Monday, October 5th 2009

Hack Released to Enable PhysX on Windows 7 with ATI GPU Present

For NVIDIA's PhysX technology, it has been a roller-coaster ride since NVIDIA's acquisition of the technology, and its makers. As much as PhysX quickly became one of the important selling-points of NVIDIA's consumer graphics line GeForce, it also had its small share of controversy, linked to market dynamics more than anything. With the technology's port to the GeForce GPU, enthusiasts fancied having the freedom of choice with a primary GPU that is dedicated to rendering 3D graphics, and a second GPU that is just about powerful to assign as a dedicated PhysX GPU.

Although having a powerful ATI Radeon GPU aided by a less-powerful NVIDIA GeForce GPU for PhysX was possible on Windows XP, the succeeding Windows Vista restricted this, by making sure two active display drivers couldn't coexist. Windows 7 removed this restriction, but before you could rejoice, NVIDIA quickly released a driver-level code with its 186 series drivers, that disables NVIDIA PhysX altogether when a GPU from another vendor is coexisting and enabled, even an IGP for that matter. If that wasn't bizarre enough, with the latest drivers, you can't even pair an Ageia PhysX PPU card with an ATI Radeon GPU going about its business. To the rescue comes a soft-modder's nifty bit of software that overrides this restriction from NVIDIA's drivers, so you can use dedicated GeForce PhysX cards on machines with ATI Radeon primary GPUs again. The corrective driver patch comes from tech portal NGOHQ.com community member GenL.

The patch, which you can download here, has been successful so far going by community members' feedback. It lays to rest any argument NVIDIA would like to make about how using dedicated PhysX cards with primary GPUs of your choice (which happen to be an ATI Radeon) would be the end of the world, other than of course, market-dynamics.

Speaking of which, here's NVIDIA's statement on why dedicated PhysX accelerators ought not to work with GPUs from other vendors: "PhysX is an open software standard any company can freely develop hardware or software that supports it. NVIDIA supports GPU accelerated PhysX on NVIDIA GPUs while using NVIDIA GPUs for graphics. NVIDIA performs extensive Engineering, Development, and QA work that makes PhysX a great experience for customers. For a variety of reasons - some development expense some quality assurance and some business reasons NVIDIA will not support GPU accelerated Physx with NVIDIA GPUs while GPU rendering is happening on non- NVIDIA GPUs."Source: NGOHQ
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111 Comments on Hack Released to Enable PhysX on Windows 7 with ATI GPU Present

#1
Wile E
Power User
PP Mguire said:
It will last a good long while and probably beat any other kind of phisics standard. Why you ask? Well like Rhino was saying if this was such a joke then why even bother with a hack for it? Apparently its more real then people think and more people want it even though they dont want to admit it. SO yea, with that being said id say PhysX is around to stay.
Not to mention, just because direct compute and OpenCL are upon us, doesn't mean that they will be easy to program for, or nVidia can't just port Physx over to that.

I think Physx will stick around. Perhaps not exactly as it is now, but I don't think it will be dying.
Posted on Reply
#2
mlee49
I want screen shots!
Posted on Reply
#3
PP Mguire
Wile E said:
Not to mention, just because direct compute and OpenCL are upon us, doesn't mean that they will be easy to program for, or nVidia can't just port Physx over to that.

I think Physx will stick around. Perhaps not exactly as it is now, but I don't think it will be dying.
Lol first time ever somebody agrees with me on a flame bate topic thread like this.

Im no fanboi of PhysX but just with what i see going on i think its gonna stay.
Posted on Reply
#4
Wile E
Power User
Well, back on topic, the x64 patch doesn't seem to work with the latest WHQL drivers (191.07).
Posted on Reply
#5
TheMailMan78
Big Member
Wile E said:
Not to mention, just because direct compute and OpenCL are upon us, doesn't mean that they will be easy to program for, or nVidia can't just port Physx over to that.

I think Physx will stick around. Perhaps not exactly as it is now, but I don't think it will be dying.
PP Mguire said:
Lol first time ever somebody agrees with me on a flame bate topic thread like this.

I'm no fanboi of PhysX but just with what i see going on i think its gonna stay.
I personally think it will go the way of the dinosaur but Wile E and I were debating that in another thread. Anyway people hack stuff all the time just to piss off a maker. Kinda like when your dad says no you go off and do it anyway.

Just because someone hacks something doesn't validate its importance to anyone but the original maker and the hacker himself.

