That is a small die size because the RV670 is 192mm2, but anyways, a dual core GPU? Should be interesting to see how that performs.

Wouldn't it be nice if they launched the R800 first or along with the RV870s?

RV870 isn't a huge deal (as the R700 is probably way faster), but I absolutely can't wait for the R800.

-Indybird

now thats crazy

lol i dont expect alot from this thing its not gonna be that fast

Its not that impressive at all, for one core. Who knows, the RV870 may be the dual core itself - that would be something ;)

by: candle_86;891865

---

lol i dont expect alot from this thing its not gonna be that fast

---

Come on dude, you're not even trying anymore. Nvidia's going to stop sending you checks if that's the best you can do. :D

they where never even paying me for all the PR i did, but i suppose if you want a candle fanboy statement i can do it one more time

You can't seriously expect this card to do anything can you, its just a few extra SP's tacked onto the core and a 512bit bus (which all the ATI fanboys said was stupid) and i doubt this thing will touch even a GTX260 let alone the 280, its gonna be total crap.

there a fanboy statement

Im curious about the Dual Core GPU's myself Especially Since ATi have the support of AMD behind them - there shouldnt be a reason why they cant make it do'able.

by: btarunr;891830

---

Sources at TSMC...

Another interesting news is that R800, unlike its predecessors the R700 and R680, might not be a dual-GPU card but the world's first dual-core GPU.

Source: Hardspell

---

It would be about damn time that we see a true dual-core GPU! I've been stating and waiting for years that this is the direction that should be taken, yeah it would probably mean a step back in fab tech, and maybe that's what they were waiting for..I know processing power on GPU's is insane these days, even if tuned for more specific jobs...just think of 3-4 years ago or so when the first dual core CPU's started coming out (iirc).

I really hope NV and AMD take the dual-core route over the dual-GPU route in the future, sure it may mean better cooling technology, but I think it will be a great step forward for consumer value and performance.

:toast:

I Honestly think that rv870 might represent a separate clock for shader domain, I mean if it indeed has only 100+ more shaders, and looking at that die size, they could easily have the shaders running at 2ghz+, for them to take it easy on the sp's seems like they will certainly clock the shaders high, and that might just double the performance of rv770, or even more. that would seem like a perfect product to me, because higher shader clock really makes a big difference.

The heat output over almost 1000 sp's in the core would be pretty insane at 2GHz clocks though...but it could be very possible...really I'd rather see dual core GPU's w/around 500 sp's each and see what happens...of course if the dual core can't be properly utilized this could be a very bad thing, but I hope it will be possible to better utilze dual-core than dual-gpu...if the dual-core is id'd as one gpu, and with the threading possiblities already prevelant in graphics for gaming, I really hope to see some greater good of this.

by: candle_86;891892

---

they where never even paying me for all the PR i did, but i suppose if you want a candle fanboy statement i can do it one more time

You can't seriously expect this card to do anything can you, its just a few extra SP's tacked onto the core and a 512bit bus (which all the ATI fanboys said was stupid) and i doubt this thing will touch even a GTX260 let alone the 280, its gonna be total crap.

there a fanboy statement

---

HD4870 is as fast as GTX260:banghead:

winter someone asked me for a fanboy comment, i wasnt serious :P

by: Winterwind;891961

---

HD4870 is as fast as GTX260:banghead:

---

For now...both cards are young and the drivers are very untapped on both...give it a few months to mature before true statements can be ushered with serious relevance...yeah for the "now" you're right from what I've read...but hard saying what will be truth in the fall after driver maturity happens. Hopefully they're more even than not imo.

:toast:

I don't think by just the increasing shader clock on it will make it twice as fast as the RV770, maybe 20-30%.

Anyways; with an increased shader clock, increased core clock, and 32 more stream processors the RV870 should be around 60%-70% faster than the RV770.

So when is all this coming out Q4 08? Q1 09? Q2 09?

-Indybird

Guys use your brain... whats the point of dual core for GPUs? Its the same as just doubling the shaders/ROPs :rolleyes:.

