Ryzen Owners: Is Alder Lake tempting enough to switch to Intel?

[lexluthermiester]

I could very well end up running it with E cores disabled. Also i have a custom loop ready to cool it, so i am not so fussed about keeping it cool.

A 12700k will not get THAT hot. You'll be fine. You won't need to disable the Ecores either.

 

[Timelessest]

If only they had DDR4 boards for Alder Lake.

If I was going to buy an Alder Lake CPU I would buy DDR5 memory.

 

[Mussels]

Why, because it's a power-hog? Being a power-hog does not make something garbage, especially if it is the top performer, which the 12900k is. Just look at the RTX3090 and 6900XT.

You want first class, grade A power-hog garbage? Look no further than the FX-9590. That was 220w stock, often getting into the 300w+ range under heavy load and still couldn't compete with with Intel's top offerings of the time.

AMD’s 5 GHz Turbo CPU in Retail: The FX-9590 and ASRock 990FX Extreme9 Review

www.anandtech.com

AMD’s 5 GHz Turbo CPU in Retail: The FX-9590 and ASRock 990FX Extreme9 Review

www.anandtech.com

View attachment 226311

The 12900k is the King of performance ATM. You can call it a power-hog all day long and no one can argue against that with any merit. But to call it garbage is objectively and patently false.

As has been said elsewhere, if users are on Zen3, Alder Lake is not going to be a compelling move. But for anyone on Zen1 or Zen2, the move is compelling for certain and it would be up to the individual user to decide if it would be right for them.

Oh god yeah, i avoided the FX series so hard. They were terrible and had the same problems we still see today - power hungry CPU's, with mobo makers cutting back on VRMs. I was intel until 6th gen, before going Zen.

12900k is king? but it breaks even in many cases, loses in some, and needs 200W to win a minority.
If you go through the TPU review, the story changes page by page. Below is the page names, for simplicity as i wanna go play diablo.

Superpi and Wprime: middle of the pack
rendering: Even. Seriously, AL is ahead in some, ryzen ahead in others.
Software and game development: 50/50 on that page, one for each team
Web browser: (what an odd benchmark, tbh): clean win for intel
AI: clear win for intel (even the lower wattage chips)
Science and research: small win for intel, but consistent
office and productivity: win for intel, but its well under 10%
server and workstation: chaos there. Intel smashes ahead in some, and falls behind wildly in others. Don't run MySQL on AL.
Compression and encryption: Intel wins in one test of 5. That's one for team Zen.
Media encoding: 12900K matches the 5950x quite well - at a much higher power cost.
Game tests: outside of 720p, they might as well be bloody equal. a 5600x is all modern games need for even high refresh gameplay.

So going by the TPU pages we have
Even:3
Intel:4
AMD:2

Does that show AL has promise? sure. Does it show its this ultimate godly product that's the best in every way? not a chance. And if you dont have the insane PL2 power targets, those wins go away and they're basically even (which is ideal for competition)

 

[mama]

Perhaps I wasn't specific enough. When I asked for a link, I was asking for one that acts as a citation for the claim that AMD has stated that they will be bringing VCache CPU's to AM4. I ask not because I don't know how to use a search engine but because I looked and couldn't find anything from AMD which specifically states that VCache CPU's are coming to socket AM4.

It's there. About 8 minutes in. AM4. Not sure how a "citation" works for this stuff but it's AMD people talking about what's upcoming for AMD on the AM4 platform. Take it or leave it.

 

[Melvis]

That I was unaware of, got a link?


That is what I've been saying, almost verbatim.

I cant find the thread, finding any thread in this forum is stupid hard since the update, so here is the Video of it anyway

 

[lexluthermiester]

If you go through the TPU review, the story changes page by page.

I read the review. And the summery was well stated.

Intel Core i9-12900K Review - Fighting for the Performance Crown

The Intel Core i9-12900K is Intel's flagship processor for the Alder Lake architecture. In our testing, we saw fantastic gaming performance from this new processor. Not only low-threaded tests have improved, the 12900K can even beat AMD at highly threaded workloads.

www.techpowerup.com

Sure, the top model from AMD wins a few tests but generally the only area where an AMD CPU has a lead is the CPU tests(5950X@3%). In every other metric the 12900k has the performance lead by 5% or better except in the 2160p test which shows GPU bottlenecking.

Those benchmarks are echoed all over the net. The 12900k is the performance King at the moment, full stop, end of story.

These reviews do show one thing very clearly, AMD is forcing Intel to pull out all the stops to compete. And that's only good for the consumer.

I cant find the thread, finding any thread in this forum is stupid hard since the update, so here is the Video of it anyway

For reference, that statement about VCache on AM4 is at 8:25. That's cool. They should be highlighting that fact not mentioning it as a side note so people know that AM4 has got more love coming.