Oh and before anyone goes all Chuck Norris on me I happen to like Physx. I just haven't seen anything to justify a dedicated GPU yet.
Posted on Reply
#6
Marineborn
sweet, im gonna buy some cheapass lowend NV card to get some phyX! sucka..WOOT WOOT!!
Posted on Reply
#7
[I.R.A]_FBi
Regeneration said:
If I were GenL, I’d remove the patch and tell everyone to ignore PhysX. A good PC game would remain good with or without PhysX.
Cosign
Posted on Reply
#8
exodusprime1337
i was able to do this a while ago using the 181. series driver or somethign simaler. It worked fine with my g/f's 4870 and an 8800gts 512 on windows 7 x64, did it about a month ago
Posted on Reply
#10
theubersmurf
W1zzard said:
if you are a serious developer they actually help you out with coding and give you money if you use those technologies in your product
I'm talking about licensing cuda to ATI/AMD, not developers. I'm willing to bet it's an arm and a leg to license it, ATI and invidia have gone at it like cats and dogs forever, even though they want their proprietary physics to be the standard, and would support it's running on their hardware, I just can't see them paying ATI to implement it.

btarunr said:
Like I said, EPen1smark Vantage. If it never had anything to do with PhysX, If I were an ATI user, I wouldn't even bother with any of it.
I have seen some physx stuff I liked, even though I thought the game was sort of lame, I thought the physics in mirror's edge did add a lot to the game, and I liked it overall...They could have done more with it, but meh, it was still pretty cool.

HellasVagabond said:
I would expect Legal Action by NVIDIA since it is their Technology so do not expect for this hack to survive long....Not to mention that Microsoft will certainly ban it from future updates....
Well hopefully someone will have the wits to take invida to court for not allowing their gpus to use a feature of their cards...disabling features in the presence of another manufacturers gpu is overall pretty weak, when it could be a way to sell more cards for them. I'm not sure why invida would want to do this really, they still sell cards, just not the highest end ones.
Posted on Reply
#12
VIPER
btarunr said:
As for legality, NVIDIA can do what it wants with its hardware/software.
They can and Microsoft can't? How's that? M$ has to pull out some parts of the OS because the laws, and NV can do anything because is their hardware/software? Don't think so!
Posted on Reply
#13
ShRoOmAlIsTiC
Wile E said:
Well, back on topic, the x64 patch doesn't seem to work with the latest WHQL drivers (191.07).
They work fine for me, Im using the ones from the front page today. Installed the drivers then installed the patch. Im using the 1.01 patch with weird gui. Worked no problem at all.
Posted on Reply
#14
pr0n Inspector
Proprietary this proprietary that, as if there're a lot of 'open' things in the GPU world. Some people probably think DirectX is an open standard. What fking bs.
Posted on Reply
#15
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
HellasVagabond said:
I would expect Legal Action by NVIDIA since it is their Technology so do not expect for this hack to survive long....Not to mention that Microsoft will certainly ban it from future updates....
People like W1zzard and Unwinder openly distributed pixel-shader unlocking soft-mods back in the GeForce 6 series/Radeon 9 days. NVIDIA/ATI didn't even fart. This hack will survive and flourish till NVIDIA finds a technical (and not legal) way around it. Then, GenL will have a new puzzle to solve.
Posted on Reply
#16
amschip
I don't understand it. Nvidia seems to try really hard to become the most hated company on the planet. They doing exactly tha same Apple does with their O/S. Well let them, but why they disabling PhysX PPU is beyond my comprehension. It's a separate product that suppose to work as a physics calculations support with any system.
As for ATI adopting PhysX, well good they didn't and are persuing open source path, becuse if they did everyone now would have to licence that darn thing.
Posted on Reply
#18
inferKNOX
TheMailMan78, I agree with you. It's important to just the hacker not everyone necessarily, so the sort of Troll comments like, "Why do ATi users care so much?" are redundant.

At least ATi is working an Open standard unlike nV. It'd really suck if everyone started releasing their own personal way of delivering physics. nVidia really didn't need to try and maintain exclusivity with PhysX because their GT200 and G80's did great in the market. Of course that's nV's only card to play now that the HD5xxx's are here, but that's beside the point.:p
Now I think OpenCL & DC are going to squash PhysX out because they're open + they don't have too many voices holding them back like OpenGL, which is the only significant danger with open initiatives such as this.

