• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Ryzen Owners: Is Alder Lake tempting enough to switch to Intel?

Ryzen Owners: Is Alder Lake tempting enough to switch to Intel?

  • Yes

    Votes: 3,035 17.0%
  • No

    Votes: 12,883 72.1%
  • I'm not sure yet

    Votes: 1,939 10.9%

  • Total voters
    17,857
  • Poll closed .
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
26,047 (6.46/day)
I'll say the 12900k is
Why, because it's a power-hog? Being a power-hog does not make something garbage, especially if it is the top performer, which the 12900k is. Just look at the RTX3090 and 6900XT.

You want first class, grade A power-hog garbage? Look no further than the FX-9590. That was 220w stock, often getting into the 300w+ range under heavy load and still couldn't compete with with Intel's top offerings of the time.
FX9590PowerUsage.png


The 12900k is the King of performance ATM. You can call it a power-hog all day long and no one can argue against that with any merit. But to call it garbage is objectively and patently false.
The multi threaded performance between a 5950x and a 12900k is very competitive at trading blows...
As has been said elsewhere, if users are on Zen3, Alder Lake is not going to be a compelling move. But for anyone on Zen1 or Zen2, the move is compelling for certain and it would be up to the individual user to decide if it would be right for them.
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
5,407 (0.91/day)
Location
Australia
System Name Night Rider | Mini LAN PC | Workhorse
Processor AMD R7 5800X3D | Ryzen 1600X | i7 970
Motherboard MSi AM4 Pro Carbon | GA- | Gigabyte EX58-UD5
Cooling Noctua U9S Twin Fan| Stock Cooler, Copper Core)| Big shairkan B
Memory 2x8GB DDR4 G.Skill Ripjaws 3600MHz| 2x8GB Corsair 3000 | 6x2GB DDR3 1300 Corsair
Video Card(s) MSI AMD 6750XT | 6500XT | MSI RX 580 8GB
Storage 1TB WD Black NVME / 250GB SSD /2TB WD Black | 500GB SSD WD, 2x1TB, 1x750 | WD 500 SSD/Seagate 320
Display(s) LG 27" 1440P| Samsung 20" S20C300L/DELL 15" | 22" DELL/19"DELL
Case LIAN LI PC-18 | Mini ATX Case (custom) | Atrix C4 9001
Audio Device(s) Onboard | Onbaord | Onboard
Power Supply Silverstone 850 | Silverstone Mini 450W | Corsair CX-750
Mouse Coolermaster Pro | Rapoo V900 | Gigabyte 6850X
Keyboard MAX Keyboard Nighthawk X8 | Creative Fatal1ty eluminx | Some POS Logitech
Software Windows 10 Pro 64 | Windows 10 Pro 64 | Windows 7 Pro 64/Windows 10 Home
Sorry mate, AMD has yet to officially confirm the VCache models for AM4. Don't count on it.
They have actually it was confirmed weeks ago like mama said, you must of missed that video and thread?
As has been said elsewhere, if users are on Zen3, Alder Lake is not going to be a compelling move. But for anyone on Zen1 or Zen2, the move is compelling for certain and it would be up to the individual user to decide if it would be right for them.
No your missing the point its not Zen 3 its the AM4 platform, if your on a AM4 Motherboard that supports up to Zen 3(and possibly higher) then there is no reason to go to a whole new platform at all, period! Regardless if your on Zen 1 or 2, its all about the platform, not the CPU itself.
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
7,647 (3.88/day)
System Name Bragging Rights
Processor Atom Z3735F 1.33GHz
Motherboard It has no markings but it's green
Cooling No, it's a 2.2W processor
Memory 2GB DDR3L-1333
Video Card(s) Gen7 Intel HD (4EU @ 311MHz)
Storage 32GB eMMC and 128GB Sandisk Extreme U3
Display(s) 10" IPS 1280x800 60Hz
Case Veddha T2
Audio Device(s) Apparently, yes
Power Supply Samsung 18W 5V fast-charger
Mouse MX Anywhere 2
Keyboard Logitech MX Keys (not Cherry MX at all)
VR HMD Samsung Oddyssey, not that I'd plug it into this though....
Software W10 21H1, barely
Benchmark Scores I once clocked a Celeron-300A to 564MHz on an Abit BE6 and it scored over 9000.
here's some reasons...

