Tuesday, April 17th 2018

AMD Responds to NVIDIA's GPP: AIB Partners to Announce New Radeon-Exclusive Brands

Apr 17th, 2018 14:35 Discuss (113 Comments)

In a blog post on its gaming website, AMD has decided to put on the white gloves for a distinctive strike against NVIDIA's GPP initiative, which has seen rivers of ink and public discussion already. In the blog post, entitled "Radeon RX Graphics: A Gamer's Choice", the company is clearly putting its footing on the same stance it always finds itself positioned to by NVIDIA: the freedom of choice, and freedom of standards side of the equation.

The blog post entirely reads as an anti environment-lock manifesto, extorting the virtues of PC gaming and the open-ended building and assembly of parts from various manufacturers that it's built upon. As a move against NVIDIA's decision to enforce their GPP initiative to lock-in AIB partners towards having an NVIDIA-exclusive brand, AMD has come out of the gates saying that the simple solution is for partners to announce new, AMD-exclusive brands as well. This is logical; was to be expected; and is really AMD's only move out of this forced hand it was dealt with.

AMD's opinion is written on the walls of its blog post, though: "The freedom to tell others in the industry that they won't be boxed in to choosing proprietary solutions that come bundled with "gamer taxes" just to enjoy great experiences they should rightfully have access to." We've already seen one such brand being announced today by ASUS with its AREZ, AMD-exclusive brand. Others will follow suit, and the only thing NVIDIA will likely be left with is users' opinion on whether exactly this was a required move from the company.

AMD's blog post follows in full:

Radeon RX Graphics: A Gamer's Choice
"Our proud pastime of PC gaming has been built on the idea of freedom. Freedom to choose. How to play the game. What to do and when to do it. And specifically, what to play it on. PC gaming has a long, proud tradition of choice. Whether you build and upgrade your own PCs, or order pre-built rigs after you've customized every detail online, you know that what you're playing on is of your own making, based on your freedom to choose the components that you want. Freedom of choice is a staple of PC gaming.

Over the coming weeks, you can expect to see our add-in board partners launch new brands that carry an AMD Radeon product. AMD is pledging to reignite this freedom of choice when gamers choose an AMD Radeon RX graphics card. These brands will share the same values of openness, innovation, and inclusivity that most gamers take to heart. The freedom to tell others in the industry that they won't be boxed in to choosing proprietary solutions that come bundled with "gamer taxes" just to enjoy great experiences they should rightfully have access to. The freedom to support a brand that actively works to advance the art and science of PC gaming while expanding its reach.

The key values that brands sporting AMD Radeon products will offer are:

A dedication to open innovation
AMD works tirelessly to advance PC gaming through close collaboration with hardware standards bodies, API and game developers, making our technologies available to all to help further the industry. Through our collaboration with JEDEC on memory standards like HBM and HBM2, Microsoft on DirectX and Khronos on Vulkan, and through the GPUOpen initiative where we provide access to a comprehensive collection of visual effects, productivity tools, and other content at no cost, we're enabling the industry to the benefit of gamers.

A commitment to true transparency through industry standards
Through industry standards like AMD FreeSync technology, we're providing the PC ecosystem with technologies that significantly enhance gamers' experiences, enabling partners to adopt them at no cost to consumers, rather than penalizing gamers with proprietary technology "taxes" and limiting their choice in displays.

Real partnerships with real consistency
We work closely with all our AIB partners, so that our customers are empowered with the best, high-performance, high quality gaming products and technologies available from AMD. No anti-gamer / anti-competitive strings attached.

Expanding the PC gaming ecosystem
We create open and free game development technologies that enable the next generation of immersive gaming experiences across PC and console ecosystems. These efforts have resulted in advancements such as AMD FreeSync adoption on TVs for Xbox One S or X, integration of forward looking "Vega" architecture features and technologies into Far Cry 5 without penalizing the competition, and inclusion of open sourced AMD innovations into the Vulkan API which game developers can adopt freely.

