Friday, February 10th 2017

On Intel and Their $7B White House Affair

By now, we've all seen, or at least heard, about Intel CEO's Brian Kraznich Fab 42 announcement (done from the Oval Office, no less). It was to be a joint press conference to announce a highly impactful investment on U.S. soil, which also turned into some welcome PR for Intel, and got the CEO some face time with the President.

It has to be said though, that hailing this as a Trump administration win is simply politics doing its best: spinning the truth for its own benefit. I say this because the original announcement for the construction of this Arizona fab was done way back in 2011, with then Intel CEO Paul Otellini breaking the news that they would spend $5 billion on the plant during the Obama Administration. Construction started that year, with overall expectation for its completion being somewhere around 2013. Cue the usual delays, and enter 2013's 10% decline of the PC market, and Intel did what any sensible company would do in the wake of lower expected volume of shipments (and respectively lower production needs) - they postponed the opening of the factory, indefinitely, instead choosing to improve manufacturing capability of its then already-operational fabs. So, the factory wasn't announced because of President Trump's policies and overall government acumen, nor is it probably going to be finished by the time his first term ends.
Krzanich didn't make this announcement because the "tax and regulatory policies" of the Trump administration are "advantageous". Kraznich did it in a show of force and open support for President Trump (as Kraznich has a past of doing), and if there's one thing we know of Intel (and every other major corporation focused on profit) is that everything happens for the bottom-line. The question of "why now" isn't answered with "because of President Trump's policies". It's answered by Krzanich's internal memo to Intel employees: because growing demand means Intel must increase production capacity. A sign of the times is the fact that the Arizona fab was originally projected to push Intel's 14 nm manufacturing capability, but has now been re-purposed as an accelerator towards Intel's 7 nm aspirations.

Although it has to be said, as President Trump himself would, that Arizona workers will be very happy: 10,000 jobs is a whole big number - full of zeroes. Arizona is second only to Nevada in overall population growth rate, and job creation is one of the most important economic growth factors. Though that's not the real number of workers: that's the best-case scenario. The real number of direct jobs to be created by this investment is around 3,000, with up to 10,000 jobs being created "in support" of the factory, as Kraznich himself put it (such as new businesses opening to support the infrastructure and the increased number of employed workers).

In fact, President Trump's administration hasn't even made a concrete, thought-out move towards tax breaks on American companies, though he did promise a 15% reduction in taxes while campaigning. So far, the only thing they've done on that camp is freezing new and outstanding regulations to fall into place, as well as adopting a purely "less is better" approach to tax regulation: for every new tax regulation, cut two previously existing ones".

Now personally, I find it to be extremely disconcerting that President Trump's administration has the most clearly-defined trend of donations having bought top spots in the Trump administration, in what can be called influence peddling, even avoiding such boresome proceedings as ethic reviews for conflicts of interest.

All in all, I just think these are way too many coincidences to be just that. It seems simply as just yet another pivot, another case of one hand washes the other in the cutthroat world of corporate interests and political favor, of chess played (and paid) with billions. Let's face the proverbial elephant in the oval office: Intel's announcement is a complete farce, being indicative of an unhealthy balance of powers between those that be at the White House and corporate interests.

I understand how negative all of this sounds. But every case must be considered as-is, and this one simply isn't. There are healthy, transparent, strengthening bonds that a government can have with the corporations that are the lifeblood of its economic development, which positively impact the every-man's life. Tax cuts may be one of them, by increasing the amount of leeway a company can have on its own internal investment, R&D, increased employment and better conditions for its workforce. Government subsidies, which propel promising startups which then grow on to provide new, competitive businesses and thus reinforce the economy - of which Intel has received at least $5.9 billion dollars itself, from tax rebates to federal grants, including almost $100 million in property tax immunities (while AMD itself has received only about $11 million). Another good example is how governments supported what were, at their infancy, extremely low-margin business (like the solar panel and renewable energies companies), eventually ushering us all into developments that will only improve the quality of life for us and our children.

There are ways of doing things; both President Trump and Kraznich may even know how to do them, and have certainly done some of them before.