Is this AMD's tactic to get shareholders to hold onto their shares?

bta. you da man.

also... INTEL.

If they get a good performing dual-core gpu out I am gonna sell my intel rig and go AMD. Thats just crazy

by: Kursah;891960

---

The heat output over almost 1000 sp's in the core would be pretty insane at 2GHz clocks though...but it could be very possible...really I'd rather see dual core GPU's w/around 500 sp's each and see what happens...of course if the dual core can't be properly utilized this could be a very bad thing, but I hope it will be possible to better utilze dual-core than dual-gpu...if the dual-core is id'd as one gpu, and with the threading possiblities already prevelant in graphics for gaming, I really hope to see some greater good of this.

---

well ati sp's at a 40nm process would not make that much heat output, if the heat stays the same going from 320 to 800, I don't think there should be any heat problems at all. ati's 800 sp's are 160 true shaders that can do 5 instructions at one time, So truly they are 160x5, thats how ati couts it. it is 160 fat shaders that can do a lot of things.

nvidia already has overclocked gtx 280's running to 1.5ghz sp's and 1.4 billion transistors, if they can do it, anything is possible lol.

by: tkpenalty;892006

---

Guys use your brain... whats the point of dual core for GPUs? Its the same as just doubling the shaders/ROPs :rolleyes:.

Is this AMD's tactic to get shareholders to hold onto their shares?

---

I think most people are using there brains when they talk about dual core gpu, just think about it, it might just eliminate the crossfire or sli issues that we all have to go through, it would be step in the right direction, and I think that is the way amd is going, on 40nm process it is very possible. and will probably be cheap as hell to make too.

Nkd you your two consecutive posts have some great points man, and I hope to see all of this come to light, until then it's just more speculation...but at least it's such that I have been waiting to hear from one side or the other. Gotta say the vid card business hasn't been boring for years now lol!

:toast:

Technically speaking its still two GPUs one one card; the R800. I'd assume its two RV870 cores which are fused in one package with an intergrated interconnect. However this is.... what Nvidia was doing; monolithic GPU as its in one package.

yup dual core GPU is monolithic except it has to split everything up

by: Kursah;892042

---

Nkd you your two consecutive posts have some great points man, and I hope to see all of this come to light, until then it's just more speculation...but at least it's such that I have been waiting to hear from one side or the other. Gotta say the vid card business hasn't been boring for years now lol!

:toast:

---

thanks, it just makes more sense was we hear these news, gpu's are slowly heading towards where cpu's already are, but they seem to be adapting at a faster rate than cpu's did, just look at it this way, intel is still on 45nm and their next cpu architecture will be on 45nm as well, and by early next year gpu's might just surpass cpu's in effeciency for crunching number and power usage might be the same as a high end cpu. the next step for ati is going to be 40nm and same for nvidia unless they take 55nm first, as TSMC has said that they don't have 45nm for gpu's I believe from the news I have been reading. Nvidia will probably start doing the same, and they will try to shrink to 40nm before they even consider releasing the real next highend gpu, because they probably know now after thier profits have been minimized.

by: tkpenalty;892006

---

Guys use your brain... whats the point of dual core for GPUs? Its the same as just doubling the shaders/ROPs :rolleyes:.

---

Bingo. GPUs are already multicore.

Shaders can't be called 'cores'. Core = shaders + ROP + all the crap that's in the GPU schematic. As to the 'doubled' argument, it's modular for ATI to slap two dies onto a package, or use just one die as a RV870. Think of it as a Yorkfield CPU, where two Penryns are slapped onto it, the same single Penryn makes a Wolfdale, in to two, it makes Yorkfield.

by: FreedomEclipse;891895

---

Im curious about the Dual Core GPU's myself Especially Since ATi have the support of AMD behind them - there shouldnt be a reason why they cant make it do'able.

---

AMD isn't doing too well in the Dual Core processor's itself.

by: xfire;892137

---

AMD isn't doing too well in the Dual Core processor's itself.