We pledge to put premium, high-performance graphics cards in the hands of as many gamers as possible and give our partners the support they need without anti-competitive conditions. Through the support of our add-in-board partners that carry forward the AMD Radeon RX brand, we're continuing to push the industry openly, transparently and without restrictions so that gamers have access to the best immersive technologies, APIs and experiences.

We believe that freedom of choice in PC gaming isn't a privilege. It's a right."

Source: AMD Gaming Blog

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113 Comments on AMD Responds to NVIDIA's GPP: AIB Partners to Announce New Radeon-Exclusive Brands

#76

Xzibit

evernessinceFirst off, let's state the facts. Nvidia didn't come out with PhysX, it bought Ageia and renamed it PhysX. Ageia's tech worked fine on AMD hardware before Nvidia bought them and then suddenly it didn't. Second, FreeSync have been reviewed by Tom's hardware and many other reputable tech reviewers and is identical to G-Sync. I don't know where you getting this "only provide a part of the technology and sell the lesser featured package at reduced price" but it's complete bullshit.

Just have to nitpick this one part. Ageia actually named it PhysX not Nvidia.

#77

MuhammedAbdo

evernessinceFirst off, let's state the facts. Nvidia didn't come out with PhysX, it bought Ageia and renamed it PhysX. Ageia's tech worked fine on AMD hardware before Nvidia bought them and then suddenly it didn't. Second, FreeSync have been reviewed by Tom's hardware and many other reputable tech reviewers and is identical to G-Sync. I don't know where you getting this "only provide a part of the technology and sell the lesser featured package at reduced price" but it's complete bullshit.

No they haven't, the vast majority of freesync displays are pieces of garbage, with limited ranges, high latency, poor panels, reduced refresh rates and no Low Framerate Compensation, that's how they are sold at a cheap price. Only a handful of them supports wide ranges and Low Framerate Compensation, but those are sold at a high price, those are the ones that provide a near identical GSync experience. Unaware customers think they buy the best variable refresh rate displays at low prices, when in fact they are getting the short end of the stick, those displays support VRR the wrong way.

#78

evernessince

XzibitJust have to nitpick this one part. Ageia actually named it PhysX not Nvidia.

Thanks!

#79

Xzibit

MuhammedAbdoNo they haven't, the vast majority of freesync displays are pieces of garbage, with limited ranges, high latency, poor panels, reduced refresh rates and no Low Framerate Compensation, that's how they are sold at a cheap price. Only a handful of them supports wide ranges and Low Framerate Compensation, but those are sold at a high price, those are the ones that provide a near identical GSync experience. Unaware customers think they buy the best variable refresh rate displays at low prices, when in fact they are getting the short end of the stick, those displays support VRR the wrong way.

If only a manufacturer sold the same panel for both

Acer XF270HU MSRP $599 - Sale $399

Acer XB271HU MSRP $799 - Sale $599

Hmm.. Still a $200 difference

Acer also sells same panels for both FreeSync and G-Sync in 4k 60hz and 34" 21:9 144hz. I'll let you guess on the price difference. Here is a hint, see above

#80

evernessince

MuhammedAbdoNo they haven't, the vast majority of freesync displays are pieces of garbage, with limited ranges, high latency, poor panels, reduced refresh rates and no Low Framerate Compensation, that's how they are sold at a cheap price. Only a handful of them supports wide ranges and Low Framerate Compensation, but those are sold at a high price, those are the ones that provide a near identical GSync experience. Unaware customers think they buy the best variable refresh rate displays at low prices, when in fact they are getting the short end of the stick, those displays support VRR the wrong way.

High latency? You're going to need to provide links to prove that.

LFC (Low Framerate compensation) isn't built into the panel silly, AMD drivers handle that. In fact FreeSync let's you choose which LFC tech you want to use. You can either use frame doubling (the exact same used with Nvidia G-Sync which is to simply display the same frame again), V-Sync, or nothing.

www.amd.com/Documents/freesync-lfc.pdf

"poor panels "

You do realize that many FreeSync monitors share the same panel as G-Sync monitors right. My Acer XF270hu is exactly the same as it's G-Sync counter part but with no G-Sync module. You are making hyperbolic statements that are all too easy to prove wrong.

