Thursday, June 16th 2016

MSI and ASUS Send VGA Review Samples with Higher Clocks than Retail Cards

MSI and ASUS have been sending us review samples for their graphics cards with higher clock speeds out of the box, than what consumers get out of the box. The cards TechPowerUp has been receiving run at a higher software-defined clock speed profile than what consumers get out of the box. Consumers have access to the higher clock speed profile, too, but only if they install a custom app by the companies, and enable that profile. This, we feel, is not 100% representative of retail cards, and is questionable tactics by the two companies. This BIOS tweaking could also open the door to more elaborate changes like a quieter fan profile or different power management.

MSI's factory-overclocked GeForce GTX 1080 Gaming X graphics card comes with three software-defined clock-speed profiles, beginning with the "Gaming Mode," which is what the card runs at, out of the box, the faster "OC mode," and the slower "Silent mode," which runs the card at reference clock speeds. To select between the modes, you're expected to install the MSI Gaming software from the driver DVD, and use that software to apply clock speeds of your desired mode. Turns out, that while the retail cards (the cards you find in the stores) run in "Gaming mode" out of the box, the review samples MSI has been sending out, run at "OC mode" out of the box. If the OC mode is how the card is intended to be used, then why make OC mode the default for reviewers only, and not your own customers?
Above, you see two GPU-Z screenshots, one of the TPU review sample, next to the retail board (provided by Nizzen). Flashing the retail BIOS onto our review sample changed the clocks to match exactly what is shown on the GPU-Z retail screenshot.

In case of the GTX 1080 Gaming X, the "Gaming mode" runs the card at 1683 MHz core and 1822 MHz GPU Boost; and the "OC mode" runs it at 1708 MHz core and 1847 MHz GPU Boost. The cards consumers buy will run in the "Gaming mode" out of the box, which presumably is the default factory-overclock of these cards, since they're branded under the "Gaming series."
The "OC Mode" is just there so consumers can overclock it a little further at the push of a button, without having any knowledge of overclocking. Now if the OC mode is enabled for review samples of one company and not for the others, this means that potential customers comparing reviews will think one card performs better than the other, even if it's just 1%, people do base their buying decision on such small differences.

With the case of the GTX 1080 at hand, we started looking back at our previous reviews and were shocked to realize that this practice has been going on for years in MSI's case. It looks like ASUS has just adopted it, probably because their competitor does it, too, "so it must be ok."
It's also interesting to see that not all cards are affected, whether this is elaborate or by accident is unknown.

While we don't have any statements of the companies yet, the most likely explanation is that reviewers usually don't install any software bundled with the graphics card, yet the companies want the cards to be tested in OC mode, which provides higher performance numbers, beating their competitors. That's probably how this whole thing started, nobody noticed and the practice became standard for reviews moving forward.

This issue could affect upcoming custom GeForce GTX 1070 review samples too, we will be on the lookout.
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162 Comments on MSI and ASUS Send VGA Review Samples with Higher Clocks than Retail Cards

#76
Prima.Vera
Guys relax. This is not a pissing competition. Both sites found out about the same time and they post it. Is not like secret info who post first gets the cookie!
As I said, MSI was doing this since 780 days also, so no big surprise here...
Posted on Reply
#77
bug
Sam008MSI gaming app does give us features like display settings for movie, gaming & eyerest mode.

The new ones get leds control with them but using afterburner is better because whenever i run gaming app it makes the clocks for my r9 270x go to 1050/1400 (silent mode) by default & when i close it my idle clock is 300/300 not 300/150.

I oced my card to 1200/1500 with afterburner & there is no option for us to run custom profiles from gaming app.

So yes avoid that software & use afterburner.
I buy Nvidia because of their Linux support. Which of MSI's application run on Linux?
Posted on Reply
#78
Sam008
bugI buy Nvidia because of their Linux support. Which of MSI's application run on Linux?
MSI Gaming App & others are Windows-only.
Posted on Reply
#79
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
bugI buy Nvidia because of their Linux support. Which of MSI's application run on Linux?

I think Linus Torvalds would like to have a word with you. :) Pretty sure I can manually set any clocks I want by using aticonfig on the command line without any hassle.

I just find it funny how TPU just decided to whine about this now when my 390 GAMING works the same exact way.

Video of Torvalds publicly telling nVidia, "f**k you."
Posted on Reply
#80
vega22
Aquinus
I think Linus Torvalds would like to have a word with you. :) Pretty sure I can manually set any clocks I want by using aticonfig on the command line without any hassle.

I just find it funny how TPU just decided to whine about this now when my 390 GAMING works the same exact way.

Video of Torvalds publicly telling nVidia, "f**k you."
this is not the 1st time tpu has shown this to be the case.

i am sure i read other reviews in the past stating they had review versions but didn't release reviews till they had checked the retail cards matched.
Posted on Reply
#81
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
vega22this is not the 1st time tpu has shown this to be the case.

i am sure i read other reviews in the past stating they had review versions but didn't release reviews till they had checked the retail cards matched.
In reviews, sure but, this is coming out and pointing it out directly. I'm just curious why it become worthy of a dedicated news article now and not before.
Posted on Reply
#82
bug
Aquinus
I think Linus Torvalds would like to have a word with you. :) Pretty sure I can manually set any clocks I want by using aticonfig on the command line without any hassle.

I just find it funny how TPU just decided to whine about this now when my 390 GAMING works the same exact way.

