What are the consequences of genetically altering ticks, fleas, and mosquitoes to control their populations?

[the54thvoid]

You couldn't possibly be more wrong. In Europe in the Middle Ages, one of the leading causes of death was by bear, wolf, boar or other wild animal attack. And less than 100 years ago, Indian tigers were still killing and eating a thousand people a year -- often small children, snatched directly from their homes. Even smaller animals such as foxes, stoats, weasels, civets, deer -- could indirectly cause death through malnourishment and even starvation through herd predation and crop destruction. Insect infestations were once so feared for their ability to destroy crops that they were considered deadly plagues from God himself.

The entire reason you have plenty of food and free time today to sling a backpack and safely roam through the "nurturing trails of nature" today is because of how much of the original wildlife we've killed.

Bolded part is patently untrue. In a science forum we use evidence and that, unfortunately, comes from what evidence is recorded. In that scenario, wild animals are so far down the list it's insignificant.

Plague, childbirth, disease, famine, etc, etc are the historically recorded issues--and they're well known--they still kill plenty of people today in third world countries. Hunting did kill people but it's considered the dangers of hunting itself (falling from horse, self-inflcited wounds) were as bad as being mauled by a stag.

However, yes, bugs kill many, many people (through the disease they spread).

Just two sources I could quickly find.

Plague, Famine & Sudden Death: 10 Dramatic Dangers Of The Medieval Period | HistoryExtra

It was one of the most transformative eras in history, but the Middle Ages were also fraught with danger. Here, historian Dr. Katharine Olson reveals ten of the period's biggest risks.

www.historyextra.com

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1879981721000590

Infant and child death due to varied causes had the greatest impact upon population and health, followed by a range of chronic/infectious diseases, with tuberculosis probably being the next most significant one.
Among medieval health problems, we estimate that plague was probably 7th–10th in overall importance. Although lethal and disruptive, it struck only periodically and had less cumulative long-term human consequences than chronically endemic conditions (e.g. bacterial and viral infections causing infant and child death, tuberculosis, and other pathogens).

 

[Aquinus]

My personal take is that ethical considerations aside, disrupting the bottom of the food chain seems like a bad idea. Those effects ripple through the ecosystem in ways that aren't always easy to understand or predict. To me, that seems like a recipe for a catastrophe.

 

[80251]

Ticks, fleas and mosquitoes are clearly an important species

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Bolded part is patently untrue. In a science forum we use evidence and that, unfortunately, comes from what evidence is recorded. In that scenario, wild animals are so far down the list it's insignificant.

Plague, childbirth, disease, famine, etc, etc are the historically recorded issues--and they're well known--they still kill plenty of people today in third world countries. Hunting did kill people but it's considered the dangers of hunting itself (falling from horse, self-inflcited wounds) were as bad as being mauled by a stag.

However, yes, bugs kill many, many people (through the disease they spread).

Just two sources I could quickly find.

Plague, Famine & Sudden Death: 10 Dramatic Dangers Of The Medieval Period | HistoryExtra

It was one of the most transformative eras in history, but the Middle Ages were also fraught with danger. Here, historian Dr. Katharine Olson reveals ten of the period's biggest risks.

www.historyextra.com

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1879981721000590

Personally I'm fully aware of the death toll by insects.
I don't doubt that part at all.
I am not sure what happens if.

A. No one is killed by bite infection where does that place us in population growth terms.

B. Are they sure that killing off tics will not damage ecosystems we also need.

A won't be considered because , money.

B. Better be proven IMHO.

 

[Space Lynx]

The black death may not have been caused by rats, but by us.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-42690577.amp

even if this is true, it doesn't change the point of this thread, because that article you linked still states "human fleas and lice were the cause", so whether or not your article is true does not change the question of this thread in the slightest, I appreciate the article though, extra input is always welcome.

My personal take is that ethical considerations aside, disrupting the bottom of the food chain seems like a bad idea. Those effects ripple through the ecosystem in ways that aren't always easy to understand or predict. To me, that seems like a recipe for a catastrophe.