"but those are sold at a high price, those are the ones that provide a near identical GSync experience"

Oh really? Did you just assume this? I'm guessing yes, given your previus sentences appear to be void of even rudimentary research. My Acer XF270hu cost $200 less than it's identical G-Sync counter-part. It's not like this is a hidden secret, G-Sync monitors cost on average $200 more than an identical FreeSync monitor. That's not even considering that you can actually get FreeSync monitors under $200 bucks where as you can't find new G-Sync monitors anywhere near that.

Are there lower quality FreeSync panels? Yes but that is simply because FreeSync is so easy to implement that manufacturers can add it on with no cost to themselves. There are more than 10 times the number of FreeSync monitors as there are G-Sync. Is it really so bad if people on a budget get FreeSync as an added bonus? Complaining that there are some lower quality FreeSync monitors is like complaining why anyone but Bugatti bothers making cars. They are great, if you can afford it. If that's your position, you are incredibly entitled.

Regardless, having a range of cheaper FreeSync panels isn't a negative reflection on the technology itself and we should in fact be happy that customers have a wider range products to choose from. Not everyone only want to buy panels certified by Nvidia.

#81

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"

Xzibit

They need to retest that. AMD should turn vsync off in games and Enhanced Sync on in Radeon Settings.
www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-enhanced-sync-framrate-synchronization,35087.html

AMD’s new Enhanced Sync technology works with any display, whether it supports FreeSync or not. Enhanced Sync is a replacement for VSync (it's unclear if VSync remains as an option, but why would you use it?) and works hand-in-hand with FreeSync technology. Unlike VSync, Enhanced Sync doesn’t lock the frame rate maximum to the display’s refresh rate. Instead, it uncaps the frame rate to reduce latency in exchange for some mild tearing.

When your GPU can't output frames at the same pace as your monitors refresh rate, Enhanced Sync prioritizes decreased stutter over eliminating tearing. That is, where Vsync strives to remove tearing completely, Enhanced sync allows occasional tearing instead of allowing the GPU to repeat the previous frame and introduce a momentary stutter.

On topic (seriously, why does every AMD/NVIDIA thread devolve into fisticuffs?): it sounds to me like AMD is embracing the new brands NVIDIA forced AIBs to create. Well yeah, AMD is going to work with their AIB partners regardless of branding but AMD bent over and took it instead of fighting it. Not pleased with that. Legal action should be responded with legal action, not counter-marketing.

#82

Xzibit

FordGT90ConceptOn topic (seriously, why does every AMD/NVIDIA thread devolve into fisticuffs?): it sounds to me like AMD is embracing the new brands NVIDIA forced AIBs to create. Well yeah, AMD is going to work with their AIB partners regardless of branding but it sounds to me like AMD bent over an took it instead of fighting it. Not pleased with that. Legal action should be responded with legal action, not counter-marketing.

AMDs legal fund was spent on sponsoring Ferrari Formula 1 team this year

FTC took 1yr to investigate Intel when AMD filed in that case. If they are going that route it's going to take awhile.

FTCThe FTC settlement applies to Central Processing Units, Graphics Processing Units and chipsets and prohibits Intel from using threats, bundled prices, or other offers to exclude or hamper competition or otherwise unreasonably inhibit the sale of competitive CPUs or GPUs. The settlement also prohibits Intel from deceiving computer manufacturers about the performance of non-Intel CPUs or GPUs.

The FTC sued Intel in December 2009 alleging that the company used anticompetitive tactics to cut off rivals’ access to the marketplace and deprive consumers of choice and innovation in the microchips that comprise computers’ central processing unit, or CPU. These chips are critical components that often are referred to as the “brains” of a computer. The action also challenged Intel’s conduct in markets for graphics processing units and other chips.
The FTC alleged that Intel’s anticompetitive practices violated Section 5 of the FTC Act, which is broader than the antitrust laws and prohibits unfair methods of competition and deceptive acts and practices in commerce. Unlike an antitrust violation, a violation of Section 5 cannot be used to establish liability for plaintiffs to seek triple damages in private litigation against the same defendant.
Under the settlement, Intel will be prohibited from:
conditioning benefits to computer makers in exchange for their promise to buy chips from Intel exclusively or to refuse to buy chips from others; and
retaliating against computer makers if they do business with non-Intel suppliers by withholding benefits from them.