But then, then there are ways of how not to do things.
Add your own comment

199 Comments on On Intel and Their $7B White House Affair

#151
Rockarola
dalekdukesboy said:
NO! That's exactly the point you putz, this is TPU NOT politics I was practically born political so your "new" snide comment is not only wrong but totally irrelevant...No chill needed, we are pointing out blatant hypocrisy and double standards and simply won't take this crap any longer. Nor will the country at large that's why we are here talking about President Trump....HOWEVER our point early on in this whole article is how TPU is going blatantly political in multiple stories including this one after 8 years of not a boo mentioned of now thankfully former President Barack Hussein Obama. If this is now a political site just say so, if not, we shouldn't have polls and stories specifically giving opinions on the current president.
Why so hostile? If you can't handle to have your ideology challenged, you might want to keep it to yourself.
I live in a social-democratic monarchy, challenging ideologies is part of our childhood, not a reason to scream at people.
I am a fiscally conservative social Democrat, my significant other is a communist and my best friend is a conservative libertarian, and we get along just fine...try to do the same, screaming at people will just increase the divide.
Posted on Reply
#152
siluro818
Rockarola said:
Why so hostile? If you can't handle to have your ideology challenged, you might want to keep it to yourself.
I live in a social-democratic monarchy, challenging ideologies is part of our childhood, not a reason to scream at people.
I am a fiscally conservative social Democrat, my significant other is a communist and my best friend is a conservative libertarian, and we get along just fine...try to do the same, screaming at people will just increase the divide.
This person is useless. I wouldn't even care to answer to them ^^
Posted on Reply
#153
Mark Little
I completely support TPU and their editorial freedom. Please do not let those who condemn open discourse dissuade you from posting similar editorials in the future.

I love this site and I enjoy all content that is presented in such a thoughtful way.

Signed,
Mark Little
(I sign my name as I am not afraid to listen and understand the world without hiding behind aliases)
Posted on Reply
#155
dalekdukesboy
evernessince said:
It's always funny when Trump supporters come to whine about people whining. Even though this article isn't "whining" about anything, it simply points out the fact that Intel has promised the exact same thing to Obama and failed. Oh, but sorry. I'm whining too much, I should use your alternate facts.
Seriously? You sarcastically whine and hiss through this answer snowflake, smh.

TheMailMan78 said:
I can give you a dozen other times its happened with the left before Bush. But, that's a "tit for tat" argument. I just don't see a point in that. Obama birthed the Tea Party movement. Liberals I don't think were ever as mad at Bush as conservatives were at Obama. This country is in a serious divide right now and I think its going to keep getting worse. Trump didn't win because people liked Obama or his policies. Trump won as a big FU to the Washington establishment. People are sick of Washington. So as bad as Trump seems, to at least 50% of the country he's better than the status quo.

Despite my avatar my personal opinion is he's to much of a populist. He is more of an FDR type than my liking. I'm way more of a Ron Paul kind of guy.
This, I am more Trumpian than you but I didn't start that way, at all, and I'm still watching his every move with caution and expecting mistakes especially since unlike Hillary/Barack etc he never was a politician, yet beat a career one to become President of U.S.A most powerful man in the world...that by itself should cause pause in liberals and anti-trump folks but doubt you ever will learn the lessons of this election cycle and look in the mirror and realize your problem is you and your leaders who are losing.

diatribe said:
A lot of people responding here need to take a huge chill pill. This wasn't an article knocking on our glorious leader. It was a pretty important fact that an Intel exec deemed it necessary to make a white house appearance. It happened and it's interesting. The fact that other industries haven't been mentioned makes perfect sense due to this being a tech site. Everything is not "us" versus "them"; we are all on the same team here.
It is "us" vs "them"/"you" however you want to phrase it because crap editorials like this that are so biased and not even properly labeled as such from the start are designed to cause "us" vs. "them." Also I shall again point out this DIDN'T happen under Obama because of economic circumstances and DID happen under Trump in the CEO's own words because of what Trump is doing and promised to do with economic policy...how can you even blatantly lie saying Trump has nothing to do with it and even try to pat Obama on back because it started under his tenure yet appears it will happen under Trump? How backwards can you bend to make the narrative fit your lib ideology?

rtwjunkie said:
You know it's not though. This wasn't the staff's first foray into political opinion.
Bad move....

rtwjunkie said:
Hmmm, you're correct, I think. I can't find another one. I guess I'm a little fuzzy due to the bringing of politics into every other thread, (even when totally tech-themed thread) over the last year by members. It's getting ridiculous.
...this is why lol. Nice try but yeah any political mention of anything has been from us the commenters and never in headline or article.

renosablast said:
One inconvenient truth is that Obama did much to wreck the US economy and jobs market. Much of what the
new administration is doing is much needed "damage control" and/or "damage mitigation" to try and get the US and its economy and jobs market back on track. Intel's decision to suspend operations at that fab facility was no doubt a combination of what was a shrinking market as well as the outlook of trying to do business in an ever-more-troublesome-and-expensive business climate. Give the new guys a chance and let the results prove them right or wrong before we go looking for boogeymen behind every "deal".
Here you are folks, this is exactly why this "editorial" and how it is phrased is a hack job, and yes he has right to his "opinion" but it's not good writing on any level because it was a very obvious hit job to Trump and perhaps Intel even and even tries to somehow give Obama credit for this when if anything his failure to do anything positive for the tech industry is exactly why this is happening now under Trump.
Posted on Reply
#156
TheMailMan78
Big Member
Mark Little said:
I completely support TPU and their editorial freedom. Please do not let those who condemn open discourse dissuade you from posting similar editorials in the future.