I understand what you are saying, but what is your evidence that they are indeed a big part of the food chain? Also, it doesn't account for their populations being out of control, somethings like the deer, we have to thin the herd, the logic is no different here, there never used to be this many ticks or mosquitoes, and fleas, what eats them and what percentage of the diet do they make of the thing that eats? Generic statements like yours do not help me try to find an answer to my ultimate question and the reason I made this thread.

And what of Hawaii who never had mosquitoes for most of its history and got along just fine for thousands of years?

 

[R-T-B]

My personal take is that ethical considerations aside, disrupting the bottom of the food chain seems like a bad idea. Those effects ripple through the ecosystem in ways that aren't always easy to understand or predict. To me, that seems like a recipe for a catastrophe.

The question is are they really the bottom of the foodchain? At least for ticks/fleas, I know of no natural predators.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

even if this is true, it doesn't change the point of this thread, because that article you linked still states "human fleas and lice were the cause", so whether or not your article is true does not change the question of this thread in the slightest, I appreciate the article though, extra input is always welcome.



I understand what you are saying, but what is your evidence that they are indeed a big part of the food chain? Also, it doesn't account for their populations being out of control, somethings like the deer, we have to thin the herd, the logic is no different here, there never used to be this many ticks or mosquitoes, and fleas, what eats them and what percentage of the diet do they make of the thing that eats? Generic statements like yours do not help me try to find an answer to my ultimate question and the reason I made this thread.

And what of Hawaii who never had mosquitoes for most of its history and got along just fine for thousands of years?

Likely to be mostly bird's I would imagine, they're getting rarer I heard.

 

[Tetras]

The question is are they really the bottom of the foodchain? At least for ticks/fleas, I know of no natural predators.

spiders and lizards'll eat them

 

[R-T-B]

spiders and lizards'll eat them

Once gorged with blood a lot of things will take an opurtunistic snack on a tick, but I'd need a source for anything seriously eating fleas or ungorged ticks.

 

[looniam]

Once gorged with blood a lot of things will take an opurtunistic snack on a tick, but I'd need a source for anything seriously eating fleas or ungorged ticks.

What Animals Eat Ticks? [Natural Predators] - Today's Homeowner

Ticks are blood-sucking, parasitic arachnids that feed on the blood of animals, including people. In the short term, ticks are a massive pain and can cause

buglord.com

Frogs and toads eat flies in cartoons, but they’re not very picky in real life. They’ll eat plenty of small insects, and also arachnids like spiders and ticks. With certain toads, engorged female ticks have even been used as bait to capture them!

Frogs aren’t very picky about their diet, but they are a bit picky about where they eat. Frogs are found in and around water, whereas toads tend to spend a bit more time on land. So frogs are a bit less likely to eat ticks unless they find them looking for hosts by on foliage close to water. Toads stand a better chance of running into a tick since they will go inland a bit.

sorry, i just couldn't help myself.

E: on a seriously note i do know chickens, who are a constant hunt, will eat any insect it sees.

 

[R-T-B]

What Animals Eat Ticks? [Natural Predators] - Today's Homeowner

Ticks are blood-sucking, parasitic arachnids that feed on the blood of animals, including people. In the short term, ticks are a massive pain and can cause

buglord.com

sorry, i just couldn't help myself.

E: on a seriously note i do know chickens, who are a constant hunt, will eat any insect it sees.

I mean yeah when gorged with the blood of the living who would be able to resist that delicious meat nugget? But that's not really what I was asking.

Repent.

 

[looniam]

I mean yeah when gorged with the blood of the living who would be able to resist that delicious meat nugget? But that's not really what I was asking.

Repent.

why i edited about chickens, they are on a never ending hunt for insects - a couple together is bad news for your cousin the toad.

squirrels and chipmunks are very surprising . . imagine, eating whats eating you . . . just saying.

