USB-powered Recording Interface Noise

[robot zombie]

To be fair, if there is an issue with the usb on your motherboard, that isn't the fault of the usb standard itself.

I've been using a focusrite usb interface for 2 or 3 years without any problem (mine is powered from its own brick from the wall, not from usb though).
Initially I was a bit sceptical about using usb but it works fine IME.

Well done for figuring out the source of the problem anyway.

Any decent mobo should be fine, if the usb isn't faulty.

See, that's the thing. I don't think the USB actually is faulty. I think it's a design weakness. I think the choice in components/layout will probably make any of this particular model have the same problem. And you know? The ports do function just fine otherwise. I can't fully say they're bad just because one specific type of device doesn't work with them. For your typical range of common USB devices, they work perfectly fine with no power or throughput related issues. I've gathered/borrowed almost every different kind of USB device looking for one that suffers from this. I don't know if its out there. For 99% of people, they'd never know how dirty the ports on this board are. Most applications will not suffer from this. Not even all audio devices suffer from this. So to me, the more commonsense assumption is to blame the device for not working with the computer, not the other way around. Obviously it's not that simple but it's like you have one device that doesn't work with something and a whole pile that do... ...logical thing is to look at that device.

USB's just generally not good for timing or noise sensitive applications. And most of the time it doesn't have to be. Pick any other random USB device and chances are it doesn't care. Why would mobo manufacturers spend the money improving something that they think most people won't benefit from or be willing to pay more for? I think coincidentally many do throw down where it counts for USB audio without even realizing they're preventing problems there. Maybe it's not even cheapness, but a simple unforseen design vulnerability? USB audio's not really a consideration, outside of it being expected to work like any other device that can plug into that port. I don't even know that they could predict it if they wanted to. Sure, USB audio is huge now, but USB isn't really seen as an audio port in the same way that say, SPDIF variants are because truly, it isn't. It often works for that, but not because it was meant to. USB is kinda weak and unreliable for audio. When it works, it works. But when it doesn't, it just won't. Digital audio is a specialized application. USB is a general solution. What would typically be considered acceptable for USB standards doesn't always line up with what audio demands. I think it's too complex to be expected to work like other things do with USB.

That's why I go easy on mobo manufacturers for this. I don't see it as their job to know that USB can be finicky for audio - that's just audio in general. The developers on the audio side of things should know this perfectly well, though. So to me, it is on them to find a way to mitigate the noise vulnerability and still make their devices accessible. Interface manufacturers aren't on this, though. And I've let them know. I mean... I know it's possible. I'm sitting here with a Schiit Modi 2 Uber USB dac that is whisper quiet taking that same crummy USB signal that the Focusrite and Behringer barfed out into my speakers. If it doesn't work on every USB port that is up to the generally accepted quality standards for USB, that's a problem. It's long been known that USB can be noisy and have real-time throughput issues. And that's why most of the devices designed to interface that way don't demand clean, consistent throughput. They're perfectly content to drop packets and deal with noise because to them data is still just data. At the end of the day it'll eventually get constructed 1 to 1. Doesn't work so well with a continuous, but fluctuating data stream that needs to be shot through and built-up accurately in real-time. Minor interference that would normally get discarded becomes a real problem.

I'm not saying it's right to make motherboards with crappy USB ports... ...it's just when the flaws generally do not affect the intended use and only appear when you're going off of the beaten path (such as with audio,) it's hard not to blame the choice to use USB in the first place. It just so happens that what has generally floated by with USB standards for years isn't necessarily good enough for audio. And you can't expect USB to change for audio when there are other options that are better. The audio devices can change, though.

FWIW I don't think USB audio sounds shitty or anything. In my limited use of the 2i2 I actually really like it and can't wait to use it. The headphone out is powerful and sounds good. I've used USB audio for years on other machines with few complaints. Like I said, it's fine when it works. It's just that chance that it just wont work, for reasons you can't know, but are predictable, that makes it hard to defend for me. You know what I mean? There is nothing worse than having to replace a major component that actually works as it was made to, just because it won't work for one specific thing that you'd usually expect it would, even if it's not explicitly meant to. By going with USB as a standard I feel like we're kind of putting an expectation on it that it was never actually meant to handle. And not surprisingly, it doesn't always. Which sucks because when that happens you're pretty much out of options. And because of that I'm now out $120 on a mobo that works as advertised. If I'm lucky Asus will take it back with 7 months on it.

