| Saturday, June 28 2008 |
With the cost of manufacture for a standard G200 die reaching up to US $110, thanks to yields as low as 40 per cent, NVIDIA seems to be in a rush for a 55nm revamp of its current GPUs. While nothing revolutionary is on the cards, and with 55nm G92b already in the making, NVIDIA plans to revamp its G200 graphics processors to the 55nm fab process, increasing yields up to 50 per cent. At 55nm, the G200 die will be effectively reduced to 470 sq. mm, implies 120 dice on a 300mm wafer.
The pace at which things are moving is having the partners red-eyed. NVIDIA's new Unilateral Minimum Advertised Price Policy (UMAP) has limited partners' playing field and minimizes competition between them. When NVIDIA at the same time decides to launch new cards based on existing cores, at lower prices, partners get upset over diminishing earnings. Add to that AMD's new RV770 chip is looking very tempting to some of these partners.
Source: NordicHardware
The pace at which things are moving is having the partners red-eyed. NVIDIA's new Unilateral Minimum Advertised Price Policy (UMAP) has limited partners' playing field and minimizes competition between them. When NVIDIA at the same time decides to launch new cards based on existing cores, at lower prices, partners get upset over diminishing earnings. Add to that AMD's new RV770 chip is looking very tempting to some of these partners.
Source: NordicHardware
User comments
It costs so much already for partners to purchase the chips from Nvidia, and Nvidia forces the partners to drive their costs down-what AMD said about Nvidia's monolithic faliure was right...
470sqmm is STILL huge.
470sqmm is STILL huge.
YEAH!!! everyone sell ATi :D lol
nvidia controls too much and might actually hurt itself in the long run ...
nvidia controls too much and might actually hurt itself in the long run ...
Not bad....BFG HD4870 OC2....on a BFG 790 FX board :D
But yes, merely shrinking everything to 55nm wouldn't help them much. It can only send costs down (which it hasn't, 9800 GTX+ costs more than the virgin GTX). They need a something with 144/160/172 SP's.
But yes, merely shrinking everything to 55nm wouldn't help them much. It can only send costs down (which it hasn't, 9800 GTX+ costs more than the virgin GTX). They need a something with 144/160/172 SP's.
i like that "war" it drop prices.....:)
by: btarunr;859855Now thats what I want to see!
Not bad....BFG HD4870 OC2....on a BFG 790 FX board :D
-Indybird
I'll always stay with Nvidia!
by: Airbrushkid;859938
I'll always stay with Nvidia!
I'll always stay with best prices:nutkick:
by: lepra24;859947agreed.Plus at this time ati is definately the best bang for buck.
I'll always stay with best prices:nutkick:
I find it downright ridiculous that despite knowing that HD4870 beats (or equals) the GTX 260, they continue to price it $399, and upto $459 for factory OC-ed variants.
this explains why companies like gainward are becoming neutral, as they transition over to ati cards.
Isn't everything about a competitive business market at a 'rush' pace?
Crack the whip Nvidia, bring on the 55nm.
Because they can 'afford' to, even if the ratio to ATi card sale(s) is low. ATi has a lot of catching up to do both financially and in resources.
Crack the whip Nvidia, bring on the 55nm.
by: btarunr;860104
I find it downright ridiculous that despite knowing that HD4870 beats (or equals) the GTX 260, they continue to price it $399, and upto $459 for factory OC-ed variants.
Because they can 'afford' to, even if the ratio to ATi card sale(s) is low. ATi has a lot of catching up to do both financially and in resources.
Now for ATI to "FINISH HIM!", they need a strategy to ingratiate themselves to game developers with this awesome hardware (a'la TWIWMTBP).
With the numbers RV770 is able to produce (across OGL, DX9, DX10) it should happen rather quickly.
With the numbers RV770 is able to produce (across OGL, DX9, DX10) it should happen rather quickly.
One of the prime factors that has NV's partners pissed is the UMAP. Tier-I partners such as BFG, XFX, EVGA make the most, while smaller ones like Zotac, Zogis, Sparkle, are hit worse. We even saw Palit_Guy all red-eyed about this. Thankfully Palit can always prioritize on ATI products.
by: Dr. Spankenstein;860166I 100% agree.
Now for ATI to "FINISH HIM!", they need a strategy to ingratiate themselves to game developers with this awesome hardware (a'la TWIWMTBP).
With the numbers RV770 is able to produce (across OGL, DX9, DX10) it should happen rather quickly.