- all stuff open, ide's running, vm dev env running, 50+ tabs in browser windows and steam in the background

It's fast... really fast. And cool. And cheap. I haven't even turned off core parking yet.
I don't want to snub what is obviously one of the fastest consumer PCs you can buy right now, but all of those things are trivial for an old, cheap 3700X too.
No, the 3700X wouldn't be as fast, but the seamlessness of the experience is less about how fast each core is and (within reason) how many threads your CPU+OS scheduler can juggle at a time.

I wouldn't recommend buying a 3700X at this point in time over Alder Lake, but an older 3700X is only 5-10% slower than Alder Lake for gaming and the worst-case is something like Cinebench R23 Multi where the 3700X is 25% slower. You'd maybe be able to notice that 25% but I doubt it would be worth the costly upgrade to a new CPU/MB/DDR5 kit.

IMO you buy Alder Lake if you have a burning itch to be at the cutting edge, no matter the cost or the teething troubles, or you have an older Skylake-era build that's lacking cores, IPC, or both.
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
10,319 (1.69/day)
Location
Austin Texas
Processor 13700KF Undervolted @ 5.6/ 5.5, 4.8Ghz Ring 200W PL1
Motherboard MSI 690-I PRO
Cooling Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 w/ Arctic P12 Fans
Memory 48 GB DDR5 7600 MHZ CL36
Video Card(s) RTX 4090 FE
Storage 2x 2TB WDC SN850, 1TB Samsung 960 prr
Display(s) Alienware 32" 4k 240hz OLED
Case SLIGER S620
Audio Device(s) Yes
Power Supply Corsair SF750
Mouse Xlite V2
Keyboard RoyalAxe
Software Windows 11
Benchmark Scores They're pretty good, nothing crazy.
I wouldn't recommend buying a 3700X at this point in time over Alder Lake, but an older 3700X is only 5-10% slower than Alder Lake for gaming and the worst-case is something like Cinebench R23 Multi where the 3700X is 25% slower. You'd maybe be able to notice that 25% but I doubt it would be worth the costly upgrade to a new CPU/MB/DDR5 kit.
5-10% slower than alder lake for gaming maybe in the best case -- Alder lake is closer to 50% faster for gaming in the worst case though, and the 3xxx series currently bottlenecks midrange nVidia GPUs at 1440P.

1637680841955.png


1637680950794.png


Worst case BF 2042 AI botmatch 128 players:

1637681200764.png


So I mean yeah, if your use case you don't want/need an upgrade from 3xxx zen then it makes no sense to upgrade. But if you're sitting on like a 1700x/2700x on B350 and a 3070, then either a used B550/B450 and a 56/5800x or a faster alder lake setup will serve you well. Reuse the old DDR4 memory (3200 Gear 1 is amazing performance still) and grab AL, or grab used Zen3 parts for even less are both good ways to go.

The question is... is AL better than used Zen 3 - that I'm not sure there is a right answer to. The price/performance is there but all the AL parts are expensive right now.
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member 215115

Guest
5-10% slower than alder lake for gaming maybe in the best case -- Alder lake is closer to 50% faster for gaming in the worst case though, and the 3xxx series currently bottlenecks midrange nVidia GPUs at 1440P.


Worst case BF 2042 AI botmatch 128 players


So I mean yeah, if your use case you don't want/need an upgrade then it makes no sense to upgrade. But if you're sitting on like a 1700x/2700x on B350 and a 3070, then either a used B550/B450 and a 56/5800x or alder lake will serve you well. Reuse the old DDR4 memory (3200 Gear 1 is amazing performance still) and grab AL, or grab used Zen3 parts for even less are both good ways to go.
I agree, though I think it would make more sense for older Zen owners to just swap their old CPU for a Zen 3 since their motherboards probably support it. If they don't, then sure, Alder Lake is an option since they'd need a new motherboard anyway.