Just my opinion on it. At the end of the day I AM getting a new mobo

The PSU is very important too, but it sounds like you've isolated the mobo as the culprit.
Quality of power is always going to be critical for audio, if you feed it dirty power it will be hard for it to make clean sounds.

Yepyep. My first thought was power. Any time there's noise, it's an issue with either power, isolation, or both. Fortunately I have two completely unique builds to test with or I'd never know.

 

[Beastie]

Maybe I dodged a bullet by paying more for the focusrite with its own PSU brick.
Though that wasn't on my mind at the time, I just wanted something with a SPDIF out and went for the appropriate spec.

You're right though, a thumb drive or xbox controller will be much less fussy than audio.

Fingers crossed and the new mobo will be a goodun.

 

[robot zombie]

Maybe I dodged a bullet by paying more for the focusrite with its own PSU brick.
Though that wasn't on my mind at the time, I just wanted something with a SPDIF out and went for the appropriate spec.

You're right though, a thumb drive or xbox controller will be much less fussy than audio.

Haha yeah the brick and SPDIF out are the way to go. I don't even need the SPDIF with my modi 2 but I use it anyway.

Any time I've heard of anyone having these issues, its with a USB-powered dac, interface, or headset. It's definitely a thing. Though weirdly enough, I actually tried a Schiit Wyrd, which completely does not connect to the power on the USB hub and instead injects its own linear 5v. And even that didn't seem to work. For what its worth it reduced the noise, just not enough. I'm betting if I put a ground loop isolator after it would've. Just gotta put your dongle in the hub

Fingers crossed and the new mobo will be a goodun.

Thanks. I'm hoping so, too. I nabbed a like new Strix X370 for the same money I had tied up in the returned Wyrd. Couldn't pass it up for 120 shipped. Why? Well I guess I just like to gamble. I honestly really liked the Strix B350, so I wanted something like it with maybe a little better quality. Costs me nothing at this point anyway. So help me if this board fucks me I will never buy Asus again.

Nah but if that works, all I have to do is get Asus to help me out on the B350. If I ever get that money back, I'll nab another 8 gigs of ram and call it zen harmony and just have an all around better setup in the end. I meant to have a scarlett solo with unbalanced outs hooked up to this B350, Ryzen 3, 8GB of ram machine. Instead I'll be running a 2i2 on an X370/Ryzen 3 with 16GB of ram. I'm okay with this outcome.

 

[nomdeplume]

Alright, here is what you do.

Buy an externally powered USB hub. Buy a medical grade outlet from your local big box hardware store.

More than likely this $15 outlay will isolate the recording interface from USB noise and help eliminate issues stemming from other powered household items.

 

[robot zombie]

Alright, here is what you do.

Buy an externally powered USB hub. Buy a medical grade outlet from your local big box hardware store.

More than likely this $15 outlay will isolate the recording interface from USB noise and help eliminate issues stemming from other powered household items.

I only wish it was that easy. I have tried hubs, I tried ground-isolating dongles, and I tried a really fancy $100 hub - this, which works to isolate power like a powered hub might, only with a fancy linear power supply.

Never heard of people using hospital grade receptacles, that's a good idea. May actually do that anyway, heh.

But yeah, after a lot of back and forth before and after isolating it to the motherboard I've decided to just swap in a different board... ...as much as a pain in the ass as that is.

 

[Solaris17]

awaiting the new board I really want to know how it ends. Though a board is technically the only thing left in my eyes and the power circuitry driving the usb system.

 

[robot zombie]

Hush, you! Don't jinx it. You don't know my luck.

If amazon is on their game, I'll have it in my hands on Saturday. We shall see...

 

[nomdeplume]

Obviously you had a new mb enroute which should fix at least one major leading cause. In general the order of operation for assuring good sound starts with removing as much junk off the power feeding everything as possible. You seem to have a decent idea about linear psu and sound quality so I'll expand on this slightly. The idea to keep in mind is there are myriad problems and you only need to introduce solutions that fix the ones you have. There is no point in using a powered hub, introduces yet more circuitry and potential signal loss in the audio chain, if it doesn't actively fix anything.

