Should SATA get updated specs? Example SATA 4.0 @ 36Gbps, 48Gbps or 64Gbps.

[Valantar]

This (link) is also a practical solution for adding more nvme drives.

Yep, plenty of cheap and easily accessible options, and the open and flexible nature of PCIe makes it simple to implement.

 

[Aquinus]

Yep, plenty of cheap and easily accessible options, and the open and flexible nature of PCIe makes it simple to implement.

It was part of the reason why I invested in a Sandy Bridge E machine a decade ago. I wanted an NVMe drive a few years ago so I just used one of the many PCIe ports that it gives me, PCIe 3.0 no less. With PCIe lanes, anything is possible and you can do a lot with 40 of them.

 

[Zareek]

What I would prefer going forward is m.2 sockets fitted to cases (replacing 2.5" SSD sleds) that connect to nVME channels on the motherboard (as more channels become available on CPU's) via a slim cable similar to SATA. I know that something like this is already available in the server world (u.2? although could be wrong with the terminology as not that up on enterprise gear), but would like to see this become mainstream in consumer systems.

As for new SATA specs, I think that it is coming towards the end & moving forward with nVME would be a better option IMHO. If SATA manufacturing was ceased & put into nVME manufacturing/development, the prices of the lower end nVME (which is still faster than highest end consumer SATA), we would start seeing the cost per Terabyte on nVME come down to similar levels of high end SATA storage with lower power overheads. If going forward with SATA type devices, consumer grade SAS would be a nice replacement.

I love that idea, the whole case chassis could act like a big heat spreader too. I'm not saying it would be cheap or easy to implement but if they can make 16X PCIe risers then it seems doable.

 

[lexluthermiester]

The SATA connector could be fitted with more connectors like they did with USB and still remain backward compatible. They could also expand the edge connector out with more connections. For example, see below:

This is just a quick mock-up, but something like this would preserve backward compatibility while providing for greatly expanded bandwidth potential.

 

[ir_cow]

Wikipedia does not even know of this... you sure?

I'm pretty sure. My ASUS X79 Black Edition had it. It was two SATA ports combined together. I'm not sure anything every came out for it. You could just use one of the ports like a normal SATA. Together it would be bridged.

Edit: I think it was SAS actually. Still basically SATA with more bandwidth.

 

[eidairaman1]

The SATA connector could be fitted with more connectors like they did with USB and still remain backward compatible. They could also expand the edge connector out with more connections. For example, see below:
View attachment 247849
This is just a quick mock-up, but something like this would preserve backward compatibility while providing for greatly expanded bandwidth potential.

Since it's a Serial Bus like USB they can increase the frequency.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I'm pretty sure. My ASUS X79 Black Edition had it. It was two SATA ports combined together. I'm not sure anything every came out for it.

They were very rare and it was a cumbersome solution.

 

[eidairaman1]

They were very rare and it was a cumbersome solution.

Probably not as bad as IDE

I'm pretty sure. My ASUS X79 Black Edition had it. It was two SATA ports combined together. I'm not sure anything every came out for it. You could just use one of the ports like a normal SATA. Together it would be bridged.

Edit: I think it was SAS actually. Still basically SATA with more bandwidth.

Sounds more like it

 

[lexluthermiester]

Probably not as bad as IDE

True! What made SATA great was the compact nature and ease of use of the connector.

 

[R-T-B]

I'm pretty sure. My ASUS X79 Black Edition had it. It was two SATA ports combined together. I'm not sure anything every came out for it. You could just use one of the ports like a normal SATA. Together it would be bridged.

Edit: I think it was SAS actually. Still basically SATA with more bandwidth.

Yeah SAS. SAS12 is a seperate standard though.

True! What made SATA great was the compact nature and ease of use of the connector.

I'll hand you that. The power connector wasn't as good as the data one IMO, but was still easily a step above molex.

 

[AusWolf]

Yeah SAS. SAS12 is a seperate standard though.


I'll hand you that. The power connector wasn't as good as the data one IMO, but was still easily a step above molex.

My only issue with the data cable is when you're connecting a 2.5" laptop HDD into a desktop PC - the cable doesn't click and comes loose very easily. The power one is fine, just a bit bulky on some PSUs.

 

[TheLostSwede]

The SATA connector could be fitted with more connectors like they did with USB and still remain backward compatible. They could also expand the edge connector out with more connections. For example, see below:
View attachment 247849
This is just a quick mock-up, but something like this would preserve backward compatibility while providing for greatly expanded bandwidth potential.

But that's what they did with SATA Express and you rebuked everyone that said it was backwards compatible...

 

[eidairaman1]

Yeah SAS. SAS12 is a seperate standard though.


I'll hand you that. The power connector wasn't as good as the data one IMO, but was still easily a step above molex.

Strange i never had molex fail.

My only issue with the data cable is when you're connecting a 2.5" laptop HDD into a desktop PC - the cable doesn't click and comes loose very easily. The power one is fine, just a bit bulky on some PSUs.

