What video card provides...

trickson · Sep 30, 2020

I know this is a strange question but I would really like to know what video card provides the best sound.
Since HDMI is the new normal for hooking up sound equipment (Home theater style. ) Why are sound cards still not HDMI or even have true Dolby atmos?
And since I use my computer for 99% of all my entertainment needs and since the Denon AVR is the main amp for sound.
Please no generic lame answers, I know that there is True Dolby Atmos and DTX and lots of other sound settings that creators us e for there media. There can NOT be a generic answer. Somewhere down the line the sound they moved from a simple sound card to on board sound to HDMI.
I want the one video card out that can pass through True Dolby Atmos sound there just HAS to be some thing I am missing.
PCM ( Pulse Code Modulation) IS NOT TRUE FING DOLBY ATMOS, It's NOT even close to any of that!
So there HAS to be some thing for this or am I missing something?

newtekie1 · Sep 30, 2020

They are all the same. All the nVidia cards use the nVidia sound card, all the AMD cards use the AMD sound card. Video card makers aren't building special sound equipment into video cards.

Nike_486DX · Sep 30, 2020

HDMI is digital. So is the audio part of it.
But digital is not as good as analog

ps
in an hdmi interface there are only a few pins dedicated for audio. So it is pointless to have a sound card with HDMI (unless it is a weird one that also sends some video and stuff).

FreedomEclipse · Sep 30, 2020

The signal is digital so it doesnt matter. What matters the most is your choice of AVR (audio processor) and speakers as those are the two components that will be processing and outputting sound.

Thats why AVRs and speakers costs can run into the thousands for an extremely good setup.

trickson · Sep 30, 2020

So wait hold on, The HDMI signal is both video and audio? And the AVR is the "decoder" so the video card has nothing to do with the sound, Yet the sound comes from the video HDMI port as a digital signal that passes through to my AVR and it takes that (Probably 2 Chanel signal ) and Produces the DTX and Atmos sound I hear? That is a lot of heavy lifting.
So that leaves no need at for any sound card or DAC unit because the HDMI signal is 4K so the sound sound be HD as well.
WOW how confusing. SO sound cards are a relic then.

And yeah even a digital signal has some degradation and the sound signal passes through the video card yet is not processed till it gets to the AVR.
would it not stand to reason that there is some kind of video sound passing through the card if so then there has to be some sorta time taken for this.
Like with 1080p it can not do 4k so you have to upgrade right?

So what is going on in the digital sound world and the video world?

FreedomEclipse said:
The signal is digital so it doesnt matter. What matters the most is your choice of AVR (audio processor) and speakers as those are the two components that will be processing and outputting sound.

Thats why AVRs and speakers costs can run into the thousands for an extremely good setup.

Yeah I am at $2,500.00 maybe a bit more. But I am extremely happy with this setup just looking to improve whatever I can I am getting really Anal and all OCD on this Audiophile system.

timta2 · Sep 30, 2020

trickson said:
So wait hold on, The HDMI signal is both video and audio? And the AVR is the "decoder" so the video card has nothing to do with the sound, Yet the sound comes from the video HDMI port as a digital signal that passes through to my AVR and it takes that (Probably 2 Chanel signal ) and Produces the DTX and Atmos sound I hear? That is a lot of heavy lifting.
So that leaves no need at for any sound card or DAC unit because the HDMI signal is 4K so the sound sound be HD as well.
WOW how confusing. SO sound cards are a relic then.
And yeah even a digital signal has some degradation and the sound signal passes through the video card yet is not processed till it gets to the AVR.
would it not stand to reason that there is some kind of video sound passing through the card if so then there has to be some sorta time taken for this.
Like with 1080p it can not do 4k so you have to upgrade right?

So what is going on in the digital sound world and the video world?

Yeah I am at $2,500.00 maybe a bit more. But I am extremely happy with this setup just looking to improve whatever I can I am getting really Anal and all OCD on this Audiophile system.

There's no degradation, as the data is sent again if there's a problem with it originally. There's no attenuation or degradation of the signal, like there is with analog signals.

That's right, there's no need for a sound card these days, unless you want to hook up some headphones or something without an HDMI input.

trickson · Sep 30, 2020

timta2 said:
There's no degradation, as the data is sent again if there's a problem with it originally. There's no attenuation or degredation of the signal, like there is with analog signals.