Take a look at your breaker box and figure out what else is on the same circuit with your troublesome computer. I know this is going to be to hard to swallow for many but LED bulbs/lights dump an amazing amount of noise back into the power lines. Same for a fridge when the compressor kicks on or an air conditioner. Unplug something and see if it has a noticeable effect. If it does try to put it on a different outlet or in another location that isn't directly connected to your computer.

What the medical grade outlet does is help assure the physical wiring makes as good a connection as possible so there is no leakage or unintentional grounding. Obviously a more expensive outlet will have more sophisticated construction and more expensive parts used. This doesn't mean it will work better for your situation than a $10 one. Merely that is purpose built for a specific implementation or power draw cycle/device instead of being more general purpose. Nerd out enough and rewards are worth the effort.

You can also look at a power conditioner, UPS, if your power service is prone towards instability. This is about the most I would expect to spend to improve an interface at home unless you are doing some serious work with it. From there it gets very expensive in time and money to create a bubble for your audio against the outside world. Especially if you live in an apartment. The Schiit device, if you read carefully or ask them nicely, is built around the idea you have all of the above in place. They only promise it has capability to work a set amount. Meaning if you start from a good place it will make larger improvement that are very satisfying and noticeable. If it is fighting a polluted atmosphere the qualitative effect will be lessened considerably even though it has the exact same amount of effect. If you like I may be able to dig up a place or two where Jason said this explicitly. Effectively I'm comparing exerting the same amount of force on a ball to try rolling it across a smooth even floor or through mud.

Hope at least some of this helps and you get back to enjoying using your interface.



*Bonus audio related video I was surprised to find on the Gamers Nexus channel.

 

[robot zombie]

Welp, got my new Asus Strix x370 in. It went okay, aside from minor annoyances routing cables. Left me with a few issues on the Windows 10 end of things... ...windows really just doesn't like that. Swap a mobo and suddenly the darnedest things go haywire. Things not even related.

So tonight I'll be checking/fixing that stuff. Should be no big deal. Done it all before. Just a pain in the ass how much can depend specifically on the mobo. At least it all booted and detected my drives properly. I couldn't believe it.

But here's the kicker. THE NOISE IS STILL THERE. No more beeping and such. Just a constant humming on boot now. And then when booted to windows I hear these little scratchy noises. Pretty faint. A hell of a lot more livable, I guess...

But still. Not. Fixed. Maybe it's a combination of weaknesses with the mobo and power supply. Maybe neither of my PSU's are up for it. Who knows? It's possible something I did before might fix the issue now. I may have just eliminated the mobo as a factor. Safe to say that's not the source, though apparently my older one was more susceptible than this one, seeing that the noise changed pretty noticably. And oh WOW, scratch that it's gotten worse. Loud, pulsing humming.

Here's a fun change... ...the modi 2 now does it when I hook it up via usb, too, though its quieter than the 2i2. Doesn't matter if I have it actively set to usb. It's still there when I set it to optical. Just having the usb connected is enough.

At this point I am so lost and defeated I don't even wanna think about it anymore. I'm not touching it today, nor tomorrow or the next day. I'm working for the next several days and I'm not going to think about it. I've got a million other things to worry about. I've never troubleshooted something so simple for so long. It's really stressing me out so for my health I'm going to take my time. I've given up on designating some time period in my head when this shit is going to work...

I'll make a day out of this on Thursday. I'm all for ideas, here. If anybody has any ideas that require me to get things, let me know what you're thinking now so I can try to get them by then. I'll probably run through everything that I can, again, too. Maybe I've missed something. It's gonna be a long, long afternoon...

 

[Solaris17]

It must be a combination of things, but seriously at this point id throw in the towel drop the $$ and get one that is powered via outlet.

 

[robot zombie]

It must be a combination of things, but seriously at this point id throw in the towel drop the $$ and get one that is powered via outlet.