As for the marketing. Anyone else find it interesting that the BFG CEO & Nvidia GeForce GTX General Manager now working for AMD made the "A Gamer's Choice" statement. Nvidia still has his blog author page up. He would know how things are played from the opposing side.

They are playing the hand that's been dealt to them.

AMD has a couple of CPU releases in a few hours. That will keep them busy and stir up the usual fisticuffs players in those threads.

#83

evernessince

FordGT90ConceptThey need to retest that. AMD should turn vsync off in games and Enhanced Sync on in Radeon Settings.
www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-enhanced-sync-framrate-synchronization,35087.html

On topic (seriously, why does every AMD/NVIDIA thread devolve into fisticuffs?): it sounds to me like AMD is embracing the new brands NVIDIA forced AIBs to create. Well yeah, AMD is going to work with their AIB partners regardless of branding but AMD bent over and took it instead of fighting it. Not pleased with that. Legal action should be responded with legal action, not counter-marketing.

I don't think AMD currently has the evidence to take legal action. The people in the best place to gather evidence on the GPP would be the federal government, as they can subpena the AIBs and Nvidia. AMD can't do that. In this case AMD really can't do anything until after the government takes action. If it doesn't AMD might be SOL. It's not like AIBs are going to give AMD GPP documents or on the record statements, that would completely jerperdize their revenue. What do you think would happen to ASUS's Nvidia GPU allotment from Nvidia if they were testifying in court against Nvidia? There's an old saying in the legal world, you don't have to beat them, you just have to outlast them. Nvidia is easily capable of destroying ASUS's or GIGABYTE's revenue stream before the court case is even settled.

#84

bug

evernessinceI don't think AMD currently has the evidence to take legal action. The people in the best place to gather evidence on the GPP would be the federal government, as they can subpena the AIBs and Nvidia. AMD can't do that. In this case AMD really can't do anything until after the government takes action. If it doesn't AMD might be SOL. It's not like AIBs are going to give AMD GPP documents or on the record statements, that would completely jerperdize their revenue. What do you think would happen to ASUS's Nvidia GPU allotment from Nvidia if they were testifying in court against Nvidia? There's an old saying in the legal world, you don't have to beat them, you just have to outlast them. Nvidia is easily capable of destroying ASUS's or GIGABYTE's revenue stream before the court case is even settled.

Could it be that, despite forum laments, there is currently nothing to take to court yet? Because really, all that changed between now anf pre-GPP is stickers on boxes. Cards haven't been altered, inventory ratios didn't move.

#85

Xzibit

evernessinceI don't think AMD currently has the evidence to take legal action. The people in the best place to gather evidence on the GPP would be the federal government, as they can subpena the AIBs and Nvidia. AMD can't do that. In this case AMD really can't do anything until after the government takes action. If it doesn't AMD might be SOL. It's not like AIBs are going to give AMD GPP documents or on the record statements, that would completely jerperdize their revenue. What do you think would happen to ASUS's Nvidia GPU allotment from Nvidia if they were testifying in court against Nvidia? There's an old saying in the legal world, you don't have to beat them, you just have to outlast them. Nvidia is easily capable of destroying ASUS's or GIGABYTE's revenue stream before the court case is even settled.

XFX anyone ?...

Time wise its interestingly humorous if you look at it through Kyles opinion as to why this is happening. Intel & AMD team up with Kaby Lake-G.

Looking back at some of the quotes

Nvidia CEO Jen Hsun HuangThis is an action the industry needs and one that consumers deserve. ... The facts are clear. ... The more successful we became, the bigger threat we were to Intels monopoly. Instead of creating competitive GPU solutions and competing on the merits of their products, Intel has resorted to unlawful acts to stop us.

