ThrottleStop P & E Core support?

[carlos1172]

You are welcome.

Most people find that at a certain point, increasing the core offset does not accomplish anything. When running Cinebench, what sort of improvements to temperatures or performance do you see when going from

-85 mV for core and cache to

-85 mV cache and -100 mV core or -150 mV core or -200 mV or finally -250 mV core?

I am just curious. Is there any improvement that you can clearly prove when Cinebench testing?

With some previous gen CPUs, there was no real improvement after a difference of about 50 mV. You could set the core offset request to the max, up to -1000 mV, and the CPU would simply ignore the majority of that request. The cache voltage was the main limiting factor.

Hello. Lowered pCore to -125mV, pCache to -75mV, everything else 0. Getting 19k CB r23 multi core with e cores disabled in the bios. Constant. Consistent. TVB is on.

I'll try lowering pCore to -75mV as well to be in sync, and for any potential stability gains (I was stable at -80mV pCache but just lowered to -75 to be safe).

Previously no undervolt yields throttling thus 14-17k score w e cores disabled.

Edit. Lowering both to -75mV yields 16k CB r23. -150mV pCore, -75mV pCache = 19 CB r23.
Edit 2. IDK how much lower on pCore will do anything. I jumped straight to -150mV because someone told me pCore can be 2x the undervolt of pCache.

 

[unclewebb]

pCore can be 2x the undervolt of pCache

I think the 2:1 ratio between core and cache is mostly a myth. I think a difference of about 75 mV works well. That happens to be a 2:1 ratio which I think is mostly just a coincidence.

Your much better Cinebench scores prove that undervolting the core more than the cache works best. People have been arguing about this for years. Some users still believe that the core and cache need to be undervolted equally but that is definitely not the case. Cinebench uses a high percentage of AVX instructions which I think show the most benefit from using different voltages. Most recent games also use a lot of AVX instructions so different voltages should help there too.

TVB is on

You can clear the Thermal Velocity Boost box in the FIVR window if you want to get rid of TVB throttling. It is not a bad feature for laptops running on the edge of thermal throttling. For maximum performance, I would clear the Thermal Velocity Boost box. It is more of a throttling feature than a boost feature. No one likes to be throttled so Intel renamed it boost. That sounds better.

Thanks for sharing your results.

 

[Dr. Dro]

I get lower CB r23 results with TVB on, is that okay? (around 15k, even if -150mV pCore -75mV pCache). Honestly I only care about single core speeds as that is what games need. If it can still boost to 5.4 GHz I'm okay with that even if multicore drops.

TVB relies on cooling headroom to raise one core's clocks at the expense of power consumption. This is to be expected if your system has insufficient cooling.

 

[carlos1172]

TVB relies on cooling headroom to raise one core's clocks at the expense of power consumption. This is to be expected if your system has insufficient cooling.

I get lower CB r23 results with TVB off, is that okay? (around 15k, even if -150mV pCore -75mV pCache). Honestly I only care about single core speeds as that is what games need. If it can still boost to 5.4 GHz I'm okay with that even if multicore drops.

Sorry I meant I get lower scores with TVB off. 12-15k. Whereas TVB on, -75mV pCache -150mV pCore i get 19k.

In both cases, e cores are disabled.

 

[unclewebb]

is that okay?

Thermal Velocity Boost not checked might cause more thermal throttling or power limit throttling depending on how your computer is setup.

Use whatever settings work best.

 

[carlos1172]

Thermal Velocity Boost not checked might cause more thermal throttling or power limit throttling depending on how your computer is setup.

Use whatever settings work best.

greater than -75mV on pCore seems to marginally help thermals, and get higher scores, but having it -75mV pCore and pCache makes me feel safer in games for stability so I'll stick with that. Thanks for all your help everyone?

Lastly, no need to touch System Agent? Doesn't help lower thermals? What does that even do anyway, the System Agent?

Oh and, my TPL looks like this.

is that okay?

 

[unclewebb]

@carlos1172
Why did you set the turbo time limit to 3,670,016 seconds? Did you see this setting on a YouTube video? That is equivalent to 42 days of maximum turbo boost. That seems like a lot for a laptop. I would use the default 28 seconds. That should be enough. I would also set the PP0 Turbo Time Limit back to the minimum value, 0.0010 seconds. Move the slider all the way to the left.

having it -75mV pCore and pCache makes me feel safer in games for stability

Did using different voltages cause any problems in games? It does not make any sense to make adjustments based on your feelings. Only make adjustments in ThrottleStop if you can prove that adjustment is good or bad for your computer. Do not make any adjustments based on what some other user used in his YouTube video. I have seen a lot of ThrottleStop videos. Many of them recommend settings that are nonsense. Do your own testing instead of blindly following anything.