Yeah. That would be nice. But I'm not even convinced that'll solve the problem, now. My Modi 2 takes power from a wall wart and is now giving me the same noise when I hook it up via USB. Basically anything audio hooked up via USB = noise. Even data-only.

What I'd really like is one that does everything over SPDIF. But I think then I'd need a separate SPDIF input and output. I'd have to get a card with both to handle the interface. Mobo only has a single SPDIF output. Which works great for the Modi 2. Honestly I don't even know if its doable.

I feel like I kinda have no choice but to try and solve it. It's now looking like I can't even count on self-powered devices to solve it. Leaves me pretty much screwed no matter what I buy, seeing as how alternatives to USB are nil in the recording interface world. The only thing I can think might work to get around it is to track down a self-powered interface that uses anything but USB for data, and getting a PCIe card to hook it up to.

Honestly, I'm thinking about taking my setup to someone else's house to see if it works there. I dunno there has to be SOMETHING going on with this rig that I've missed. Like I said, I've got a bottom-budget A8-9600, $50 mobo, $20 PSU, $30 case build here that has no issues. If that can work, so should this. Thinking about adding another PSU into the mix... ...the one in this build is nothing special. It's just a 550w EVGA Supernova G3.

EDIT: I couldn't leave it be. I took this rig and one of my speakers out to the living room, where the other computer is. And guess what? Noise is finally gone! SO I say okay... and I try plugging everything into a different outlet in the room it goes in. Again, NO NOISE. I'm recording and playing back audio and it's crystal clear. Go back to the original outlet and the noise is back. So it's not the circuit, just that outlet.

I can only conclude two things here. Number one, the original mobo was actually bad, as previously it didn't matter which outlet I plugged the machine into, the noise would be there. Believe me, I tried just about every outlet in the house, and even tried running the speakers on different circuits as I did so I literally had the two computers side-by-side in the living room, sharing an outlet, and there was still noise on this machine and not that one. Now, they're both quiet.

Number two, cheap outlet. Probably one of those $2 econo decora ones. At this point it is at least 10 years old. For now, I will drop a basic new one in to get me going and then look at maybe getting one of those hospital grade ones later. Looks like this is going to be the final solution. Thank sweet baby jesus.

Fun side-story... ...Asus wants to try and fix the b350. Think I'll send it in and see how it goes. If it works after I get it back, then we'll know if I'm full of shit about USB or not. I don't know what I know at this point but it would be interesting to see if the noise would still be there after I change the outlet and have the board sent out. I'll slap together a breadboard build with it after I get the new outlet wired in. If the noise is still there, I'll send it out and see if its even fixable. Chances are I will receive a different, refurbished board. I assume so anyway. It would be interesting to try another Strix B350.

Thanks to all who contributed and followed along. It's been quite an adventure! Christ man, the things I go through just to be able to plug a guitar into a computer!

Reminds me of an old troubleshooting parable. "When you've already tried everything that should work, look to the things that shouldn't work."

 

[Beastie]

Well done, persistence paid off .

Have a look behind the problematic outlet to see if there are any loose or burnt connections or bare wires, and that the polarity is right.

 

[nomdeplume]

You sound like you could use some relief after all this. I'd look for a Hubbell or Pass & Seymour commercial or hospital quality outlet. Make sure you really secure it good inside the wall. Otherwise you are likely to rip it out the first time try removing a plug.

 

[robot zombie]

Well, I think it's all over now. The bad outlet is gone and so is the noise.

Well... ...mostly. After breadboarding my old B350 with known-good parts, that thing is still noisy on the new outlet. And others! Kind of a relief, honestly. I was beginning to feel like some kind of idiot. Now, to see if the B350 that Asus sends me in place of this one has the same problem... ...I'm really curious to see if this is a bad board or a design flaw.

Well done, persistence paid off .

Have a look behind the problematic outlet to see if there are any loose or burnt connections or bare wires, and that the polarity is right.

Yep, looks all good. It was wired correctly. I'm assuming ground isolation on the old one wasn't so good. Who knows what happened there. Just age. Wiring shows no sign of stress or arcing... ...insulation is still soft and copper still shiny and not work-hardened. It was an easy swap out compared to others I've done.