I love this site and I enjoy all content that is presented in such a thoughtful way.

Signed,
Mark Little
(I sign my name as I am not afraid to listen and understand the world without hiding behind aliases)
Little do I care?
Posted on Reply
#157
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Intel may have postponed investment in Arizona because of all the problems Intel is having with 10nm. Why ramp up production for 7nm when 10nm is a disaster? This could be as much about Intel writing off 10nm (like TSMC writing off 20-22nm) as it is investing in 7nm.

Intel's stock went up about 10% since election day so investing that surge in 7nm seems like a no-brainer.

Altogether it was a happy coincidence for both sides (American jobs for Trump and cheap advertising for Intel).
Posted on Reply
#158
TheMailMan78
Big Member
FordGT90Concept said:
Intel may have postponed investment in Arizona because of all the problems Intel is having with 10nm. Why ramp up production for 7nm when 10nm is a disaster? This could be as much about Intel writing off 10nm (like TSMC writing off 20-22nm) as it is investing in 7nm.

Stocks surging post election probably made the decision to swing for 7nm a no-brainer too. Intel had capital to invest (stocks went up about 10% since election day).
Impossible. Stock Market was supposed to crash when Trump was elected. The polls must have been hacked by the those pesky Russians again........wait that's impossible also. Obama told Romney "The 1980's called. They want their foreign policy back." when Romney told Obama, Russia is Americas largest geopolitical foe. Stupid republicans are so out of touch. Everyone knows Hillary should have won. Right? Isn't that what I should believe? I wanna be cool and included. TELL ME WHAT I SHOULD THINK! IM SCARED! HOLD ME!
Posted on Reply
#159
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
That is pretty funny because US relations with Russia hit a new low during the second term of the Obama administration. So low, a revival of the "Cold War" was tossed around in the press.

Romney was right about a lot of things. His problem was that inconvenient truths (e.g. that 47% of the population will never vote for Romney) are politically incorrect. And look what that got us four years later: the most politically incorrect president in US, nay, world history! :roll:
Posted on Reply
#160
dalekdukesboy
TheMailMan78 said:
Impossible. Stock Market was supposed to crash when Trump was elected. The polls must have been hacked by the those pesky Russians again........wait that's impossible also. Obama told Romney "The 1980's called. They want their foreign policy back." when Romney told Obama, Russia is Americas largest geopolitical foe. Stupid republicans are so out of touch. Everyone knows Hillary should have won. Right? Isn't that what I should believe? I wanna be cool and included. TELL ME WHAT I SHOULD THINK! IM SCARED! HOLD ME!
hahaha! That is too rich, I tried to take point by point what people said but this funny approach is much more to the point, funny, and factual...bravo. This is basic idea I was getting at with all the libtards on here defending this hit piece, this literally is how they feel/think (oxymoron) and probably after us hitting back on this thread probably are looking for their play-doh, safe spaces/rooms, hot cocoa, and their therapy puppies.

FordGT90Concept said:
That is pretty funny because US relations with Russia hit a new low during the second term of the Obama administration. So low, a revival of the "Cold War" was tossed around in the press.

Romney was right about a lot of things. His problem was that inconvenient truths (e.g. that 47% of the population will never vote for Romney) are politically incorrect. And look what that got us four years latter: the most politically incorrect president in US, nay, world history! :roll:
I literally was going to ask the moderators if I could just quote and correct about 20+statements on here I thought were just pure crap so I didn't get warned for thread hijacking or who knows what....but last few responses as well as many in between basically do that masterfully and the "crap" basically speaks for itself in comparison.

Good points, short term over a few years Obama won it seemed, but whole party lost...and now they got a president they can't handle and has no political ties and zero political correctness...hence why they are in literal meltdown, panic, and all out destroy-everything-in-their-path-AKA Berkeley college-riot loot and burn mode.

R-T-B said:
It was. I think his point is more that you and others here need to deal with it and take a serious chill pill. This is politics, are you new to them or something?

I mean, for all trump supporters seem to think liberals get "TRIGGERED" they seem to be the most triggerable of anyone I've seen yet, frankly.

Let me break it down for you:

Rule 1.) Opposite ends don't always show each other complete respect. This is just how it works. Both sides are guilty. It isn't a "liberal disease."



Please don't confuse liberals with political assholes.

I'm a liberal, and I'd be happy to make a list for you of 10 things I think a conservative leader did right, followed by 10 things I disagree with the liberals on and think they screwed up big time.

It won't take long, but I'm not just going to do it for kicks. I want to build a bridge here, so let's try something: If I do it, you have to do the same, only for your parties.