Timing is perfect right now for ATI to fire up their own campaign like what nVidia has with TWIMTBP, and I'd fathom to say many game devs would hop on rather quickly . . . and if ATI could garner more developer support pushing DX10.1, it would truly make things interesting.
the only wrench in the works is probably the amount of money nVidia offer development teams as well, which is something ATI can't really do to a similar extent.
But, we've got some big league titles scheduled for this year, that are rumored to have DX10 support . . . prime crop for ATI to hop on the ball and help them impliment DX10.1 . . . STALKER: Clear Sky, (FEAR) Project Origin and Splinter Cell: Convictions are all slated for late Q3/Q4 release. Seeing ATI work with these teams would be a big bonus to coincide with the flagship 4870x2 release.
Its a bit ridiculous the way Nvidia does business. I hope they make a decent turn around with this. I wouldnt Want ATI to be the only gpu maker out there (not likely to happen, but you get my point)
It's terrible as it is but NV has to find out that they can't continue to sell their junk for so much. When the g200b GTX280 or whatever comes out it'll probably cost just as much as the 65nm GTX280. The performance will be improved but it will still cost too much. Mix that in with UMAP & I can see why distros have a problem with them. When it comes down to it, do ppl realy buy overpriced, undervalued cards, especially when there's something out there that costs $100 less & beats it. An e-penis can only get so big.
They might want to recover their profits, don't expect the G200 (55nm) to bring down prices. At most, expect a $350 GTX 260 for obvious reasons that the $299~$310 HD4870 walks all over it.
by: btarunr;860255You mean "runs all over it", right?
They might want to recover their profits, don't expect the G200 (55nm) to bring down prices. At most, expect a $350 GTX 260 for obvious reasons that the $299~$310 HD4870 walks all over it.
by: HTC;860263
You mean "runs all over it", right?
I actually thought of "stomps it" but then I thought it was a little rude.
i needs 3w2ay crossfire on a stick ala 3850 trinity.
by: btarunr;860265Right ... :roll:
I actually thought of "stomps it" but then I thought it was a little rude.
Btw: congratz on your promotion (?) to staff, dude!
well im still thinking Nvidia has a few tricks left, honestly look who where dealing with, look at advertisment. Also Nvidia won't be Finaccaly hurt as terrible as you assume. Under 200 bucks which is also the biggest market availble. The 9600GT/8800GT sell for 50 less than the 4850 and out preform the 3870, below that we have the 8600GT and 8500GT which are going in alot of cheap PC's. Add in the mobile grahpics for desktop replacements and and cheap PC's
Sure there are offerings from NV that have retreated to the $150 bar, but the whole world knows that for just $199 you get kickass smashass card that can scale upto four GPUs. So you can buy a CFX board, keep adding a card whenever feasible and end up with a strong GP-sub system.
Kids don't need to sell crack to buy a solid graphics card anymore, their X-Mas income + Mr. Wilson's lawn income would suffice.
Kids don't need to sell crack to buy a solid graphics card anymore, their X-Mas income + Mr. Wilson's lawn income would suffice.
the point is the largest segment of graphics card sales is under 100 bucks your forgetting that bta.
Why could nvidia not have made the transition earlier.. now the lineup will get even more confusing.. ati makes ONE 4870 and ONE 4850..
by: candle_86;860413where the 3850 is likely to dominate. is already tops wiz's price/perf charts. though to be true ati is about to launch lower 4000series cards which will change that bracket. and their specs don't look anywhere close to those of the 3850.
the point is the largest segment of graphics card sales is under 100 bucks your forgetting that bta.
the 3850 looses to the 9600GSO don't forget that. Also for gaming on a super tight budget an 8500GT or 8600GT is a nice card also. I can't see Nvidia being to hurt even in the FX days they had more market share simply because of marketing and feature wise the FX5200 looked better than the 9200, even if it was slower. Nvidia marketing and the price/preformance of the lower end G92/G94/G84/G86 will keep Nvidia in the game even if GT200 doesnt do well
Yeah, but the revised pricing throws HD3850 back into the $80 ~ $110 range.
sure ati go to drop prices more
by: Megasty;860248
It's terrible as it is but NV has to find out that they can't continue to sell their junk for so much. When the g200b GTX280 or whatever comes out it'll probably cost just as much as the 65nm GTX280. The performance will be improved but it will still cost too much. Mix that in with UMAP & I can see why distros have a problem with them. When it comes down to it, do ppl realy buy overpriced, undervalued cards, especially when there's something out there that costs $100 less & beats it. An e-penis can only get so big.
I guess you still either don't get it, or won't admit it, that the 280 offers something that no other card on the market can (which will probably include the 4870X2), and that is, virtually no texture loading stuttering, and consistenty solid minimum frame rates.