You sound like you could use some relief after all this. I'd look for a Hubbell or Pass & Seymour commercial or hospital quality outlet. Make sure you really secure it good inside the wall. Otherwise you are likely to rip it out the first time try removing a plug.

Oh man, you have no idea. So happy to have it all behind me. I have, in a single day, successfully troubleshooted infinitely more complex problems. And yet this simple one had me by the balls for countless weeks. It's always the stuff you think will be simple that winds up throwing you off. I mean, at the end of the day it was fairly simple and just basic logic and repitition would have solved it much faster - all I had to do was try the mobo in my budget build on the bad outlet and I would've known this a couple of weeks ago! Never think you've verified something you've only observed once, I suppose. Always verify what you verify. That's what I get for not taking my time. I thought it would be over so quickly... ...over and over again <_<

Thanks for the tips. I'll definitely look into those. I can tell you the box it'll go in is super stable... ...but it's still just plastic so I'm wary of screws pulling out. At the end of the day I'm comfortable ripping out some drywall and stud-mounting a better box. I'm experienced in doing that to run new circuits. I have access to everything, too. At that point I could run a dedicated line for sensitive stuff. But I'd rather not if I don't have to, you know?


This brought to my attention some other issues with this place. Looking at the panel, some rooms have dedicated lighting circuits while others don't. And there's really no logic to it. They're scattered across the place randomly. Some rooms have more fixtures, but lighting is tied to the mains, while others with less possible draw overall have lighting. Plenty of spare slots in the box, and amperage headroom enough to spare for heavier circuits. Bizarre.

The big thing that blew my mind... and I'm surprised it hasn't caused problems. The room I'm in shares a circuit with another small bedroom behind it. Single 15-amp breaker. Both have single fan/light fixtures and 5 outlets. Seems like not a lot of headroom. What if I wanted to put in window units? They're small rooms but even two 5000BTU units would pretty much cap both rooms out. And even more puzzlingly, beyond the other room is the porch, where there's a GFCI also tied to the same circuit these rooms are on! Trip that thing and everything in these rooms goes. Kinda blew my mind. Clearly wired in a hurry. Convenience over headroom.

 

[nomdeplume]

Now you're thinking with a clear head. Actually sounds like you got off light with bad electrical choices made by contractors and/or previous owners. Seems like you have fairly modern wiring and components. From experience, things that don't make sense normally make too clear of it once you dig in though. When you decide to play elec-chicken put on your thinking cap a moment before spending money or fruitless effort in the wrong direction.

It is amazing how much more comfortable removing these small unnoticed stresses makes just being at home feel. Even just knowing the cause behind lights and appliances not working as well as they should is mentally calming. I can promise you music is drastically more enjoyable even without the building threat of audible distractions. Glad you were able to get all of this sorted out in one go. Just how much it was wearing on you was pretty obvious.

 

[robot zombie]

Now you're thinking with a clear head. Actually sounds like you got off light with bad electrical choices made by contractors and/or previous owners. Seems like you have fairly modern wiring and components. From experience, things that don't make sense normally make too clear of it once you dig in though. When you decide to play elec-chicken put on your thinking cap a moment before spending money or fruitless effort in the wrong direction.

Too true. I really should've suspected. This place is not much over a decade old, but yeah, looking around I can see where shortcuts were taken everywhere. I'm sure when it was new it looked like one of those realtor "model" homes. But really that's all it is. And yes, I do agree that I've gotten off easy. Just a lot of stuff that's ehh... ...it's borderline. I could write a few pages on that, heh. I'll be diving into some of that soon.

And haha, I'm a certified sparky. I come from a family of electricians, carpenters, maintenance guys, etc so it's kind of in my blood to get down and work on stuff from that angle. I've done more serious electrical work for myself and family than I'll ever admit to in a court of law. Seriously though... I do get my permits, do everything by the books, and can access real professional consultation to get things done well. If all I have to do is change an outlet that's nothing to me lol. Such an easy fix.

It is amazing how much more comfortable removing these small unnoticed stresses makes just being at home feel. Even just knowing the cause behind lights and appliances not working as well as they should is mentally calming.