I just checked US prices and Alder Lake costs about the same as Zen 3. In Europe, Alder Lake is a bit cheaper. Not bad at all.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
2,047 (0.38/day)
Location
Republic of Texas
Processor R9 5950x
Motherboard Asus x570 Crosshair VIII Formula
Cooling EK 360mm AIO D-RGB
Memory G.Skill Trident Z Neo 2x16gb (CL16@3800MHz)
Video Card(s) PNY GeForce RTX 3090 24GB
Storage Samsung 970 EVO Plus 1TB NVMe | Intel 660p 2TB NVMe
Display(s) Acer Predator XB323QK 4K 144Hz
Case Corsair 5000D Airflow
Audio Device(s) Objective2 Amp/DAC | GoXLR | AKG K612PRO | Beyerdynamic DT880| Rode Pod Mic
Power Supply Corsair AX 850w
Mouse Razer DeathAdder Elite V2
Keyboard Corsair K95 Platinum RGB "Cherry MX Brown"
VR HMD Oculus Rift
Software Window 11 Pro
not for me :)

Even if I'm looking to upgrade it not worth being beta tester for Intel and MS (win11), prolly my age but waste of time to mess with it.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
11,878 (2.27/day)
Location
Manchester uk
System Name RyzenGtEvo/ Asus strix scar II
Processor Amd R5 5900X/ Intel 8750H
Motherboard Crosshair hero8 impact/Asus
Cooling 360EK extreme rad+ 360$EK slim all push, cpu ek suprim Gpu full cover all EK
Memory Corsair Vengeance Rgb pro 3600cas14 16Gb in four sticks./16Gb/16GB
Video Card(s) Powercolour RX7900XT Reference/Rtx 2060
Storage Silicon power 2TB nvme/8Tb external/1Tb samsung Evo nvme 2Tb sata ssd/1Tb nvme
Display(s) Samsung UAE28"850R 4k freesync.dell shiter
Case Lianli 011 dynamic/strix scar2
Audio Device(s) Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup, corsair void pro headset
Power Supply corsair 1200Hxi/Asus stock
Mouse Roccat Kova/ Logitech G wireless
Keyboard Roccat Aimo 120
VR HMD Oculus rift
Software Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores 8726 vega 3dmark timespy/ laptop Timespy 6506
If you have the cooling and don't really want to tinker too much the 12700K is awesome, if you want a fun chip to play with 12600K seems much more OCable - OC'd 3 12600K's so far, and 2 12700Ks and... man what a difference - each 12600K had no issues hitting 5.1-5.3 getting a 12700K above 5.0 is a bit like seeing how much energy one can pump out of Chrenobyl. Just leave it alone and pump ring and ram, maybe go all core on the boost or up the boost multiplier - still the stock 12700k is a monster.

The 12600Ks remind me of the E8500's a bit - 25%-35% uplift in performance from a full (core/ring/ram) OC is pretty sweet.

The more I play with CPUs the more I lean towards the 5600x/8700k/12600k series. The midrange parts just seem to run better from both companies.
And on topic if you own any Ryzen from the last two years move along, nothing to see here.

You and lex are turning this into a brand war thread, it isn't one , a simple question got asked TO RYZEN OWNER's how's about you let other opinions be known without constant Intel pedaling.
 
D

Deleted member 24505

Guest
Well i am being gifted a I7 12700K and a z690-A wifi D4 board, so i see no reason not to go for it. Sure i could probably stick a 56/5800 in my B450 board, but i see no reason to when i can have a free AL upgrade, and sell my 2600x/b450 pro s stuff for probably £250?
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
10,319 (1.69/day)
Location
Austin Texas
Processor 13700KF Undervolted @ 5.6/ 5.5, 4.8Ghz Ring 200W PL1
Motherboard MSI 690-I PRO
Cooling Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 w/ Arctic P12 Fans
Memory 48 GB DDR5 7600 MHZ CL36
Video Card(s) RTX 4090 FE
Storage 2x 2TB WDC SN850, 1TB Samsung 960 prr
Display(s) Alienware 32" 4k 240hz OLED
Case SLIGER S620
Audio Device(s) Yes
Power Supply Corsair SF750
Mouse Xlite V2
Keyboard RoyalAxe
Software Windows 11
Benchmark Scores They're pretty good, nothing crazy.
And on topic if you own any Ryzen from the last two years move along, nothing to see here.