It's the first GPU to actually make proper 100% real time use of it's 1GB texture RAM.
For too long, people have had components in their systems that are top of the line, high end, and in some cases overkill for the applications they are attempting to run. Yet the GPU is the thing that holds them back, with it's hitching, bottoming-out RAMDAC, and instabilities.
The 4870 might be on par with top-end potential frame rates, but 80 fps is not what I need to 'get my game on.' I don't need 60, 50 or even 40 frames for that matter. What I need, what we all need, is a card they lets us stay consistent as much as possible. To take whatever the game throws at it, chew it up, and spit it back out while grinning the whole time.
Nvidia knows that consumers in 'the know,' will pay the premium price just for this aspect alone.
The problem is, that the general consumer isn't aware of these issues; or rather they notice them, yet cannot define or comprehend them - thus not being able to realise that the GTX 280 resolves said issues.
THAT part of it, will hurt Nvidia, yet again, with the amount of money and resources they have, they probably don't care.
They'll drag out the price on the 280 as long as they can, and for good reason.
Which leads us back to square one : People on a budget need to stop bitching that they can't have high-end products at a non-budget price.
On a lighter note, consider that there's plenty of cards already on the market (pre 4800/200) that can handle a lot of 3d applications without a problem; and now, they're becoming cheaper.
If anything, rejoice that your budget can accomodate a nice piece of hardware, and let those people who are fortunate enough to have lots of money, be able to enjoy the 'best of the best,'
rather than crying and bitching about it.
Life.... deal with it.
I'm not poor so I'll stay with Nvidia. :toast:
by: lepra24;859947
I'll always stay with best prices:nutkick:
by: newconroer;861400
I guess you still either don't get it, or won't admit it, that the 280 offers something that no other card on the market can (which will probably include the 4870X2), and that is, virtually no texture loading stuttering, and consistenty solid minimum frame rates.
It's the first GPU to actually make proper 100% real time use of it's 1GB texture RAM.
For too long, people have had components in their systems that are top of the line, high end, and in some cases overkill for the applications they are attempting to run. Yet the GPU is the thing that holds them back, with it's hitching, bottoming-out RAMDAC, and instabilities.
The 4870 might be on par with top-end potential frame rates, but 80 fps is not what I need to 'get my game on.' I don't need 60, 50 or even 40 frames for that matter. What I need, what we all need, is a card they lets us stay consistent as much as possible. To take whatever the game throws at it, chew it up, and spit it back out while grinning the whole time.
Nvidia knows that consumers in 'the know,' will pay the premium price just for this aspect alone.
The problem is, that the general consumer isn't aware of these issues; or rather they notice them, yet cannot define or comprehend them - thus not being able to realise that the GTX 280 resolves said issues.
THAT part of it, will hurt Nvidia, yet again, with the amount of money and resources they have, they probably don't care.
They'll drag out the price on the 280 as long as they can, and for good reason.
Which leads us back to square one : People on a budget need to stop bitching that they can't have high-end products at a non-budget price.
On a lighter note, consider that there's plenty of cards already on the market (pre 4800/200) that can handle a lot of 3d applications without a problem; and now, they're becoming cheaper.
If anything, rejoice that your budget can accomodate a nice piece of hardware, and let those people who are fortunate enough to have lots of money, be able to enjoy the 'best of the best,'
rather than crying and bitching about it.
Life.... deal with it.
That's all fine and good, and I understand you're point to the minimum FPS rates . . .
but has anyone really stopped to think how much the system itself adds to this issue moreso than the VGA apdater itself?
Sure, it might take a 3870 1GB a little longer to load textures into VRAM, but sitting on a PCIE2.0 BUS decreases load times as well; but if you're trying to load up textures with a P4 sitting in the CPU throne, that in itself will drastically lengthen how long it takes for the VGA adapter to be able to load everything up. You're dealing with a massively bottlenecked system, a bottlenecked BUS, pathetic L1/L2 caches . . . all that can seriously anchor minimum FPS by extended load times.
Just in comparison with my system, I experience very little load-up stuttering and even then, the amount of time is minimal (except in the case of Crysis). Does it detract at all from the gaming experience? Not in the least, seeing as how it's only an issue once a game level is loaded up . . . once the game itself is off an running, I don't notice any other issues until you hit that one spot where it needs to swap in/out textures, and unless that 0.5s pause is going to get one's panties in a bunch, I find it nothing to complain about at all.
by: Airbrushkid;861942How about you G*F*Y*S*?
I'm not poor so I'll stay with Nvidia. :toast:
Sorry mods