Remember this involved IBM, HP & Dell, Some who reportedly havent sign on to GPP. So when people dismiss it "it could never happen" they kind of forget it did and even back then you had quotes like this

The three technology companies that were supposed to have been the targets of Intel’s threats are all as large or larger than Intel. Each has armies of lawyers. It would certainly been common knowledge among senior management at IBM, HP, and Dell that Intel was using unfair tactics to keep their business. And, yet, these managers and their attorneys would have to have let this systematic behavior go on for years.

Take into account that FTC ruling and Larrabee discontinue time since this effected GPUs too.

Now that some of the FTC restrictions are up/expire. Intel partners with AMD and is ramping up their dGPU division with Raja and company. Nvidia doing a turn-about with GPP.

An interesting view point

#86

MuhammedAbdo

XzibitAcer XF270HU MSRP $599 - Sale $399

Acer XB271HU MSRP $799 - Sale $599

That's blatantly wrong, these are not the same panels whatsoever! The GSync panel has higher nits (350 nits), has higher refresh rate (can go to 165Hz), while the FreeSync monitor only has 300 nits, only goes to 144Hz, and has a limited range of 40-144Hz coverage for FreeSync. So Yeah you just proved my point.

evernessinceLFC (Low Framerate compensation) isn't built into the panel silly, AMD drivers handle that. In fact FreeSync let's you choose which LFC tech you want to use. You can either use frame doubling (the exact same used with Nvidia G-Sync which is to simply display the same frame again), V-Sync, or nothing.

WRONG! It needs specific monitors with specific hardware features to be enabled via software, otherwise you are out of luck:

There are a couple of things to keep in mind with AMD's LFC technology though. First, it is automatically enabled on supported monitors and there is no ability to turn the feature on or off manually. Not usually a big deal - but I do worry that we'll find edge cases where LFC will affect game play negatively, and having the ability to turn this new feature off when you want would help troubleshooting at the very least.

Also, AMD's LFC can only be enabled on monitors in which the maximum refresh rate is 2.5x (or more) higher than the minimum variable refresh rate. Do you have a monitor with a 40-144Hz FreeSync range? You're good. Do you have one of the first 48-75Hz displays? Sorry, you are out luck. AMD has a wide range of FreeSync monitors on the market today and they don't actively advertise that range, so you won't know for sure without reading other reviews (like ours) if your monitor will support Low Frame Rate Compensation or not - which could be a concern for buyers going forward. 4K FreeSync monitors which often have a ~32Hz to 60Hz range will not have the ability to support LFC, which is unfortunate as this is one key configuration where the feature is needed! (As another aside, this might explain why NVIDIA has been more selective in its panel selection for G-Sync monitors; even though they frame double in hardware they still need at least ~2x between the minimum and maximum refresh rates.)

www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/AMD-Radeon-Software-Crimson-Improves-FreeSync-and-Frame-Pacing-Support

#87

Xzibit

MuhammedAbdoThat's blatantly wrong, these are not the same panels whatsoever! The GSync panel has higher nits (350 nits), has higher refresh rate (can go to 165Hz), while the FreeSync monitor only has 300 nits, only goes to 144Hz, and has a limited range of 40-144Hz coverage for FreeSync. So Yeah you just proved my point.

Really? Thats what your clinging on to? The Acer XB270HU was discontinued and the Acer XB271HU replaced it new predator shell added 50nits (Holy smokes let me calibrate for that) and Overclocked it (yay, higher RTC. Oh, wait has that ever been a good thing)

AcerStandard Refresh Rate 144 Hz
Overclock Refresh Rate 165 Hz

#88

moproblems99

You can pretty sure that when nVidia, or any company really, implements a plan like this it is not in the consumers best interest. This is fully about putting more money in their pocket. Nothing more, nothing less. They probably aren't worried about the legality aspect because US courts take so long that the money and market share (if they could really gain more there) will far out weigh any punishment they get. Although, really, the only thing it doesn't affect anything for those here but for the average Joe or Jane which happens to be where most of the money is. Great move by them but sucks for us.

I do have to chuckle at these Master and Expert ratings. When known brand supporters have the opposite brand as an Expert, Master, or Champion, I don't think it works. Or when people have crypto expert tagged to them even though they don't have the slightest idea how crypto works.