You and lex are turning this into a brand war thread, it isn't one , a simple question got asked TO RYZEN OWNER's how's about you let other opinions be known without constant Intel pedaling.
I am a ryzen owner. Well, was.

How am I turning this into a brand war exactly? How about you not accuse people and try to mom the thread, mom?
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Messages
898 (0.14/day)
Location
Round Rock, TX
System Name Teh Beast
Processor Intel i9 14900K | 7800X3d
Motherboard Asus STRIX Z790E-E | Strix B650E-F
Cooling NZXT Kraken Elite 280 | Kraken Elite 280
Memory 64GB G.Skill T5 6400Mhz | 32GB G.skill 6000mhz
Video Card(s) Sapphire 7900XTX Pulse | 4070 Super
Storage 1X 1TB SN850X - 1 X 4TB SN850X - 2 X 2TB 980 Pro
Display(s) LG 38" 38GL950G + LG 27" 27GP83B-B
Case Lian Li o11 Air Mini
Power Supply Corsair RM1000x
Software WIndows 11 Pro
I switched from a 10850K to the 12900K... and its been flawless, zero issues and actually runs really cool despite reviews.

I can also say my old 3900X system is pretty rock solid too though.. Still running now as a server, it hasn't been rebooted in 60 days.

I mainly switched because i'm a geek and love new tech (the 3900X was also a release day/week purchase) but if you're on a 3000 or 5000 series ryzen, i don't see why the average person should upgrade.
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
7,647 (3.88/day)
System Name Bragging Rights
Processor Atom Z3735F 1.33GHz
Motherboard It has no markings but it's green
Cooling No, it's a 2.2W processor
Memory 2GB DDR3L-1333
Video Card(s) Gen7 Intel HD (4EU @ 311MHz)
Storage 32GB eMMC and 128GB Sandisk Extreme U3
Display(s) 10" IPS 1280x800 60Hz
Case Veddha T2
Audio Device(s) Apparently, yes
Power Supply Samsung 18W 5V fast-charger
Mouse MX Anywhere 2
Keyboard Logitech MX Keys (not Cherry MX at all)
VR HMD Samsung Oddyssey, not that I'd plug it into this though....
Software W10 21H1, barely
Benchmark Scores I once clocked a Celeron-300A to 564MHz on an Abit BE6 and it scored over 9000.
5-10% slower than alder lake for gaming maybe in the best case -- Alder lake is closer to 50% faster for gaming in the worst case though, and the 3xxx series currently bottlenecks midrange nVidia GPUs at 1440P.
As true as that may be, that's the unrealistic benchmarking requirement of testing all/unlikely combinations. Realistically Alder Lake absolutely smokes old Zen2 by an embarrassing margin at 720p low settings with a 3090 - but again, nobody actually games like that - it's merely an academic test in CPU benchmarking to demonstrate where the differences potentially lie. If you aren't actually GPU limited in your gaming then you either need to upgrade your monitor to stop wasting your expensive GPU, or you need to turn your settings up and enjoy the eye candy you've already paid for.

