ValantarThat's a view with a very short historical horizon. Binary gender as we know it is to a large degree a 20th century (Western) phenomenon - quite a few cultures, including Western countries, have had non-binary gender structures before modernity. The 20th century (and the 19th, though to a lesser degree) was generally characterized by ever-increasing systematization and formalization of designations, which (thanks in large part to the lack of actual knowledge among a lot of the people making these definitions official, or their morality) has created a far more rigid and restrictive society than any seen before. "PC culture" is a necessary and obvious response to this, particularly later developments such as gender studies and understandings of social interaction such as actor network theory - these are schools of thought that seek to break down oversimplified and overly restrictive categorizations that don't match reality so that we can understand reality better. Period. They're not always right (at least not right off the bat), but they generally move us in a positive direction.

DivergeI'm not buying it. There's inequity between the same genders and titles of people. So much so that corporation don't want people to have discussions of salaries or raises among coworkers.

NkdThis! Big time, its pretty much stab in the back lol.

Here is my example:
Honestly, it doesn't have to be Gender pay equality, its pay equality in general. Workplace pay inequality is cancer. I will give you an example. I work for Blue and white Globe (you can guess the company), after working 6 years a lot of us realized how much less the existing employees are getting in the same title. Its really mind blowing. Someone who they recently hired into the same position as mine or even title below me can be making up to 15-20k more in salary than me. Wanna know something even better? I was actually making 25-30k less than the guy who just got hired in the same position as me. But they wanted to make us feel better and gave everyone a new base and for me, it was a 7k increase but still way below others. The pay gap is so bad within the company that is literally a tragedy. There isn't one person that's happy in my position. My buddy has been with the company for 10 years and he makes the same as me in salary. He just told me that someone new they hired is getting almost 20k higher in salary than us.

Our immediate managers are pretty honest and they tell us they are able to offer max money to a new hire regardless of experience but the leadership won't let them increase base for existing employees in the same position lol. So I am all for gender pay equality but there are a lot of men not getting equal pay either lol!

Let me add I am talking about men here who have busted their ass for the company!

hatThat sounds awful backwards. Shouldn't you make more than the new guy? :shadedshu:

BeertintedgogglesOr it's a case of giving actual/personal events instead of relying on other's experiences. Also known as first hand knowledge.

TheGuruStudWait, people besides SJWs believe the pay gap is real (in the US)?

danbert2000My fiancee had a coworker that was just hired onto her team that automatically got the same pay as a more experienced woman that had the same exact job for years. He was younger, had less experience, and was objectively worse at his job. He then got a raise and earns more than that woman. The woman got a smaller raise. My fiancee was also sort of his superior and got paid less even though she was tasking him with work. And when she asked for a raise larger than 2% after taking on many new responsibilities and earning a PMP certification, she got called pushy and was in the negotiation for four hours. Still didn't get a bigger raise. And then another man that was doing web development who she also manages on one of his projects got a raise to her salary level because his manager saw that she was earning more than him, even though he does not do the same work. That was literally the reason he gave. She was making that much so why not give him a raise too.

Sure, they are anecdotes, but you're kind of an idiot if you think there is no pay gap whatsoever. That or brainwashed. Which would you prefer I think of you?

TheGuruStudThere isn't any systemic pay gap. It's been proven. Women hardly negotiate and are satisfied at their jobs while making less money. They also pursue promotions far less frequently. What you're describing is a normal hiring process. I was hired making a lot more money than the older employees simply because the market demanded it. The only shady thing here is IF the raises are true with no outside factor other than gender. Likely, he knows the kid and is displaying favoritism (and the budget is controller so he's screwing her to give him raises). She can sue, but unless he's done this to others, then idk if you can prove anything. She needs to quit without notice.

If everyone could just pay them less, then corporations would just hire mostly women to save all that money lol.

TheGuruStudThere isn't any systemic pay gap. It's been proven. Women hardly negotiate and are satisfied at their jobs while making less money. They also pursue promotions far less frequently. What you're describing is a normal hiring process. I was hired making a lot more money than the older employees simply because the market demanded it. The only shady thing here is IF the raises are true with no outside factor other than gender. Likely, he knows the kid and is displaying favoritism (and the budget is controller so he's screwing her to give him raises). She can sue, but unless he's done this to others, then idk if you can prove anything. She needs to quit without notice.

If everyone could just pay them less, then corporations would just hire mostly women to save all that money lol.

danbert2000What if they also had bias while hiring? Then they would be preferring men even though they could pay women less. I had my boss tell me to pass on a woman, who he probably could have paid less because that is the way the world works even though you are certain otherwise, because he was hoping "someone better" would come along. We ended up hiring a worse man. Usually the person deciding pay is different than the person deciding on hiring, as well, at least in corporate America.

Your argument is full of logic holes. Do you even work with other people in an office environment? It's all over the place so I'm assuming you just like to accrue the benefits and ignore the cause.

What arrogance to say "it's been proven" too. It clearly hasn't been proven. And you can send me all the fringe YouTube videos you want, gender bias in hiring and pay is something I see constantly even though my company tries to lead the way in leveling that shit out.

phanbueyYou just said there is no systemic gap, but then gave reasons for a systemic gap and called it the 'normal hiring process'.

TheGuruStudYou think it only works against women? Are you insane? You know what they do where I work? They're all SJWs in upper management. If you're a foreigner, minority, woman, or gay, then you have priority when being hired. Combine any of those together and you're guaranteed to be hired. They brag about their "diversity" as if that makes a good employee. Get off your bullshit bandwagon. Yeah, you can't eradicate biases, but to say that women are paid less across the board (at 23% no less LOL) as SJWs believe is just bullshit.

And wrong, statistics are where I got my statements from. Here, I'll let a fellow asshole say it:

You are dense AF. I said nothing of the sort. New people often get paid more and WHO YOU KNOW counts more than ANYTHING.

danbert2000I'm sorry, that is complete bullshit. Most upper management votes Republican for their unsustainable tax cuts. No serious person uses the term SJW when they're talking about Fortune 50 upper management. You are off in your own land now and I am telling you, here in my world, pay gaps are real, bias in hiring is real. You should come visit sometime.

BeertintedgogglesFunny, I didn't put any statistics in that comment at all but go ahead and start an opinionated argument such as yours with a false base of "facts / more complex view of the world". Plenty of studies have also shown that taking many sick days does the opposite of what you say and actually is detrimental to the company whether it be from reduced production or from resentment from fellow employees. See, I can make points without citing the actual studies as well. Lets up the ante a little now, throw in some affirmative action in the hiring bias and now you still want to act like there's this invisible force keeping down other genders and races? Sorry, but if that behavior really was rampant in this day and age of instant internet fame, it would be plastered everywhere and there would be an abundance of instances to cite instead of opinions.

BeertintedgogglesThere is no patriarchy keeping women down, they do that just fine themselves.

AssimilatorSo my post calling out people for being terrible gets deleted, but the misogynistic, unsourced rubbish posted by the same people gets left up? (No, Jordan Peterson's drivel doesn't count as "evidence", nor do your rambling anecdotes about how the two women you know are terrible people. Perhaps they're terrible because you are.)

Shameful, absolutely shameful. @W1zzard is this really the type of forum you want to operate?

NkdPay gap is real. ... And they feel bad how I have been working in the same position for 4 years is making less.