Which monitor is better?

[qubit]

Actual 120Hz has nothing to do with it, and you won't find strobing AND 120Hz in that price range. I was referring to a 60Hz Samsung TV that uses strobing to minimize motion blur, nothing more.

You can have strobing in either 60 or 120Hz displays, it's synced to the refresh rate. I believe what you may be referring to is Nvidia's requirement for 3D Vision capable displays that strobe, because the stereoscopics require 60Hz per side to get smooth results.

Quite frankly 120Hz can add as many problems as it solves, depending on who's doing the buying, since you need pretty hefty GPU power to even stay at that frame rate in lots of games.

I wonder if those new Benq monitors with strobing support do so on a 60Hz refresh? The flicker would look the same as a CRT in that instance.

I've not had any problems from the 120Hz strobe on my Asus monitor. Even if the GPU can't maintain 120fps, it still looks way better than not having it. What problems are you thinking of?

 

[Jimmy6]

I`d go with benq, but i own http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C18YTCO/?tag=tec06d-20 and i am happy with it.

 

[Aithos]

Please don't get a Dell E-IPS for gaming. At the sub-$200 dollar range you cannot get a decent IPS and *none* of the IPS panels in that range have reasonable amounts of input/processing lag. I don't care how many people say it's fine, it's not fine. Most of those monitors have at least 30ms of delay and that is horrendous for anything multiplayer.

If you absolutely cannot go over $200 I would get the BenQ, otherwise I would strongly suggest saving another $80 and getting the Asus VG248QE or a BenQ XL2420TE. Both of those are lightboost and will be the best gaming monitors for the money that you can buy. They have similar picture quality as the E-IPS panel and at 24" with a single monitor the viewing angle thing is completely meaningless. You also won't get the IPS sparkle (which is really annoying, I have to use an E-IPS Dell at work and its AWFUL).

The fact of the matter is that without calibration nothing in the $200 range is going to look "amazing" and even after calibration it still isn't going to look "amazing". The entire IPS vs TN debate in gaming comes down to two things:

1) Do you play only single player games or do you play multiplayer?
2) Do you have the money to afford a "real" IPS panel (e-IPS doesn't count)

If the answer to #1 is that you play only single player AND the answer to #2 is yes, then an IPS *can* be ok for gaming. The catch is that it needs to be a 1440p or higher resolution monitor with a 8-bit panel for it to offset the input/processing lag issue. If you play multiplayer online games OR you're budget contstrained (you are) then a TN panel will give you the best performance because you won't have the additional lag.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

I wonder if those new Benq monitors with strobing support do so on a 60Hz refresh? The flicker would look the same as a CRT in that instance.

You must realize that flicker on CRTs is not at all the same as flicker on LCDs, which is rare and not in fact caused by strobing, it's caused by poorly calibrated voltages.

The only possible exception I know of was BenQ's experiment with insertion of blank (black screen) frames every other frame to try and deal with the blur, vs strobing, but even there, most just said it looked darker.

It's easy to use strobing on LCDs with no ill effect because liquid crystals have an inherent after glow, and is the primary reason FOR the strobing. LCs actually have TOO MUCH afterglow.

You can read Wiki's article on screen flicker and it explains that even CRTs with a specially made long afterglow phosphor do not have problems with flicker.

"For example, if a cathode ray tube's vertical refresh rate is set to 60 Hz, most screens will produce a visible "flickering" effect, unless they use phosphor with long afterglow."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker_(screen))

 

[qubit]

You must realize that flicker on CRTs is not at all the same as flicker on LCDs, which is rare and not in fact caused by strobing, it's caused by poorly calibrated voltages.

The only possible exception I know of was BenQ's experiment with insertion of blank (black screen) frames every other frame to try and deal with the blur, vs strobing, but even there, most just said it looked darker.

It's easy to use strobing on LCDs with no ill effect because liquid crystals have an inherent after glow, and is the primary reason FOR the strobing. LCs actually have TOO MUCH afterglow.

You can read Wiki's article on screen flicker and it explains that even CRTs with a specially made long afterglow phosphor do not have problems with flicker.

"For example, if a cathode ray tube's vertical refresh rate is set to 60 Hz, most screens will produce a visible "flickering" effect, unless they use phosphor with long afterglow."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker_(screen)

Thanks, I've read this interesting article, but it doesn't actually say that LCD pixels have persistence. The important metric for these is the millisecond response time quoted with every LCD monitor, as all they do is block light to varying degrees depending on the applied voltage, which is reversed continuously to stop them degrading.