Nobody sensible is going to be buying a $1200-3300 GPU in the current climate to bottleneck it by an old CPU - the 3700X for example is worth about five times less than even a vanilla RTX 3070.
My assumption (the obvious one) is that if you have a 2019 CPU you likely have a 2019 GPU too, and if you were willing to pay 2021's 3-4x MSRP for a GPU, buying the latest CPU platform is basically a negligible cost, AKA chump change.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
11,878 (2.27/day)
Location
Manchester uk
System Name RyzenGtEvo/ Asus strix scar II
Processor Amd R5 5900X/ Intel 8750H
Motherboard Crosshair hero8 impact/Asus
Cooling 360EK extreme rad+ 360$EK slim all push, cpu ek suprim Gpu full cover all EK
Memory Corsair Vengeance Rgb pro 3600cas14 16Gb in four sticks./16Gb/16GB
Video Card(s) Powercolour RX7900XT Reference/Rtx 2060
Storage Silicon power 2TB nvme/8Tb external/1Tb samsung Evo nvme 2Tb sata ssd/1Tb nvme
Display(s) Samsung UAE28"850R 4k freesync.dell shiter
Case Lianli 011 dynamic/strix scar2
Audio Device(s) Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup, corsair void pro headset
Power Supply corsair 1200Hxi/Asus stock
Mouse Roccat Kova/ Logitech G wireless
Keyboard Roccat Aimo 120
VR HMD Oculus rift
Software Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores 8726 vega 3dmark timespy/ laptop Timespy 6506
I am a ryzen owner. Well, was.

How am I turning this into a brand war exactly? How about you not accuse people and try to mom the thread, mom?
By continuously arguing against other people's opinions on why they won't swap.

Does it matter?!.

Is there other thread's with that already?

What's the question of the OP again?

Mom, it's f£#@&g boring reading the same shit in five thread's is all but do go on I'll choose not to read them but lots to skip here.

Oh and I am not hating on or trying to belittle you so chill with the personal shit
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
10,319 (1.69/day)
Location
Austin Texas
Processor 13700KF Undervolted @ 5.6/ 5.5, 4.8Ghz Ring 200W PL1
Motherboard MSI 690-I PRO
Cooling Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 w/ Arctic P12 Fans
Memory 48 GB DDR5 7600 MHZ CL36
Video Card(s) RTX 4090 FE
Storage 2x 2TB WDC SN850, 1TB Samsung 960 prr
Display(s) Alienware 32" 4k 240hz OLED
Case SLIGER S620
Audio Device(s) Yes
Power Supply Corsair SF750
Mouse Xlite V2
Keyboard RoyalAxe
Software Windows 11
Benchmark Scores They're pretty good, nothing crazy.
By continuously arguing against other people's opinions on why they won't swap.

I posted my reason and then responded to two people commenting on that post. That's not "continuously arguing against people's opinions of why they won't swap" or "trying to start a brand war". Don't make things up pls.
 
Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
900 (0.67/day)
System Name 1. Glasshouse 2. Odin OneEye
Processor 1. Ryzen 9 5900X (manual PBO) 2. Ryzen 9 7900X
Motherboard 1. MSI x570 Tomahawk wifi 2. Gigabyte Aorus Extreme 670E
Cooling 1. Noctua NH D15 Chromax Black 2. Custom Loop 3x360mm (60mm) rads & T30 fans/Aquacomputer NEXT w/b
Memory 1. G Skill Neo 16GBx4 (3600MHz 16/16/16/36) 2. Kingston Fury 16GBx2 DDR5 CL36
Video Card(s) 1. Asus Strix Vega 64 2. Powercolor Liquid Devil 7900XTX
Storage 1. Corsair Force MP600 (1TB) & Sabrent Rocket 4 (2TB) 2. Kingston 3000 (1TB) and Hynix p41 (2TB)
Display(s) 1. Samsung U28E590 10bit 4K@60Hz 2. LG C2 42 inch 10bit 4K@120Hz
Case 1. Corsair Crystal 570X White 2. Cooler Master HAF 700 EVO
Audio Device(s) 1. Creative Speakers 2. Built in LG monitor speakers
Power Supply 1. Corsair RM850x 2. Superflower Titanium 1600W
Mouse 1. Microsoft IntelliMouse Pro (grey) 2. Microsoft IntelliMouse Pro (black)
Keyboard Leopold High End Mechanical
Software Windows 11
Joined
Jun 19, 2021
Messages
28 (0.02/day)
Honestly, for most people the gains are minimal in many areas. I'm not upgrading, simply cannot justify the price of new mobo, chip and maybe memory for a couple percent gain in my use scenario. But I'm sure someone can justify the move because there are some applications where it's Alder Lake is an absolute beast. I'll probably skip AMD's 3d cache refresh too unless it's epic and compatible with my hardware, may be better to just wait for the 6000 series. I'm more excited for the Radeon 7000s though, need more horsepower for higher res gaming and my CPU isn't the true bottleneck there anyway.
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
26,047 (6.46/day)
Perhaps I wasn't specific enough. When I asked for a link, I was asking for one that acts as a citation for the claim that AMD has stated that they will be bringing VCache CPU's to AM4. I ask not because I don't know how to use a search engine but because I looked and couldn't find anything from AMD which specifically states that VCache CPU's are coming to socket AM4.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
1,177 (0.20/day)
System Name KOV
Processor AMD 5900x
Motherboard Asus Crosshair Hero VIII
Cooling H100i Cappellix White
Memory Corsair 3600kHz 32GB
Video Card(s) RX 7900XT
Storage Samsung 970 evo 500gb, Corsair 500gb ssd, 500GB 840 pro & 1TB samsung 980pro. M2.SSD 960 evo 250GB
Display(s) ASUS TUF Gaming VG32VQ1B 165mhz, Dell S2721DGFA 27 Inch QHD 165mhz
Case Corsair 680x
Audio Device(s) ON Board and Hyper X cloud flight wireless headset and Bose speakers
Power Supply AX1200i Corsair
Mouse Logitech G502x plus lightspeed
Keyboard Logitech G915 TKL lightspeed and G13 gamepad
Software windows 11
Went to AMD for the first time ever with this 5900 and going to stick with it for a while as I'm quite enjoying it and it's not to slow either in games
 