Video of Torvalds publicly telling nVidia, "f**k you."
Linus is pissed about the open source support (and he's probably right). But if you want to get stuff done on Linux, Nvidia is still the only choice.
Posted on Reply
#83
vega22
AquinusIn reviews, sure but, this is coming out and pointing it out directly. I'm just curious why it become worthy of a dedicated news article now and not before.
because bt secretly hates tpu and keeps telling the truth about amd, nvidia, msi and now asus and not just pushing out page after page of pr bumf?

the fake nature of the whole review system is something most people choose not to talk about. how many reviewers turn round and say the things they were given, for free, before they became available to buy were shit? not many will tell the truth for risk of rocking the boat regardless of the product.

the fact that anybody is willing to hold the system up to the light is commendable imo.
Posted on Reply
#84
rtwjunkie
PC Gaming Enthusiast
danbert2000Okay, I understand why this is an issue of honesty and that it's annoying that MSI makes you install their gaming application to enable the listed clock rates.
This has confused me. I don't install the Gaming app, only Afterburner, with my MSI cards. Without the gaming app, the card defaults to the "Gaming" default, which is the middle set of speeds between Silent and OC. I'm still able to overclock up to the OC listed speeds and beyond. So I'm not sure what the issue is.

In Summary: There is zero need to install the Gaming app to hit any of the listed speeds.
Posted on Reply
#85
T8RR8R
Asus lies, but has never failed on me while MSI has. I'd never own an XFX product for many reasons, EVGA only makes good graphics cards these days and I hear Gigabyte nightmares all the time. So what's a guy to do anymore?
Posted on Reply
#88
BiggieShady
T8RR8RAsus lies, but has never failed on me while MSI has. I'd never own an XFX product for many reasons, EVGA only makes good graphics cards these days and I hear Gigabyte nightmares all the time. So what's a guy to do anymore?
You are left with Palit/Gainward, not the bad choice I might add
Posted on Reply
#89
ShurikN
BiggieShadyYou are left with Palit/Gainward, not the bad choice I might add
Plus Saphire and Powercolor for AMD
Posted on Reply
#90
Dethroy
ShurikNPlus Saphire and Powercolor for AMD
I wish Sapphire made Nvidia cards as well.
Posted on Reply
#91
Flow
rtwjunkieThis has confused me. I don't install the Gaming app, only Afterburner, with my MSI cards. Without the gaming app, the card defaults to the "Gaming" default, which is the middle set of speeds between Silent and OC. I'm still able to overclock up to the OC listed speeds and beyond. So I'm not sure what the issue is.

In Summary: There is zero need to install the Gaming app to hit any of the listed speeds.
The difference is in the cards bios. The review sample has a modified bios, which should not be the case in the first place.
And since the review sample can run the oc mode by default already, then why not the consumers cards also?

In any case, a review should show what a product can do, therefor it needs to be exactly the same as the retail product.

ps I don't use the gaming app either.
Posted on Reply
#92
cadaveca
My name is Dave
FlowAnd since the review sample can run the oc mode by default already, then why not the consumers cards also?
Consumer cards can too?

All you need to do is go to our BIOS database and download the BIOS from the review card, flash it, and you'll have the same thing. That applies to both the ASUS and MSI cards, and pretty much every single card every reviewed here on TPU.
Posted on Reply
#93
dj-electric
DethroyI wish Sapphire made Nvidia cards as well.
It does. They are called ZOTAC.
(PCPartner company)
Posted on Reply
#94
GC_PaNzerFIN
And Zotac does make very decent cards even at lower cost. Usually their AMP Extreme cards are as cheap or even cheaper than basic AIB models from other vendors. Certainly worth thinking about.
Posted on Reply
#95
jaggerwild
I can hear them prices falling more n more............:nutkick:
Posted on Reply
#96
Vayra86
Asus actually admitting they do their thinking for the reviewers already... the world is going to shit.

They don't even see what's wrong with it, they just admit and provide argumentation with it. Wow. It's like they're saying, hey stupid consumer, listen, we know what's best for you. Now shut up and buy PLS, you think too much.
Posted on Reply
#97
najiro
MxPhenom 216Its 30mhz. Any user that has 2 brain cells and knows how to change a slider in Afterburner can get that clock.
Apparently you are CLUELESS about review standards.
Posted on Reply
#98
MxPhenom 216
ASIC Engineer
najiroApparently you are CLUELESS about review standards.
Or i dont care about stupid shit like this.

Ill still happily get an MSI gaming 1070. I wont use their gaming app, but instead afterburner and set my own clocks and profiles.

While everyone is crying about this stuff, ill be playing games and enjoying every second of it.
Posted on Reply
#99
najiro
@MxPhenom 216

Well, this is something I do not expect average users to understand. Either way, MSI and ASUS GTX 1080/1070 will be just as good as the others but the proven fact (which they already admit by now) that:

Sample Cards ≠ Retail Cards

means
1) false advertising
2) elaborate setup to fool users/reviews

Look, its all about competition. Competing for the pole position is the objective of all brands. They'd do everything to achieve that... I mean EVERYTHING. Of course, being the best-performing GTX 1080/1070 will always add appeal and increase demand, this is what this is in my opinion.
Posted on Reply
#100
moproblems99
Just figured I would chime in and say that you are assuming people only care about the stock performance of graphics cards. That carries about as much weight with most people as the stock performance of a car, truck, or bike. You are correct in that the average user don't understand the capabilities of cards. But those same users also don't get online and read reviews either. They run down to the local shop and ask what should I buy? They will get told the trendy answer.
Posted on Reply
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