Wednesday, September 7th 2011

MSI Calls Bluff on Gigabyte's PCIe Gen 3 Ready Claim

In August, Gigabyte made a claim that baffled at least MSI, that scores of its motherboards are Ready for Native PCIe Gen. 3. Along with the likes of ASRock, MSI was one of the first with motherboards featuring PCI-Express 3.0 slots, the company took the pains to educate buyers what PCI-E 3.0 is, and how to spot a motherboard that features it. MSI thinks that Gigabyte made a factual blunder bordering misinformation by claiming that as many as 40 of its motherboards are "Ready for Native PCIe Gen. 3." MSI decided to put its engineering and PR team to build a technically-sound presentation rebutting Gigabyte's claims.

More slides, details follow.

MSI begins by explaining that PCIe support isn't as easy as laying a wire between the CPU and the slot. It needs specifications-compliant lane switches and electrical components, and that you can't count on certain Gigabytes for future-proofing.

MSI did some PCI-Express electrical testing using a 22 nm Ivy Bridge processor sample.
MSI claims that apart from the G1.Sniper 2, none of Gigabyte's so-called "Ready for Native PCIe Gen. 3" motherboards are what the badge claims to be, and that the badge is extremely misleading to buyers. Time to refill the popcorn bowl.Source: MSI
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286 Comments on MSI Calls Bluff on Gigabyte's PCIe Gen 3 Ready Claim

#1
dazz
May I go back on topic and ask if having a slot running at 3.0 and another one at 2.0 is effectively the same as having an extra 50% BW?
Posted on Reply
#2
cadaveca
My name is Dave
by: dazz
May I go back on topic and ask if having a slot running at 3.0 and another one at 2.0 is effectively the same as having an extra 50% BW?
;)


It's called deceptive marketing, playing on words, and frankly, shouldn't occur. There's no need for such tactics to garner sales.

And Neliz, i do think you should approach W1zz for a MSI tag under your UID, since noone else seems to want to say it.
Posted on Reply
#3
Steven B
by: sneekypeet
So stealing ideas and making it seem innovative is proper marketing to MSI?

Why not say hey we saw this cool trick and we are on their nuts so we took it from them!
duh LOL hahaha
Posted on Reply
#4
dazz
by: cadaveca
;)


It's called deceptive marketing, playing on words, and frankly, shouldn't occur. There's no need for such tactics to garner sales.
agreed, it's intentionaly misleading, but I'd still like to know if there's some sort of "partial" gain from running 1 slot at 3.0
Posted on Reply
#5
Kreij
Senior Monkey Moderator
by: Neliz
It seems that your biggest gripe is the TPU headline because on the page about DRT we don't mention this "exclusiveness"
From Cadaveca's post above, I'd say you've been pretty much pwned.

I'm just a bystander though, so carry on.
Posted on Reply
#6
neliz
MSI Rep
by: Kreij
From Cadaveca's post above, I'd say you've been pretty much pwned.
How many current Sparkle cards still carry this tech?

http://sparkletw.com/calibre/products/

:)

Also no other graphics card vendor in the world currently bundles those three technologies (Propeller blade, Temp Sensor and dust removal) in one fan.
Posted on Reply
#7
cadaveca
My name is Dave
by: dazz
agreed, it's intentionaly misleading, but I'd still like to know if there's some sort of "partial" gain from running 1 slot at 3.0
Well, considering we don't have any idea as to when PCIe 3.0 devices will even come out, nevermind how they will utilize teh connection, there's no point in even discussing it, as I said a moment ago.


Beleive me, now that this has happened, I'll be paying close attention to things regarding this, as it does fall under the umbrella that is my reviews, and directly relates to my job here @ TPU. You can expect me to be taking a look at this in close detail once PCIe 3.0 devices are launched, and expect at least a thread, if not an article about it.

by: neliz
How many current Sparkle cards still carry this tech?

http://sparkletw.com/calibre/products/

:)

Also no other graphics card vendor in the world currently bundles those three technologies (Propeller blade, Temp Sensor and dust removal) in one fan.
You can still say it's exclusive tech, even without all those caveats. It's an exclusive technology, that includes just those three items, maybe not a tech exclusive to MSI. It's all up for interpretation, and seemingly, done intentionally so. This is the problem about that press release.
Posted on Reply
#8
neliz
MSI Rep
by: cadaveca
This is the problem about that press release.
As far as I'm aware Sparkle doesn't carry that product anymore nor any thermal design with the DRT so "exclusive" would still apply solely to DRT at this point in time as well.
Posted on Reply
#9
cadaveca
My name is Dave
That doesn't even matter, considering the actual english definition of the word. Exclusive works just fine. It's in limited release, only with 580's, correct, so that's enough. It's exclsuive to that card, even within your own product lines, currently.

It's not important, or even on topic. I just wanted to be clear here, where it was that Sneeky was coming from. I really don't want any part of that discussion.


The PCIe 3.0 thing, as I've said before, I will deal with later, months from now. Please feel free to ensure that I receive products to be able to do so. ;) :laugh:
Posted on Reply
#10
sneekypeet
Unpaid Babysitter
by: neliz
That issue has been resolved with AMD.
Really because I was talking about Nvidia cards and a p55 mobo, glad AMD took care of that for ya:roll:
Posted on Reply
#11
neliz
MSI Rep
by: sneekypeet
Really because I was talking about Nvidia cards and a p55 mobo, glad AMD took care of that for ya:roll:
Yeah I had no reference so I just went with what everyone seems to be complaining about :)
Posted on Reply
#12
Solaris17
Creator Solaris Utility DVD
"you just got served"
Posted on Reply
#13
Kreij
Senior Monkey Moderator
by: neliz
Also no other graphics card vendor in the world currently bundles those three technologies (Propeller blade, Temp Sensor and dust removal) in one fan.
I wasn't knocking you on the fact that there may be new technology incorporated into the design which no one else uses, I was knocking you on the fact that you said there was no "exclusiveness" included in the DRT promo, which appears on the same page as the "Exclusive" claim.