 

[Space Lynx]

What Animals Eat Ticks? [Natural Predators] - Today's Homeowner

Ticks are blood-sucking, parasitic arachnids that feed on the blood of animals, including people. In the short term, ticks are a massive pain and can cause

buglord.com

sorry, i just couldn't help myself.

E: on a seriously note i do know chickens, who are a constant hunt, will eat any insect it sees.

on the note of chickens eating ticks, vast vast majority of chickens do not eat ticks, as we have a farm infrastructure for them now, and in fact we are our best to keep chickens from coming into contact with the wild for fear of diseases causing mass cullings and in turn mass profit margins as our society depends on the chicken not getting sick.

as for frogs, my guess is there diet would consist of flies/mosquitoes much more often than ticks, ticks are buried in the grass, frogs don't seem to hunt in those places usually. i don't buy it, even if it is true, its probably 5% or less of the frogs overall lifetime diet.

spiders and lizards'll eat them

again, I would need to know the percentage of the overall lifetime diet that makes up the spider and lizard in a general sense, loads of other bugs that they eat... my guess is spiders don't go hunting in grass... spiders make webs and catch other stuff 90% of the time I expect.

lizards I'm not certain of, but my guess is very low percentage of their diet.

 

[Tetras]

again, I would need to know the percentage of the overall lifetime diet that makes up the spider and lizard in a general sense, loads of other bugs that they eat... my guess is spiders don't go hunting in grass... spiders make webs and catch other stuff 90% of the time I expect.

lizards I'm not certain of, but my guess is very low percentage of their diet.

There's lots of different types of spiders (I've been to Australia ), some do hunt on the ground and on grass. Apparently some spiders find ticks very tasty. There's a section on predators of ticks in this article which is quite interesting, but nothing so specific about their diet as you asked.

The efficiency of predators in controlling tick populations in different habitats varies and may reach up to 100% (67,131,210,211). In Kenya, predation was lower in tall grass areas than in short grass areas (144). In Texas, predation was two to eight times higher in open areas than in a post-oak thicket pasture habitat (67). In Russia, up to 100% of the ticks were preyed on in a woody area, whereas about half were in small open areas and none in intensive pasture or agricultural areas (114)

Nine genera of spiders from six families were reported to prey on five hard tick and two soft tick genera (8,19, 38, 43,59,114,138, 144, 183,192,203,211). Teutana triangulosa spiders prefer Rhipicephalus sanguin-eusto flies. In a garden heavily infested with R. sanguineus, the webs contained only tick cadavers (183).

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Michael-Samish/publication/13298189_Pathogens_and_predators_of_ticks_and_their_potential_in_biological_control/links/548c3b780cf214269f1ddda5/Pathogens-and-predators-of-ticks-and-their-potential-in-biological-control.pdf

Not sure where to find precise information on their diet, I guess it would be an article about spiders, or lizards, rather than ticks.

 

[Bomby569]

By the way they live it would really hard if not impossible to eliminate ticks or fleas. Mosquitos in an area sure, it's been done, but no meaningfull to ensure you get to all of them. These are very small animals that don't live in clusters.

 

[Mr McC]

The question is are they really the bottom of the foodchain? At least for ticks/fleas, I know of no natural predators.

Lizards, snakes, frogs, toads, a wide variety of insects, such as ladybirds and fire ants, nematode worms and a number of spiders.

 

[Bomby569]

Lizards, snakes, frogs, toads, a wide variety of insects, such as ladybirds and fire ants, nematode worms and a number of spiders.

and birds, they love them

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

this...

By the way they live it would really hard if not impossible to eliminate ticks or fleas. Mosquitos in an area sure, it's been done, but no meaningfull to ensure you get to all of them. These are very small animals that don't live in clusters.

Most of these insects travel surprisingly little, even if they can fly. The current attempts at controlling mosquitoes would be an Area Denial System, even with 100% success rate.

 

[eidairaman1]

The question is are they really the bottom of the foodchain? At least for ticks/fleas, I know of no natural predators.