That's right, there's no need for a sound card these days, unless you want to hook up some headphones or something without an HDMI input.

But there is no signal processing on card so what or where is that digital signal coming from?

Endymio · Sep 30, 2020

trickson said:
The HDMI signal is both video and audio? And the AVR is the "decoder" so the video card has nothing to do with the sound, Yet the sound comes from the video HDMI port as a digital signal that passes through to my AVR and it takes that (Probably 2 Chanel signal ) and Produces the DTX and Atmos sound I hear? So that leaves no need at for any sound card or DAC unit because the HDMI signal is 4K so the sound sound be HD as well.

To be precise, HDMI devices are only required to support the baseline audio standard, which is pretty low (2-channel stereo, 16 bit 32khz PCM). The HDMI standard allows for much better audio resolution such as 8-channel DTS-HD, but individual HDMI devices may not support it. So, while in theory, digital signals roam the entire known multiverse unchanged and undegraded, but whenever they cross a boundary that requires format conversion, they may lose something in translation.

WOW how confusing. SO sound cards are a relic then.

Why the frowny face? Remember the old Buggles hit and sing to the tune: "HDMI killed the audio card...."

Candor · Sep 30, 2020

These pages have some useful info. Using Google-Fu

NVIDIA Support

nvidia.custhelp.com

The ultimate guide to Dolby Atmos: what it is and how to get the best possible sound

Dolby Atmos can be a great surround sound experience. But just because your gear bears an Atmos label, that doesn't mean you've got Atmos sound. Here's why.

www.digitaltrends.com

trickson · Sep 30, 2020

Endymio said:
Why the frowny face? Remember the old Buggles hit and sing to the tune: "HDMI killed the audio card...."

Yes LOL.

Candor said:
These pages have some useful info. Using Google-Fu

NVIDIA Support

nvidia.custhelp.com

The ultimate guide to Dolby Atmos: what it is and how to get the best possible sound

Dolby Atmos can be a great surround sound experience. But just because your gear bears an Atmos label, that doesn't mean you've got Atmos sound. Here's why.

www.digitaltrends.com

Yeah I found that first one too and well by the looks of it they do have a sound format so yeah I need a better video card if I want better sound digitally.
So the video card does have to have a sound interface or digital place for sound processing.
And this is just what I am talking about. There is NO way in hell that signal was coming in as DTX or DD or Atmos. If so my AVR system would tell me. All I get is PCM THAT IS FING NOT DD DTX DTXS OR ATMOS! I have played every fing Youtube BS Atmos 4k bullshit video and my system says ONE FING THING! PCM ! That gives me Multichannel Dolby surround Some other stuff that also makes no sense like virtual-x and some other crap. NOTHING at all says that signal is ATMOS or DTS or DDS at all! or my AVR would show it.
So there is that.

There is literally no way Youtube would be able to send a DDS or DTX or even Atmos signal through over the internet NO WAY IN HELL that signal is ever coming through, MY AVR would CHANGE automatically to that signal! I know it does it automatically! And as of yet not ONE fucking thing from the internet has come across full atmos NOT EVER!

AsRock · Sep 30, 2020

Yeah windows will show what your setup is capable of, take no notice of the Toshiba TV for some reason it displays that and not the AV some do and some don't like the Marantz i had showed the AV.

You set it up though the sound options like how many speakers you have and all that and if windows apply's it's own crap.

Jetster · Sep 30, 2020

Sound cards are antiquated technology and have been for years. Having a sound chips in a case is goin to introduce electronic interference. It only makes sense to move the digital signal to an external source. Optical is good but has limitation to the bandwidth.

As far as the digital vs analog. Well if you like analog then use all analog, clicks and pops can add something so music. But a true analog system has no PC at all. I have a guitar with a tube amp, my system cannot reproduce the sound I get from it. Not even close

Endymio · Sep 30, 2020

Jetster said:
Sound cards are antiquated technology and have been for years. Having a sound chips in a case is goin to introduce electronic interference.

Where do you think the chips are that provide HDMI support?

R-T-B · Sep 30, 2020

Endymio said:
Where do you think the chips are that provide HDMI support?

There's not enough interference in there to change a 0 to a 1 or the PC would not function.

EarthDog · Sep 30, 2020

trickson said:
Yes LOL.