Lastly, no need to touch System Agent? Doesn't help lower thermals?

You need to test if undervolting the System Agent is a good thing to do on your computer. Does it lower power consumption? Does it increase performance? If it does something beneficial and does not cause your computer to crash then adjust it. If you do not see any benefits then do not touch it. I never discovered a significant drop in power consumption so I have not tried adjusting the System Agent in many years.

Anandtech has some info about the System Agent. I think this info is still relevant for newer CPUs.

Intel's Sandy Bridge Architecture Exposed

www.anandtech.com

 

[Dr. Dro]

SA voltage is particularly sensitive in newer chips and in my experience with the i9-13900KS will introduce instabilities if it's off the mark by even a very small amount. The default value is unreliable and may be far too high for your particular CPU, as is the case with mine. It affects the stability of all uncore slices (cache, graphics, and memory controller) - some CPUs like this very low, others need a bit more juice, YMMV. If the default works just fine for you, I advise not touching it at all.

 

[carlos1172]

@carlos1172
Why did you set the turbo time limit to 3,670,016 seconds? Did you see this setting on a YouTube video? That is equivalent to 42 days of maximum turbo boost. That seems like a lot for a laptop. I would use the default 28 seconds. That should be enough. I would also set the PP0 Turbo Time Limit back to the minimum value, 0.0010 seconds. Move the slider all the way to the left.


Did using different voltages cause any problems in games? It does not make any sense to make adjustments based on your feelings. Only make adjustments in ThrottleStop if you can prove that adjustment is good or bad for your computer. Do not make any adjustments based on what some other user used in his YouTube video. I have seen a lot of ThrottleStop videos. Many of them recommend settings that are nonsense. Do your own testing instead of blindly following anything.


You need to test if undervolting the System Agent is a good thing to do on your computer. Does it lower power consumption? Does it increase performance? If it does something beneficial and does not cause your computer to crash then adjust it. If you do not see any benefits then do not touch it. I never discovered a significant drop in power consumption so I have not tried adjusting the System Agent in many years.

Anandtech has some info about the System Agent. I think this info is still relevant for newer CPUs.

Intel's Sandy Bridge Architecture Exposed

www.anandtech.com

My logic was as follows, higher than -75mV on pCore left marginal gains. I was lazy to stability test it. -75mV on pCache I thoroughly tested. Hence, if -150mV was stable on pCore, -75mV should be more stable. So I matched the two.

Seems like I won't touch SA anymore. Thank you @unclewebb @Dr. Dro

SA voltage is particularly sensitive in newer chips and in my experience with the i9-13900KS will introduce instabilities if it's off the mark by even a very small amount. The default value is unreliable and may be far too high for your particular CPU, as is the case with mine. It affects the stability of all uncore slices (cache, graphics, and memory controller) - some CPUs like this very low, others need a bit more juice, YMMV. If the default works just fine for you, I advise not touching it at all.

What default value of SA do you mean? +/- 0mV offset is unstable?

 

[Dr. Dro]

My logic was as follows, higher than -75mV on pCore left marginal gains. I was lazy to stability test it. -75mV on pCache I thoroughly tested. Hence, if -150mV was stable on pCore, -75mV should be more stable. So I matched the two.

Seems like I won't touch SA anymore. Thank you @unclewebb @Dr. Dro


What default value of SA do you mean? +/- 0mV offset is unstable?

Default SA voltage varies by motherboard or computer model and is set to an arbitrary value by the manufacturer. Usually it's a value that is high enough so even the worst binned processors work and may not necessarily be a good value for your configuration.

If you do not have problems with SA voltage with your current memory speed or iGPU clock settings as it is, do not lower or raise it, unless you are meaning to experiment. You may get a small improvement but you may also make your PC quite a bit unstable.

 

[carlos1172]

Default SA voltage varies by motherboard or computer model and is set to an arbitrary value by the manufacturer. Usually it's a value that is high enough so even the worst binned processors work and may not necessarily be a good value for your configuration.

If you do not have problems with SA voltage with your current memory speed or iGPU clock settings as it is, do not lower or raise it, unless you are meaning to experiment. You may get a small improvement but you may also make your PC quite a bit unstable.

Okay I won't touch it haha. Thanks so much!

 

[carlos1172]

@Dr. Dro @unclewebb Is there a way to keep my all core boost multiplier at 48 (4800 MHz all core), whilst undervolting power limit?