Whether that is deceptive is up to the person reading the promotional literature and how much research they have done on the product. Here at TPU we tend to read the fine print and take the stance of "Caveat Emptor".

No offense or denigration to any product intended.
Posted on Reply
#14
cadaveca
My name is Dave
by: Kreij
No offense or denigration to any product intended.
Exactly. Myself, I pride on being 100% impartial to anything but performance. I don't care what vendor brings it, as long as it's real, and can be had by many(ie, you cherry pick my samples, I WILL KNOW, and will say so).

MSI, ASRock, GIgabyte et al can duke this out, just be sure that I wll show the truth of the matter when time, and product releases, allow.

:toast:

P.S.

We do have a policy here @ TPU, on the forums.
Behavior that is inappropriate/should be reported:

Posting "FUD" (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt), especially if the poster is trying to pass it off as legitimate news.
I'm not saying that any of this IS FUD, but I am saying that we will seek the truth of any situation.
Posted on Reply
#15
Steven B
Interesting, i didn't know what FUD stood for LOL.

BTW we don't even know Ivy Bridge will have PCI-E 3.0......

I look forward to your article cadaveca
Posted on Reply
#16
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
both MSI and gigabyte are poop so who really cares?
Posted on Reply
#17
Frick
Fishfaced Nincompoop
by: Easy Rhino
both MSI and gigabyte are poop so who really cares?
Naaaah, I'd go with either one really. I've had awesome boards from both of them and I rarely pay attention to marketing anyway.
Posted on Reply
#18
micropage7
and its return again: marketing words
how many consumers get get blinded by that?
Posted on Reply
#19
Mussels
Moderprator
i just got some more popcorn, not too often we get to see a company rep and a mod duke it out.
Posted on Reply
#21
neliz
MSI Rep
by: jfk1024
MSI fake affirmation about PCI-E 3.0 :banghead: . ASrock was first :slap:
MSI announced it's first Z68 Gen3 boards on (or about) June 1st on Computex.
ASRock announed that they were "first" on June 28th, at which time MSI was already shipping and selling :)

It would be really nice if you actually backed up your accusations with something :)

http://www.techpowerup.com/live/Computex_2011/MSI.php
http://pcper.com/news/Graphics-Cards/MSI-shows-Gen3-PCIe-X79-Motherboard-and-GTX-580-Extreme
Posted on Reply
#22
jfk1024
by: neliz
MSI announced it's first Z68 Gen3 boards on (or about) June 1st on Computex.
ASRock announed that they were "first" on June 28th, at which time MSI was already shipping and selling :)

It would be really nice if you actually backed up your accusations with something :)

http://www.techpowerup.com/live/Computex_2011/MSI.php
http://pcper.com/news/Graphics-Cards/MSI-shows-Gen3-PCIe-X79-Motherboard-and-GTX-580-Extreme
ASRock reached the shelves first. So, they did it first. :nutkick:
Posted on Reply
#23
neliz
MSI Rep
by: jfk1024
ASRock reached the shelves first. So, they did it first. :nutkick:
Hmm, not really
http://www.tcmagazine.com/tcm/news/hardware/39466/asrock-goes-big-releases-pci-express-30-supporting-z68-motherboard
Unfortunately, despite ASRock’s bragging about the Fatal1ty Z68 Professional Gen3 going ‘on sale now’, we haven’t found it in stores.
At which time we were already selling. At its best, they could claim listing in pricewatches (pre-ordering) at that time.

You registered specifically for this subject (burn MSI?) but you haven't brought anything to the table yet. I don't mind discussing things but you keep digging and not striking gold.
Posted on Reply
#24
jfk1024
by: neliz
Hmm, not really
http://www.tcmagazine.com/tcm/news/hardware/39466/asrock-goes-big-releases-pci-express-30-supporting-z68-motherboard



At which time we were already selling. At its best, they could claim listing in pricewatches at the same time.

You registered specifically for this subject (burn MSI?) but you haven't brought anything to the table yet. I don't mind discussing things but you keep digging and not striking gold.
I was talking about ASrock Z68 Extreme3 Gen3, or you are going to say that is not a PCI-E 3.0 motherboard?
Posted on Reply
#25
neliz
MSI Rep
by: jfk1024
I was talking about ASrock Z68 Extreme3 Gen3, or you are going to say that is not a PCI-E 3.0 motherboard?
Which was "launched" (not on sale!) at what, July 13/14/15? this is not only a month and a half after MSI's announcements but also a good two weeks after ASRock's first Gen3 board the Z68 Fatal1ty Pro Gen3.

http://www.tcmagazine.com/tcm/news/hardware/39722/asrock-release-four-more-lga-1155-boards-pci-express-30
The prices and availability of the new Gen3 models have not been mentioned yet.
Again, I don't mind discussing this at all but you don't bring any facts to the table. Since you registered here and desperately wanted to make a point (Anti-MSI) I hope we can have a fruitful discussion based on facts.



Please?
Posted on Reply
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