 

[Shatun_Bear]

The power draw is way, way too high for the high end SKUs is my main issue. This is where Intel show just how far behind AMD they are.

The total platform cost would also be obscene for me coming from a 5900X. I'll have a look at Intel for the 3rd gen of this big.LITTLE cores experiment.

 

[Why_Me]

The power draw is way, way too high for the high end SKUs is my main issue. This is where Intel show just how far behind AMD they are.

The total platform cost would also be obscene for me coming from a 5900X. I'll have a look at Intel for the 3rd gen of this big.LITTLE cores experiment.

5900x = $500 USD
X570 = $200? USD

https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-aorus-z690-gaming-x-ddr4/p/N82E16813145347
GIGABYTE Z690 GAMING X DDR4 $229.99

https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i7-12700k-core-i7-12th-gen/p/N82E16819118343
Intel Core i7-12700K $418.88 Save: $31.11 (7%)

https://www.newegg.com/msi-liquid-cooling-system-mag-series/p/N82E16835846009
MSI MAG Series CORELIQUID 360R, ARGB CPU Liquid Cooler (AIO)
$94.99 Save: $45.00 (32%)
Free LGA1700 bracket w/ purchase, limited offer

https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/Z690-GAMING-X-DDR4-rev-10#kf

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-core-i7-12700k-review

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i7-12700k-alder-lake-12th-gen/

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Have to say, it'll take more than 250w to heat my room, wouldn't even notice it.

 

[dragontamer5788]

Have to say, it'll take more than 250w to heat my room, wouldn't even notice it.

I mean, GPUs these days are 400w easily.

A CPU going from 100w to 250w just isn't the dominant factor to PC heat anymore...

 

[Deleted member 24505]

I mean, GPUs these days are 400w easily.

A CPU going from 100w to 250w just isn't the dominant factor to PC heat anymore...

Exactly, I have felt a PSU pumping out more heat than my CPU cooler in the past. You have a 250w CPU and a 800w+ PSU, no one mentions the fact that they are quite willing to stick a sometimes 1kw+ PSU in their rig, but whine at a 240w CPU.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

5900x = $500 USD
X570 = $200? USD

https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-aorus-z690-gaming-x-ddr4/p/N82E16813145347
GIGABYTE Z690 GAMING X DDR4 $229.99

https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i7-12700k-core-i7-12th-gen/p/N82E16819118343
Intel Core i7-12700K $418.88 Save: $31.11 (7%)

https://www.newegg.com/msi-liquid-cooling-system-mag-series/p/N82E16835846009
MSI MAG Series CORELIQUID 360R, ARGB CPU Liquid Cooler (AIO)
$94.99 Save: $45.00 (32%)
Free LGA1700 bracket w/ purchase, limited offer

https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/Z690-GAMING-X-DDR4-rev-10#kf

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-core-i7-12700k-review

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i7-12700k-alder-lake-12th-gen/

Except he already owns the AMD rig , he isn't, out to buy it now!

And an unreleased chip, due to arrive soon might drop in what he already has.

Sell sell buy buy or wait wait

@Tigger a 1000 watt PSU doesn't burn 1000 Watt's


There's some scratching at straws and sympathetic rambling going on now , great.

 

[Timelessest]

Have to say, it'll take more than 250w to heat my room, wouldn't even notice it.

What about the noise caused by the cpu cooler? Since Alder lake has higher temperatures it will require more cooling to keep temperatures in check when compared to an AMD equivalent. Techspot's review even said that a 12900k probably needs a 360mm rad while a 5950x can be cooled down with an air cooler. This means more noise.

 

[Raiden85]

I'm currently using a 5950x with an Asus Crosshair Formula X570 and 64GB Corsair dominator platinum RAM.

So if I wanted the equivalent in performance and similar hardware I would have to go 12900k, Hero motherboard and same RAM in a DDR5 version it would cost me about £1400 just for a sidegrade.

100% not worth it and I get much higher power consumption and heat as well for my trouble.

If the next AMD chip uses the 3D cache, slightly higher IPC and maybe a small bump in clock speed at the same time then it's going to make that 12900k look like horrific value for money.

 

[lexluthermiester]

If the next AMD chip uses the 3D cache, slightly higher IPC and maybe a small bump in clock speed at the same time then it's going to make that 12900k look like horrific value for money.

That's not only possible, but likely. Time will tell though.