I've worked in a newspaper and was a runner up to Raevenlord's position (@W1zzard can corroborate this if you really need it). I have no doubts I know a lot more about journalism ethics than you. There was nothing wrong or inherently "fake" (love how Trumps twitter memes are bleeding into here) about this clearly marked editorial piece, which changes the rules quite a bit with regards to what's fair to say. If it's an editorial, you can literally call a Trump a turd, and as long as you admit that's your opinion, sorry dude, slander it is not.
R-T-B said:
No, editorials are not, but since when are personal opinions based on facts? Please reread how I phrased my response. It was intentional. If you say something is your opinion, it instantly becomes yours alone and is pretty immune to slander claims, which is what I was responding to.

Calling "Trump a turd" was a bit of a exageration to show how far you can go when stating an opinion without it being slander. I was not defending that as good journalism, mind you.




Editorials do not necessarily, and everything I've been taught indicates that editorials are precisely for expression of opinions within the bounds that it's not misleading or outright lying, which did not occur here. No violation here occurred as nowhere did I see a genuine desire to mislead, or intentional distortion of the facts.

Try again.
Arrogance and condescension much? First off, my humble opinion it's tough to separate liberals from political assholes generally, the two are sadly rarely mutually exclusive and more like mutually inclusive:), or mutually concordant if you want a proper antonym. Second "let me break it down for you" such arrogance is seldom shown from someone confident of their position and words. Also I agree a lack of respect isn't exclusive to liberals as a "liberal disease", but I do think "liberalism disease" would be much more accurate using only those two words with no prepositions etc.

Then saying you worked at a newspaper, and runner up to this OP then saying you know more than everyone about journalism ethics is more self aggrandizing while talking down to those who disagree...why not leave that shit out and just make your case not tell us how you know all that we don't?

That is my point here, it isn't JUST that I think you're wrong, it's you are doing it in a pompous manner while making snide remarks...like stupidly asking me something like "Are you new to politics?", or "You do realize Intel is a tech company no? " etc. I really don't care if you or anyone shits on me or gets sarcastic, all good, but no offense that is childish and just unintelligent and only detract from what you are trying to say...capiche?

Also it's "exaggeration" not "exageration" as you said, and "triggerable" isn't a word though I'm sure you realized that and just used it to make a point. However my point is as you claim you are the resident self-appointed guru of all things journalism and those who argue with you automatically know less than you, and as you make grammatical mistakes as well as other journalistic malpractices while talking down to all of us implied dunces is fairly delicious irony.

I make plenty of mistakes, I make argumental faux pas and "gasp" I misspeak, and I never claimed I was smarter than you or know all things journalism and English language...that's how you are presenting yourself in your words, tone and argument.

siluro818 said:
This person is useless. I wouldn't even care to answer to them ^^
Looking in a mirror perhaps? I thanked this response because it was humorous I'm sure you meant to call me useless but your ability to use English is such shit you weren't even clear and by quoting Rockarola and saying "this" person is useless etc you don't even clearly distinguish who you mean.
Posted on Reply
#161
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
R-T-B said:
If it's an editorial, you can literally call a Trump a turd, and as long as you admit that's your opinion, sorry dude, slander it is not.

Labeling an article as commentary, opinion, nor editorial excuses the application of good journalistic ethics. Case in point: think of how making such a statement would reflect on TechPowerUp.

An editorial caused a massive exodus of users (including me) and moderators from Hardware Analysis.

dalekdukesboy said:
..."triggerable" isn't a word...

It is and is pretty common in programming (Source Engine example). That said, Oxford English redirects to "triggering" and Merriam-Webster does not consider it a word.
Posted on Reply
#162
dalekdukesboy
Stand corrected, however was right about the rest:) Hey said I made mistakes...triggerable shows up as misspelled here and in many places I looked it showed up as incorrect...actually it only shows up as a word on "wiktionary" so not sure it is valid, regardless it wasn't crux of my argument. The rest however...was.
Posted on Reply
#163
R-T-B
Labeling an article as commentary, opinion, nor editorial excuses the application of good journalistic ethics. Case in point: think of how making such a statement would reflect on TechPowerUp.

An editorial caused a massive exodus of users (including me) and moderators from Hardware Analysis.
Correct. However, I said nothing about journalistic ethics, I said it would not be slander. Slander is quite a different animal.
Second "let me break it down for you" such arrogance is seldom shown from someone confident of their position and words.
You know what they say about assumptions...
However my point is as you claim you are the resident self-appointed guru of all things journalism and those who argue with you automatically know less than you, and as you make grammatical mistakes as well as other journalistic malpractices while talking down to all of us implied dunces is fairly delicious irony.
I wasn't writing a journalistic article, and I'm only human so mistakes are made, but I did not subject my statements to review like I normally would. Frankly, to claim I need to use a fine toothed comb like that here is foolish.
Posted on Reply
#164
dalekdukesboy
R-T-B said:
Correct. However, I said nothing about journalistic ethics, I said it would not be slander. Slander is quite a different animal.