I feel that, man. I haven't been here for very long so I haven't gotten to much yet, but I learned from my first place the virtue of really inspecting everything and sort of picking away at solutions. My first place of my own was a $3000 trailer built in the late 70's. Oh my god the things I was constantly discovering in that trailer. By the time I sold it, I had completely overhauled it... ...I mean the only thing I didn't do was re-frame it and re-roof it. But I think what really made the difference for me were all of the little things I bothered to do right where somebody else just let it go and did bear-minimum crap. All stuff you could easily ignore, you know? And after a while it stars dwindling and that feels really good. It really does make it feel like a home, even if nobody else knows or cares - its your home. It makes you want to be there, like there's a piece of you in it. Not all that different from working on a custom PC build, when you think about it.

Like to have that mindset and the abilities that grow with it, I find, is something that benefits me in all areas of my life. Being able to fix stuff around the house is nothing special. People act like that's just for some people, but not them. I feel like everybody should get a little bit of home repair under their belts. It's beneficial, no matter who you are. As you said, it's satisfaction and peace of mind to add one more thing taken care of right to the list. Not to mention, it's the only way a lot of things get fixed!

I can promise you music is drastically more enjoyable even without the building threat of audible distractions. Glad you were able to get all of this sorted out in one go. Just how much it was wearing on you was pretty obvious.

Oh man, that is such a huge understatement I can't even. To put it into perspective, I have been playing guitar for 15 years now. It's been my favorite thing in the world since I started at age 13, and maybe the only thing to stay the same about me for so long. For these past few years I've been kind of burnt out on recording and writing music... ...I completely overdid it, no balance. Kept playing but never did anything with it. This year I started getting the itch and now it's really the only thing that I want to do. Reckon that's a sign that its time to get to work again. Probably never learn my lesson. My goal is to fully transition into doing that seriously by the end of the year. So yeah, running into crap like this is frankly pretty frustrating and even devastating at times. It definitely wore me down.
It just sucks when all you can do is think about what you really wanna wake up and be doing. All part of the journey though. Just makes it that much more worth it.

 

[qozzie]

@robot zombie hey mate, I just happened to come across your thread while researching the 'advantages' of linear power supplies with entry level DACs as I was debating a this upgrade instead of splashing out on a 'proper' DAC... seems like I'll have to upgrade my Novation DAC.

It just might be that I have something you can try regarding your USB noise problem.

I've spent a L O T of time researching the issue(s) and doing listening tests of different system setups and spending a L O T of money on line isolators, upgraded cables, shielded cables, power conditioners, noise filters on power sockets etcetera. I'm going to be a little verbose about it in case one of the tiny details could help you.

I personally cannot recommend using ferrite magnets to reduce noise on any audio gear unless the RF/EMI noise is so bad that eliminating it is more important than sound quality. I did listening tests with these on multiple devices (DAC, amplifier, power cord) and found that they actually reduced the quality of sound in my setup, and in some bizarre cases, added another weird layer of noise that made things worse.

I found that this tiny device: https://ifi-audio.com/products/idefender3-0/ was just as good at killing my USB ground loop noise issue from my iMac 2010 as my more expensive and cumbersome isolator https://www.juno.co.uk/products/palmer-pro-pli03-dual-channel-line-isolation/647607-01/ -the isolator needed another set of RCA cables, the iDefender doesn't. Both are great products but I wish I had discovered the iDefender earlier.

The iDefender can also bypass the pre-existing USB power source, either with any normal 5v micro power supply or iFi's own 'low-noise' version which gets good reviews on the web https://ifi-audio.com/products/ipower/. *please note: apparently using a battery source is very noisy, and only mains power is suitable. I haven't tried using separate power on the iDefender because I found the culprit for my noise issues (below).

I ended up discovering after lots of A/B listening with the myriad of combinations possible with my now ridiculously complicated setup, that the main 'cause' of noise in my system was my Allen & Heath mixer. This did at least allow me to remove all the now unnecessary line isolators from my system.

It was somehow picking up noise/acting as an antenna to RF/EMI noise, despite being attached to the power conditioner and/or electrically isolated from the devices in my system as much as possible. Bypassing the mixer solved all my noise issues and surprisingly none of my other gear was picking up or causing (except for the iMac) any RF/EMI noise (as far as I could tell).