---

Oh? My Athlon X2 5600+ is doing just fine :D

r870 quad core will be as big as single core GTX350 and 4 times faster than gtx280 :) nice :>

Another small point, Nvidia are not coming up with any new architecture types themselves. Look at the specs for the GTX300, still no Dx 10.1 present.

If you ask me, i'd say ATI have found a solution to making their dx 10 GPU designs faster, and that this new (or upgraded) GPU is going to be faster than anticipated once again.

yes, that is sad, they could easly deploy DX11 (specs ar coming out soon) i think that something must be wery wrong at nvidia, they stuck at G80 arhitecture

ok but we have to ask our selves is this already the specs for the 2 cores put together or is this beast going to have 1920 stream processors form what im aiming at now is ATI is going to stay budget conscious and keep it small. As for nvidia its again a monolithic if the specs are true the Nvidia card will destroy this because of its 512 bit GDDR 5 unless the initial count of 960 stream processors stays the same. But with a 512 bit GDDR5 @ 2gigs the Nvidia card's price tag is going to be as epic/monolithic as the GPU itself. But then again it only has 480 Stream Processors so its going to rely on memory bandwidth alone. I dont know from the paper if i can get a 4 - 2 GPU cores in the same die package as the other guy......:shadedshu

as u can see 512bit (radeon 2900) still doesnt do the thing it is slower than 256 bit radeon 3870.
i think that 512 is nota big deal. it is not going zo be twice as much fast as 256 BIT.
I think that we can expect up to 4 cores as one chip

WOWeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, finally some speculation !!!!!



Its been so quiet last few days after the performance numbers for 'Spartan' came out , finally something to discuss !!!!


What i think ?

This new card is just like moving from HD2xxx series to HD3xxx series, except that ATI doesn't have a flawed product like HD2xxx this time something like INtel's tick tock strategy . So they can build upon their strengths of HD4xxx.

So expect to see :

Reduced power consumption

HD2xxx to HD3xxx ( 65nm to 55nm )

HD4xxx to HD5xxx (55nm to 45nm or 40nm , more difference than above, hopefully )

I expect to see 20% performance increase

i dont think ATI will improve the architecture with a new fab increase, since a new architecture on a new fab process involves great risks, which is the last thing ATI needs right now.

The new cards will just be refined, kinks ironed out , maybe powerplay , something like GT200's idle 25W power consumption .

exactly, r870 has a root in r600

by: tkpenalty;892006

---

Guys use your brain... whats the point of dual core for GPUs? Its the same as just doubling the shaders/ROPs :rolleyes:.

Is this AMD's tactic to get shareholders to hold onto their shares?

---

It's not just the same. In terms of performance it should be if done right, however it should give better yields than one huge monolithic GPU, and this has been the reasoning for AMD's dual-gpu tactic all along. It's more economical and will improve prices and profits.

to the issue at hand this is purely speculation at this time but looks very promising, i think ati finally got sick of having there asses handed to them by nvidia, and the gap was closed with the 48** series, if the next gen cards can close that gap even further thats all good news in my book :toast:

In this batch of apples there are red & green. But there is only one type of lime.
The green apples are the R600/700/800. These cards are the best in their league. The limes can only match or take them by doubling themselves.
The red apples are the RV670/770/870. The limes don't care about these cards because all they have to do is water themselves down alittle to match them.
IMO, the apples & limes need to get together & make some nasty fruit pie b4 the watermelon comes crashing down & take 'em both out :D

Heres the big question about the R800:

Yeah its dual-core, but is the memory shared?

-Indybird

I suggest eveyone stay on topic an just stick to worrying about themselves.

I would happily stay on topic, in future what I'll do is report peples posts that I don't like and that I deem off topic. Like posting deliberate jibes at other members posts (post #8) followed by obviously condescending posts (post #14). Nice one.
Oh and to remain on topic, this card is going to be amazing.