You know what they say about assumptions...



I wasn't writing a journalistic article, and I'm only human so mistakes are made, but I did not subject my statements to review like I normally would. Frankly, to claim I need to use a fine toothed comb like that here is foolish.
I don't believe I am "assuming" it's me interpreting and analyzing your speech/writing patterns over time...big difference. Also I wasn't implying the fine toothed comb is needed for off the cuff remarks and tit for tat replies on a forum, what I AM saying is you puffed your chest out and showed an attitude of brusqueness, braggadocio and condescension as you ironically made errors in that very statement you were making. You can't say it isn't an article I don't proofread comments, while in the very comments you brag how much you know all things journalism and writing as you make basic errors and I would argue varying degrees of debating and logic errors. By the way I complimented you on your first article ironically shortly after my reply here, just so happened to see it seconds after last posts here, credit where credit is due and glad TPU gave you the opportunity to post...so 'grats on that!

FordGT90Concept said:

Labeling an article as commentary, opinion, nor editorial excuses the application of good journalistic ethics. Case in point: think of how making such a statement would reflect on TechPowerUp.

An editorial caused a massive exodus of users (including me) and moderators from Hardware Analysis.



It is and is pretty common in programming (Source Engine example). That said, Oxford English redirects to "triggering" and Merriam-Webster does not consider it a word.
Yep, thanks for the nod...I saw your example when I looked it up listing it but saw Oxford and Merriam had it unlisted etc so I decided it either wasn't a word or was at best maybe an acceptable slang or urban dictionary-type word.
Posted on Reply
#165
R-T-B
dalekdukesboy said:
I don't believe I am "assuming" it's me interpreting and analyzing your speech/writing patterns over time...big difference. Also I wasn't implying the fine toothed comb is needed for off the cuff remarks and tit for tat replies on a forum, what I AM saying is you puffed your chest out and showed an attitude of brusqueness, braggadocio and condescension as you ironically made errors in that very statement you were making. You can't say it isn't an article I don't proofread comments, while in the very comments you brag how much you know all things journalism and writing as you make basic errors and I would argue varying degrees of debating and logic errors. By the way I complimented you on your first article ironically shortly after my reply here, just so happened to see it seconds after last posts here, credit where credit is due and glad TPU gave you the opportunity to post...so 'grats on that!
Journalistic knowledge is not a perfection pass. I still double space my periods in all my posts out here. W1zzard tells me that got phased out with typewriters, fact is my news posts would still have it were it not for notepad find/replace. Spell check is also a journalists best friend, we aren't walking dictionaries.

At any rate, we all should admit we got a bit aggressive in writing style here. I think that's a big problem with american politics in general right now. I won't deny I did it, as it happens. Fact is, a good portion of americans (lol here come my stereotypes) have a bit of a way of thinking "I'm right and everyone else can suck it." It's something I'd argue we all need to work on as a nation. Can we agree on that note? ;)

PS: I don't know more than anyone here about all things journalism. Many here, Raevenlord included, likely know more than my skillset. But I do know more than someone who hasn't worked in the field, I'd wager.
Posted on Reply
#166
TheMailMan78
Big Member
Why is this thread still going? It was a crap thread to begin with and it hasn't gotten any better. If this were anywhere else on the forums the mods would have lock this crap down already. Reminds me of my drunken "Ebola and you" thread a few years back where I pondered ending the out break with a thermo-nuclear weapon.

Mods lock this thing up already. Please! Remember this one?!

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/ebola-and-you.205451/

If this is left open I want my discussion of nuking west Africa back open. Its about as a legitimate as this crap.
Posted on Reply
#167
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
I'm looking back at the original article and, I don't understand why an editorial is even necessary. I mean, the facts pretty much speak for themselves; no commentary is necessary.
Raevenlord said:
By now, we've all seen, or at least heard, about Intel CEO's Brian Kraznich Fab 42 announcement (done from the Oval Office, no less). It was to be a joint press conference to announce a highly impactful investment on U.S. soil, which also turned into some welcome PR for Intel, and got the CEO some face time with the President.