It may be that your mobo is doing the same thing as my mixer. It may be the your mobo simply has a faulty ground/chip somewhere.

So yeah maybe:
try out the iDefender,
if that doesn't work then try it with a 5v power supply,
and if that doesn't work, try the iSilencer https://ifi-audio.com/products/isilencer3-0/.
Might be easier than a new mobo but of course, its your call.
Hope this proves helpful in some way,
Quoc outta Berlin, Germany

My system:
- iMac 2010 on High Sierra
- iDefender connected via an Audioquest Tower USB cable to an iPurifier
- Novation Audiohub 2x4 DAC (this has Focusrite internals) connected via Focal RCA cables to an Allen Heath Xone 43 mixer
- XLR outputs from the mixer to XLR inputs on the KRK subwoofer
- XLR outputs from the subwoofer to Focal active studio monitors
- all connected to a Furmam power conditioner AND an Ehmann RF/EMI power noise filter

Other notes:
- using mains 5v power on my DAC didn't have any effect on noise (it is possible that my DAC doesn't isolate USB power even with the power brick plugged in, unlike the iDefender)
- while the iPurifier didn't reduce any of the USB noise, it did have a surprising effect on the clarity and definition of the sound in my system
- using triple shielded cables from Focal instead of the Audioquest Tower cables I already had had no effect on noise but I'm a Focal fanboy so I kept them
- using a power conditioner from Furman and trying every connection configuration of connecting the devices in my system didn't reduce any of the noise in my system. It did however improve the bass (cleaner, more defined/sustained) of my KRK subwoofer which was a nice surprise
- using another line isolator on the XLR outputs (both from the mixer, and between the sub and monitors) had no effect
- using a power socket noise filter had no effect in my system, but I'm still glad I have it (for no logical reason at all)

 

[Fiorda]

Hi there, sorry for writing in a pretty old thread but I just came across the same issue and I though I could contribute. Looking at the description and all the facts and tests it looks really similar, except I use a Line 6 pod 2 box which also has got no external power.
Anyway it worked fine for years here and I started to have noise issues as I had to swap the laptop. Old one had a Corei5 and the new one is a Core i3. By digging into the resource monitor and events I found out the noise was more present when there was an increase or a spike in the CPU activity.
I could fix it by increasing the buffer size for USB streaming, this lowers the CPU activity even though it increases the latency. he Line6 equipment has this setting and I bet most of these cheap boxes also have this.
Still checking but I had this noise either in Cubase or using an mp3 player, now it seems to have disappear.
Sorry for any repetition if you discuss it already, some posts are quite long ones, but that worked for me and wanted to share. Good luck!

 

[robot zombie]

Hi there, sorry for writing in a pretty old thread but I just came across the same issue and I though I could contribute. Looking at the description and all the facts and tests it looks really similar, except I use a Line 6 pod 2 box which also has got no external power.
Anyway it worked fine for years here and I started to have noise issues as I had to swap the laptop. Old one had a Corei5 and the new one is a Core i3. By digging into the resource monitor and events I found out the noise was more present when there was an increase or a spike in the CPU activity.
I could fix it by increasing the buffer size for USB streaming, this lowers the CPU activity even though it increases the latency. he Line6 equipment has this setting and I bet most of these cheap boxes also have this.
Still checking but I had this noise either in Cubase or using an mp3 player, now it seems to have disappear.
Sorry for any repetition if you discuss it already, some posts are quite long ones, but that worked for me and wanted to share. Good luck!

Its cool, maybe some poor soul will happen upon it and it'll help them.

My issue was actually a multitude of things. It took... alot lol. The nature of the noise was persistent as well, as in as soon as I powered on. Additionally, recorded input was squeaky clean. Only output to the speakers came out dirty.

I caught the buffer size trick too, but for dual tracking intricate guitar work the latency was too much. It did bring the noise low enough for adequate monitoring though.

Interesting you mention CPU usage though. I believe VRMs were somehow involved in my case, as undervolting my CPU helped to a degree. Additionally if I took a piece of pipe to my ear and listened around I could actually hear similar noises coming straight from the main VRM heatsink. Maybe inductor whine? I'm not sure. Ultimately I swapped the mobo and the noise was reduced.

