anyway you want as long as the fan is not blocked. People will scream about fan up or down all day swearing to the almighty there is only one proper way (similar to toilet paper rolls being pull up or down). In that particular case I would mount the PSU fan up as well in you have the PC on a carpet (as I do with my gaming PC). I would also recommend a mesh cover for the fan to prevent any screws from falling into the PSU if you like to tinker with your hardware.

 

[Mr McC]

You can mount the PSU anyway you want as long as the fan is not blocked. People will scream about fan up or down all day swearing to the almighty there is only one proper way (similar to toilet paper rolls being pull up or down). In that particular case I would mount the PSU fan up as well in you have the PC on a carpet (as I do with my gaming PC). I would also recommend a mesh cover for the fan to prevent any screws from falling into the PSU if you like to tinker with your hardware.

Don't wish to derail the thread, but whilst it is clear that it can be done either way, surely the gpu fan and the psu fan will fight with one another when it is mounted upside down? I think that is poor practice, but each to their own.

 

[mtcn77]

Don't wish to go derail the thread, but whilst it is clear that it can be done either way, surely the gpu fan and the psu fan will fight with one another if you follow this example? I think that is poor practice, but each to their own.

In fact, the gpu will pull dirty air from the back grills, I run cellophane over all the side grills just to keep dust out because there is no stopping incident air with a negative gradient. It is better to let the psu do the dirty work.

 

[dirtyferret]

Don't wish to derail the thread, but whilst it is clear that it can be done either way, surely the gpu fan and the psu fan will fight with one another when it is mounted upside down? I think that is poor practice, but each to their own.

Not to get into the minutia of the details but hey the thread is derailed a bit;

Here is the test equipment in that case

• Processor: Intel Core i7-7820X 8 cores/16 threads, 3.5GHz all cores.
• Motherboard: ASRock X299M Extreme-4
• CPU cooler: Noctua NH-D9L
• Memory: 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4-3200MHz
• Graphics: Nvidia RTX 2080 8GB Founders Edition
• Power supply: Seasonic Focus Plus 1000W Gold
• Storage drive: Intel P760 M.2 SSD
• OS: Windows 10

SilverStone Precision PS15 Review – A £40 Bargain! - KitGuru

SilverStone Precision PS15 is all about the money and a low price that comes in under £40. The Preci

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that PSU has a hybrid fan and with total system pull at under 400w, it should not be on too much if at all.

I will also post Jonny Guru's response on fan up or down

I personally would run the PSU fan up. I've just found that fan down the PSU that heat rises into the PCB. If it's mounted fan up, you still don't have to worry so much about the hot air in the case because the fan shouldn't spin to suck that air into the PSU very often and the PSU's PCB is actually farther from that heat source.

 

[Mr McC]

Fair enough, there is method in the madness.

 

[dirtyferret]

Fair enough, there is method in the madness.

I would note; I would never run the PSU fan up with liquid cooling because one little leak...

 

[Vario]

Mounting two fans onto one fin stack doesn't matter. Mine are mounted that way on my used PHTC14PE heatsink, as the silicon strips were pre-applied.
Power supply fan up vs fan down doesn't matter unless you are on a carpet (fan up) or have watercooling (fan down).

 

[lorry]

Fair enough, there is method in the madness.

Doesn't apply in this case (get it?) but if there is a PSU shroud as well, as there is in my current case (H500M), then to have the PSU with the fan pointing up would mean that it is drawing, (or trying to draw) air in when it is up against the PSU shroud. My case sits on my desk but if it were to be carpet located I would suggest a plinth of some kind

This is like so many other aspects of building, differences of opinion. AMD/Intel being the biggest I would say but another is that vertical GPU mounts are a no no. and it's about time that case manufacturers actually realised that this is 2020 and began to design for vertical PCI2 risers and mounting and then have someone come up with a multiple PCIe mount.
The Cooler master vertical GPU mount is one of the best, as it places the GPU a good 9cm away from the glass side panel, but does of course then remove all other PCIe use, a multiple PCIe mount would avoid that, as would a rotatable PCIe slots on the back if the case.

 

[dirtyferret]

Doesn't apply in this case (get it?) but if there is a PSU shroud as well, as there is in my current case (H500M), then to have the PSU with the fan pointing up would mean that it is drawing, (or trying to draw) air in when it is up against the PSU shroud. My case sits on my desk but if it were to be carpet located I would suggest a plinth of some kind

1. CM needs to stop calling all their cases "500"
2. It is weird how they just closed off PSU shroud in the K500, MB500, 500M &500P rather then leave air slots like in the TD500 or just open ended like the H500.
3. They REALLY need to stop calling all their cases 500!

 

[lorry]

1. CM needs to stop calling all their cases "500"
2. It is weird how they just closed off PSU shroud in the K500, MB500, 500M &500P rather then leave air slots like in the TD500 or just open ended like the H500.
3. They REALLY need to stop calling all their cases 500!