You should gave SATA 3 cables, just bend the locking tab higher. I did it on a mx 500.

 

[Kaleid]

Yes, SATA3 speeds are a bit slow and most motherboards only have 2 m.2 slots.
They are also more difficult to remove from the system as they are hidden underneath heatsinks these days.

 

[R-T-B]

Strange i never had molex fail.

I'm less concerned with failure and more concerned with ease of use. Anyone can plug the thing in at the end of the day without it failing, but how much force is required? etc.

 

[AusWolf]

You should gave SATA 3 cables, just bend the locking tab higher. I did it on a mx 500.

SSDs and normal HDDs are fine, but laptop HDDs generally don't lock with the cable, I don't know why.

 

[TheLostSwede]

SSDs and normal HDDs are fine, but laptop HDDs generally don't lock with the cable, I don't know why.

Because there's a laptop specific connector that also delivers power.

 

[Zareek]

Strange i never had molex fail.


You should gave SATA 3 cables, just bend the locking tab higher. I did it on a mx 500.

I was thinking the same thing. Sometimes they locked too well. I had one that broke the data connector off a 2.5" SSD taking it off. Granted, I should have been more careful and in less of a rush. Thankfully, Samsung replaced the drive under warranty. I even told them I broke it, it was my fault, and they replaced it free of charge shipping both ways. It didn't cost me a penny and took 3 days in total.

 

[Tetras]

I used to think sata was great (the chunks knocked out of my fingers by removing molex certainly did), then I discovered M.2 and now my opinion: die sata, just die, with your annoying fragile connectors and stupid cables. But, until there's 3 or 4 m.2 slots available on a board (and enough lanes for them to actually work properly: looking at you B660/H610), I can't see sata being replaced entirely. So, an upgrade taking them closer to PCI-E drives in performance would be pretty nice.

My understanding is that it still wouldn't be compatible with DirectStorage, something about the protocol and overheads being higher, or more complex with sata? Idk exactly what the details are.

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

but afaik not a single retail drive was ever made.

New faster standards are fine and dandy but if you dont have full cooperation from those that matter (drive makers), all this wishful thinking is pointless. When HDDs can reach NVMe transfer speeds, that will be the day the SATA standard is no longer needed.

 

[Calenhad]

Let sata die a slow death. It is going in the same bin as pata did years. Especially now that people hardly use ODD anymore either. USB have taken over that task.

If you really want to have drives attached with cables, I'd rather see U.2 take over that niche.

Well, I guess it's how many nvme drives can I plug into a motherboard? I have 4 sata ssds, used to have 5. Would like more. If they would give more pci-e lanes
on modern motherboards and give you 4-6 nvme slots, it would be a no brainer. Otherwise... sata ssds are going to be around for awhile.

Not a problem. There are x570 motherboards available with 6 m.2 nvme slots for example.

 

[Zareek]

Let sata die a slow death. It is going in the same bin as pata did years. Especially now that people hardly use ODD anymore either. USB have taken over that task.

If you really want to have drives attached with cables, I'd rather see U.2 take over that niche.


Not a problem. There are x570 motherboards available with 6 m.2 nvme slots for example.

Which board has 6? I thought the stupidly expensive MSI MEG X570 Godlike with 5 was the most you can get.

 

[Aquinus]

The SATA connector could be fitted with more connectors like they did with USB and still remain backward compatible. They could also expand the edge connector out with more connections. For example, see below:
View attachment 247849
This is just a quick mock-up, but something like this would preserve backward compatibility while providing for greatly expanded bandwidth potential.

Isn't that was SATA Express was? Two SATA ports plus some extra pins for magic?

But that's what they did with SATA Express and you rebuked everyone that said it was backwards compatible...

You beat me to the punch.

Which board has 6? I thought the stupidly expensive MSI MEG X570 Godlike with 5 was the most you can get.

Just get a board that supports PCIe bifurcation and run one of those multi-NVMe cards that take up a 16x slot and has 4x M.2 slots. Problem solved.

 

[demirael]

I'm pretty sure. My ASUS X79 Black Edition had it. It was two SATA ports combined together. I'm not sure anything every came out for it. You could just use one of the ports like a normal SATA. Together it would be bridged.

Edit: I think it was SAS actually. Still basically SATA with more bandwidth.

Sounds like SATA Express, which failed because NVMe was just around the corner and faster.

Since it's a Serial Bus like USB they can increase the frequency.

Except USB isn't really serial in the more modern iterations, and higher frequencies make designing things harder. Cables start to act like antennas when you're pushing several hundred MHz signals through them. You can't just "increase frequency".

 

[eidairaman1]

Sounds like SATA Express, which failed because NVMe was just around the corner and faster.


Except USB isn't really serial in the more modern iterations, and higher frequencies make designing things harder. Cables start to act like antennas when you're pushing several hundred MHz signals through them. You can't just "increase frequency".

Heavier shielding, and I know about EMI

And they shield cat 6-8 for said reason