Also, LightBoost is only supported at 100, 110 and 120Hz, not 60Hz, which I suspect is due to visible flicker. However, I think it should be up to the user to decide if they want to use it at 60Hz or not. Note that I can see 60Hz flicker when using my 3D Vision glasses and can even tell that the shutters are alternating. It's not extremely pronounced however, being more so with bright scenes.

btw, I think you meant to post this link which has your quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker_(screen)

 

[Esparza89]

THX for the opinions but now I have another doubt. All those IPS monitors have big response times, it doesnt matter anymore?, before, all I knew was that I needed at least 2ms to play games without bluring, but now you all come with a lot of considerations, can you guys elaborate a little more or give me a list of what to look for? and more options of monitors are welcome too.

One more thing, do I really need 120Hz? I don't think my rig will use them to its full potential, maybe in DotA 2, but in other games with more graphics demand I think I will never reach those FPS.

 

[qubit]

THX for the opinions but now I have another doubt. All those IPS monitors have big response times, it doesnt matter anymore?, before, all I knew was that I needed at least 2ms to play games without bluring, but now you all come with a lot of considerations, can you guys elaborate a little more or give me a list of what to look for? and more options of monitors are welcome too.

One more thing, do I really need 120Hz? I don't think my rig will use them to its full potential, maybe in DotA 2, but in other games with more graphics demand I think I will never reach those FPS.

Did you see my advice in post 10? It tells you all you need to know. Click here.

 

[Esparza89]

ya I did, some days ago so I forgot about it, but I still have the doubt, FPS are not related to the Hz? I don't think my rig will run Battlefield 3 or 4 at more than 80FPS, so do I really need the 120Hz? I don't play First person shooters or action games in multiplayer, only dota 2, and that's why Im asking if its necessary.

 

[qubit]

You forgot? You're human!

Indeed, your PC may not be able to make the fps match the monitor refresh, but you still get a massive benefit since motion blur is gone. Also, the judder at 80Hz plus doesn't look so annoying either, as it tends to look more like a double edge than a judder.

LightBoost / strobed backlight will improve all your games, because it removes an artifact that's very detrimental to picture quality and one's perception of fast moving objects, motion blur.

These monitors are especially good for racing games, that require fast twitchy timing like fps games and low lag.

I get that spending a lot of money on a forum recommendation would make you hesitate, so I recommend buying it from Amazon like you initially planned, where you can return it to them risk-free within a few days if you're unhappy with it.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

Thanks, I've read this interesting article, but it doesn't actually say that LCD pixels have persistence.

If by "persistence" you mean afterglow, they certainly do, and it's one of their biggest problems. You don't see it mentioned in that article because it's about flicker specifically, and flicker is almost non existent in LCDs.

It's harder to find good articles on LCD afterglow, maybe because there's no standard way of combating it yet, but they DO exist. Even just Googling for LCD Afterglow though you can see it's a common problem many discuss.

Yeah and I did botch the link. Thanks, I edited the post.

 

[Esparza89]

You forgot? You're human!

Indeed, your PC may not be able to make the fps match the monitor refresh, but you still get a massive benefit since motion blur is gone. Also, the judder at 80Hz plus doesn't look so annoying either, as it tends to look more like a double edge than a judder.

LightBoost / strobed backlight will improve all your games, because it removes an artifact that's very detrimental to picture quality and one's perception of fast moving objects, motion blur.

These monitors are especially good for racing games, that require fast twitchy timing like fps games and low lag.

I get that spending a lot of money on a forum recommendation would make you hesitate, so I recommend buying it from Amazon like you initially planned, where you can return it to them risk-free within a few days if you're unhappy with it.

Yup I´m gonna try taking everything you guys are telling me into consideration, it´s good to find forums so active like this one. Thanks

 

[Xzibit]

You forgot? You're human!

Indeed, your PC may not be able to make the fps match the monitor refresh, but you still get a massive benefit since motion blur is gone. Also, the judder at 80Hz plus doesn't look so annoying either, as it tends to look more like a double edge than a judder.

LightBoost / strobed backlight will improve all your games, because it removes an artifact that's very detrimental to picture quality and one's perception of fast moving objects, motion blur.

These monitors are especially good for racing games, that require fast twitchy timing like fps games and low lag.

I get that spending a lot of money on a forum recommendation would make you hesitate, so I recommend buying it from Amazon like you initially planned, where you can return it to them risk-free within a few days if you're unhappy with it.

The main thing to remember is in a TN panel these features are altering color accuracy even further.

So straight out of the box the TN color accuracy is horrid and if your altering even more like the website links you posted its going to get even more horrific.

The screenshots clearly show you color differences with adjustments.

Keep that in mind...

An important thing to note is monitors like such can NOT run as calibrated due to this

As you can see from the above, as you dim the backlight from 100% down to 50% only image B is being dimmed still, with image A remaining constantly bright. Below a setting of 40% image A starts to be dimmed as well, progressively more so as you reach towards 0%. At this refresh rate we measured a low PWM frequency of 120Hz which could well introduce a noticeable flicker to the user as that is particularly low for PWM dimming.

Flicker will be noticeable if calibrated for color accuracy.

Its a trade-off you have to be willing to make.