I used TPL to put long power limit to 100w, but now it only reaches 4500 mhz. But at least it doesn't ever throttle. What does clamp do, and should I enable it/disable it?

Edit: I think I've settled on 107w PL1, 190w PL2, Turbo Time Limit 0.0010, TVB on/off (still testing), -80mV pCore, -80mV pCache, with eCores disabled. I left clampe disabled, and sync MMIO enabled.

Getting a score of 57-58 on TS Bench 16 Thread 960M.

Edit 2:
What does Turbo Time Limit Do? If I set it to max, it turbos PL1 or PL2? Anyhow, I want the shortest possible turbo time wherein my CPU can still turbo 5.4 GHz on short tasks and never reach 100C. 28s is too long, 0.0010s is too short. 0.0010s ends turbo b4 short tasks are done, such as opening programs. What do you guys set it to?

Edit 3:
My Lenovo Legion Y9000P comes with Lenovo Vantage software. In it, I can set clock speeds to 5.6 GHz on single core tasks, but it doesn't seem to work. Setting 1 core to 5.6 GHz via ThrottleStop doesn't work either. Any clues?

 

[unclewebb]

The turbo time limit is measured in seconds. Setting the time limit to 0.0010 seconds tells the CPU that you want maximum turbo boost to only last for 1 / 1000 of a second. That does not make any sense. The typical Intel default used to be 28 seconds and then to compete with AMD that default seemed to get inflated up to 56 seconds. For most laptops, I think about 8 seconds of full turbo boost would be a better choice. This is really going to depend on how good your cooling is and how high you set the PL2 power limit compared to what your cooling can handle. That means your CPU would be able to run at the PL2 power limit of 190W for up to 8 seconds and then it would switch to the lower PL1 limit of 100W after that.

The turbo time limit is not an exact number. If set to 8 seconds, there can be situations where the CPU decides to give way more than 8 seconds of full turbo boost. Different CPU models are unique. You will need to play with this setting to find out what time value is the best compromise between performance and heat.

If you use Lenovo Vantage and ThrottleStop together at the same time, I have no idea what program will be in charge of your turbo ratios. There is only one CPU register that controls the turbo ratios. It would be easy to end up with a situation where both programs will be writing different values to the same CPU register. You should avoid doing that by running Vantage or ThrottleStop but not both together at the same time.

I can set clock speeds to 5.6 GHz on single core tasks, but it doesn't seem to work

If you only set the 1 Active Core multiplier to 56, this will rarely if ever be used during normal use. When testing older CPUs, I found that the typical load of Windows background tasks means you have to set the 1 Active Core, 2 Active Cores and 3 Active Cores all to the same multiplier value if you want this value to be used when a single core is active. This is another setting that you need to play around with to see what setting will accomplish what you are trying to accomplish.

 

[carlos1172]

The turbo time limit is measured in seconds. Setting the time limit to 0.0010 seconds tells the CPU that you want maximum turbo boost to only last for 1 / 1000 of a second. That does not make any sense. The typical Intel default used to be 28 seconds and then to compete with AMD that default seemed to get inflated up to 56 seconds. For most laptops, I think about 8 seconds of full turbo boost would be a better choice. This is really going to depend on how good your cooling is and how high you set the PL2 power limit compared to what your cooling can handle. That means your CPU would be able to run at the PL2 power limit of 190W for up to 8 seconds and then it would switch to the lower PL1 limit of 100W after that.

The turbo time limit is not an exact number. If set to 8 seconds, there can be situations where the CPU decides to give way more than 8 seconds of full turbo boost. Different CPU models are unique. You will need to play with this setting to find out what time value is the best compromise between performance and heat.

If you use Lenovo Vantage and ThrottleStop together at the same time, I have no idea what program will be in charge of your turbo ratios. There is only one CPU register that controls the turbo ratios. It would be easy to end up with a situation where both programs will be writing different values to the same CPU register. You should avoid doing that by running Vantage or ThrottleStop but not both together at the same time.


If you only set the 1 Active Core multiplier to 56, this will rarely if ever be used during normal use. When testing older CPUs, I found that the typical load of Windows background tasks means you have to set the 1 Active Core, 2 Active Cores and 3 Active Cores all to the same multiplier value if you want this value to be used when a single core is active. This is another setting that you need to play around with to see what setting will accomplish what you are trying to accomplish.

Thanks for your reply. I will keep my findings updated in https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...-cinebench-r23-any-ideas.310234/#post-5043130