Yeah I found that first one too and well by the looks of it they do have a sound format so yeah I need a better video card if I want better sound digitally.
So the video card does have to have a sound interface or digital place for sound processing.
And this is just what I am talking about. There is NO way in hell that signal was coming in as DTX or DD or Atmos. If so my AVR system would tell me. All I get is PCM THAT IS FING NOT DD DTX DTXS OR ATMOS! I have played every fing Youtube BS Atmos 4k bullshit video and my system says ONE FING THING! PCM ! That gives me Multichannel Dolby surround Some other stuff that also makes no sense like virtual-x and some other crap. NOTHING at all says that signal is ATMOS or DTS or DDS at all! or my AVR would show it.
So there is that.

There is literally no way Youtube would be able to send a DDS or DTX or even Atmos signal through over the internet NO WAY IN HELL that signal is ever coming through, MY AVR would CHANGE automatically to that signal! I know it does it automatically! And as of yet not ONE fucking thing from the internet has come across full atmos NOT EVER!

You realize you have a gtx1050 (according to system specs), and that pascal based gpu has everything you need, right...? Look at the chart again, bud.

AFAIK, YT only outputs stereo...makes sense you aren't seeing anything above that. Ask Google if YT supports atmos...read the responses.

Why not run spdif from PC to AVR? Wouldn't that pass any signals through and let the AVR decode w/e it is?

[HELP ME! ]Help getting 7.1 audio on Realtek ALC1220

Hello Guys I need help on getting 7.1 audio on Realtek ALC1220 my motherboard is a Gigabyte GA-AX370-Gaming K3 and I'm using SPDIF , I have a Home theater that's capable of outputting 7.1 Audio, And I've tried Alan Finotty driver mod but I've got no luck, I only get 5.1 audio and sometimes I...

www.techpowerup.com

Are you using the hdmi for video as well or just audio?

Jetster · Sep 30, 2020

Endymio said:
Where do you think the chips are that provide HDMI support?

HDMI has no analog processing on the card. The digital signal is not effected by electrical noise

There are some sound cards and motherboard that attempt to provide shielding against it, and work fairly well. Most of the high end sound cards come with shielding

Endymio · Sep 30, 2020

R-T-B said:
There's not enough interference in there to change a 0 to a 1 or the PC would not function.

That's a function of the signal being digital rather than analog, not because the audio processing is integrated into HDMI. The statement to which I replied claimed that a discrete sound card would always suffer from interference, which is incorrect.

Jetster · Sep 30, 2020

Endymio said:
The statement to which I replied claimed that a discrete sound card would always suffer from interference, which is incorrect.

Now your back tracking, not what I said. I said "Having a sound chips in a case is goin to introduce electronic interference" I also clarified later in the reply that some cards have shielding.
I get that some are still using sounds cards. I did for years and I have a few in the closet, maybe there not completely done but rather there are better options now.

FinneousPJ · Sep 30, 2020

Nike_486DX said:
HDMI is digital. So is the audio part of it.
But digital is not as good as analog

ps
in an hdmi interface there are only a few pins dedicated for audio. So it is pointless to have a sound card with HDMI (unless it is a weird one that also sends some video and stuff).

Digital is not as good? Then I hope you're not using computers anywhere in your audio system, because they only deal in digital. Vinyl and cassette tapes are great but they only go so far lol.

trickson · Sep 30, 2020

All I can say is this.
If the signal that is coming through my system to the AVR is True Dolby surround sound or Atmos or DTS My AVR would show that signal coming through as such. But there has yet to be one digital signal that comes from the internet that is true digital Dolby surround sound.
Yeah you can sure get that 4K and 8K look from the viewing platform but from the sound area it sucks ass.
Show me ONE of them BS videos on Youtube that is true Atmos or even true digital surround sound even.
There is only one way so far that I have seen the DTX and Dolby logos on my AVR and that is when I play a Blue-ray disk. So something some where is fucked and it aint on my END!

EarthDog · Sep 30, 2020

trickson said:
All I can say is this.
If the signal that is coming through my system to the AVR is True Dolby surround sound or Atmos or DTS My AVR would show that signal coming through as such. But there has yet to be one digital signal that comes from the internet that is true digital Dolby surround sound.
Yeah you can sure get that 4K and 8K look from the viewing platform but from the sound area it sucks ass.
Show me ONE of them BS videos on Youtube that is true Atmos or even true digital surround sound even.
There is only one way so far that I have seen the DTX and Dolby logos on my AVR and that is when I play a Blue-ray disk. So something some where is fucked and it aint on my END!