Can I 'like' this 500 times?
GN agrees with you there, he had a mini rant about coolermaster and a few others naming them *500*
But I'm not sure if air slots are really needed? There is usually a ton of ventilation coming from the back, bottom and unseen sides of a PSU shroud

 

[dirtyferret]

Can I 'like' this 500 times?
GN agrees with you there, he had a mini rant about coolermaster and a few others naming them *500*
But I'm not sure if air slots are really needed? There is usually a ton of ventilation coming from the back, bottom and unseen sides of a PSU shroud

Now the thread is completely off the rails but you are the OP so it's your thread

I'm looking at the pics and the top of the 500M is completely closed off. They use a slanted peace of metal of close off the front of the shroud so how would front to back ventilation enter the shroud? The the far side is closed off with another panel. The only opening I see is on the bottom.

top of the shroud

peace of metal closes off the front of the shroud

side panel finishes off the enclosure

 

[lorry]

Now the tread is completely off the rails but you are the OP so it's your thread

I'm looking at the pics and the top of the 500M is completely closed off. They use a slanted peace of metal of close off the shroud so how would front to back ventilation enter the shroud? The the far side is closed off with another panel. The only opening I see is on the bottom.

top of the shroud

peace of metal closes off the front of the shroud

side panel finishes off the enclosure

It isn't sealed off, there is bottom ventilation with a removable m pull out mesh. Which is why you mount the PSU upside down, as is shown in your pics. You mount it with the fan facing down to provide air intake. It also doesn't show it very well until you zoom in a fair bit, but there are quite a few cable cutouts along the side that joins with the MB tray, also there is another cutout underneath the PCI slots

BTW, No idea where you got the pics from but I could have done with them when I was planning etc, lol

 

[dirtyferret]

It isn't sealed off, there is bottom ventilation with a removable m pull out mesh. Which is why you mount the PSU upside down, as is shown in your pics.

Yes, that was my point. They really only give you one option for mounting the PSU (unless you really know the fan won't be spinning) by closing off much of the other sides.

 

[lorry]

Yes, that was my point. They really only give you one option for mounting the PSU (unless you really know the fan won't be spinning) by closing off much of the other sides.

Agreed, but where's the problem with that? It is exactly the same with many other cases with PSU shrouds, you gain by hiding away the clutter of cables, but lose in that there is only one realistic way to mount the PSU. It's called choice.

 

[dirtyferret]

Agreed, but where's the problem with that? It is exactly the same with many other cases with PSU shrouds, you gain by hiding away the clutter of cables, but lose in that there is only one realistic way to mount the PSU. It's called choice.

Many other "traditional" layout cases will offer you the option with a vented top like the Be Quiet 500, NZXT 510, Phanteks 400 and/or have an open front like the silverstone RL08, Lian Li Lancool, CM H500.

Vented top example

open shroud front example

 

[lorry]

Many other "traditional" layout cases will offer you the option with a vented top like the Be Quiet 500, NZXT 510, Phanteks 400 and/or have an open front like the silverstone RL08, Lian Li Lancool, CM H500.

Vented top example

open shroud front example

Choice.
No one is forcing Anyone to buy a particular product. They are not attempting to hide the fact that the shroud is mainly closed in, don't like that? Don't want that? Then don't buy it, that simple.
The same with the new Zalman, don't like their 'fancy' fins? Then don't buy it.
I thought that one of the main reasons for being in a forum like this was that we do not want standardization. We want fans with high static pressure for our radiators so the choice is there for us. Zalman have come up with what looks to be decent competition to Noctua, Great, as that not only gives people another option when it comes to quality air cooling, but will likely push Noctua to respond. Just like AMD have done to Intel with zen2.

 

[mtcn77]

Choice.
No one is forcing Anyone to buy a particular product. They are not attempting to hide the fact that the shroud is mainly closed in, don't like that? Don't want that? Then don't buy it, that simple.
The same with the new Zalman, don't like their 'fancy' fins? Then don't buy it.
I thought that one of the main reasons for being in a forum like this was that we do not want standardization. We want fans with high static pressure for our radiators so the choice is there for us. Zalman have come up with what looks to be decent competition to Noctua, Great, as that not only gives people another option when it comes to quality air cooling, but will likely push Noctua to respond. Just like AMD have done to Intel with zen2.

There has been a general disregard for keeping up with standard practices in the industry.
Linus is the person of notice in this medium. I hope it goes well for him and doesn't feel too burnt out. It has been his reputation delivering how gtx480 could be made to run super quietly rather in a super high tier cosmos case that comes with its own gpu airduct through the back. It is all about standardizations - oems push us for shroudless aircooler designs that work best in open benches rather than closed cases, so we fall to jumped conclusions.
I hate to say, but linus has pulled down more exclusive pc testing essays by possible vendor notices than all of us would care to know...