Just to be clear here, when putting the nVidia with an ATi card do you physically connect them together in a sort of Crossfire/SLI hybrid connection? If not how does it (physically) work exactly? Some pics would be nice. :)
Posted on Reply
#19
pr0n Inspector
OpenCL is open. OpenGL is open. Nothing with DirectX in its name is open. ATI has a closer relationship with Microsoft on the DirectX matters. And nVidia happens to have a history of providing great OpenGL support.
What the frak is wrong with people's memories these days?
Posted on Reply
#20
leonard_222003
This is to fanboy's , we complain about what Nvidia is doing because we can't spend our buck as good as it can be , we want something from both worlds , for example :
1. we want the perf. of Ati's video card but with all the eye candy ( like physx ) , we can't have it and we hate Nvidia , Nvidia sell's their performance more expensive
2. we want a future proof card from Nvidia (dx11 ) but they don't have one , yet
3. we can have a future proof card like 5850/5870 with a 9600GT for physx but again Nvidia doesn't want that
So you see fanboys of both worlds , we hate we can't spend our money wisely , if we go for the dx11 card we could miss out on physx ( rare and bad games but batman is nice ) , if we go for the old gt200 cards we lose on performance and DX11 , so what to choose ?
Now you can understand why some people hate Nvidia so much , they were set with an Nvidia card for physx and Ati's monster 5870 for dx11 , Nvidia is forcing us to buy from them even if they have low performing cards compared to ATI.
I bet the founder of Ageia Physx is kicking himself now for not asking for more money , look how important this has becomed in this war.
Even if people want to buy something from Nvidia now they don't have DX11 , they are less performing , consume more , we know perf. can't get any better than this ( been on the market for some time and drivers are mature ).
Posted on Reply
#21
KainXS
All nvidia is doing with physX now is turning it into a plague, it runs like shit on PC cpu's and only runs on their gpu's without hacks, and in the end that plague is going straight to developers into their brains, and its limiting them, because as a dev they are stuck in the balancing act of sales on one side they have to make money, on the other side, and the other side is innovation, but when half your users can't play the product its meant to be played it limits them in the end, and now more than ever we need a standardized physics platform similar to havok but something developers can use either at low cost or freely, and it dosen't need to be 90% accurate, at least it should be like 65%, who would want to play games that were too accurate, if games got too real, too accurate they start getting boring, its that little bit of impossiblilty that allows you to do things impossible in the real world, makes games fun.

I'm not really caring about the consumers right now even though its not right, I'm thinking of devs that are sitting at their desks talking to their bankers in this trap.
Posted on Reply
#22
InnocentCriminal
Resident Grammar Amender
Regeneration said:
You put a product on the shelves that meant to do a specific task/mission and advertise it. You list its minimum requirements on the box and on your website.

You can’t come up after a few months/years and introduce some new exaggerated restrictions via software updates that weren’t listed in the minimum requirements after a lot of people already bought this product.

This is absolutely illegal. Nvidia made a terrible mistake and opened its front door for lawsuits from its customers and its rivals. They will probably revert it and remove these restrictions - for their own good. .
Hmmm... Vista support for nForce 3 anyone? Code 43 ring any bells?

Main reason why I don't buy nVIDIA - and the fact the image quality (from my own experiences) is donkey balls compared to ATi.
Posted on Reply
#23
PP Mguire
leonard_222003 said:
This is to fanboy's , we complain about what Nvidia is doing because we can't spend our buck as good as it can be , we want something from both worlds , for example :
1. we want the perf. of Ati's video card but with all the eye candy ( like physx ) , we can't have it and we hate Nvidia , Nvidia sell's their performance more expensive
2. we want a future proof card from Nvidia (dx11 ) but they don't have one , yet
3. we can have a future proof card like 5850/5870 with a 9600GT for physx but again Nvidia doesn't want that
So you see fanboys of both worlds , we hate we can't spend our money wisely , if we go for the dx11 card we could miss out on physx ( rare and bad games but batman is nice ) , if we go for the old gt200 cards we lose on performance and DX11 , so what to choose ?
Now you can understand why some people hate Nvidia so much , they were set with an Nvidia card for physx and Ati's monster 5870 for dx11 , Nvidia is forcing us to buy from them even if they have low performing cards compared to ATI.
I bet the founder of Ageia Physx is kicking himself now for not asking for more money , look how important this has becomed in this war.
Even if people want to buy something from Nvidia now they don't have DX11 , they are less performing , consume more , we know perf. can't get any better than this ( been on the market for some time and drivers are mature ).
Nobody is forcing you to buy anything. And your post just proved mine, and a few others points. If PhysX is such crap then why are people wanting to get that extra NV card to use PhysX then huh? :roll:

And you pay the extra price for the extra performance. Its as simple as that. I see alot of bitching about Nvidia for nothing and alot of hate for nothing. The same kinda people will pay a grand for an Intel i7 Xtreme processor but will bitch about paying 100 extra bucks for a better performing Nvidia gpu. All the people complaining that have i7 CPUs in your case should just shut up because your all being hypocrits. If you wanna bitch over Nvidias +5 FPS then put an AMD rig in there and buy an ATI card since its cheaper for only ~5fps less.
Posted on Reply
#24
[I.R.A]_FBi
pr0n Inspector said:
Proprietary this proprietary that, as if there're a lot of 'open' things in the GPU world. Some people probably think DirectX is an open standard. What fking bs.
Its not open but it doesnt belong to any of the major players, the major difference
Posted on Reply
#25
CrackerJack
Would someone please show some test runs with this type of setup. I've been thinking about getting a 9600 GT, but only if it's really noticeable. So if someone will post a before and after picture that would be GREAT! And list specs :)
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