D

Deleted member 24505

Guest
i think if anyone got offered a free i7 AL and Strix board they would take it, hence why i am. If not i was just going to get a 5600x. Now i will sell my old stuff and use the cash towards a better GPU.

There's no denying AL is pretty good, fair it has foibles but it's not like Ryzen didn't when it appeared. A few drivers updates, and bios updates and it will settle down as Ryzen did i'm sure.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
2,661 (1.72/day)
There's no denying AL is pretty good, fair it has foibles but it's not like Ryzen didn't when it appeared. A few drivers updates, and bios updates and it will settle down as Ryzen did i'm sure.

I think that's a good way to put it. This power-consumption thing is a problem for sure, but it proves that shoving a bunch of watts into Gracemont cores does work, and that Windows11 can schedule big.LITTLE style in practical applications. There's more work to be done, but as a 1st gen product of a revolutionary design change, its pretty good. Its better than last generation for sure. Here's to hoping that Intel adds their biggest advantage to the chip soon: AVX512.

Maybe we'll figure out the proper mix of performance vs efficiency cores too. It very well could be that 4-performance cores + 32-efficiency cores would be a better tradeoff, for example.
 
D

Deleted member 24505

Guest
I think that's a good way to put it. This power-consumption thing is a problem for sure, but it proves that shoving a bunch of watts into Gracemont cores does work, and that Windows11 can schedule big.LITTLE style in practical applications. There's more work to be done, but as a 1st gen product of a revolutionary design change, its pretty good. Its better than last generation for sure. Here's to hoping that Intel adds their biggest advantage to the chip soon: AVX512.

Maybe we'll figure out the proper mix of performance vs efficiency cores too. It very well could be that 4-performance cores + 32-efficiency cores would be a better tradeoff, for example.

I could very well end up running it with E cores disabled. Also i have a custom loop ready to cool it, so i am not so fussed about keeping it cool.
 
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Messages
1,795 (1.42/day)
Location
Alaska USA
I have a 5800x and I am not spending 1000 dollars for ddr5 memory + Z690 motherboard + 12700k for 5 to 10% increase.
If AMD does things right AM5 will be amazing. :)
If only they had DDR4 boards for Alder Lake. :rolleyes:
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
2,661 (1.72/day)
I could very well end up running it with E cores disabled. Also i have a custom loop ready to cool it, so i am not so fussed about keeping it cool.

There's the rumored 6P+0E die that might be launching soon?

Rather than buying E-cores and then not using it... maybe it makes more sense to just not buy E-cores in the first place?
 
Top