Should owners of processors affected by security problems receive compensation?

[evernessince]

Wow, it's surprising that 26% of people here don't care if they take a performance hit and receive nothing in return. I guess brand image also equals brand forgiveness. Regardless, it's my opinion that the courts should hold Intel responsible, regardless of Intel apologists.

It's rather ironic that Intel's Coffee Lake was recommended over Zen for gaming due to niche 720p gaming performance yet we have a negative performance impact (especially for high end SSD performance) that's being completely forgiven.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I was joking, had the card from launch in oct 2014 up to july 2016 when i bought a 980Ti. Never had a problem with it, and very few games that occupied more than 3GB of vRAM even on 1440p.

Fair enough. There were many who did have problems though. Turning off a few things in the driver stopped it, but that kind of thing should never happen in the first place..

 

[arnold_al_qadr]

vote no, as long as fixes are provided, and next gen processor free from last gen problems..

 

[FYFI13]

The only customers that deserve full refund are Coffee Lake owners as Intel already knew about about issues before the release. Everyone else, including myself gonna have to get over it. Sh*t happens.

 

[phanbuey]

Wow, it's surprising that 26% of people here don't care if they take a performance hit and receive nothing in return. I guess brand image also equals brand forgiveness. Regardless, it's my opinion that the courts should hold Intel responsible, regardless of Intel apologists.

It's rather ironic that Intel's Coffee Lake was recommended over Zen for gaming due to niche 720p gaming performance yet we have a negative performance impact (especially for high end SSD performance) that's being completely forgiven.

26% of the people know that with tech there are always unforeseen flaws/ security/ and general issues that are yet to be discovered... TLB erratum, rowhammer vulnerabilities, FPU inaccuracies, various other design flaws such as IMT... etc. Every operation, every design element in a CPU is a potential opportunity for a defect. Different teams across the globe working on different features of the CPU that when they all come together is more opportunity for defects.

There are flaws that we are currently just fine living with that they haven't even touched.

If the flaw can be fixed then it's not a problem, if it is a deal breaker or the fix really does hammer out 30 % performance loss then there should be some repercussion or recompense to those heavily affected, however if, as evidenced by current benchmarks, the performance hit is trivial in most situations, then it's just another day...

 

[evernessince]

26% of the people know that with tech there are always unforeseen flaws/ security/ and general issues that are yet to be discovered... TLB erratum, rowhammer vulnerabilities, FPU inaccuracies, various other design flaws such as IMT... etc. Every operation, every design element in a CPU is a potential opportunity for a defect. Different teams across the globe working on different features of the CPU that when they all come together is more opportunity for defects.

There are flaws that we are currently just fine living with that they haven't even touched.

If the flaw can be fixed then it's not a problem, if it is a deal breaker or the fix really does hammer out 30 % performance loss then there should be some repercussion or recompense to those heavily affected, however if, as evidenced by current benchmarks, the performance hit is trivial in most situations, then it's just another day...

What gives you the right to claim to speak for other people? No, your opinion expressed here is your's and your's alone. Don't came in here on some high horse.

Two factors make this different than the other "potential flaws" your go on about. 1. Intel initiated in insider trading when it knew about these flaws 2. The flaws are the biggest we have ever seen period.

You don't just get to dismiss this security disaster because "oh flaws will always exist". That is exactly the kind of kiss ass behavior I was talking about, where people like you just brush off the biggest security flaw to date. Yes flaws will exist. That does not mean we give these companies a free pass.

"if it is a deal breaker or the fix really does hammer out 30 % performance loss then there should be some repercussion or recompense to those heavily affected, however if, as evidenced by current benchmarks, the performance hit is trivial in most situations, then it's just another day..."

What are you talking about, the performance impact for storage performance of high speed drives has been shown to be up to 55% fricking percent. Not only is anyone in the enterprise screwed, anyone who relies on their high speed drives are screwed as well. Did you not see the fortnite devs show the 30% increase in server CPU load after the patch? Everyone with an Intel processor is affected by at least a 3% performance dip in all applications all the way up to a 55% dip. Even if the impact isn't huge directly on your computer, you will most certainly see the affect on your online services you use.