It has to be said though, that hailing this as a Trump administration win is simply politics doing its best: spinning the truth for its own benefit. I say this because the original announcement for the construction of this Arizona fab was done way back in 2011, with then Intel CEO Paul Otellini breaking the news that they would spend $5 billion on the plant during the Obama Administration. Construction started that year, with overall expectation for its completion being somewhere around 2013. Cue the usual delays, and enter 2013's 10% decline of the PC market, and Intel did what any sensible company would do in the wake of lower expected volume of shipments (and respectively lower production needs) - they postponed the opening of the factory, indefinitely, instead choosing to improve manufacturing capability of its then already-operational fabs. So, the factory wasn't announced because of President Trump's policies and overall government acumen, nor is it probably going to be finished by the time his first term ends.



[---]

Krzanich didn't make this announcement because the "tax and regulatory policies" of the Trump administration are "advantageous". Kraznich did it in a show of force and open support for President Trump (as Kraznich has a past of doing), and if there's one thing we know of Intel (and every other major corporation focused on profit) is that everything happens for the bottom-line. The question of "why now" isn't answered with "because of President Trump's policies". It's answered by Krzanich's internal memo to Intel employees: because growing demand means Intel must increase production capacity. A sign of the times is the fact that the Arizona fab was originally projected to push Intel's 14 nm manufacturing capability, but has now been re-purposed as an accelerator towards Intel's 7 nm aspirations.

Although it has to be said, as President Trump himself would, that Arizona workers will be very happy: 10,000 jobs is a whole big number - full of zeroes. Arizona is second only to Nevada in overall population growth rate, and job creation is one of the most important economic growth factors. Though that's not the real number of workers: that's the best-case scenario. The real number of direct jobs to be created by this investment is around 3,000, with up to 10,000 jobs being created "in support" of the factory, as Kraznich himself put it (such as new businesses opening to support the infrastructure and the increased number of employed workers).

In fact, President Trump's administration hasn't even made a concrete, thought-out move towards tax breaks on American companies, though he did promise a 15% reduction in taxes while campaigning. So far, the only thing they've done on that camp is freezing new and outstanding regulations to fall into place, as well as adopting a purely "less is better" approach to tax regulation: for every new tax regulation, cut two previously existing ones".
And scene. This is where the facts end and the opinion picks up. I think this should have been published (minus the striked through text) as non-editorial. The rest should have been published separately as an editorial (assuming TPU should get in that business and I would say no). Even though it happened in the oval office, it is still pretty big tech news (Intel finishing a 7nm fab in Arizona).

Raevenlord said:
Tax cuts may be one of them, by increasing the amount of leeway a company can have on its own internal investment, R&D, increased employment and better conditions for its workforce.
That is next on Trump's agenda:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/latest-trump-news-today-february-16-2017/
The president met with retailers to talk about the challenges facing them. He told them he’s cutting regulations “by massive amounts” and “in just about every industry.” He also mentioned a plan to change the tax code would be coming soon.

“We’re doing a massive tax plan that is coming along really well,” he told the retailers. “It will be submitted in the not too distant future. It will be not only good and simpler, it will be, you’re talking about big numbers of savings.” And, he added that he planned to lower rates “very, very substantially for virtually everybody in every category. Including personal and business.”
The guy has seriously been in office just a month. Congress moves at Congress' pace. Trump is also not a legislature so authoring big

Raevenlord said:
...extremely low-margin business (like the solar panel and renewable energies companies), eventually ushering us all into developments that will only improve the quality of life for us and our children.
Remember Soyndra? The problem with subsidies is they require good government management and oversight. The government isn't good at managing anything except Congress' own compensation rates (not good for taxpayers, mind you). Look at the stock markets around the world. That is investment personified: private investment. Tesla, Google, Apple have done great because investors are confident their products will do well. There's also angel funds and the like where if you have a good idea, a private investor may bet on you succeeding. Because of the bipartisan JOBS Act, unaccredited investors can now invest as well and startups like Fig are leading the charge.

TL;DR: The role of government is safety nets for its citizens, not corporate welfare (a populist note Trump and Sanders were playing).

That said, there are projects government needs to invest in because the risks are too great for private research. Examples include the Manhattan Project and Apollo program. We could really use a massive government R&D investment into fusion energy.
Posted on Reply
#168
R-T-B
TheMailMan78 said:
Why is this thread still going? It was a crap thread to begin with and it hasn't gotten any better. If this were anywhere else on the forums the mods would have lock this crap down already. Reminds me of my drunken "Ebola and you" thread a few years back where I pondered ending the out break with a thermo-nuclear weapon.

Mods lock this thing up already. Please! Remember this one?!

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/ebola-and-you.205451/

If this is left open I want my discussion of nuking west Africa back open. Its about as a legitimate as this crap.
I don't know, I thought we were getting somewhere...
Posted on Reply
#169
Xzibit
R-T-B said:
Journalistic knowledge is not a perfection pass. I still double space my periods in all my posts out here. W1zzard tells me that got phased out with typewriters, fact is my news posts would still have it were it not for notepad find/replace. Spell check is also a journalists best friend, we aren't walking dictionaries.