I just posted (and you thanked it)/told you that YT only presents in stereo...what's fucked on your end is understanding that you aren't getting more than stereo from YT in the first place.

There's this for streaming - https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-stream-dolby-atmos-from-netflix-itunes-vudu-and-amazon/#:~:text=If you want to get,of four Atmos streaming sources.

Google... fookn amazing!

trickson · Sep 30, 2020

EarthDog said:
I just posted (and you thanked it)/told you that YT only presents in stereo...what's fucked on your end is understanding that you aren't getting more than stereo from YT in the first place.

There's this for streaming - https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-stream-dolby-atmos-from-netflix-itunes-vudu-and-amazon/#:~:text=If you want to get,of four Atmos streaming sources.

Google... fookn amazing!

Okay so in order to get Dolby atmos or DTS you need a signal right? Then You need a source to decode it (the AVR) Now if there is NO streaming signal for my computer to pick up like DTS or Dolby the AVR can reproduces the Dolby surround but it is NOT the same.
Show me ONE youtube video that had TRUE Dolby! It is NEVER going to happen! They will NOT stream or can not stream it. Yeah they got all that video shit but boy are they lacking on the sound stuff.
But what I see is more crap that I need to hook up so I might get it streamed from the inter net. Like some Apple box? Oh man this is getting too messed up.

EarthDog · Sep 30, 2020

trickson said:
Okay so in order to get Dolby atmos or DTS you need a signal right? Then You need a source to decode it (the AVR) Now if there is NO streaming signal for my computer to pick up like DTS or Dolby the AVR can reproduces the Dolby surround but it is NOT the same.

Correct. You need a signal with Atmos/DTS encoding in it for your AVR to read. Since the YT signal is only stereo, you'd have to use one of the 'fake' modes as you're alluding to.

Show me ONE youtube video that had TRUE Dolby! It is NEVER going to happen! They will NOT stream or can not stream it. Yeah they got all that video shit but boy are they lacking on the sound stuff.

For the third time, you won't get anything but stereo from YouTube. Capeesh?

trickson · Sep 30, 2020

EarthDog said:
Correct. You need a signal with Atmos/DTS encoding in it for your AVR to read. Since the YT signal is only stereo, you'd have to use one of the 'fake' modes as you're alluding to.
For the third time, you won't get anything but stereo from YouTube. Capeesh?

Now that is exactly what I am saying.
So in Fact YouTube and the rest (Literally everything from the Internet) can NOT give a signal other than stereo. See now I am clear.
Since there is NO way that the Internet can stream anything other than stereo then I do not need a new video card or sound card ( WONT do shit) I need to get a bunch of new movies as my blue ray player is the only thing that can do this.
Well so much for using a computer as a movie theater. Guess I am back to the blueray player. well that will free up 2TB's of space.
So there are also NO games that can or even that use any surround sound since well you can NOT stream any audio other than 2 Chanel?
YouTube and others need to stop there false advertising. They suck!
So a computer has everything but HDMI true audio. This is what I am hearing.
It's all 2 channel stereo that is some how taken and broken up into diffident "areas" to give the allusion of surround. I can tell from the real and the fake this is what I am saying. It does NOT sound real and that is what I am looking for.

I am an Audiophile chasing that dragon!

EarthDog · Sep 30, 2020

trickson said:
See now I am clear.

Awesome! Third time was a charm, I guess!

Again, I believe if you use the SPDIF output on your PC and send that to the AVR, if anything has the right coding your receiver should then show it's working in whatever mode.

trickson said:
Well so much for using a computer as a movie theater. Guess I am back to the blueray player. well that will free up 2TB's of space.
So there are also NO games that can or even that use any surround sound since well you can NOT stream any audio other than 2 Chanel?

Why not get a BR player for the PC and use SPDIF?

If games are encoded with surround and you are using SPDIF to the AVR, it should decode surround.

trickson said:
It's all 2 channel stereo that is some how taken and broken up into diffident "areas" to give the allusion of surround.

illusion.

Yes, your AVR takes the 2ch signal and can make fake surround modes out of it, correct.

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What video card provides...

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