Like I said, apologists excusing the worst security flaw ever.

 

[phanbuey]

What gives you the right to claim to speak for other people? No, your opinion expressed here is your's and your's alone. Don't came in here on some high horse.

So when you are talking about the 26% of people that voted "Not as long as fixes are provided" to mean "26% of people here don't care if they take a performance hit and receive nothing in return"

Hypocrisy much?

Your outrage shows a lack of understanding that literally every device on the market and every line of code written at some level has flaws. We still find flaws in production code that someone wrote in the 90's.

 

[lexluthermiester]

So when you are talking about the 26% of people that voted "Not as long as fixes are provided" to mean "26% of people here don't care if they take a performance hit and receive nothing in return" Hypocrisy much? Your outrage and lack of understanding that literally every device on the market and every line of code written at some level has flaws. We still find flaws in production code that someone wrote in the 90's.

It's not hypocrisy when the problem was completely unintentional and affects everyone in similar ways. Life happens, it sucks, but it happens. If we blame CPU makers for these vulnerabilities we then need to, by all proper rights, blame OS devs like Microsoft, Apple and Google for every unintentional vulnerability that is found in their products and force them to issues refunds too. The chances of that happening are zero.

@evernessince is right, you really need to get off that high-horse.

 

[phanbuey]

It's not hypocrisy when the problem was completely unintentional and affects everyone in similar ways. Life happens, it sucks, but it happens. If we blame CPU makers for these vulnerabilities we then need to, by all proper rights, blame OS devs like Microsoft, Apple and Google for every unintentional vulnerability that is found in their products and force them to issues refunds too. The chances of that happening are zero.

@evernessince is right, you really need to get off that high-horse.

I'm not the one blaming the CPU makers -- if you read, I was accused of being an apologist because I literally said the point you're making. I voted for "not as long as fixes are provided."

We aren't going to be holding companies accountable for completely unforeseen flaws that are natural to the industry that they are in. That's all I meant by my initial post.

"if, as evidenced by current benchmarks, the performance hit is trivial in most situations, then it's just another day..."

I like my high horse. It's nice up here. I also didn't insult or accuse anyone of anything... It's not being an apologist when you know what it's like to create something complicated, that makes people's lives better, that then turns out later has a horrific flaw in it. It happens all the time and it sucks for everyone -- but most of the time it's still better than what you had before.

Is it a huge flaw? Yes... Does it suck? Yes... We host a VM farm with a SQL data-warehouse and 3 different EMR systems to a hospital... it will slow us down. Is it the BIGGEST problem we will have? Hell no. It's most likely not even the biggest problem the Fortnight devs have had to deal with - flipping out like an outraged little girl is not going to do anything.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I like my high horse. It's nice up here.

Not disagreeing with your points, but rather your attitude .

I also didn't insult or accuse anyone of anything...

That's not the way it came off. Based on the vocabulary chosen, it seemed condescending. As evidenced by the following;

flipping out like an outraged little girl

You see? There is no need to drop to that level when you can succeed with factual information.

 

[eidairaman1]

I think current gen buyers should get a free replacement and those who bought 1-7 gens ago should receive a discount code/coupon up 50% off their next cpu purchase. Even release a fix if possible that is streamlined and stable without side effects.

I slso think some in here need to step away from their keyboards or phones go outside, stretch, breath deeply

 

[phanbuey]

Not disagreeing with your points, but rather your attitude .

That's not the way it came off. Based on the vocabulary chosen, it seemed condescending. As evidenced by the following;

You see? There is no need to drop to that level when you can succeed with factual information.

My first two posts weren't condescending... But if I am going to be accused, might as well do it. Plus I wasnt responding to you, but to:

What gives you the right to claim to speak for other people? No, your opinion expressed here is your's and your's alone. Don't came in here on some high horse.
...
Even if the impact isn't huge directly on your computer, you will most certainly see the affect on your online services you use.
...
Like I said, apologists excusing the worst security flaw ever.