Well, staying on topic isn't what I just discussed with you over a PM. If you have a problem PM a moderator, or report the post. Don't post on the thread that you "are going to do it" or that you have. This isn't up for discussion here. On topic, or don't post.:slap:

ATI is a winner

That's good and all, but if it isn't too much faster than the 4870 then it really won't be worth buying now would it. That 20% would put it in exactly the same range as the GTX280 & it would only translate to a few fps in games. Also by then, the 4870 will be cheap as hell. That baby better be a dual core or it will fail, epically.

lol anyways this comes as no surprize, it' supposed to be smaller cooler rv770 with a few more sp's probabaly fix any issues on the rv770. think of it more like the x1950 was to the x1900.

by: yogurt_21;893233

---

lol anyways this comes as no surprize, it' supposed to be smaller cooler rv770 with a few more sp's probabaly fix any issues on the rv770. think of it more like the x1950 was to the x1900.

---

Or the RV770 to the R600 too! :toast:

1.2times the 4870 isnt all that. its probably the same as the gtx280. owell anything faster is great.

ati must make the base bit for new card now 512 and go more , to help it have good performance like new gtx 350

They also can up the number of transistors with the smaller process. That will definitely help the performance ratio. Too bad TSMC won't give us the transistor count.
They must have it really good, working with both companies & everything. One extra tid-bit & it creates a huge conflict of interest. But we'll take what we can get.

alecstar was right, we are certianly in the muscle-car era of video cards. powerful, but suck up more and more killerwatts.

Keep this up and framerates will be so good on Crysis that my head will explode when I turn on my computer lol.

by: candle_86;891892

---

they where never even paying me for all the PR i did, but i suppose if you want a candle fanboy statement i can do it one more time

You can't seriously expect this card to do anything can you, its just a few extra SP's tacked onto the core and a 512bit bus (which all the ATI fanboys said was stupid) and i doubt this thing will touch even a GTX260 let alone the 280, its gonna be total crap.

there a fanboy statement

---

How uninformed...

4870 about ties with the gtx 260, and sometimes the 280. 1.2x the power of the 4870 would be a 280. XD

I doubt it'll be that slow. It's still 7+ months away. How often do you get CORRECT information on hardware 7 months in advance? Remember when we thought the 4870 had like 480SPs and it ended up having 800? That was just 4 months of waiting.

Edit: Accidental thread bump it seems...

by: zithe;900721

---

[QUOTE=candle_86;891892]they where never even paying me for all the PR i did, but i suppose if you want a candle fanboy statement i can do it one more time

You can't seriously expect this card to do anything can you, its just a few extra SP's tacked onto the core and a 512bit bus (which all the ATI fanboys said was stupid) and i doubt this thing will touch even a GTX260 let alone the 280, its gonna be total crap.

there a fanboy statement

---

How uninformed...

4870 about ties with the gtx 260, and sometimes the 280. 1.2x the power of the 4870 would be a 280. XD

I doubt it'll be that slow. It's still 7+ months away. How often do you get CORRECT information on hardware 7 months in advance? Remember when we thought the 4870 had like 480SPs and it ended up having 800? That was just 4 months of waiting.

Edit: Accidental thread bump it seems...[/quote]he was being sarcastic hence the

by: candle_86;891892

---

there's a fanboy statement

---

at the end :)

thank you, someone read the whole post, but in all honesty, i doubt this new core will be worth the cost to upgrade for anyone with a 4850/70. It seems like its more to tie the GTX280 at a lower cost than the 4870 X2

I think there is something some people have missed. With split power planes with dual core GPU, you could have one core shut down, just as CPU's with dynamic power management. Imagine.... a nearly 2000 core gpu that can shut down half of itself and slow the half that is running down by 50%. Idle would be minimal while maximum power.... you'd be able to fold proteins on your desktop in less than a century.

Old thread, but WTH...
If RV870 is anywhere near what the rumor in 1st post describes - including any type of Crossfired multicores - it would be a huge disappointment.
I want an old-style monolithic GPU sized 300-400mm².

by: indybird;891856

---

Wouldn't it be nice if they launched the R800 first or along with the RV870s?

RV870 isn't a huge deal (as the R700 is probably way faster), but I absolutely can't wait for the R800.

-Indybird

---

So by your logic, R770 wasn't a huge deal either?