#89

MuhammedAbdo

XzibitReally? Thats what your clinging on to? The Acer XB270HU was discontinued and the Acer XB271HU replaced it new predator shell added 50nits (Holy smokes let me calibrate for that) and Overclocked it (yay, higher RTC. Oh, wait has that ever been a good thing)

And increased in price, It still also lacks proper LFC and still has a limited sync range of 40-144Hz, while GSync works from 0 to 165Hz. That alone is worth a price premium on it's own.

#90

Xzibit

MuhammedAbdoAnd increased in price, It still also lacks LFC and still has a limited sync range of 40-144Hz, while GSync works from 0 to 165Hz. That alone is worth a price premium on it's own.

Increase in price: No - XB270HU MSRP $799
Lacks LFC: No - AMD has a list of monitors which support LFC. Acer XF270HU does. You also just quoted in post #90 but still say it doesn't. :confused:

MuhammedAbdoAMD's LFC can only be enabled on monitors in which the maximum refresh rate is 2.5x (or more) higher than the minimum variable refresh rate. Do you have a monitor with a 40-144Hz FreeSync range? You're good

Is it worth the price premium? If your having that much of a frame discrepancy any kind of VRR ain't gonna help you.

#91

MuhammedAbdo

XzibitLacks LFC: No - AMD has a list of monitors which support LFC. Acer XF270HU does. You also just quoted in post #90 but still say it doesn't.

I actually corrected my post before you replied. Yes it does support it, barely though. The quality is bad.

XzibitIs it worth the price premium? If your having that much of a frame discrepancy any kind of VRR ain't gonna help you.

Yes it is worth it. And no it helps.

#92

moproblems99

MuhammedAbdowhile GSync works from 0 to 165Hz

Pretty sure if you are in the 0 - 30 range, you have bigger problems.

#93

Xzibit

Forbes: AMD Wants To Hear From GPU Resellers And Partners Bullied By Nvidia

ForbesHere's what Herkelman -- who was a former GeForce marketing executive at Nvidia -- had to say on Twitter:

I wanted to personally thank all of our resellers who are attending our AMD sales event in London this week, it was a pleasure catching up with you and thank you for your support. Many of you told me how our competition tries to use funding and allocation to restrict or block your ability to market and sell Radeon based products in the manner you and your customers desire. I want to let you know that your voices have been heard and that I welcome any others who have encountered similar experiences to reach out to me

#94

TheinsanegamerN

lynx29enjoy your toothpaste and new motherboard each year, or if nothing else, being left in the dark on whether or not you will need a new motherboard next release. cause communication is so overrated between a company and its consumers...

Who upgrades every year? A LOT of people are still running sandy or ivy bridge, and i'd bet people on those older platforms will be the primary audience for things like the 9000 series. You upgrade for a better mobo with new features, not more CPU performance, and as a result, most dont end up caring about whether a new CPU will work on an old platform, because most upgrade for the new platform.

Like myself. I dont want a ryzen desktop for the 8 cores, my 3570k per core is faster then a 4 GHz 1700 in games, which is why I have a desktop. I want a ryzen rig for the NVMe and the extra PCIe 3 lanes.

It doesnt matter if you run intel or AMD, some people will upgrade every year, but most will hand onto the platform until it no longer works, or a new feature comes along. And the toothpaste thing takes a full 40 seconds to fix, its not the end of the world (and as a reminder, AMD now uses that toothpaste on their APUs *sad trombone*)

#95

Sasqui

I love AMD... there I said it. NVidia has great products but lousy principles.

The end.

#96

Countryside

xkm1948This ^^^.

Plus it always seems to be easier to rush in and defend the "little guy" or the "brave revolution RTG" against big bad green nVidia.

Quoting AdoredTV's latest video, around 18:00. AMD's fan base is some of the most toxic fan base in hardware forum.

Do you realize that all fan bases are living under an illusion.

Now what are you saying "Their GPU are not that great for gaming to begin with: hot, slow, power hungry. Fact is that the 470 and the 570 are ideal for 1080p.

My recommendation for you is " First get your facts straight then distort them at your leisure"

#97

kanecvr

xkm1948hot, slow, power hungry.