7 Natural Predators of Fleas - FleasControl.com

Controlling fleas in the home setting is not a walk in the park. These wingless jumpy creatures can easily hide in hard-to-reach cracks and crevices to avoid pesticides. When in the pupal stage, they can hibernate or become dormant for even one year until you … 7 Natural Predators of Fleas read...

www.fleascontrol.com

19 Animals that Eat Ticks: Natural Tick Predators

Getting rid of ticks is easier than you might think because there are many animals that eat ticks. Some of these animals are natural predators who rely on ticks for their survival, but there are

thebuginator.com

What Eats Mosquitoes - A Big List of Mosquito Predators

pestpush.com

Natural Enemies Of Mosquitoes – List Of Mosquito Predators | BugOfff.com

 

[ratirt]

I didn't mean to suggest you were, just that I didn't want to go that route.



While I agree, I am also aware that most of us would not be alive if we had not

• Fertilizers
• Insecticides
• Medicine
• Transportation

well there is a drawback obviously. I'm not saying we should move to a cave and live there but there is a lot we can do to make it better. The problem is global and it will stay global. Global warming correlates with industry but with poverty as well. Unfortunately we are not good mitigating the latter one either. Nobody cares about Earth when they struggle. Some are just ignorant and think this is the new generation's to come problem. I think people are not ready for anything to make it better. Especially when they being drive by fame, wealth, sick ambitions etc.
Some things will never change but when they do, it will be too late.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Well my answer to the question would be, wipe them out by genetic modification or whatever it takes. They are parasites and do they really serve any purpose even if they do have enemies or are eaten by other creatures. Parasites are just that and should be destroyed.
If you have ever had a infestation of animal fleas, you will surely understand.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

I think we should focus on disease eradication rather than species eradication. There's far fewer unintended consequences and we can control for them in our own species. Messing with other species, we're likely not going to know how bad it is until it is too late (e.g. decline of species that subsist on them that aren't well monitored). We're already in the middlle of the 6th mass extinction event; we shouldn't be trying to accelerate it.

Moreover, developing better treatments for diseases in humans serves as a building block to treat other diseases. We gain a lot from solving those problems where we likely get more harm than benefit from eradicating a species.


The best way for humans to reduce mosquito problems is to prohibit standing water where we reside. No standing water = no mosquitos.

Also fun fact: Mosquitos can only spread diseases they themselves can contract. Pretty wild that mammals share enough genetic code with mosquitos for mosquitos to impact mammals at all. Probably also why the viruses they spread are particularly bad: they tend to go after the really basic building blocks of life. Malaria is a mosquito-borne parasite, not a virus. Dengue is a mosquito-borne virus.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

The best way for humans to reduce mosquito problems is to prohibit standing water where we reside. No standing water = no mosquitos.

Try doing this is third world countries like pakistan and india though. They are not the best places imo don't want to offend anyone but from what i have seen on tv and the net they are not the best managed countries, and i dare say there are more. Trying to get these countries to do what it takes to eradicate these pests is not the easiest thing to do.

 

[Bomby569]

Try doing this is third world countries like pakistan and india though. They are not the best places imo don't want to offend anyone but from what i have seen on tv and the net they are not the best managed countries, and i dare say there are more. Trying to get these countries to do what it takes to eradicate these pests is not the easiest thing to do.

First there is the temperature problem, it's not like "rich countries" don't have this problem because they are richer.
Even in very well managed countries all it takes is a little pool of water, in a forgoten container after watering the lawn for example. A pool of water after the rain. Etc...
Living in urban aereas helps of course. And keeping the animals you eat in far away farms also helps. Not having fruit trees near you. Etc

Most of these are not about rich vs poor, good hygiene vs bad, it's the way people live.

NY was/is famous for the bed bugs problem for example.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

On that topic, saw this not that long ago and the title really says it all "design mosquitos out of cities"

The same philosophy works for all vermin. They all like specific things. Don't want them? Don't do those things.