 

[Mussels]

If only they had DDR4 boards for Alder Lake.

and fortunately performance seems good on DDR4

Exactly, I have felt a PSU pumping out more heat than my CPU cooler in the past. You have a 250w CPU and a 800w+ PSU, no one mentions the fact that they are quite willing to stick a sometimes 1kw+ PSU in their rig, but whine at a 240w CPU.

You know that's kinda backwards right, higher wattage PSU's are often more efficient, and therefore reduce the heat output?

My computer room/study here (It's a re-used small kids bedroom) is often 10C hotter than any other room with power limits and underclocking, i used GPU mining to heat it through winter.
Now in spring, i need a room fan blowing air in from the hallway to cool it, and thats measured in the 300-350W range at the wall

(Don't forget, HUGE difference between a 500W sometimes system, and a 200W always system. constant load is the issue with the big wattages, like mining, or 8 hour game binges)

 

[AnotherReader]

I'm using a 3600X and while Alder Lake is pretty competitive, I have two generations of upgrades left on AM4. So I won't be going with Intel until it's time for a new build. For new builds, it is different. Right now, in Canada, the 5800X is available for $420 while the i5-12600k is available for $370. Of these, IMHO, the 12600k is a better buy.

 

[harm9963]

With my Asus DARK HERO MB, AND 5950X , I use Asus auto OC for water in BIOS , plus OC Ram 1.5v ,my system uses as much power as the 12900K , Cinebench 23 , up to 31600 from 25103.

 

[Makaveli]

I'm using a 3600X and while Alder Lake is pretty competitive, I have two generations of upgrades left on AM4. So I won't be going with Intel until it's time for a new build. For new builds, it is different. Right now, in Canada, the 5800X is available for $420 while the i5-12600k is available for $370. Of these, IMHO, the 12600k is a better buy.

View attachment 226698 View attachment 226699

Agreed.

Anyone on AM4 pre Zen 3 better to wait for official price reduction from AMD which should be coming soon. Brand new builds ADL-S should be considered, but DDR4 only don't think DDR5 is worth it at the moment.

 

[Mussels]

Agreed.

Anyone on AM4 pre Zen 3 better to wait for official price reduction from AMD which should be coming soon. Brand new builds ADL-S should be considered, but DDR4 only don't think DDR5 is worth it at the moment.

Oh yeah, Zen 3 is 100% going to drop in price soon enough... christmas, anyone?

 

[Konceptz]

DDR5 isn't mature enough, the whole P-core, E-core sounds like more of a headache than its worth from what little I've read.
I'll most likely pull the trigger on an 5800x, 32gb of ram, and whatever GPU makes sense at the time early next year.
Coming from an FX-8350...anything is an upgrade for me

Oh god yeah, i avoided the FX series so hard. They were terrible and had the same problems we still see today - power hungry CPU's, with mobo makers cutting back on VRMs. I was intel until 6th gen, before going Zen.

12900k is king? but it breaks even in many cases, loses in some, and needs 200W to win a minority.
If you go through the TPU review, the story changes page by page. Below is the page names, for simplicity as i wanna go play diablo.

Superpi and Wprime: middle of the pack
rendering: Even. Seriously, AL is ahead in some, ryzen ahead in others.
Software and game development: 50/50 on that page, one for each team
Web browser: (what an odd benchmark, tbh): clean win for intel
AI: clear win for intel (even the lower wattage chips)
Science and research: small win for intel, but consistent
office and productivity: win for intel, but its well under 10%
server and workstation: chaos there. Intel smashes ahead in some, and falls behind wildly in others. Don't run MySQL on AL.
Compression and encryption: Intel wins in one test of 5. That's one for team Zen.
Media encoding: 12900K matches the 5950x quite well - at a much higher power cost.
Game tests: outside of 720p, they might as well be bloody equal. a 5600x is all modern games need for even high refresh gameplay.

So going by the TPU pages we have
Even:3
Intel:4
AMD:2

Does that show AL has promise? sure. Does it show its this ultimate godly product that's the best in every way? not a chance. And if you dont have the insane PL2 power targets, those wins go away and they're basically even (which is ideal for competition)

Appreciate the informative and quick summary.

 

[csendesmark]

only ~16% Yes....

 

[Saltssaumure]

My 2600X and 1060 6GB are still chugging along. Might swap in a 5600X in a year or so, assuming that GPUs also become more available, but at the moment the entire 12th gen setup is far too expensive to justify.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

My 2600X and 1060 6GB are still chugging along. Might swap in a 5600X in a year or so, assuming that GPUs also become more available, but at the moment the entire 12th gen setup is far too expensive to justify.

I went from 2600x to 12700k, bIg difference indeed

 

[GLD]

My last Intel rig was a 1Ghz Pentium III. Then I built an Athlon XP 2500+ Batron rig and never looked back. Sticking with AMD.