THE WORST security flaw EVER... Really? Not the Mirai Botnet that brought down the Internet for a day in half the country and parts of Europe, not Wanna Cry that cost 4billion, not the fact that you have a billion hack-able devices on the planet and you drive one to work/school everyday. No... The worst security flaw EVER is a cache/prediction vulnerability that is so difficult to find it took some of the top engineers 30 years to even realize it's existence, and it has been used in no known attacks.

And if you don't think that then you're a F*#@*ing apologist.

 

[remixedcat]

I think the CPU owners should get compensation, after all we need payment for being raped by the CIA.

 

[flmatter]

No... The worst security flaw EVER is

your window in your home. A stone or someone's hard head.... hahahaha
Seriously @remixedcat you would not even know you were raped by the CIA, you would think aliens did it..... fire in the sky movie ring a bell?
If it can be fixed without a huge performance loss then I am fine with it. There are far worse things going on around you everyday that needs fixing that have permanent terminal results but people are fine with that. A small perf hit on your computer or smartphone and the world ends.... really?
@eidairaman1 post #36 sums it up very well and I agree

 

[phanbuey]

your window in your home. A stone or someone's hard head.... hahahaha
Seriously @remixedcat you would not even know you were raped by the CIA, you would think aliens did it..... fire in the sky movie ring a bell?
If it can be fixed without a huge performance loss then I am fine with it. There are far worse things going on around you everyday that needs fixing that have permanent terminal results but people are fine with that. A small perf hit on your computer or smartphone and the world ends.... really?
@eidairaman1 post #36 sums it up very well and I agree

Oh god the window in the home...

 

[INSTG8R]

I’m just fighting Windows blocking the patch because it breaks software that’s important to me. My Z97 Sabertooth needs this software to function fully and being Z97 it comes up just short of ASUS’s list to get a BIOS update. So yeah I’m a bit pissed about it but only because it’s inconveniencing me. I’m sure the reported loss of performance installing the patch will also irk me...

 

[eidairaman1]

Oh god the window in the home...

22LR

 

[Flaky]

I’m just fighting Windows blocking the patch because it breaks software that’s important to me. My Z97 Sabertooth needs this software to function fully and being Z97 it comes up just short of ASUS’s list to get a BIOS update. So yeah I’m a bit pissed about it but only because it’s inconveniencing me. I’m sure the reported loss of performance installing the patch will also irk me...

You are probably referring to AI Suite 3. There is an updated beta with fix.

Users of older version or other software should rather disable the meltdown mitigation (one click in inSpectre, or manually via registry), than fight with updates (what is a bad idea in general).

 

[qubit]

Offer free replacements, because the fixes have performance impacts.

 

[jaggerwild]

I WANT MY TWO DOLLARS!

 

[INSTG8R]

You are probably referring to AI Suite 3. There is an updated beta with fix.

Users of older version or other software should rather disable the meltdown mitigation (one click in inSpectre, or manually via registry), than fight with updates (what is a bad idea in general).

Nope the Beta doesn’t work for me it doesn’t see my sensors so can’t tune my fans and it leaves behind more crap that makes the one for my Mobo very unresponsive. I also have 2 smaller fans one for the VRM and another that supposedly cools the motherland my version of AI Suite has spin up and “dust control” reversers that that Beta wouldn’t know how to handle if it tried. I was thinking of using that program actually I really don’t like missing updates. This is the first time ever I’ve had to actually refuse an update of any kind but after giving that Beta a chance it ruined any chance of my version working to the point I had no choice but to reset Windows and start over

 

[lexluthermiester]

I WANT MY TWO DOLLARS!

TWOOO DOLLAAARSS! (name that movie..)

 

[GamerNerves]

The question is about security problems and if they are fixed, there is no issue. Permament performance loss is a different case and should be handled differently. I would accept the solution of a discount coupon on the next generation of processors, if it's at least 10 %.

 

[D3m]

10%? Why not 50% + a bottle of champagne.

 

[TheDeeGee]

There isn't a fix for Spectre V2, and there probably won't be.

I wouldn't mind a discount.