... my GTX 1080 does 83C and then throttles down. A lot. So it's not a cool card by any means. I replaced the blower style cooler with a NZXT Kraken water cooler, and temps on the GPU went down.. to 75C... that is A LOT for water cooling - worse yet, since the kraken only covers the GPU, the whole card is allmost uniformally heated to 70C, witch makes me worry. I installed vram heatsinks and a custom backplate, and temps went down to 64C on the card and 72 for the GPU - witch is still a lot for a "cool card". As for power usage, the card draws 180-220W when using the stock cooler. It seems nvidia advertised the power usage in non-boost scenaros, as at 1600mhz it does indeed use 180w - but at 1744MHz (it's boost clock at 83C) it goes up to 220w. At 1911MHz (boost clocks on water cooling) it goes up to a staggering 250-260w....

So it's not a cool card, and it has pretty high power consumption - but it is pretty fast, and a good product overall - but I was expecting better.

#98

bug

kanecvr... my GTX 1080 does 83C and then throttles down. A lot. So it's not a cool card by any means. I replaced the blower style cooler with a NZXT Kraken water cooler, and temps on the GPU went down.. to 75C... that is A LOT for water cooling - worse yet, since the kraken only covers the GPU, the whole card is allmost uniformally heated to 70C, witch makes me worry. I installed vram heatsinks and a custom backplate, and temps went down to 64C on the card and 72 for the GPU - witch is still a lot for a "cool card". As for power usage, the card draws 180-220W when using the stock cooler. It seems nvidia advertised the power usage in non-boost scenaros, as at 1600mhz it does indeed use 180w - but at 1744MHz (it's boost clock at 83C) it goes up to 220w. At 1911MHz (boost clocks on water cooling) it goes up to a staggering 250-260w....

So it's not a cool card, and it has pretty high power consumption - but it is pretty fast, and a good product overall - but I was expecting better.

Interestingly enough, what you achieved with water, others have done with air: www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_GTX_1080_Mini/33.html

#99

Sasqui

XzibitIf only a manufacturer sold the same panel for both

Acer XF270HU MSRP $599 - Sale $399

Acer XB271HU MSRP $799 - Sale $599

Hmm.. Still a $200 difference

Acer also sells same panels for both FreeSync and G-Sync in 4k 60hz and 34" 21:9 144hz. I'll let you guess on the price difference. Here is a hint, see above

The blind gaming test was eye opening, great find. Subjective and one game, which they point out quite well. Guess you'd need a double blind test with a good cross section of games for really objective data.

On a related subjective note, I've got a Vega 64 and FreeSync monitor... it's the best visual gaming experience I've ever encountered.

#100

sith'ari

kanecvr... my GTX 1080 does 83C and then throttles down. A lot. So it's not a cool card by any means. I replaced the blower style cooler with a NZXT Kraken water cooler, and temps on the GPU went down.. to 75C... that is A LOT for water cooling - worse yet, since the kraken only covers the GPU, the whole card is allmost uniformally heated to 70C, witch makes me worry. I installed vram heatsinks and a custom backplate, and temps went down to 64C on the card and 72 for the GPU - witch is still a lot for a "cool card". As for power usage, the card draws 180-220W when using the stock cooler. It seems nvidia advertised the power usage in non-boost scenaros, as at 1600mhz it does indeed use 180w - but at 1744MHz (it's boost clock at 83C) it goes up to 220w. At 1911MHz (boost clocks on water cooling) it goes up to a staggering 250-260w....

So it's not a cool card, and it has pretty high power consumption - but it is pretty fast, and a good product overall - but I was expecting better.

I have the Palit GTX1080 Gamerock ( www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Palit/GeForce_GTX_1080_GameRock/29.html ) at my brother's pc and never noticed any temperature problems.
As i can see from your system-specs, you have MSI's GTX1080 Aero, ( www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127944 ) which bears a reference-like blower design, so it will have a similar performance with the reference one .
If you look the charts i put ,you'll see that the GTX1080reference can indeed reach 83°C . It's never a good idea to prefer a reference cooling design when you can choose a much better one.

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