Next issue was an evga PSU. That thing whined and clicked subtly enough that i didnt catch it until I removed it from the case, and it carried through to the speakers. To make things worse, I would go on to try two different, brand new Seasonic Focus Golds that would SCREAM the entire time the power was on. The noise coming directly from those was louder than the noise in the speakers! Crazy, right? Seasonic, man!

Okay, so I finally settle on a nice quiet Corsair RMx. Noise is all but gone. The last of it went when I swapped an RX 580 for my evga GTX 1050.

Along the way I also discovered my outlet was bad. Things got better after changing it. I still have another to change.

Basically just being attacked on all sides man. Everything contributed. I wouldnt believe it if I hadnt painstakingly troubleshooted it myself. Insane. I still have the affected components. Ive had the opportunity to do several commission builds this year and I can tell you for sure that if you throw any one of those components in with any other components, even out of a case, you will have noise on the output side of any USB audio peripheral.

It is hard for me to accept that anyone could be that unlucky, but its all Ive got now At the end of the day I still chalk it up to the shortcomings of USB audio. All USB boxes are bound to be suceptible.

 

[OneMoar]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GB4CQQ3/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
*only does usb 1.2 12MBit/s
works fine with my FiiO E10k make sure to use a good ext power brick if needed

keep in mind that 9600Khz x 24bit x 2ch = 57600 bytes/s so usb 1.2 is plenty you would need to play roughly 40 tracks at once to saturate the buss

 

[Mittenz]

OP whats your motherboard?

 

[robot zombie]

OP whats your motherboard?

The one with the worst problems was a Strix B-350-F. Now I've got the X370 version and that eliminated the mobo as an "intensifier" of the noise. But it's worth mentioning that in my case there were many factors. There was also a bad outlet, PSU, GPU... An Evga GTX 1050, couple of different Evga PSU's. Many, many different things. Changing any of them would change the character of the noise. Replacing pretty much all of them made the noise go away. If I wanted to swap any of those parts in today, the noise would probably come back. And the funny thing is, the components I have in this build are not dead quiet either. My Strix 2060 has slight, but noticeable coil whine when running wide-open. The Corsair rm650x PSU I have in now also has a slight, but steady sort of clicky whine to it. Can't really hear it until you put your ear up, but it's there. And yet I now have zero noise problems with any audio device, USB or otherwise.

It's just one of those things... ...a freak occurrence and a troubleshooter's nightmare. I probably couldn't reproduce it if I tried, save for with one of those components.

 

[Mittenz]

Thank you! I was going to guess B350 or B450, Literally Asus has EMI and MAJOR audio issues with their new motherboards.
Never go Asus today if you care about audio, company lost quality control in their engineering.

Literally, X470 versions (Some not all), alot of b350 and b450 tons of customer complaints about this even on amazon but personally ive tested this myself.
When they shrunk alot of boards down (lost a few inches to the right) they exceeded EMI specifications on the silicon and it bleeds across pathways and gets in resonance is what were hearing.

Asus is a POS company, they dont take responsibility for their engineering flaws.
Im happy you got it fixed like I did, drove me nuts! Did you hear your mouse move when you had headphones on?

The one thing i noticed helped slightly was checking to make sure good motherboard screws were used as their grounded through these. Alot of people use whatever screws thread but doesnt ground to spec sometimes.

 

[kalmatar]

I have ASUS prime X470-Pro and Focusrite Scarlett 2i4.
I had clicks coming from speakers, which were connected with balanced cables.
I put a powered USB hub between PC and Focusrite, this ended the hissing and USB derived crackling for me.

 

[Mittenz]

Asus is a brand to avoid on AM4 motherboards. Sad to see more users suffering with this, and even Asus most high end boards have EMI interference from bad board design. Buying all those extras only show one thing, if you use analog audio out, you'll hear it... and if you use a ground loop isolator for audio 3.5mm lines it destroys the sound quality.

So for anyone building a system, keep in mind Asus has engineering flaws that a simple RMA cant fix.