At any rate, we all should admit we got a bit aggressive in writing style here. I think that's a big problem with american politics in general right now. I won't deny I did it, as it happens. Fact is, a good portion of americans (lol here come my stereotypes) have a bit of a way of thinking "I'm right and everyone else can suck it." It's something I'd argue we all need to work on as a nation. Can we agree on that note? ;)

PS: I don't know more than anyone here about all things journalism. Many here, Raevenlord included, likely know more than my skillset. But I do know more than someone who hasn't worked in the field, I'd wager.
A good portion of americans ? Have you read the replies here not all of them are from Americans. Not even the author of the article according to TPU Ravenlord isnt in the USA hes in Portugal. TPU has always had members from around the world and I don't recall ever getting into politics of their respected nations and its influence on tech. Why introduce politics into the fold filtered through a partisan view (opinion) of their respected nations.

More reason to concentrate on Tech and Facts.
Posted on Reply
#170
R-T-B
Xzibit said:
A good portion of americans ? Have you read the replies here not all of them are from Americans. Not even the author of the article according to TPU Ravenlord isnt in the USA hes in Portugal. TPU has always had members from around the world and I don't recall ever getting into politics of their respected nations and its influence on tech. Why introduce politics into the fold filtered through a partisan view (opinion) of their respected nations.

More reason to concentrate on Tech and Facts.
I was speaking to the polarizing politics gripping our nation right now and how a lot of us (myself included) fall victim to it. It is NOT a reference to the thread as a whole, or the thread at all actaully beyond my part in it. I'm well aware of the international representation here. I don't need a reminder. That doesn't change the facf we should try to do better: politics are not a blank check for poor behavior.
Posted on Reply
#171
dalekdukesboy
TheMailMan78 said:
Why is this thread still going? It was a crap thread to begin with and it hasn't gotten any better. If this were anywhere else on the forums the mods would have lock this crap down already. Reminds me of my drunken "Ebola and you" thread a few years back where I pondered ending the out break with a thermo-nuclear weapon.

Mods lock this thing up already. Please! Remember this one?!

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/ebola-and-you.205451/

If this is left open I want my discussion of nuking west Africa back open. Its about as a legitimate as this crap.
Hey hey easy now. Maybe the thread opened with crap but I rather like my rebuttals and well thought out nuking of individuals so much as I agree with much of what you say :slap: ....I haven't said anything nearly as stupid and vacuous as a drunk suggesting ending an outbreak with nukes. :nutkick:.

R-T-B said:
I don't know, I thought we were getting somewhere...
Don't agree with you much, but I'll support you here fully:). It may be way, way OT at times but I find intellectual discourse involving the minutia of Journalistic standards (actually not so off topic at all ) and the fine points of logic and its use for debating points in a highly technical and often complex technology thread to be rather invigorating...no?

Might not rise to the level of nuking Ebola but hey....

R-T-B said:
I was speaking to the polarizing politics gripping our nation right now and how a lot of us (myself included) fall victim to it. It is NOT a reference to the thread as a whole, or the thread at all actaully beyond my part in it. I'm well aware of the international representation here. I don't need a reminder. That doesn't change the facf we should try to do better: politics are not a blank check for poor behavior.
I will say " I don't need a reminder" is fairly rich coming from one who reminded all of us of what you know versus what we don't.

FordGT90Concept said:
I'm looking back at the original article and, I don't understand why an editorial is even necessary. I mean, the facts pretty much speak for themselves; no commentary is necessary.

And scene. This is where the facts end and the opinion picks up. I think this should have been published (minus the striked through text) as non-editorial. The rest should have been published separately as an editorial (assuming TPU should get in that business and I would say no). Even though it happened in the oval office, it is still pretty big tech news (Intel finishing a 7nm fab in Arizona).


That is next on Trump's agenda:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/latest-trump-news-today-february-16-2017/

The guy has seriously been in office just a month. Congress moves at Congress' pace. Trump is also not a legislature so authoring big


Remember Soyndra? The problem with subsidies is they require good government management and oversight. The government isn't good at managing anything except Congress' own compensation rates (not good for taxpayers, mind you). Look at the stock markets around the world. That is investment personified: private investment. Tesla, Google, Apple have done great because investors are confident their products will do well. There's also angel funds and the like where if you have a good idea, a private investor may bet on you succeeding. Because of the bipartisan JOBS Act, unaccredited investors can now invest as well and startups like Fig are leading the charge.

TL;DR: The role of government is safety nets for its citizens, not corporate welfare (a populist note Trump and Sanders were playing).

That said, there are projects government needs to invest in because the risks are too great for private research. Examples include the Manhattan Project and Apollo program. We could really use a massive government R&D investment into fusion energy.
Agree with most of this...this article wouldn't have even gotten my or many peoples' notice if it didn't 1. mention prominently Trump by name, and 2. having the editorialized text GT90 crossed out which made it blatantly obvious it was a rub on Trump, while at the same time trying to prop up Obama when he nor Trump needed to be mentioned prominently in this article at all to get point across....unless, the OP simply wanted to become a political hack and pick sides and swipe at the current president and unsuccessfully (big league unsuccessfully) disguise it as an "editorial". Particularly since I will reiterate for 8 years TPU never mentioned Obama whatsoever even when this initial story started.
Posted on Reply
#172
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
I was about to agree until I did some searching and came across this...
President Obama Visits Intel: CEO Paul Otellini Announces New U.S. Investment and Jobs

This actually isn't the first time POTUS and Intel had a little pow-wow yet, I don't think TPU covered that. So this is something TPU is going to start covering in the future or was it just an excuse to get political? If the former, that's grand (just keep the editorial stuff out); if the latter, please don't. And to be fair, similar events likely unfold when Intel/AMD/TSMC/Samsung open fabs in other countries. I would like to hear about those too. Fabs are the cornerstones of technology and, to be honest, we don't hear enough about them.
Posted on Reply
#173
R-T-B
dalekdukesboy said:
I will say " I don't need a reminder" is fairly rich coming from one who reminded all of us of what you know versus what we don't.
I'm aware of the irony, I made a mistake. I still don't need a reminder of the international nature of my present employer. :)
Posted on Reply
#174
dalekdukesboy
FordGT90Concept said:
I was about to agree until I did some searching and came across this...
President Obama Visits Intel: CEO Paul Otellini Announces New U.S. Investment and Jobs

This actually isn't the first time POTUS and Intel had a little pow-wow yet, I don't think TPU covered that. So this is something TPU is going to start covering in the future or was it just an excuse to get political? If the former, that's grand (just keep the editorial stuff out); if the latter, please don't.
No offense I'm glad you researched this, but no shit. Without even researching I knew over 8 years of Obama obviously he interacted with the tech world (beyond his Secretary of State's Hillary's emails that is) and as I and rtwjunkie even admitted when he went back to look TPU was apolitical all through Obama and now before first weeks of Trump even pass we have multiple political posts/polls so yeah pretty obvious as GT90 I think rightfully guessing this is an excuse to be political hacks...and I agree with him if this is it and not just a change in format just please don't.

R-T-B said:
I'm aware of the irony, I made a mistake. I still don't need a reminder of the international nature of my present employer. :)
Fair enough and thanks for honesty I'm brutally honest. Also speaking of I didn't remember to figure in the angle that TPU now is your employer hence it was an insult to be told by poster about that they are international etc, so I get your reaction now more fully I missed that entirely. However I don't think he meant it that way or to insult you...maybe it was but for once I'm giving someone benefit of the doubt:).
Posted on Reply
#175
Xzibit
R-T-B said:
I was speaking to the polarizing politics gripping our nation right now and how a lot of us (myself included) fall victim to it. It is NOT a reference to the thread as a whole, or the thread at all actaully beyond my part in it. I'm well aware of the international representation here. I don't need a reminder. That doesn't change the facf we should try to do better: politics are not a blank check for poor behavior.
USA has always been like this. Now with new media it gets amplified. TV News, Newspapers, E-media and social media spit out their partisan view on politics and more of the population are watching "Entertainment partisan News" then ever.

Yes, we could always do better and politics shouldn't be a excuse for bad behavior nor anything else for that matter ---> Blue vs Red (CPU) and Green vs Red (GPU) debates come to mind and those have a tendency to escalate just as much here even if they are entertaining at times.

FordGT90Concept said:
I was about to agree until I did some searching and came across this...
President Obama Visits Intel: CEO Paul Otellini Announces New U.S. Investment and Jobs

This actually isn't the first time POTUS and Intel had a little pow-wow yet, I don't think TPU covered that. So this is something TPU is going to start covering in the future or was it just an excuse to get political? If the former, that's grand (just keep the editorial stuff out); if the latter, please don't. And to be fair, similar events likely unfold when Intel/AMD/TSMC/Samsung open fabs in other countries. I would like to hear about those too. Fabs are the cornerstones of technology and, to be honest, we don't hear enough about them.
It was a well covered event in the media.



Intel
Artist’s rendering of the $5 billion new chip manufacturing facility and support buildings to be built at Intel’s site in Chandler said:
Intel has confirmed it is leaving vacant a massive new multibillion-dollar computer-chip factory in Chandler that President Barack Obama once touted as a symbol of the future of U.S. manufacturing.
No employees are working in the facility, known as Fab 42, which was completed late last year and was to bring 1,000 jobs and a $5.2 billion company investment.
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